Hermantown vs Duluth East

nota612er · Post by **nota612er** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:57 pm

HawkeyPower wrote:
blacklung wrote:
blacklung wrote: No not true at all. When the current juniors were 2nd year PWA, Herm beat East in regions at Cloquet to advance to the Sunday Final game.

The next 2 years at Bantam, East, with the addition of Moore and Valesano to the team was too much for the Hawks 2nd and 3rd line to handle. 1st line and top D always skated with east.
3-1-2008 Regionals:
PWA East vs Hermantown
Herm4
East 1
They also beat East 1-0 at the end of January as well that same year.

Can't believe I am trying to defend getting our butt's kicked, but to be more clear...when the combination of Htown seniors playing as 2nd year pee wee/bantam and the juniors were 1st year pee wee/ bantam they never beat East's same combination.

Dogs24 · Post by **Dogs24** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:08 pm

Why doesn't hermantown step up to AA?

cooperalls4ever · Post by **cooperalls4ever** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:43 pm

Dogs24 wrote:Why doesn't hermantown step up to AA?

No, the real question would be why do we have (or still have) a two Class system?

You could use the opt up question on many teams over the years, some of which don't have much for other sports and some have a distinct advantage of forming 'all-star' teams, namely private schools.

But why does a local AA school not schedule competitive local A schools, but rather travel 150 miles to play AA schools outside of their Section or those across the border who are neither in their Section or Conference and haven't been competitive with that said AA school in games for years?

...I'm sure the kids want to play their best competition (alumni, coaches, adults...well too much pride and arrogance there I guess to see their school possibly lose to the "inferior" Class A, but ok to beat the inferior AA by 6-10)

hermhockey2 · Post by **hermhockey2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:06 am

Just to keep things in perspective... Hermantown has 600 something students. Not only are they Class A but, a small class A school. And a public school at that.

hermhockey2 · Post by **hermhockey2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

1) Eden Prairie Senior High School- Eden Prairie, MN - Total Enrollment: 3267

2) Champlin Park Senior High School - Champlin, MN - Total Enrollment: 3218

3) Wayzata High School - Plymouth, MN - Total Enrollment: 3073

4) Blaine Senior High School - Blaine, MN - Total Enrollment: 2880

5) Coon Rapids High School - Coon Rapids, MN - Total Enrollment: 2863

6) Minnetonka High School - Minnetonka, MN - Total Enrollment: 2600

7) Anoka High School - Anoka, MN - Total Enrollment: 2544

Burnsville High School - Burnsville, MN - Total Enrollment: 2429

9) Apple Valley High School - Apple Valley, MN - Total Enrollment: 2356

10) Robbinsdale Armstrong Senior High School - Plymouth, MN - Total Enrollment: 2341

11) Eagan High School - Eagan, MN - Total Enrollment: 2341

12) Eastview High School - Apple Valley, MN - Total Enrollment: 2329

13) Stillwater Senior High School - Stillwater, MN - Total Enrollment: 2248

14) Brainerd Senior High School - Brainerd, MN - Total Enrollment: 2232

15) Centennial Senior - Circle Pines, MN - Total Enrollment: 2216

16) Roseville Area Senior High School - Roseville, MN - Total Enrollment: 2210

17) Harding Senior High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 2138

18) North Senior High School - North Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 2133

19) Hopkins Senior High School - Minnetonka, MN - Total Enrollment: 2087

20) Central Senior High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 2068

21) Rosemount Senior High School - Rosemount, MN - Total Enrollment: 2061

22) Lakeville North High School - Lakeville, MN - Total Enrollment: 2012

23) Robbinsdale Cooper Senior High School - New Hope, MN - Total Enrollment: 2007

24) Mounds View High School - Arden Hills, MN - Total Enrollment: 1931

25) St. Francis High School - Saint Francis, MN - Total Enrollment: 1919

26) Arlington Senior High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1916

27) South Senior High School - Minneapolis, MN - Total Enrollment: 1901

28) Chaska High School - Chaska, MN - Total Enrollment: 1880

29) Maple Grove Senior High School - Maple Grove, MN - Total Enrollment: 1847

30) Woodbury Senior High School - Woodbury, MN - Total Enrollment: 1847

31) Century Senior High School - Rochester, MN - Total Enrollment: 1835

32) Forest Lake High School - Forest Lake, MN - Total Enrollment: 1835

33) Hastings High School - Hastings, MN - Total Enrollment: 1792

34) Kennedy Senior High School - Bloomington, MN - Total Enrollment: 1778

35) Tartan Senior High School - Oakdale, MN - Total Enrollment: 1777

36) Mayo Senior High School - Rochester, MN - Total Enrollment: 1775

37) Prior Lake High School - Savage, MN - Total Enrollment: 1774

38) Jefferson Senior High School - Bloomington, MN - Total Enrollment: 1746

39) Elk River High School - Elk River, MN - Total Enrollment: 1715

40) Park Senior High School - Cottage Grove, MN - Total Enrollment: 1714

41) Buffalo Senior High School - Buffalo, MN - Total Enrollment: 1707

42) Edina High School - Edina, MN - Total Enrollment: 1703

43) Osseo High School - Osseo, MN - Total Enrollment: 1694

44) Andover Senior High School - Andover, MN - Total Enrollment: 1676

45) Moorhead High School - Moorhead, MN - Total Enrollment: 1650

46) Owatonna High School - Owatonna, MN - Total Enrollment: 1643

47) Johnson Senior High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1639

48) Southwest Senior High School - Minneapolis, MN - Total Enrollment: 1620

49) Technical Senior High School - Saint Cloud, MN - Total Enrollment: 1603

50) Park Center High School - Brooklyn Park, MN - Total Enrollment: 1602

51) John Marshall Senior High School - Rochester, MN - Total Enrollment: 1596

52) Henry Sibley High School - West Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1586

53) Cambridge-isanti High School - Cambridge, MN - Total Enrollment: 1577

54) Irondale High School - New Brighton, MN - Total Enrollment: 1571

55) South St. Paul Secondary - South Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1510

56) Bemidji Senior High School - Bemidji, MN - Total Enrollment: 1478

57) Highland Park Senior High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1431

58) Richfield Senior High School - Richfield, MN - Total Enrollment: 1426

59) Como Park High School - Saint Paul, MN - Total Enrollment: 1418

60) Winona Senior High School - Winona, MN - Total Enrollment: 1411

61) Willmar Senior High School - Willmar, MN - Total Enrollment: 1344

62) St. Louis Park Senior High School - Saint Louis Park, MN - Total Enrollment: 1336

63) Apollo Senior High School - Saint Cloud, MN - Total Enrollment: 1335

64) White Bear South Campus Senior - White Bear Lake, MN - Total Enrollment: 1333

65) Roosevelt Seniior High School - Minneapolis, MN - Total Enrollment: 1314

66) Spring Lake Park Senior High School - Spring Lake Park, MN - Total Enrollment: 1308

67) East Senior High School - Duluth, MN - Total Enrollment: 1306
.......
Hermantown High School- Total Enrollement: 655

Mite-dad · Post by **Mite-dad** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:14 am

Are most kids on the hockey team from Hermantown or do some kids from Duluth open enroll there. I'm sure their youth program is top notch.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:22 pm

Mite-dad wrote:Are most kids on the hockey team from Hermantown or do some kids from Duluth open enroll there. I'm sure their youth program is top notch.

I don't know about this year for sure, but I know in the 2000s Hermantown High School did not accept OEs. No room.
You want to go there, you live there.

DuluthMMA · Post by **DuluthMMA** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:46 pm

judging by the enrollment list hermhockey posted EP is double the enrollment of east.. So If we were to build a school that large, we could have Htown, Denfeld, Hermantown, East and Marshall on the same squad.. Yea its a " what if" But still something more positive to think about than the constant battle in the northland

I just would like to say Duluth ( and surrounding ) produces a heck of alot of good players @ 1/2 the population on Minneapolis alone

DuluthMMA · Post by **DuluthMMA** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:47 pm

ps.. We miss Jojo

blacklung · Post by **blacklung** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:56 pm

The current group of Juniors on the team had wopping 12-14 players tryout for varsity last year. Most made at least JV, 4 were solid varsity. This year 9 are still on either the V/JV team. Curious how many kids EP and the other huge schools had to pick from to make their Varsity team this year. Also, herm has only 1 sheet of inside ice.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:03 pm

blacklung wrote:The current group of Juniors on the team had wopping 12-14 players tryout for varsity last year. Most made at least JV, 4 were solid varsity. This year 9 are still on either the V/JV team. Curious how many kids EP and the other huge schools had to pick from to make their Varsity team this year. Also, herm has only 1 sheet of inside ice.

What does this have to do with anything? Man up...

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:04 pm

You got to remember that Hockey isn't the only competitive sport at EP like it is at most of the Top schools that are on the Top 25 for Hockey.

EP has a ton of kids and a ton of Athletes, but as many know, Football is huge, Basketball, Baseball, Wrestling, Golf, crap - you name it, the Chess team are State Champs! Hell, The Girls Pom Squad are 3 times national champions.

If EP had most or all the best "Athletes" concentrating on Hockey, like DE, Hermantown, Grand Rapids and whoever else since peewees...they would probably win State 10 years in a row. Same could be said about the other bigger enrollment schools like: Wayzata, Tonka, Champlin Park...any of the Top 10 biggest schools.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:13 pm

Lots of posts for a game that is not going to happen.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Are some of those schools 9 thru 12th grade??

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:19 pm

Hockey, in a general statement, is not about the size (population) of the high school.
As a matter of competitiveness it is about the quality, quantity and availability of youth hockey programs.

Hill has, for decades, a quality high school program.
Roseau, ditto.
Etcetera, etcetera....

gitter · Post by **gitter** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:31 pm

elliott70 wrote:Hockey, in a general statement, is not about the size (population) of the high school.
As a matter of competitiveness it is about the quality, quantity and availability of youth hockey programs.

Hill has, for decades, a quality high school program.
Roseau, ditto.
Etcetera, etcetera....

I had to chuckle at the person who posted the enrollments as to why Hermantown was in Class A.

Cloquet - enrollment 614
Roseau - enrollment 374

Both public schools....apparently they didn't get the memo to join Class A in 1994.

blacklung · Post by **blacklung** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:42 pm

elliott70 wrote:Hockey, in a general statement, is not about the size (population) of the high school.
As a matter of competitiveness it is about the quality, quantity and availability of youth hockey programs.

Hill has, for decades, a quality high school program.
Roseau, ditto.
Etcetera, etcetera....

Generally agree.
In the North, the quality is developed in part by all of the outside rinks and kids skating much more than just their scheduled practices. The cold is good for something. Not sure how much outside ice is used down south.

hermhockey2 · Post by **hermhockey2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:44 pm

You mean Cloquet, Esko, Carlton, Wrenshall?...All high schools wrapped into one

Looks easy from here · Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Combined enrollment Carlton Cloquet Esko 1114

blacklung · Post by **blacklung** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:49 pm

gitter wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Hockey, in a general statement, is not about the size (population) of the high school.
As a matter of competitiveness it is about the quality, quantity and availability of youth hockey programs.

Hill has, for decades, a quality high school program.
Roseau, ditto.
Etcetera, etcetera....
I had to chuckle at the person who posted the enrollments as to why Hermantown was in Class A.

Cloquet - enrollment 614
Roseau - enrollment 374

Both public schools....apparently they didn't get the memo to join Class A in 1994.

Cloquet is CEC is it not?
Cloquet 614
Esko 368
Carlton 132

TOTAL: 1114

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:04 pm

gitter wrote:
I had to chuckle at the person who posted the enrollments as to why Hermantown was in Class A.

Cloquet - enrollment 614
Roseau - enrollment 374

Both public schools....apparently they didn't get the memo to join Class A in 1994.

Neither did Roseau who played in Class A for the first 4 years of the split

By the looks of it after making it to section finals 3 years in a row and having the best team state in their section, their move up was to make it to state. The best two section 8 teams were in section 8A.

RangeHockeyFan1817 · Post by **RangeHockeyFan1817** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:07 pm

The point of the two class system, is NOT to get all of the good teams to move up to double A, it is ideally to have two quality tournaments. The only reason people want certain schools to move up to double A is usually because they're private, and many feel they didn't belong in single A in the first place. However, a good, small, legit single A school should not be told to move up, otherwise what you'll end up with is one great tournament and one tournament with no quality teams. (unfortunately many people already feel this way) That doesn't mean that some teams shouldn't opt up if that is what they want to do, especially programs that are hockey centered, Roseau, for example.

And to another point, no numbers don't mean everything in hockey, many small programs have done well, but lets be honest, the more talent you have to pick from the better your team will be. Like someone above said, if we were to make a team from Hermantown, Marshall, Denfeld, AND East enrollment, it still would be close to the elrollment that some of the bigger metro schools have. If you don't think picking from that talent pool would make a difference, you're crazy. That would be one heck of a team!

puckhead58 · Post by **puckhead58** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:16 pm

DuluthMMA wrote:judging by the enrollment list hermhockey posted EP is double the enrollment of east.. So If we were to build a school that large, we could have Htown, Denfeld, Hermantown, East and Marshall on the same squad.. Yea its a " what if" But still something more positive to think about than the constant battle in the northland

I just would like to say Duluth ( and surrounding ) produces a heck of alot of good players @ 1/2 the population on Minneapolis alone

AND, without the benefit of any off season specialty training facilities such as MN Made, FHIT, etc. Many, if not most, of these kids play other sports in the summer.

RangeHockeyFan1817 · Post by **RangeHockeyFan1817** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:18 pm

Quote: "If EP had most or all the best "Athletes" concentrating on Hockey, like DE, Hermantown, Grand Rapids and whoever else since peewees...they would probably win State 10 years in a row. Same could be said about the other bigger enrollment schools like: Wayzata, Tonka, Champlin Park...any of the Top 10 biggest schools."

I don't agree with this statement at all. You'll find in most smaller schools, the "best" athelets play multiple sports. And the schools that you mention have other sports teams that do well besides hockey. For example, Hermantown's baseball and football team made it to section finals their last seaon. Virginia (not really on topic but related) had a class (last years seniors) who went to state in hockey twice and section finals once, state in tennis 3 times, and section finals in football, with the same core group of kids on each team. The tennis team had 8 of the 12 players that were hockey players as well, and multiple in football. I would bet Hermantown and Rapids are similar in that respect, not sure about Duluth East. So no, not every player, in fact, very few, focus on hockey all year long. Maybe a hockey camp in the summer, and one or two that play elite league or something similar. I would bet far more students from those big schools you listed play hockey all year long.

Post by **karl(east)** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:50 pm

RangeHockeyFan1817 wrote:Quote: "If EP had most or all the best "Athletes" concentrating on Hockey, like DE, Hermantown, Grand Rapids and whoever else since peewees...they would probably win State 10 years in a row. Same could be said about the other bigger enrollment schools like: Wayzata, Tonka, Champlin Park...any of the Top 10 biggest schools."

I don't agree with this statement at all. You'll find in most smaller schools, the "best" athelets play multiple sports. And the schools that you mention have other sports teams that do well besides hockey. For example, Hermantown's baseball and football team made it to section finals their last seaon. Virginia (not really on topic but related) had a class (last years seniors) who went to state in hockey twice and section finals once, state in tennis 3 times, and section finals in football, with the same core group of kids on each team. The tennis team had 8 of the 12 players that were hockey players as well, and multiple in football. I would bet Hermantown and Rapids are similar in that respect, not sure about Duluth East. So no, not every player, in fact, very few, focus on hockey all year long. Maybe a hockey camp in the summer, and one or two that play elite league or something similar. I would bet far more students from those big schools you listed play hockey all year long.

While most (though certainly not all) East hockey players do seem to concentrate on hockey, it's not as if hockey has a monopoly on all the best athletes. East has a pretty strong basketball program, and its ski teams are always among the state's best. For the most part, East operates like a smaller suburban school; they just happen to have a very strong hockey program.