Ridiculous Statement (made by Edina Dad)

BenDangle · Post by **BenDangle** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:51 pm

Whispers from the rink last night. While discussing next year's Edina Peewee A team. An Edina dad was asked if they will have 2 even A teams at Squirts and Peewees like Wayzata has done this year.

The guy said, "are you kidding (Edina's squirt coach) has lead Edina to an 80-0 record at Squirts the last two years, coaches 'these' kids all summer, why wouldn't they let him coach the Peewees and 1 team next year, they'd be stupid not to." This spoken in a win at all costs tone of voice.

This guy is a big mouth and is not representative of the silent majority in Edina (this is not an Edina bash). It is more of a statement about the state of affairs in how a vocal minority in Edina look at this topic.

My opinion is to get as many kids they can exposed to A play, especially in D6, as long as they are competitive. Sacrifice state banners at the Youth Level for banners at the HS level. I'm sure that this is not new ground on this board, but I'm new here.

I don't know many Wayzata folk, but I wonder how they feel about their 2 teams experiment and if they would recommend it to their Classic Lake brothers?

Towelie · Post by **Towelie** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:08 pm

Post number 1 million on Edina and their high all mighty parents....Congrats!!

In regards to Wayzata and their two teams....sure they would want Edina to split teams...gives everyone else an even better chance like it's currently doing for everyone that plays Wayzata. If they didn't split up their A's they would probably be a top team in state..now they are barely crackign top 10.

If they do anything, there should be an A1 and A2 that isn't split evenly.

_d6puck_ · Post by **_d6puck_** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:15 pm

I'm definitely agreeing with your statements. We should all want kids to have an opportunity to challenge themselves at a higher level of play. Although, some teams in recent years have tried this and the outcome was horrible. The lower A team did miserable and hardly improved. Now down the road, those players are not the better Bantams. -- It's a good idea, really. But at the end of the day, the A teams are just for the kids with most skill or who knows the coach.

GTTN · Post by **GTTN** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:16 pm

A little off topic but are you saying that the SQA coach will move up and coach the PWA? Hasn't the current coach been there for a long time? I could be misunderstanding your quote...

BenDangle · Post by **BenDangle** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:28 pm

exactly what I'm saying.

Current Squirt Coach (whom is a parent of a 2nd year squirt and coach of a prominent AAA team as well) to replace long time Peewee coach who has coached umpteen state champion teams, this was the exact sentiment

@towel - had a feeling this wasn't new ground on the site.

raised the topic more out of discussing the merits of what is more important, banners or player development? I believe the 4 A teams in Wayzata, not winning titles, scenario can go both ways. would love to hear what others think on that, and less on what the guy said or how he said it (i.e. there are jerks in every zip code).

nahc · Post by **nahc** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:46 pm

Support Edina's view of top team 100%. Why is it so important for as many kids as possible to be "exposed" to the A level of play? The point should be, can these kids fully "compete" at this level, not just skate up and down the ice, etc.. There is plenty of opportunity during the summer months for kids to play at whatever level they would like.......my view is that parents are the ones who believe their skater is capable of playing at an advanced level especially if their friends are playing "up" too. Just one train of thought/opinion. I know there is a totally differant view of this topic.......!!

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:50 pm

First - I don't see anyone replacing JJ unless he is stepping down or planning on coaching a different level. The guy is a tremendous coach and gets his kids to compete at the highest level possible at the end of the season. Whether or not you like to say it...his State Titles prove this and even though he has had some great talent go through so have many other associations...bottom line it comes down to getting the kids to peak and stay mentally focused when the time is needed and he does that.

In regards to Wayzata. I would say that from listening to the people/parents/coaches in the association its quite a mixed feeling.
A - More than 17 kids get to compete at the highest level in Pee Wee's
B - Now slightly lesser skilled players who normally make a B1 team now have a shot to prove if they can compete at this higher level and develop their playing ability at a faster pace than the level below
C - Association takes a hit that year as you no longer can keep up with the top associations skating their top 15 skaters - even with large associations with lots of talent/players its difficult to finish in the top 5/10 in state.
D - I doubt you will see this next year or in future years and if they do, there will be an A1 and an A2 and it will go from #1 down to #34 and not split evenly. [/list]

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 pm

I would bet the Edina A2 team would still beat most of us.

nofinish · Post by **nofinish** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:20 pm

Edina is all about bringing home the trophies. Same reason they go with too few B teams and too many C teams, bring home hardware. Maybe the parents like their squirt team to beat everyone by 8 goals, but are the kids really enjoying the "competitive" part of hockey?

I think Wayzata went out on limb in this experiment and they should stick with it. . The other big associations should be do it as well. The teams need to be balanced or it is doomed to fail. It will certianly pay off in development of more kids and they might even have more fun.

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:39 pm

B1 level hockey is outstanding. Not only are the players and their parents nicer often times the games are more closely contested. In the metro B1 is very good hockey. In most associations B coaching should be the best because the B level teams need to develop A level players for next year's team. Some associations used to split their B teams (EP comes to mind) heavily between first and second year. I think that's a good model to keep some of the kids together. But, that requires your child may play B his first year and that was too tough for some Edina parents to bear.

In Edina, and maybe Wayzata as they did add second A level teams, the problem is no parent wants the B level designation hung on their kid. And, they will go to great distance to avoid it. Maybe, including, 2 A teams. Now 20 more families get to tell their friends that their player is on an A team. One of those options to avoid B for a first year player, that probably should be B in their first year, is now gone with the end of the winter AAA option. Parents were willing to leave their association and play AAA in a players first year to solely avoid the B designation and then return for the second season at the A level. AAA to A but never B.

It extends to High School when families don't want JV for their young player so they move them to another situation, maybe private, so they can avoid the dreaded JV designation. Again, the old model was JV for sophomores, except for the best players, which was a good way to do it. Now varsity coaches are being forced, and I do mean forced, to keep sophomores on varsity at the expense of older players that have given 6-7 years to the game only to get wacked their senior year because of the selfish parents of younger players.

For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.

2112 · Post by **2112** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:41 pm

If your attempt is to make a better high school program by employing the two A team philosophy. Look at Edina high school team now, how many kids make the team from each age group. How many freshman, soph, juniors and seniors are on the team. You will probably find with most high schools that the top 5-7 kids at each age group have a chance on playing at the high school level. Now look at the squirt ,peewee and bantams, you will see the top players are generally the one playing on the high school team. Exceptions do apply but generally the B teams will not produce many high school hockey players.

BenDangle · Post by **BenDangle** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:02 pm

Great discussion.

Thanks for the feedback.

Some smart dudes came out of the woodwork on this one.

Survey · Post by **Survey** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:05 pm

2112 wrote:If your attempt is to make a better high school program by employing the two A team philosophy. Look at Edina high school team now, how many kids make the team from each age group. How many freshman, soph, juniors and seniors are on the team. You will probably find with most high schools that the top 5-7 kids at each age group have a chance on playing at the high school level. Now look at the squirt ,peewee and bantams, you will see the top players are generally the one playing on the high school team. Exceptions do apply but generally the B teams will not produce many high school hockey players.

Are you including JV in your "high school hockey players category" ?

If so I believe every 2nd year kid on the Edina B1 White team made the JV team and/or a Varsity team at a different school. Also, I know of several other B players who went on to play Varsity and or JV ...i would say your exception is but a mere opinion.

Your exception may be more precise if you stated B2 players instead of just stating "B"

2112 · Post by **2112** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Survey wrote:
2112 wrote:If your attempt is to make a better high school program by employing the two A team philosophy. Look at Edina high school team now, how many kids make the team from each age group. How many freshman, soph, juniors and seniors are on the team. You will probably find with most high schools that the top 5-7 kids at each age group have a chance on playing at the high school level. Now look at the squirt ,peewee and bantams, you will see the top players are generally the one playing on the high school team. Exceptions do apply but generally the B teams will not produce many high school hockey players.
Are you including JV in your "high school hockey players category" ?

If so I believe every 2nd year kid on the Edina B1 White team made the JV team and/or a Varsity team at a different school. Also, I know of several other B players who went on to play Varsity and or JV ...i would say your exception is but a mere opinion.

Your exception may be more precise if you stated B2 players instead of just stating "B"

Of course it is an opinion, is this somewhat of a surprise to you. I didn`t know that the B1 players tried out at different schools. sounds like you are expert at the B level ( congrats to you!)
Look at Edina high school hockey team, not the JV. How many of those players currently played at the B level in the Edina youth program.

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:34 pm

observer wrote: For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.

Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:02 pm

C-dad wrote:
observer wrote: For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.
Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.

He's gone to college....Graduated last year

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:05 pm

C-dad wrote:
observer wrote: For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.
Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.

I think observer was referring to this year's leading scorer who is a transfer from AHA and is indeed a 10th grader, as opposed to last year's leading scorer who is now at Notre Dame.

goaliewithfoggedglasses · Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:19 pm

C-dad wrote:
observer wrote: For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.
Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.

I think he's talking about Connor Hurley who transferred from AHA this year. Steven Fogarty graduated last year, was drafted at no. 72 by the NY Rangers, is committed to Notre Dame and currently plays in the BCHL for the Penticton Vees.

As for Edina coaching here's my prediction; after Dornbach and Bellows kids second year of Bantams Jungels takes over as the Bantam A coach. No basis in fact just throwing it out there.

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:12 pm

Pinky wrote:
C-dad wrote:
observer wrote: For all the amazing development we hear about Edina it's funny that the leading scorer on the varsity team is a transfer 10th grader.
Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.
He's gone to college....Graduated last year

I guess I shouldn't look at last year's stats then, should I?

Where did Hurley play youth hockey?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:16 pm

C-dad wrote:
Pinky wrote:
C-dad wrote: Fogerty is a senior and I don't believe he is a transfer. He leads the team with 40 pts, I think.
He's gone to college....Graduated last year
I guess I shouldn't look at last year's stats then, should I?

Where did Hurley play youth hockey?

I could be wrong, but I want to say he played in Hastings......

hockeygoof1 · Post by **hockeygoof1** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:50 pm

BenDangle wrote:Whispers from the rink last night. While discussing next year's Edina Peewee A team. An Edina dad was asked if they will have 2 even A teams at Squirts and Peewees like Wayzata has done this year.

The guy said, "are you kidding (Edina's squirt coach) has lead Edina to an 80-0 record at Squirts the last two years, coaches 'these' kids all summer, why wouldn't they let him coach the Peewees and 1 team next year, they'd be stupid not to." This spoken in a win at all costs tone of voice.

This guy is a big mouth and is not representative of the silent majority in Edina (this is not an Edina bash). It is more of a statement about the state of affairs in how a vocal minority in Edina look at this topic.

My opinion is to get as many kids they can exposed to A play, especially in D6, as long as they are competitive. Sacrifice state banners at the Youth Level for banners at the HS level. I'm sure that this is not new ground on this board, but I'm new here.

I don't know many Wayzata folk, but I wonder how they feel about their 2 teams experiment and if they would recommend it to their Classic Lake brothers?

Edina new (squirt) math. Our neighbors to the west have re-written current practices. In Edina 80 divided by 2 = 30. Only in Edina.

57special · Post by **57special** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:27 am

nofinish wrote:Edina is all about bringing home the trophies. Same reason they go with too few B teams and too many C teams, bring home hardware. Maybe the parents like their squirt team to beat everyone by 8 goals, but are the kids really enjoying the "competitive" part of hockey?

I think Wayzata went out on limb in this experiment and they should stick with it. . The other big associations should be do it as well. The teams need to be balanced or it is doomed to fail. It will certianly pay off in development of more kids and they might even have more fun.

Edina has 6 Squirt B teams this year and 5 Peewee B teams. They have more B teams proportionately than Tonka or EP, to name a few.

I have been surprised at how much of a trickle down effect there has been with the Wayzata program. They were always a very tough game at every level in previous years, now, not so much. I wonder if they will stick with it. The B teams really miss the high end kids that are now playing on the second A team.

I believe Edina will be going with 2 A teams next year at the Squirt level. There will definitely be a drop off in wins for the entire Squirt program, I think.

Chaz Barknarkles · Post by **Chaz Barknarkles** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:23 am

muckandgrind wrote:
C-dad wrote:
Pinky wrote: He's gone to college....Graduated last year
I guess I shouldn't look at last year's stats then, should I?

Where did Hurley play youth hockey?
I could be wrong, but I want to say he played in Hastings......

Hurley played his youth hockey in Eagan

mnhcp · Post by **mnhcp** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:33 am

Same can be said on the Girls side. Their 12UA team is crushing their opponents often having to hold back.

Edina easily could have had 2 top 10 12UA teams but instead chose to have 1 crushing 12UA team.

#1 Ranked in myhockeyrankings.com (#3 in LPH)

Their top 12UB is so outplaying the competition as well (#1 ranked). Also crushing their competition. In fact their #2 12UB is #4 ranked.

It's obvious that Edina's philosophy is completely different then say Wayzata. #1 at all cost is the Edina way.

The Huge Hook · Post by **The Huge Hook** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:50 am

mnhcp wrote: #1 Ranked in myhockeyrankings.com (#3 in LPH)

Are #'s 1 and 2 in the LPH rankings also subject to your scorn?? Or is it just the Edina thing????

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Ridiculous Statement (made by Edina Dad)

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