NEW RULES STATISTICS from 1/17/12**

[Bronc]

[quote="starmvp"]Do you think there will be more calls such as roughing and elbowing to avoid the 5 minute major on the referee's part?[/quo.


To get more penalties called for these types of hits I would of been more of a proponent of a double minor.

My guess is with the new rules officials once the dust settle and no longer under such scrutiny the major calls will be called even less due to the severity of the penalty not because players are more cautious.

The majority of players are not out there playing dirty and don't need to be treated that way. The ones that were, the "Intent To Injure" penalty was already there for a game misconduct.

[PuckU126]

Do you think there will be more calls such as roughing and elbowing to avoid the 5 minute major on the referee's part?

Yes

[starmvp]

Do you think there will be more calls such as roughing and elbowing to avoid the 5 minute major on the referee's part?

Yes

Right away probably not, but in the future yes is what I was thinking

[PuckU126]

Do you think there will be more calls such as roughing and elbowing to avoid the 5 minute major on the referee's part?

Yes

Right away probably not, but in the future yes is what I was thinking

Agreed.

Calls will become more frequent. Possibly as much as the NHL.

[starmvp]

Yes

Right away probably not, but in the future yes is what I was thinking

Agreed.

Calls will become more frequent. Possibly as much as the NHL.

Never

[PuckU126]

Calls will become more frequent. Possibly as much as the NHL.

Never

I'm serious. There is a possibility of that.

[starmvp]

Calls will become more frequent. Possibly as much as the NHL.

Never

I'm serious. There is a possibility of that.

We would need the removal of the facemask

[hipcheck]

If the ref will make the calls, the players/coaches will clean up the game!

[starmvp]

If the ref will make the calls, the players/coaches will clean up the game!

[Shinbone_News]

Intersting to call them game changers.

Assuming that the refs would have called the penalty under any circumstance:
1. Did the PP team score more than one goal on the major?
2. Did they score the goal after the 2 minutes would have expired?

I do not think the scoring is the indicator of whether this is a good ruling or not.

Not my point. I was responding to another poster who wondered whether tougher enforcement of the new rules had changed the outcome of any games on the 17th. I think you can say that it did and will continue to, esp. when you compare the stats from 30 December, and BTW that's absolutely a good thing. When your team loses as a direct result of an illegal check, that ought to change your behavior next game (whether you're a coach, a parent, or a player).

[elliott70]

Intersting to call them game changers.

Assuming that the refs would have called the penalty under any circumstance:
1. Did the PP team score more than one goal on the major?
2. Did they score the goal after the 2 minutes would have expired?

I do not think the scoring is the indicator of whether this is a good ruling or not.

Not my point. I was responding to another poster who wondered whether tougher enforcement of the new rules had changed the outcome of any games on the 17th. I think you can say that it did and will continue to, esp. when you compare the stats from 30 December, and BTW that's absolutely a good thing. When your team loses as a direct result of an illegal check, that ought to change your behavior next game (whether you're a coach, a parent, or a player).

I am not saying it was your point.
I am looking at whether or not the calling of a major was that big of a factor in a game.

Then I was saying the injury factor is the determinent for grading success of the new rule.

[TheClipper]

I hope officials DONT look to "soften" calls--calling them elbowing, roughing, etc. Doing so in the past has been a big part of the problem.

Come down hard, come down NOW-when sentiment is on the side of officials. Sit offending players for ten minutes, or throw them out. Do this often, do it too often, but do it now. If, and only if, the consequences are unilaterally severe will behavior change.

Everyone knows you cannot use your stick to club someone over the head. I gotta lot of years with HS hockey under my belt, and I never see this. But I fully understand that this, too, used to happen until the consequences for doing so were immediate and dramatic.

[starmvp]

I hope officials DONT look to "soften" calls--calling them elbowing, roughing, etc. Doing so in the past has been a big part of the problem.

Come down hard, come down NOW-when sentiment is on the side of officials. Sit offending players for ten minutes, or throw them out. Do this often, do it too often, but do it now. If, and only if, the consequences are unilaterally severe will behavior change.

Everyone knows you cannot use your stick to club someone over the head. I gotta lot of years with HS hockey under my belt, and I never see this. But I fully understand that this, too, used to happen until the consequences for doing so were immediate and dramatic.

It definitely has been a problem in the past and like you said, it's up to the refs here in the beginning

[dueling21]

I hope officials DONT look to "soften" calls--calling them elbowing, roughing, etc. Doing so in the past has been a big part of the problem.

Come down hard, come down NOW-when sentiment is on the side of officials. Sit offending players for ten minutes, or throw them out. Do this often, do it too often, but do it now. If, and only if, the consequences are unilaterally severe will behavior change.

Everyone knows you cannot use your stick to club someone over the head. I gotta lot of years with HS hockey under my belt, and I never see this. But I fully understand that this, too, used to happen until the consequences for doing so were immediate and dramatic.

+1

The only way to get it to change...

[deacon64]

Do you think there will be more calls such as roughing and elbowing to avoid the 5 minute major on the referee's part?

yes, definitely. saw on first call by refs last night. was a boarding but called cross check as appear light and not intentional. refs will adjust.

[PuckRanger]

And in the referees defense, being a ref is a part time job for them and with the rule changes happening over the weekend and a game on Tuesday, how could they have possibly have had an opportunity to learn about the new rules and ask questions? It would be very interesting to have a room full of referees review hockey film and each individually record what, if any, penalties they would assess---I would bet that you'd have many many different answers.

There really is nothing new to review. Checking from behind, boarding, and head contact are still the same infractions as before. The only thing that changed is the 2-minute minor is gone for the violation... You shouldn't need to watch video to implement a simple rule change like this. Its not complicated and it should take any coherent referee about a minute to comprehend the change.

[PuckRanger]

I hope (and I am sure everyone does, whether they agree withth echange or not) that this rule change does reduce (hope, eliminate) serious injuries.

But I had hoped that stop patches would be effective, also.
And they were for about a year.
The 2 & 10 for checking from behind helped, also. For about a year.

The problem is that players/ coaches/ refs/ fans - all of us; adapt.

Coaches will coach to the PK for a major. It will be come excepted that these will happen more frequently. Refs will call them OR find another call if they are so inclined.



From my perspective is that the way to reuce potentioal from injuries from violent hits is EDUCATION/TRAINING/PRACTICE.

Start at squirts with Dzone checking only.
Peewees bring it to include the neutral zone.
Start coachiing/training/practice early in devlopment.

Mandatory video, mandatory training of players/coaches on what a illegal violent check looks like, how to minimize the chance of giving and taking one.
with mid-year refresher.

All levels of hockey need to invest in this.




AND, train the fans NOT to yell/cheer "HIT 'EM".

Well said! I agree with this 100%. The only thing I might add is there needs to be an avenue to address some of the coaches at the youth level who are either incapable or unwilling to learn or teach this correctly.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Elliot you make far too much sense for the modern day. I think your response is the most sound logical way to approach corrections to the game. Sad to say nobody in the important decision making chain will listen to your sound reasoning. Thanks for taking time to address the issues regarding rule change.

[BadgerBob82]

I know we could play the "what if" game all day. But before the rule change I saw several players with the puck putting themself in vulnerable positions. (i.e. drawing penalties) I have seen 3-4 times when a player with the puck attempts to go around a defender. Just before the point of impact, player ducks. Some called head contact, others weren't. If a player ducks and his leads with his head about knee to waist high, and the collision does strike his head, I just don't see what the defending player could do? I have also seen players turn to the boards and when defender goes to pin player to the boards, the puck carriers almost throw themselves against the glass. I've seen this called cross-check and check from behind. Though the "pinning play" was done under control and not in a dangerous manner. In these instances, I believe players intentionally putting themself in a vulnerable position should be penalized. The call? similar to imbellishment?

Now before you go off. I think AWARENESS goes to both the hitter and hittee. The textbook blindside check from behind going head on toward the boards should have been called a 5 and Game years ago. Blame goes squarely on the Refs for the "new rules" because they couldn't force themself to make the right call. But players that deliberately expose themself to dangerous hits ON PURPOSE need educating and I guess under the mentality of the new rules, imposing a penalty for STUPIDITY will raise AWARENESS and reduce the potential for serious injury.

[rudy]

I would be interested in what people see in the coming weeks regarding players putting themselves in vulnerable positions. given the advantage a team may realize, it only makes sense that more puck carriers will turn their backs to their rivals along the boards -- not a safe move -- in hopes of either drawing penalties or gaining a game-situation advantage.

[Bandy]

Come down hard, come down NOW-when sentiment is on the side of officials. Sit offending players for ten minutes, or throw them out. Do this often, do it too often, but do it now. If, and only if, the consequences are unilaterally severe will behavior change...

Agree, and I'll add that for any change to be lasting, they need to keep calling the game tightly into the future. I also think MSHSL and youth hockey need to step up evaluation of referees in real games. Are they doing their jobs, enforcing the rules that are intended to minimize risk and cheating? Are they enforcing consistently throughout the game, regardless of game situation and how much time is on the clock? They're never going to see everything, but they should be expected to call infractions that they see.

[BBgunner]

Here is the thing whether they are game changing calls or not the reason these penalties occur late in games or periods is due to kids being tired. They stop making the extra strides necessary to get in front of a player or use thier body to make a hit instead or using all arms to complete a hit.
Fatigue not only effects the stamina of player in a physical sense but also mental. They will make poor decisions if tired or not think actions through trust me kids think about holding up on a hit from behind early in games you see them do it. The only times you see kids get big penalties early in games is when they are out of control with adrenaline.
Coaches, parents, and players need to think about stamina and decision making late in games to keep this from happening. This will eliminate the game changing penalty call we are hearing complaints about.

[TheClipper]

I utterly agree with those who place part of the blame on players who put themselves in bad position to take a hit. However, this too goes back to the need for earlier and better coaching.

If we're truly looking for an end to dangerous hits, let's do as soccer has done for many years and add suspensions for accumulated penalties. For instance, any total of two "CFB" (or related) penalties in the course of a season results in an additional game suspension.

All of us have to drop our ugly rationalizations that "Boys Will Be Boys", or "That's The Way Hockey is Played". Serious head and spine injuries have zero to do with HS hockey.

[OnFrozenPond]

I would be interested in what people see in the coming weeks regarding players putting themselves in vulnerable positions. given the advantage a team may realize, it only makes sense that more puck carriers will turn their backs to their rivals along the boards -- not a safe move -- in hopes of either drawing penalties or gaining a game-situation advantage.

I really don't think players are turning their backs to the play to draw a penalty as much as you might think. I think more than likely they are turning their backs to their rivals along the boards for a variety of other reasons...protect the puck, trying to escape/avoid contact, knee jerk reaction, etc. rather than draw a call.

It is a fast game. Puck carriers have to read and react just as quickly as those considering contact. A lot of times they don't make the right decision.

[BodyShots]

Here is the thing whether they are game changing calls or not the reason these penalties occur late in games or periods is due to kids being tired. They stop making the extra strides necessary to get in front of a player or use thier body to make a hit instead or using all arms to complete a hit.
Fatigue not only effects the stamina of player in a physical sense but also mental. They will make poor decisions if tired or not think actions through trust me kids think about holding up on a hit from behind early in games you see them do it. The only times you see kids get big penalties early in games is when they are out of control with adrenaline.
Coaches, parents, and players need to think about stamina and decision making late in games to keep this from happening. This will eliminate the game changing penalty call we are hearing complaints about.

Or the games outcome has already been decided, and the player is taking out his frustrations of losing another game.