MINNESOTA BLADES Two Decades Of Development

Rank12 · Post by **Rank12** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:17 pm

http://minnesotahockeyreport.com/2012/0 ... velopment/

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:20 pm

There is no doubt that the Blades have had some great teams and players over the years , but do they really get to claim that they developed kids who lived in Grand Rapids and Grand Forks who played in a few tournaments?

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:34 am

blindref wrote:There is no doubt that the Blades have had some great teams and players over the years , but do they really get to claim that they developed kids who lived in Grand Rapids and Grand Forks who played in a few tournaments?

Or how about the players out there that are and have been in the Blades Program that are not even playing A level Association Hockey. Now that's development

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:52 am

blindref wrote:There is no doubt that the Blades have had some great teams and players over the years , but do they really get to claim that they developed kids who lived in Grand Rapids and Grand Forks who played in a few tournaments?

OR one from Madison, WI (well truly Verona)... aka Phil Kessel. Yes he laced them up as a "hired gun" for a few tournament but that is all. He was "developed" in Madison, WI playing for his local Madison association team until he joined the AAA Madison Capitols where he played until he was a Midget Minor, then he went to the US NTDP and then honed his skills with the Gophers in colege before turning pro. At what point did the Blades do any developing for this guy? No disrespect to the Blades they put great teams on the ice at tourneys and I am sure they do a decent job for many of the local MN kids who actually practice AND play for them but why the need to stretch the truth, yea I get that it is all marketing but come on.....

2112 · Post by **2112** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:03 am

JSR wrote:
blindref wrote:There is no doubt that the Blades have had some great teams and players over the years , but do they really get to claim that they developed kids who lived in Grand Rapids and Grand Forks who played in a few tournaments?
OR one from Madison, WI (well truly Verona)... aka Phil Kessel. Yes he laced them up as a "hired gun" for a few tournament but that is all. He was "developed" in Madison, WI playing for his local Madison association team until he joined the AAA Madison Capitols where he played until he was a Midget Minor, then he went to the US NTDP and then honed his skills with the Gophers in colege before turning pro. At what point did the Blades do any developing for this guy? No disrespect to the Blades they put great teams on the ice at tourneys and I am sure they do a decent job for many of the local MN kids who actually practice AND play for them but why the need to stretch the truth, yea I get that it is all marketing but come on.....

This is like the third time you posted about the same subject of Phil Kessel, it is not a secret that the Blades put their name to anybody that puts on the jersey. They are even taking credit for Okposo, now thats funny i don`t care who you are.

no5hole · Post by **no5hole** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:27 am

I'm sure the do some development of players that are already good. I would have to say the title should be "two decades of recognizing great players and great retruiters." And there is nothing wrong with that.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:43 am

Showcase hockey could claim all kids on that list in last 14yrs sure most played in some kind of tourny or team as hired guns,add the machine to that too

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:39 pm

2112 wrote:
JSR wrote:
blindref wrote:There is no doubt that the Blades have had some great teams and players over the years , but do they really get to claim that they developed kids who lived in Grand Rapids and Grand Forks who played in a few tournaments?
OR one from Madison, WI (well truly Verona)... aka Phil Kessel. Yes he laced them up as a "hired gun" for a few tournament but that is all. He was "developed" in Madison, WI playing for his local Madison association team until he joined the AAA Madison Capitols where he played until he was a Midget Minor, then he went to the US NTDP and then honed his skills with the Gophers in colege before turning pro. At what point did the Blades do any developing for this guy? No disrespect to the Blades they put great teams on the ice at tourneys and I am sure they do a decent job for many of the local MN kids who actually practice AND play for them but why the need to stretch the truth, yea I get that it is all marketing but come on.....
This is like the third time you posted about the same subject of Phil Kessel, it is not a secret that the Blades put their name to anybody that puts on the jersey. They are even taking credit for Okposo, now thats funny i don`t care who you are.

Actually is was about Will Butcher (current USNTDP) last time. Though the story is virtually identical for both when regarding this subject, so I could see how that might be remembered similarly.

terrymoore1717 · Post by **terrymoore1717** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:02 pm

Whether a player is a Blades Alumni is sometimes a sticky question. I have taken heat in the past for not counting a kid as an alum, because some people like having "Blades" on their hockey resume. Now, when a player who had a short youth hockey stint on the Blades later commits D1, we will call the family and ask how they want to be treated. Some people choose to be included and some don't.

As for Phil Kessel, he practiced regularly and played many tournaments over three years with the Blades. Will Butcher, a 95 who you will all know about in a couple years, is also from Madison. He played in about 30 games over several years with the 95 Blades.

Any summer program that claims full credit for a player's development is wrong. We do not claim full credit. By the time the top players are 15, most of them have had a dozen different quality coaches on summer and winter teams. The Blades can help development, but the player is the one doing the work. For example, Blake Wheeler played five years for the Blades. While the Blades helped him develop, so did his coaches at Wayzata, Breck and elsewhere. Blake is the one who did the work.

2112 · Post by **2112** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:09 pm

JSR wrote:
2112 wrote:
JSR wrote: OR one from Madison, WI (well truly Verona)... aka Phil Kessel. Yes he laced them up as a "hired gun" for a few tournament but that is all. He was "developed" in Madison, WI playing for his local Madison association team until he joined the AAA Madison Capitols where he played until he was a Midget Minor, then he went to the US NTDP and then honed his skills with the Gophers in colege before turning pro. At what point did the Blades do any developing for this guy? No disrespect to the Blades they put great teams on the ice at tourneys and I am sure they do a decent job for many of the local MN kids who actually practice AND play for them
but why the need to stretch the truth, yea I get that it is all marketing but come on.....
JSR you havecommented on the Phil Kessel and the Blades thing before, maybe you should read some of your old posts. Just saying.

This is like the third time you posted about the same subject of Phil Kessel, it is not a secret that the Blades put their name to anybody that puts on the jersey. They are even taking credit for Okposo, now thats funny i don`t care who you are.
Actually is was about Will Butcher (current USNTDP) last time. Though the story is virtually identical for both when regarding this subject, so I could see how that might be remembered similarly.

hockeydad11 · Post by **hockeydad11** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:22 pm

This is from the Caribou Web site:

2011 Caribou Coffee AAA Hockey Classic RESULTS

Congratulations to the following teams that made it to finals of their respective levels:

Level Champions RunnerUp
96 Elite Daves Sport Shop Mn Legacy
97 Elite Mn Legacy Mn Icemen
98 Elite Mn Blades Mn Icmen
99 Elite Machine MN Blades
00 Elite Machine Mn Blades
01 Elite Machine Northern Wings
02 Elite Machine Mn Blades
03 Elite Minnesota Made Gold Team Manitoba

Looks like some other programs are do well developing players too
..

The Jackwagon · Post by **The Jackwagon** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:42 pm

If I recall the Blades claim Jamie McBain, and Michael Carman on there web site and I know they had a very short "stint" with the Blades because there dads were coaches for one summer with Irv Singer.

McBain, Carman and Singer all left the Blades at the end of that summer because of John Arkos giant ego. This was in 97, six years before Terry Moore started with Blades. Does Terry moore even own a pair of skates. We know he did not develope anyone.

Some how I dont think anyone called and asked their fathers if it was Ok to use their names.

Lance Pitlick has done a nice job with the 97. Lance's team might be the last good team.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:24 am

The Blades do not develop hockey players. They seek out and invite the best players. They cut players who aren't up to their standards. They wanted to cut Erik Johnson. If a player moves on and gets to a high enough level, they'll take credit for him. If not, they can't even remember the kid's name.

terrymoore1717 · Post by **terrymoore1717** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:50 am

A few things in response:

1. Yes, other organizations do develop players. The Blades do a very good job. We are not the only ones. We do have the longest track record and the strongest national reputation. As I said, the biggest contributor to development is the kid himself.

2. The 88 players mentioned were Blades for two or three years, untill 1999. In that year, Irv Singer and Bernie formed the Minnesota Spirit and left the Blades. The next year, Bernie left Irv and formed the '88s.

3. I do own skates. I am not fast, but but I do lack endurance.

4. Your comment about players we have to release is unfair. You should talk to some of them. If you want to tell me who you are, I can privately give you some names.

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 am

terrymoore1717 wrote:A few things in response:

1. Yes, other organizations do develop players. The Blades do a very good job. We are not the only ones. We do have the longest track record and the strongest national reputation. As I said, the biggest contributor to development is the kid himself.

2. The 88 players mentioned were Blades for two or three years, untill 1999. In that year, Irv Singer and Bernie formed the Minnesota Spirit and left the Blades. The next year, Bernie left Irv and formed the '88s.

3. I do own skates. I am not fast, but but I do lack endurance.

4. Your comment about players we have to release is unfair. You should talk to some of them. If you want to tell me who you are, I can privately give you some names.

Someone seems defensive this morning, relax Terry and have a piece of Cake

Pylon · Post by **Pylon** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:22 pm

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
terrymoore1717 wrote:A few things in response:

1. Yes, other organizations do develop players. The Blades do a very good job. We are not the only ones. We do have the longest track record and the strongest national reputation. As I said, the biggest contributor to development is the kid himself.

2. The 88 players mentioned were Blades for two or three years, untill 1999. In that year, Irv Singer and Bernie formed the Minnesota Spirit and left the Blades. The next year, Bernie left Irv and formed the '88s.

3. I do own skates. I am not fast, but but I do lack endurance.

4. Your comment about players we have to release is unfair. You should talk to some of them. If you want to tell me who you are, I can privately give you some names.
Someone seems defensive this morning, relax Terry and have a piece of Cake

I respect Terry for having the guts to come on here and post under his real name. Its unfortunate that people have to take shots. Good on you Terry, to bad others wont give their real names when spouting off.

I agree with all that Terry has said. Many teams and organizations can say they have contributed to a players success, but ultimately it is the player that deserves the most credit.

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:57 pm

Pylon wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
terrymoore1717 wrote:A few things in response:

1. Yes, other organizations do develop players. The Blades do a very good job. We are not the only ones. We do have the longest track record and the strongest national reputation. As I said, the biggest contributor to development is the kid himself.

2. The 88 players mentioned were Blades for two or three years, untill 1999. In that year, Irv Singer and Bernie formed the Minnesota Spirit and left the Blades. The next year, Bernie left Irv and formed the '88s.

3. I do own skates. I am not fast, but but I do lack endurance.

4. Your comment about players we have to release is unfair. You should talk to some of them. If you want to tell me who you are, I can privately give you some names.
Someone seems defensive this morning, relax Terry and have a piece of Cake
I respect Terry for having the guts to come on here and post under his real name. Its unfortunate that people have to take shots. Good on you Terry, to bad others wont give their real names when spouting off.

I agree with all that Terry has said. Many teams and organizations can say they have contributed to a players success, but ultimately it is the player that deserves the most credit.

Yes you are right, I apologize for hiding behind a moniker.

Thank you Mr.Pylon for bringing this to my attention.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:01 pm

terrymoore1717 wrote:Whether a player is a Blades Alumni is sometimes a sticky question. I have taken heat in the past for not counting a kid as an alum, because some people like having "Blades" on their hockey resume. Now, when a player who had a short youth hockey stint on the Blades later commits D1, we will call the family and ask how they want to be treated. Some people choose to be included and some don't.

As for Phil Kessel, he practiced regularly and played many tournaments over three years with the Blades. Will Butcher, a 95 who you will all know about in a couple years, is also from Madison. He played in about 30 games over several years with the 95 Blades.

Any summer program that claims full credit for a player's development is wrong. We do not claim full credit. By the time the top players are 15, most of them have had a dozen different quality coaches on summer and winter teams. The Blades can help development, but the player is the one doing the work. For example, Blake Wheeler played five years for the Blades. While the Blades helped him develop, so did his coaches at Wayzata, Breck and elsewhere. Blake is the one who did the work.

It was nothing personal against the Blades. The fact is that ALL of the AAA prgrams out there do this. The Blades are not the only ones. But on a side note, 30 games is like 6 tournaments, so that kind of proves one my points. If they donned the jersey then they donned the jersey, if my kid had an opportunity to play with the Blades for a tourney I'd let him.... I agree with you that the kid is the one who does the work regardless of where he is doing it. lots of successful skaters coming from lots of different places tells you it's ultimately the kid working hard enough.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:17 pm

terrymoore1717 wrote:
4. Your comment about players we have to release is unfair. You should talk to some of them. If you want to tell me who you are, I can privately give you some names.

If you think it's unfair to you, you should see how the kids themselves feel. I don't need names, thank you, I already know some of them. And no, my son was never cut by the blades, it never interested us.

I'm not bashing the blades, it is what it is. I just object to the claim that they develop hockey players.

Survey · Post by **Survey** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:24 pm

And no, my son was never cut by the blades, it never interested us.

Now your post makes sense...Do us all a favor and just state my kid was never looked at as being able to participate with the blades and I think he should have so I'll hold a grudge on them.

If your kid has an opportunity to play on that team I highly doubt you say no....and if you if you say otherwise your lying to yourself.

2112 · Post by **2112** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Survey wrote:
And no, my son was never cut by the blades, it never interested us.
Now your post makes sense...Do us all a favor and just state my kid was never looked at as being able to participate with the blades and I think he should have so I'll hold a grudge on them.

If your kid has an opportunity to play on that team I highly doubt you say no....and if you if you say otherwise your lying to yourself.

There are alot of kids that choose not to play for the Blades because they play on better teams, The Blades are not the only Elite Minnesota team.

icehornet · Post by **icehornet** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:45 pm

Much respect gained for Terry and the Blades program. Thank you for coming in to an environment like this and simply stating your case where people can take anonymous shots at you and the program. If some of you don't think playing on one of the Elite teams in the state and in big tournaments doesn't help kids develop than that's your prerogative. It doesn't sound to me like Terry is taking credit for "fully" developing any of the kids listed.

I'm not a fan of kids on the "regular" roster getting cut for big tournaments (especially for Canadian kids) but if everyone involved knows this is a risk or part of what happens then it's on the people involved to accept that as it is.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:46 pm

auld_skool wrote:The Blades do not develop hockey players. They seek out and invite the best players. They cut players who aren't up to their standards. They wanted to cut Erik Johnson. If a player moves on and gets to a high enough level, they'll take credit for him. If not, they can't even remember the kid's name.

I remember reading an article about Erik Johnson. Erik gave Bernie McBain credit for his development. With that said, if a player spends time with a group of skaters especially good skaters they will develop. If three different programs want to take credit. More power to them. Who are we to determine where the player learned the most?

Blades have long and strong history in Minnesota. No bashing please!

The Jackwagon · Post by **The Jackwagon** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:49 am

Terry that is not true. Jamie McBain and Michael Carman were only with the Blades the first summer of the 88 team in 1997.

Bernie and Irv Singer pull the team out and became the Minnesota Spirit in the summer of 1998. In July of 1998 Bernie And Tom Carman were not happy with Irv and then finished the summer of 1998 as the Minnesota 88s. They played in two tournaments in August of 1998. One in Chicago and and the Stars of tomorrow in Minnesota. The following summer of 1999 was the first full summer of the Minnesota 88s and they were together though 2003.

Terry you had started as the team manager of the 95 team in 2003 so it would be hard for you to know what was going on in 1995 and 96 when the 87 and 88 teams were being put together. Your kids were in diaper or yet unborn.

I helped with the 87 Blades team also pulled out of the Blades after the summer of 1997. John Arko made that an easy decision.

The reason we went to Bernie to coach with Irv Singer is because Bernie had his 87 Pride team which was half filled with 88s. The Pride team was skating the entire summer that year. Kind of a ready made team.

John Arko, Bill Flikeid, Larry Bader Terry Moore never had anything to do with the 87, 88 or the 89 Teams. They never stepped on the ice once.

Terry here is an idea, why not put on those skates of yours on and do some real development. Jump on the ice with the 03 Blades and teach them a thing or two. Please make sure and get some video.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:41 am

Survey wrote:
Now your post makes sense...Do us all a favor and just state my kid was never looked at as being able to participate with the blades and I think he should have so I'll hold a grudge on them.

If your kid has an opportunity to play on that team I highly doubt you say no....and if you if you say otherwise your lying to yourself.

That's one of the most inane comments I've ever read. You have no facts, no knowledge and obviously no time to know what you're talking about. Have a good weekend.