Let's Move the Girls High School Tournament to Ridder

[ghshockeyfan]

It all boils down to equality. The boys play there so the girls have to play there. End of discussion!

More to it than this simple statement alone. Far more. I'd agree though that it's likely not changing anytime soon. So that probably ends the discussion. The end.

[muckandgrind]

Wasn't Ridder built SPECIFICALLY for women's hockey? It's a great place to watch and play hockey. If it's good enough for the Gopher's, how is it not good enough for Girls HS?

[blindref]

I think Ridde would be perfect for the Girls for now.
It's only been a sport for fifteen years, let it grow and have a intense atmosphere instead of being as quiet as church.
If the rink sells out, move it next door to Mariucci.

Danceline is at the Excel and it sells out.

You wouldn't move it to the Dome to "stay even with football".

[allhoc11]

If the rink sells out, move it next door to Mariucci.

The game changes dramatically when you go to the olympic sheet, I don't feel mariucci would be a good fit for the girls state tourney.

Ridder creates a nice game atmosphere, but the locker room situation there is not adequate. If they were to play the state tourney their again they would have to fix the locker rooms.

[brookyone]

You wouldn't move it to the Dome to "stay even with football".

If the girls played varsity football you'd probably have a lawsuit demanding that very thing.

Agree that moving the State Tournament to an Olympic sheet not the best plan.

[ghshockeyfan]

Ridder has a seating capcity of 3400 *(including 210 club seats and nine suites with fourteen seats each = 210+9*14 = 210+126 = 336 - so 3400-336 = 3064 in main seating areas):
http://www.gophersports.com/facilities/ ... arena.html

I don't know that girls hockey has outgrown Ridder from a capacity standpoint.

What is the issue with the ridder locker rooms? I assume you could use those at Mariucci and walk down the hallway if this is really an issue.

[spin-o-rama]

One of the complaints about Ridder was the lack of a video scoreboard. I believe one was installed last month.

IMO, atmosphere trumps everything else. The excitement that comes from a SRO crowd will make it the "experience of a lifetime" more than spiffy locker rooms, extensive concessions, fancy video replay, etc.

MH and MSHSL need to line up the schedules better. The HS girls play the state tourney during youth district tourneys. This limits the availability of youth girls attending the state tourney. There is a "bye week" between youth regionals and state tourney for the HS boys tourney. Something similar should be worked out for the girls.

[ghshockeyfan]

One of the complaints about Ridder was the lack of a video scoreboard. I believe one was installed last month.

IMO, atmosphere trumps everything else. The excitement that comes from a SRO crowd will make it the "experience of a lifetime" more than spiffy locker rooms, extensive concessions, fancy video replay, etc.

MH and MSHSL need to line up the schedules better. The HS girls play the state tourney during youth district tourneys. This limits the availability of youth girls attending the state tourney. There is a "bye week" between youth regionals and state tourney for the HS boys tourney. Something similar should be worked out for the girls.

Couldn't agree more! And, yes, the new scoreboard is in. Pretty nice!

[hockey21]

Why does it matter to you that it is at the X? why do you care, there is no money out of your pocket. the X is one of the best rinks in the world and the girls love playing there, every player or coach I have talked to has loved playing at the X for the State tournament. It is for the girls , they love playing there and it is an outstanding building, quit trying to debate moving the girls, they should play at the X.

[spin-o-rama]

Why does it matter to you that it is at the X? why do you care, there is no money out of your pocket. the X is one of the best rinks in the world and the girls love playing there, every player or coach I have talked to has loved playing at the X for the State tournament. It is for the girls , they love playing there and it is an outstanding building, quit trying to debate moving the girls, they should play at the X.

What do you expect them to say? The X is nice and it is the state tournament. Of course they're going to say they loved playing there. Just think if a girl ripped on the X for its lack of atmosphere, she'd be getting more bad press than Tim Thomas.

Ridder is nice, too. The chance to have a few thousand fans right on top of you cheering doesn't happen much for girls sports. At Ridder it would happen now. Hopefully it would grow and eventually happen at the X.

[muckandgrind]

Why does it matter to you that it is at the X? why do you care, there is no money out of your pocket. the X is one of the best rinks in the world and the girls love playing there, every player or coach I have talked to has loved playing at the X for the State tournament. It is for the girls , they love playing there and it is an outstanding building, quit trying to debate moving the girls, they should play at the X.

So is Ridder, and it was built SPECIFICALLY for women's hockey.

I think it's the parents who love the idea of playing at the X moreso than then girls. The girls (and boys) are just happy at making the State tournament and would be excited to play anywhere. I think, as parents, we owe it to them to put them into a building that will generate the most excitement and atmosphere associated with the tournament....and Ridder fits that bill MUCH more than the X does.

[nameplate]

Ridder has hosted the 2010 Women's DI Frozen Four and the 2011 Men's DIII Frozen Four. I disagree that it isn't good enough for the girl's state tournament. The new video board is fantastic and will add a lot to the atmosphere. As far as the locker room situation goes teams can be placed in Mariucci as needed. Not all rinks have great locker rooms, including the new rink in Duluth, which is hosting this year's women's Frozen Four.

I attended the state tourney final at Ridder when Elk River won and it was great! There were so many people cheering. It was loud and exciting. I've been to multiple tourneys at the X and it leaves a lot to be desired. Yes the tournament has come a long way from the coliseum, but if you want to give the girls a tourney to remember they need to have the atmosphere of a loud crowd cheering you on.

[Nordic]

This debate could go on for a long time. Many poster's have given some great points. Good reading material.
Maybe the survey could be given to the players after they play in the state games? But, that might not be a good judge either. As they would not have a chance to play in front of a more packed arena.
I would think the players would really enjoy to play in front of a full stadium. During some of the games at the X, you can almost have a conversation across the ice with someone. If you yelled, but parents don't yell at games.
Locker rooms aside, they really mean nothing. If the games were played in front of a more packed stadium, might be exciting for the players, and the fans.
What I do not think has been address is the true reason it is at the X, not what someone thinks it is. Money? Political? Gender? At one time, I thought I read that for the X to keep the boys state, they agreed to a near loss in revenue to have the girls. Keep in mind, Target Center and the X are competitors and both want the boys tournament. So, this might come down to financial and the MSHSL might not care what you, the players, or I think!
Peace..

[Bighead]

Simply put the "X" does not deliver the feel of a Championship atmosphere! It is way too big for the attendance. Ridder would create the atmosphere of a big event....a packed house to witness a great event!

[ghshockeyfan]

Nordic makes a good point...

My guess is that there are some TV deals linked to the boys and the girls get to play at the X with some coverage too as a result.

I still think that Ridder is a better fit for many reasons. I don't believe we can poll the players as they don't know what it's like to play in a packed Ridder (or packed anything for that matter usually). This is an unfortuante truth.

A while back a poster asked "what does it matter to you?" or "why do you care?" or something like that.

It matters to me only because I've been an advocate of what I feel is best for the players and the girls' game for the better part of two decades.

[GopherFanARM]

I don't believe we can poll the players as they don't know what it's like to play in a packed Ridder (or packed anything for that matter usually).

I have been to some section games over the years that have been pretty packed, and the atmosphere is great with big contingents of fans from each competing school.

I'm not sure how well Ridder would handle all of the infrastructure issues. I've covered Frozen Four games at Ridder, and media, stats people, etc consume most of the upstairs seating. If there were eight teams playing in one day, all of the local radio, newspapers, etc. may not fit. The consolation games would have to go somewhere else, though I'm sure a good venue could be found.

There are some pros that one has to give to the X. When Ridder is full, it is tough to move around, because the concourse isn't roomy, particularly by the concession stands if there are lines. And concessions at Ridder are truly awful. If a fan was going to hang around all day, you'd have to walk to a restaurant, and the walk is shorter at the X.

[ghshockeyfan]

I don't believe we can poll the players as they don't know what it's like to play in a packed Ridder (or packed anything for that matter usually).

I have been to some section games over the years that have been pretty packed, and the atmosphere is great with big contingents of fans from each competing school.

I'll give you this point - very true - there are some good section finals as far as packing an arena and it is an amazing atmosphere.

I'm not sure how well Ridder would handle all of the infrastructure issues. I've covered Frozen Four games at Ridder, and media, stats people, etc consume most of the upstairs seating. If there were eight teams playing in one day, all of the local radio, newspapers, etc. may not fit. The consolation games would have to go somewhere else, though I'm sure a good venue could be found.

Another great point. I wonder how it worked out years ago... Maybe that was before the two classes of 8 teams per class tourneys... I can't remember now - it's been a while. I guess we'd have to see to really know.

There are some pros that one has to give to the X. When Ridder is full, it is tough to move around, because the concourse isn't roomy, particularly by the concession stands if there are lines. And concessions at Ridder are truly awful. If a fan was going to hang around all day, you'd have to walk to a restaurant, and the walk is shorter at the X.

Concessions are bad. I suppose they could work on addressing this by opening one or more at the rink next door or use some of the other space in the baseline center or other attached venues.

Shorter walk at X, probably more establishments too of various types, but dinkytown isn't that far - you're half-way there if you park in the ramp I'd guess. That is one down side to Ridder too - parking I suppose.

[SportsMa]

There is a five year contract that was renewed in 2008 at a MSHSL board meeting so State girls will be at the X until at least 2013.

Item #15. Approved five-year state (2009-2013) tournament site contracts
Xcel Energy Center Girls Hockey
University of Minnesota Girls Hockey Consolation

[brookyone]

Would moving back to Ridder generate another lawsuit? I have a feeling it might. Does anyone think that previous lawsuit had anything to do with the move? I tend to think it did influence the MSHSL some.

[GopherFanARM]

I wonder how it worked out years ago... Maybe that was before the two classes of 8 teams per class tourneys... I can't remember now - it's been a while.

I believe it was last at Ridder in the days of 8 teams in AA, 4 teams in A. Somehow they made those 8 teams work, but after a few years in Xcel, things tend to expand to the space available.

As for parking, they will jack the rates no matter where it is held. The day sessions might get a little crowded in some of the surface lots, but I think the numbers we are talking would still fit around Ridder.

[OntheEdge]

Would moving back to Ridder generate another lawsuit? I have a feeling it might. Does anyone think that previous lawsuit had anything to do with the move? I tend to think it did influence the MSHSL some.

It could generate a lawsuit but like the previous lawsuit my opinion is that I doubt that the plaintiffs would prevail. The previous lawsuit kick started the discussion but nothing was settled when the X was offered as a venue for the girls state tournament. I think the fact that the X has been so empty would give the High School league more amunition in their defense that the X is not the right venue.

However, even though I think Ridder is an option I think it should stay at the X. I've been reading posts on this site for many years and I thought I'd give you my two cents. This issue comes up every year. One group argues move it to Ridder for the atmosphere and the other group argues that the girls want the X. I used to believe in the atmosphere argument. The atmosphere at Ridder was awesome when the State Tourney was located there. Over the years while my daughter played, I asked my daughter and her friends, their opinion.

Not one girl argued that Ridder would be a better place. The overwhelming sentiment was that there was nothing like the experience of playing at the X and staying at a hotel in downtown St. Paul with your teammates.

I therefore changed my mind because I believe if it isn't cost prohibited then we should give the girls what they want and not leave it up to parents to tell them where they should play. It is about the girls. Many girls have told me that they don't care about the lack of a crowd at the X. Sure they would like more people to watch them but they are used to smaller crowds at their games and they wouldn't trade the experience of playing at the X and staying in St. Paul for a more raucous atmosphere at Ridder.

[OnTheBench]

I have to concur with OntheEdge. I asked my daughter (first year on varsity) what her preference would be if her team makes it to state in the future and her response was the X hands down. The question I asked was playing in front of sellout crowds at Ridder versus crowds like she has seen in previous tourneys at the X. Her perspective is that she has been to one game each year in 4 of the last 5 years (first round games the 2 years our team made it that far and the AA finals 2 other years). Her reasoning was that as someone who aspires to play college hockey she believes that she will have opportunities to play at Ridder in the future but playing at the X is much more of a once in a lifetime opportunity, if she is that lucky.

My opinion is that the real question isn't whether to move the tournament, but how do we get more people to show up in the building it is in right now so this subject becomes moot in the future (the topic of another recent thread). My two cents is that it is unrealistic to expect that the girls tournament will ever look like the boys, but it would be wonderful to see a couple thousand girl hockey players (from mites to high school) attending the AA finals every year. My daughter has already asked to go again this year and I am going to encourage her to invite some of her teammates so hopefully we will be doing our part to get there.

[Hieronymus]

I, too, asked my daughter and she didn't hestitate for one moment before saying the "X". She's played numerous games at Ridder over the years and it just wouldn't have that "special" feel. She said this would be the only chance she would ever have of playing a "real game" at the Xcel so that's where she would want it.

I completely get the "atmosphere" argument and before talking to my daugther would have strongly agrued it should be moved back to Ridder. However, after that conversation, I would have a hard time arguing to move it.

[AimHigh]

[quote="Hieronymus"]I, too, asked my daughter and she didn't hestitate for one moment before saying the "X".

Same here, daughter played in the state tournament. When asked her preference, the X or Ridder in front of a large, close crowd, she also answered without hesitation, the X. I know her teammates felt the same.

[GopherFanARM]

My opinion is that the real question isn't whether to move the tournament, but how do we get more people to show up in the building it is in right now ...

For the "A" tournament, it would help if a greater percentage of the games were competitive. The quarterfinal round is painful; three of the four games were blowouts last year. I like girls hockey, but 12-1 games at State aren't doing anyone a favor. On the "AA" side, the caliber of hockey definitely deserves more fans.