Coaching Question - Cliques

[jBlaze3000]

Just wondering how other coaches deal with the formation of cliques on team. My situation is on a PeeWee B team. For the most part, it's been a really good group of kids but the last few weeks I've seen a definite segregation of the weaker kids on the team from the better kids. Basically, it's a lot of ganging up on kids when they make a mistake, cutting in line which in turn causes a lot of yelling and screaming that disrupts practice, and name calling in the locker room. I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

I'm starting to see a lack of motivation from a handfull of kids but it's hard to do anything about it when you don't catch the "bullying" in the act. I would have thought that at PeeWee's I wouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff. Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW, I am only an assistant coach.

[Survey]

That is an unfortunate thing...but it's not uncommon. First off I would sit down with the captains of that team. They are supposed to be the leaders for "all" players on the team. It should be their responsibility to let you as a coach know of any crap that is going on when you are not in the locker room. If this isn't happening I would suggest letting them know they are not doing their role as captains and maybe think about picking new ones if that doesn't change. Without team chemistry your team will not go very far...as you already know this.

Secondly I would make it known at the next practice that respect is one of the biggest things these kids need to have...respect for the game, their opponents, their coaches, the refs and the rest of their teammates. If this isn't being shown their will be consequences. Sometimes you have to be a little tougher on these kids....even if one of them ends up being your best player.

There are many other ways but I would start with that and see what you come up with.

[jBlaze3000]

First off I would sit down with the captains of that team.

This suggestion really made me think because we don't have captains. Again, I am just an assistant but I've always thought that having captains at this level was kind of just a nice way to reward kids who are putting in extra effort.

I can see now how benificial it would have been to pick 2 or 3 kids as captains, and make sure they understand that part of their role is to help us coaches get the most out of everyone by setting a good example on the ice and in the locker room. I even have 3 kids in mind who are good leaders and who the kids respect and who I think could have helped us a lot in keeping the team together.

Thanks for the input.

[Defensive Zone]

First off I would sit down with the captains of that team.

This suggestion really made me think because we don't have captains. Again, I am just an assistant but I've always thought that having captains at this level was kind of just a nice way to reward kids who are putting in extra effort.

I can see now how benificial it would have been to pick 2 or 3 kids as captains, and make sure they understand that part of their role is to help us coaches get the most out of everyone by setting a good example on the ice and in the locker room. I even have 3 kids in mind who are good leaders and who the kids respect and who I think could have helped us a lot in keeping the team together.

Thanks for the input.

Maybe it is time to have a parent meeting. Explain to them what you have seen and heard. Have each parent sit down with their son at home and talk to them about team expectations. Just an idea.

[nofinish]

A little late in the year for parent and kid meeting on what expectations are but better late than never. Once kids know and understand expected behavior then I would suggest that coaches make random visits into lockeroom before and after ice time. Teams that I have helped coach have done this and we had little to no problems.
Any continued behavior issues were usually fixed quickly by the kid getting some bench time in next game.

[observer]

Any poor disrespectful behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It’s the coach’s responsibility. Sit guilty players a couple of shifts at the beginning of the game and explain clearly to the whole team before the game why. Let all the players hear it in front of all of them. It can’t be tolerated. Stop the practice the second you see it happening. Let the player and parents fuss and then explain to them why. It's the worst thing that can happen to a team.

A sideline but why I responded to this post. Anyone watch Eli on Letterman last night? Eli stated, as tough a coach as Coughlin is, that the primary point he made before the game was about loving one another and loving your team mates and that is the only way it will work. Everyone pulls on the same rope together, respects all their team mates equally, and love for one another is the most important element to the Super Bowl winning coach. That was a big surprise to me. Think of a hard ass coach you heard that come from before.

I’ll add, a number of players don’t want to be captain because to them it means bossing their friends and team mates and most don’t want anything to do with that. Captains can also be called butt kissers. It’s changed a lot from the days we were all raised to be the captain and one or two of us were named. Not the solution coach. Take on the responsibility, you’re the adult.

[InigoMontoya]

I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

What did the locker room monitor say about it?

[The Huge Hook]

I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

What did the locker room monitor say about it?

The pot has been stirred I was thinking the same thing!

[C-dad]

I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

What did the locker room monitor say about it?

My question too. It's regulation in our district and association to have an adult in the locker room at all times kids are present.

If not required, I'm afraid in this day it should be. Sad situation, but with the issues surrounding bullying, it is wise to supervise kids now.

[jBlaze3000]

Any poor disrespectful behavior shouldn't be tolerated. It’s the coach’s responsibility. Sit guilty players a couple of shifts at the beginning of the game and explain clearly to the whole team before the game why. Let all the players hear it in front of all of them. It can’t be tolerated. Stop the practice the second you see it happening. Let the player and parents fuss and then explain to them why. It's the worst thing that can happen to a team.

A sideline but why I responded to this post. Anyone watch Eli on Letterman last night? Eli stated, as tough a coach as Coughlin is, that the primary point he made before the game was about loving one another and loving your team mates and that is the only way it will work. Everyone pulls on the same rope together, respects all their team mates equally, and love for one another is the most important element to the Super Bowl winning coach. That was a big surprise to me. Think of a hard ass coach you heard that come from before.

I’ll add, a number of players don’t want to be captain because to them it means bossing their friends and team mates and most don’t want anything to do with that. Captains can also be called butt kissers. It’s changed a lot from the days we were all raised to be the captain and one or two of us were named. Not the solution coach. Take on the responsibility, you’re the adult.

Great post right up until the last paragraph. The head coach is and should be the ultimate figure of authority on a team but they can't be everywhere all the times.

Kids are sneaky and they will wait until a coach has his back turned or is just out of earshot before doing stuff like this. Then trying to find out who the guilty culprit is becomes a game of "he said, she said".

Asking a 12 or 13 year old to set a good example on the ice and the locker room is not skirting your responsibility as a coach. Fear of being called a "butt kisser" is not a reason to not be a leader.

[jBlaze3000]

I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

What did the locker room monitor say about it?

Head coach was in the locker room, says he didn't hear it. I was not at practice that day but have no doubt that this happened. Again, kids are sneaky and lockers rooms are pretty noisy before and after practice.

[seek & destroy]

Great post right up until the last paragraph. The head coach is and should be the ultimate figure of authority on a team but they can't be everywhere all the times.

Kids are sneaky and they will wait until a coach has his back turned or is just out of earshot before doing stuff like this. Then trying to find out who the guilty culprit is becomes a game of "he said, she said".

Asking a 12 or 13 year old to set a good example on the ice and the locker room is not skirting your responsibility as a coach. Fear of being called a "butt kisser" is not a reason to not be a leader.

I don't buy it. A locker room is a 15 X 17 room. You can't tell me that the coach (head or assistant) who is in the room would not be able to monitor, hear and take care of these situations. It sounds like the coaching staff is leaving the room (for whatever reason) and the kids are monitoring themselves. While the coaches are away, some kids are being jerks. No matter if the coach is in the room or not, these situations can not be tolerated.

The most important thing to any real hockey player is playing time. Set the team down, clear the air and let them know that if you hear or find out that someone has been disrespectful to another teammate in any way shape or form, they will sit for a period the next game. If it happens again, they will sit for a game and there will be a meeting with the player and his parents.

There is no reason, that I can think of, that one of the coaches (who should always be in the room) would not be able to hear or see the incidences that you are describing. Expecting a 12 year old "captain" to be responsible for the room is asking a little much when the adult coaches can't handle it.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

I had a parent come to me regarding another player continually calling their kid "gay" in the locker room. I sat down with this kid and all he did was deny it (seems like everything happens when the coaches have their back turned).

What did the locker room monitor say about it?

The locker room attendant was too busy telling the boys what they should be doing on the ice.

Word at the rink is USA hockey is coming up with a Certified Position “Attendant to the Locker Attendant”, of course you will have to take a class and pay the $50.00 dollar yearly registration fee, but it comes with a blue fancy card & 10% off at Hockey Giant.

[observer]

You mentioned on the ice. Someone knows who the guilty parties are. I could come and watch one practice and tell ya. Sit em.

As I've often said to my kids, when it's all said and done behavior is the most important quality. I don't care how good of player you are without good behavior no one will touch you. In school, sports, social life, work, etc., that is ultimately how you will be measured before anything else.

That's my position on importance. The best coaches are the ones that, first, get the kids to play together and support each other. You can't have success, as a team, without it.

And a famous Bernie quote, "with discipline comes freedom."

[C-dad]

Great post right up until the last paragraph. The head coach is and should be the ultimate figure of authority on a team but they can't be everywhere all the times.

Kids are sneaky and they will wait until a coach has his back turned or is just out of earshot before doing stuff like this. Then trying to find out who the guilty culprit is becomes a game of "he said, she said".

Asking a 12 or 13 year old to set a good example on the ice and the locker room is not skirting your responsibility as a coach. Fear of being called a "butt kisser" is not a reason to not be a leader.

I don't buy it. A locker room is a 15 X 17 room. You can't tell me that the coach (head or assistant) who is in the room would not be able to monitor, hear and take care of these situations. It sounds like the coaching staff is leaving the room (for whatever reason) and the kids are monitoring themselves. While the coaches are away, some kids are being jerks. No matter if the coach is in the room or not, these situations can not be tolerated.

The most important thing to any real hockey player is playing time. Set the team down, clear the air and let them know that if you hear or find out that someone has been disrespectful to another teammate in any way shape or form, they will sit for a period the next game. If it happens again, they will sit for a game and there will be a meeting with the player and his parents.

There is no reason, that I can think of, that one of the coaches (who should always be in the room) would not be able to hear or see the incidences that you are describing. Expecting a 12 year old "captain" to be responsible for the room is asking a little much when the adult coaches can't handle it.

Excellent assessment in my view.

[jBlaze3000]

There is no reason, that I can think of, that one of the coaches (who should always be in the room) would not be able to hear or see the incidences that you are describing. Expecting a 12 year old "captain" to be responsible for the room is asking a little much when the adult coaches can't handle it.

First off, there was one incident that I described in the locker room. I wasn't there, player denied it, head coach said he didn't hear it. I can easily think of a situation where a kid can get picked on right under the coaches nose. I was a kid once too and it wasn't all that long ago. If they know they will get in trouble they will wait until the coach turns his back and give a little shove or whisper a name. Maybe the coach heard it and is lying, but I have no way of knowing that.

Second of all, as I said this has been a really good group of kids for the most part. The locker room is not out of control.

Third, nowhere did I even remotely suggest that a 12 year old should be responsible for locker room behavior.

[MrBoDangles]

I want to meet the person that hears every word, of every conversation, in a loud locker room.

How about we give some good advice here...

[seek & destroy]

There is no reason, that I can think of, that one of the coaches (who should always be in the room) would not be able to hear or see the incidences that you are describing. Expecting a 12 year old "captain" to be responsible for the room is asking a little much when the adult coaches can't handle it.

First off, there was one incident that I described in the locker room. I wasn't there, player denied it, head coach said he didn't hear it. I can easily think of a situation where a kid can get picked on right under the coaches nose. I was a kid once too and it wasn't all that long ago. If they know they will get in trouble they will wait until the coach turns his back and give a little shove or whisper a name. Maybe the coach heard it and is lying, but I have no way of knowing that.

Second of all, as I said this has been a really good group of kids for the most part. The locker room is not out of control.

Third, nowhere did I even remotely suggest that a 12 year old should be responsible for locker room behavior.

After re-reading your comment, I agree that you weren't saying that a 12 year should be responsible for the behavior of the locker room...my bad for misinterpreting your comment. I agree with you that there is no reason that a 12 year old can't be a good example.

Mr Bo - I am not saying that you can hear every word of every conversation but I do think that if you are monitoring the situation, especially one where you know of some issues, it is pretty easy to make sure that everyone is treating each other with respect. Also, if you had discussed the issue with the team (as I suggested) and made them aware of the consequences (playing time lost), a kid would be taking a pretty big chance making derogatory comments to another player in a locker room with the coach right there - no matter how loud the room was.

[puckulence]

This is an interesting problem. But here is how I would handle it.

PeeWee player are at an age where they are afraid to tell the coach something because they fear the "snitch code". So before the next practice have all the players dressed and ready to go 15 minutes before the ice time. Have all the coaches in the room to address the team. Let them know it is not okay to treat people the way you have heard they are treating one another. Tell them as coaches you are dissapointed to hear that this team is doing this to one another. Most kids look up to their coachs so if they know they let you down with this behavior they will think twice about doing it again. Then let them know the consequences if you hear something is going on in the locker room anymore. I would end by asking the team if there is any player that wants to say anything, or appologize for doing anything to someone on the team that they think was wrong. Hopefully this will get some kids to open up or there will be dead silence. If no one wants to say anything just have them sit there quietly until practice starts.

Then when practice starts I would leave the pucks in the bag for awhile and do some old fashioned skating. They are a team so you need to penalize the whole team for the original locker room situation you described. Then after this you can puncish the bad apples.

Hope this help and good luck the rest of the year. And most of all thanks for coaching the kids.

[MrBoDangles]

There is no reason, that I can think of, that one of the coaches (who should always be in the room) would not be able to hear or see the incidences that you are describing. Expecting a 12 year old "captain" to be responsible for the room is asking a little much when the adult coaches can't handle it.

First off, there was one incident that I described in the locker room. I wasn't there, player denied it, head coach said he didn't hear it. I can easily think of a situation where a kid can get picked on right under the coaches nose. I was a kid once too and it wasn't all that long ago. If they know they will get in trouble they will wait until the coach turns his back and give a little shove or whisper a name. Maybe the coach heard it and is lying, but I have no way of knowing that.

Second of all, as I said this has been a really good group of kids for the most part. The locker room is not out of control.

Third, nowhere did I even remotely suggest that a 12 year old should be responsible for locker room behavior.

After re-reading your comment, I agree that you weren't saying that a 12 year should be responsible for the behavior of the locker room...my bad for misinterpreting your comment. I agree with you that there is no reason that a 12 year old can't be a good example.

Mr Bo - I am not saying that you can hear every word of every conversation but I do think that if you are monitoring the situation, especially one where you know of some issues, it is pretty easy to make sure that everyone is treating each other with respect. Also, if you had discussed the issue with the team (as I suggested) and made them aware of the consequences (playing time lost), a kid would be taking a pretty big chance making derogatory comments to another player in a locker room with the coach right there - no matter how loud the room was.

I was saying you can't hear every word of every conversation. You brought up the 15 by 17 room.

I agreed with everything else you said. The problem was brought to their attention from the incidences... Now he asked for help to solve the problem and you gave him some great advice.

There was no need for anything besides the great advice.

[InigoMontoya]

Basically, it's a lot of ganging up on kids when they make a mistake, cutting in line which in turn causes a lot of yelling and screaming that disrupts practice

but it's hard to do anything about it when you don't catch the "bullying" in the act

Sounds like you're catching it in the act, you're just not doing anything about it.

[jBlaze3000]

Basically, it's a lot of ganging up on kids when they make a mistake, cutting in line which in turn causes a lot of yelling and screaming that disrupts practice

but it's hard to do anything about it when you don't catch the "bullying" in the act

Sounds like you're catching it in the act, you're just not doing anything about it.

See it's comments like this that make me wonder why I bother posting a serious question on an internet message board. What would give you the impression that when I see something on the ice I'm not doing anything about it? You've obviously never coached before or are just not very bright. Let me dumb it down for you:

-When I see a kid doing something inappropriate I do something about it.
-Sometimes when you're focused on coaching hockey, you don't see what happens (even though you can probably guess) and all you see is a bunch of kids whining and pointing fingers.

To those who gave legitimate suggestions, thanks.

To the others, I only hope my sons can someday play with coaches as great as you.

[PanthersIn2011]

JBlaze:

Here is an old technique that I have used. It is basically the Sargent Hulka routine from Stripes.

We had an incident where locker rooms were trashed (gatorade on the walls, oranges squashed on the floor, etc.). The team was called together and told that the behavior was unacceptable. And that the individuals responsible were expected to come talk to one of the coaches discretely. No one was asked to identify another player -- only themselves. I also made it clear that if no one came forward, we would deal with this as a team -- on the ice, at the next practice. Two individuals came forward and identified themselves -- they were immediately taken to see the rink manager to apologize and volunteer to clean locker rooms.

Kids make mistakes. I think most kids have the character to come forward and fix their mistakes. Problems become opportunities for coaches to mentor good behavior.

P.S. In my case, I already knew that there were 3 individuals involved, but there were no adult witnesses. I learned something about the two who had the guts to come forward. And I learned even more about the one who didn't.

[auld_skool]

I only have one guideline for myself as a coach: You get what you tolerate.

[InigoMontoya]

Basically, it's a lot of ganging up on kids when they make a mistake, cutting in line which in turn causes a lot of yelling and screaming that disrupts practice

but it's hard to do anything about it when you don't catch the "bullying" in the act

Sounds like you're catching it in the act, you're just not doing anything about it.

See it's comments like this that make me wonder why I bother posting a serious question on an internet message board. What would give you the impression that when I see something on the ice I'm not doing anything about it? You've obviously never coached before or are just not very bright. Let me dumb it down for you:

-When I see a kid doing something inappropriate I do something about it.
-Sometimes when you're focused on coaching hockey, you don't see what happens (even though you can probably guess) and all you see is a bunch of kids whining and pointing fingers.

To those who gave legitimate suggestions, thanks.

To the others, I only hope my sons can someday play with coaches as great as you.

You can dumb it down as much as you like. You wonder why you've lost control of 12 and 13 year old boys, and I suggested it is because they haven't received a clear message that the behavior they have exhibited won't be tolerated. You should rather wonder: why you post, when you don't want to hear what someone has to say. If you just want affirmation of what a swell guy you are, then you should simply phrase the question that way.