RickyTicky wrote:Sats- Do you mean the 10-11 North team that just got destroyed by Burnsville on Saturday 8-1? Your right, huge upgrade in coaching staff.. they really turned that program around!
Impossible to turn around a program in 2.5 months that has been below average for over a decade (don't throw in that they made the tourney all these times in the last 10 yrs-it doesn't matter), The current staff inherited a program with a feeder system that leaves by the time they get to HS because anyone with any talent didn't wanna play for the former staff. If you know anything about hockey and have watched them more than twice this yr you will see that they play much better as a team than south does, can actually sustain a decent forecheck, play disciplined in their d zone and in a lot of their games have great puck possession. Their special teams are much improved and YES, they do have a chance even without Lindgren. Last time I checked they BEAT LS a month ago. This is a million times better than the sloppy mess LN has put on the ice in years past.
Take LN's best player (Winiecki) away and LS's (Kloos) and LN beats LS 9 times out of 10. I will not be one bit suprised if LN is at the X in March.
This isn't the prototypical players 25 game schedule. Kloos plays what is close to 30 minutes a game against good teams, and the other teams game plan is simply to shut him down. In games against teams like Eagan there goal is simply to be all over him and be as physical as possible. Its been that way since he was a sophomore, and even before then in youth hockey. Kloos takes a beating. Part from trying to do so much when he is tired, and also from all the attention. With as much ice time as he gets against good teams and the recent two week stretch against Eagan, Burnsville, Hill, and Eden Prairie its no wonder he looks gassed. He is probably experiencing a large amount of fatigue. If I were the coach of LS I would play him as little as possible these last 4 games, then even less in the first 2 section games. I would try to save him for that section final where he will be needed most.
Agree with most of this. He is the focal point of every team they play and does take a lot of shots every game. He's small, but deceptively tough. He's on the ice nearly every other shift and I pointed this out the first time they played Eagan. I think a lot of the LS loss in the section final last year to LN had to do with Weber double shifting the Kloos line starting in the 2nd period, by the time the 3rd OT rolled around they could barely stand up. There is no way Weber plays him as little as possible for their remaining schedule. Thursday is a must win game for them against LN for section seeding purposes, Sat they play an AV team that played them to the wire a month ago, next week they play Kennedy (but based on the other cupcake games they have had this yr Kloos will be on the ice deep in the 3rd period even with 5 pts) then they close out with an up and down but still difficult Burnsville squad that will be fighting for the #2 seed in their section. He should play the 1st period in the Kennedy game, the 1st period in their section quarterfinal game and go from there. I've said it before it would be too bad if the state isn't able to watch this kid at the X in March who is the IMHO the most dynamic, electrifying HS hockey player to come out of MN since Danny Welch at Hastings in the late 90's, but LN will not lay down and until LS beats them in playoffs its still their title to lose.
RickyTicky wrote:Sats- Do you mean the 10-11 North team that just got destroyed by Burnsville on Saturday 8-1? Your right, huge upgrade in coaching staff.. they really turned that program around!
Impossible to turn around a program in 2.5 months that has been below average for over a decade (don't throw in that they made the tourney all these times in the last 10 yrs-it doesn't matter), The current staff inherited a program with a feeder system that leaves by the time they get to HS because anyone with any talent didn't wanna play for the former staff. If you know anything about hockey and have watched them more than twice this yr you will see that they play much better as a team than south does, can actually sustain a decent forecheck, play disciplined in their d zone and in a lot of their games have great puck possession. Their special teams are much improved and YES, they do have a chance even without Lindgren. Last time I checked they BEAT LS a month ago. This is a million times better than the sloppy mess LN has put on the ice in years past.
Take LN's best player (Winiecki) away and LS's (Kloos) and LN beats LS 9 times out of 10. I will not be one bit suprised if LN is at the X in March.
Stats81 / Lets be real.
9 out of 10 times.
I have been at every Lakeville North Game.
Even though we have talked many times. I respectfully disagree.
Could we end up at the X? (Sure) -
Can we out-coach LS - (Sure) LS Coaching staff either does not know how to adjust or is just to arrogant / I'm not sure)
But 9 out of 10. Lets not stir up the hornest nest before Thursdays game.
Too many friends on the southside to be that arrogant.
Thats Sats for you.. The very concerned "outsider" that somehow knows all about Lakeville hockey. You know you are over exagerating when you have people from Lakeville North telling you you're wrong. I too have been to my fair share of North games and besides the game against South, I do not see what you are seeing and I think their record proves that. I saw the game on Saturday against Burnsville and the game wasn't all that lop-sided actually.. but North was so sloppy in the D-Zone and lead to many of Burnsvilles goals.. very coachable mistakes that shouldn't be happening this late in the season. How long until Lakeville turns on these coaches and blames them for every loss and gives them no credit for wins too just like Schmitz? I give it 1 year.. Truth is, the moment Lakeville split into 2 schools it will make it very difficult for them to ever compete with EP, Edina, Minnetonka.. ect. Look at Rochester once they added Century.. Besides a few decent Century teams, the last 10+ years no public Rochester team has even been able to compete against metro teams
Mule, Kloos also played 27 Elite games and a USHL game, I think that makes 49. Amazingly he's been on the stat sheet in every single one. I've seen many of them and he is not the same player now he was earlier. He logged big minutes for Team SE in the fall too.
RickyTicky wrote:Thats Sats for you.. The very concerned "outsider" that somehow knows all about Lakeville hockey. You know you are over exagerating when you have people from Lakeville North telling you you're wrong. I too have been to my fair share of North games and besides the game against South, I do not see what you are seeing and I think their record proves that. I saw the game on Saturday against Burnsville and the game wasn't all that lop-sided actually.. but North was so sloppy in the D-Zone and lead to many of Burnsvilles goals.. very coachable mistakes that shouldn't be happening this late in the season. How long until Lakeville turns on these coaches and blames them for every loss and gives them no credit for wins too just like Schmitz? I give it 1 year.. Truth is, the moment Lakeville split into 2 schools it will make it very difficult for them to ever compete with EP, Edina, Minnetonka.. ect. Look at Rochester once they added Century.. Besides a few decent Century teams, the last 10+ years no public Rochester team has even been able to compete against metro teams
Century took 3rd at the tourney in 07 pal, I would say that's more than 'decent'. In 04 and 06 if they wouldn't have run into a red hot Lakeville/Lakeville North Goalie in the section finals they would have done some damage at the tourney too. In 2000 the Mayo team led by Andy Canzanello (who played 4 yrs at CC) was a few bounces away from finishing top 3 too.
LN will be the team to beat for the next 5-10 yrs in section 1AA with that coaching staff, and they won't just be a 1 and done Mariucci team in the tourney. Mark my words Ticky.
RickyTicky wrote:Sats- Do you mean the 10-11 North team that just got destroyed by Burnsville on Saturday 8-1? Your right, huge upgrade in coaching staff.. they really turned that program around!
Impossible to turn around a program in 2.5 months that has been below average for over a decade (don't throw in that they made the tourney all these times in the last 10 yrs-it doesn't matter), The current staff inherited a program with a feeder system that leaves by the time they get to HS because anyone with any talent didn't wanna play for the former staff. If you know anything about hockey and have watched them more than twice this yr you will see that they play much better as a team than south does, can actually sustain a decent forecheck, play disciplined in their d zone and in a lot of their games have great puck possession. Their special teams are much improved and YES, they do have a chance even without Lindgren. Last time I checked they BEAT LS a month ago. This is a million times better than the sloppy mess LN has put on the ice in years past.
Take LN's best player (Winiecki) away and LS's (Kloos) and LN beats LS 9 times out of 10. I will not be one bit suprised if LN is at the X in March.
Even though we have talked many times. I respectfully disagree.
RickyTicky wrote:Thats Sats for you.. The very concerned "outsider" that somehow knows all about Lakeville hockey. You know you are over exagerating when you have people from Lakeville North telling you you're wrong. I too have been to my fair share of North games and besides the game against South, I do not see what you are seeing and I think their record proves that. I saw the game on Saturday against Burnsville and the game wasn't all that lop-sided actually.. but North was so sloppy in the D-Zone and lead to many of Burnsvilles goals.. very coachable mistakes that shouldn't be happening this late in the season. How long until Lakeville turns on these coaches and blames them for every loss and gives them no credit for wins too just like Schmitz? I give it 1 year.. Truth is, the moment Lakeville split into 2 schools it will make it very difficult for them to ever compete with EP, Edina, Minnetonka.. ect. Look at Rochester once they added Century.. Besides a few decent Century teams, the last 10+ years no public Rochester team has even been able to compete against metro teams
Century took 3rd at the tourney in 07 pal, I would say that's more than 'decent'. In 04 and 06 if they wouldn't have run into a red hot Lakeville/Lakeville North Goalie in the section finals they would have done some damage at the tourney too. In 2000 the Mayo team led by Andy Canzanello (who played 4 yrs at CC) was a few bounces away from finishing top 3 too.
LN will be the team to beat for the next 5-10 yrs in section 1AA with that coaching staff, and they won't just be a 1 and done Mariucci team in the tourney. Mark my words Ticky.
Haven't they been the team to beat in that section for the last 6 years even with the old coaching staff? I am pretty sure that they have been in the last 6 section 1AA finals and made 3 state tournament appearances winning the consolation championship last year. Not sure why these new guys are so great in your eyes and the old staff was so horrible. I am not saying these new coaches won't someday be considered to be a great staff but for right now none of them haven't proven anything as far as a coach goes at the high school level. In fact isn't this the first year any of them have coached boys high school hockey? I wish them luck and hope they do well but lets not jump the gun on this staff yet. Just because you were a great player and know all about the game of hockey doesn't mean your a great coach and instantly know how to teach it. That takes time.
I said "besides a few decent Century teams" pal.. And that was mainly because they had future Gopher Alex Kangas in net
Team to beat in section 1AA is like saying Lord of the flys lately.. And I thought your comment of LN beating LS 9 times out of 10 was an exaggeration but you topped that one.. I will definitely mark your words because saying LN will make a run at state in the next 5 years is laughable and borderline delusional. They will be lucky to take advantage of the worst section in the state for the past decade and not get embarrassed too bad at state (exactly like with Schmitz). The new coaches may be better but since Lakeville split they will probably never have the depth on either team to contend for state champs.. Some people need to face facts rather blame coaches
RickyTicky wrote:I said "besides a few decent Century teams" pal.. And that was mainly because they had future Gopher Alex Kangas in net
Team to beat in section 1AA is like saying Lord of the flys lately.. And I thought your comment of LN beating LS 9 times out of 10 was an exaggeration but you topped that one.. I will definitely mark your words because saying LN will make a run at state in the next 5 years is laughable and borderline delusional. They will be lucky to take advantage of the worst section in the state for the past decade and not get embarrassed too bad at state (exactly like with Schmitz). The new coaches may be better but since Lakeville split they will probably never have the depth on either team to contend for state champs.. Some people need to face facts rather blame coaches
It wasn't mainly because they had Kangas in net. He graduated in 05 boss. 07 team taking 3rd had nothing to do with him (unless you know something the rest of us don't) Joe Knoepke, Garrett Grimsted and Joe Faupel were stand out HS players for Century during this era.
To clarify I said take LN's best player out of the game (Winiecki) and LS's (Kloos) and LN beats them 9 out of 10 times. Never said that straight up. Although LN has beat LS when it counts every year. Never said they would compete for state championship, but rather would not be a one and down mariucci team. That coaching staff w/Ryan Kraft alone will make sure the program makes some noise in the next decade. You will see more and more top end players sticking around and their Bantam and Pee Wee A teams are both solid and have knocked off several top 10 teams throughout the season.
This isn't the prototypical players 25 game schedule. Kloos plays what is close to 30 minutes a game against good teams, and the other teams game plan is simply to shut him down. In games against teams like Eagan there goal is simply to be all over him and be as physical as possible. Its been that way since he was a sophomore, and even before then in youth hockey. Kloos takes a beating. Part from trying to do so much when he is tired, and also from all the attention. With as much ice time as he gets against good teams and the recent two week stretch against Eagan, Burnsville, Hill, and Eden Prairie its no wonder he looks gassed. He is probably experiencing a large amount of fatigue. If I were the coach of LS I would play him as little as possible these last 4 games, then even less in the first 2 section games. I would try to save him for that section final where he will be needed most.
Not only that, but he played a terrific fall schedule in the Elite League.
I am always amused when Metro fans complain about their decline in hockey or any sport because the school has split or has "low" enrollment. According to MSHSL Lakeville North has an enrollment 1,411 and Lakeville South has an enrollment of 1,414. If those enrollments were at Rapids, the Falls, Hibbing or Greenway you would see some championships back on the Range. My guess is that numbers is not the reason for a lack of success in this situation.
Just a little additional info, last year if Lindgren doesn't make 55 save we might see things differently. If you outshoot somebody 46-13 through 3 periods of hockey and lose you just plain ran in to a hot goalie, it doesn't have to be about the coaching. LS has a very top end peewee team this year and if they stick around the prediction seems a little thin. Now I know what you're going to say....they will all leave....maybe so, but none of us has a crystal ball so lets just wait and see.
As for enrollment it is and isn't the case. Yes Lakeville has two good sized high schools. What you likely don't know is that when these two teams were at the bantam level I helped evaluate the tryouts. Combined there were less than 100 bantams. Contrast this with EP, Edina, Wayzata and Minnetonka and you'll find that the tryout numbers for these schools alone ranged from around 100 at Tonka to 160 in both Wayzata and Edina. So yes the numbers game effects even schools the size of the Lakeville high schools
Are we really going to split hairs here? Fine, one Century team that took 3rd. you can hang your hat on that one.. But for the most part Section 1 has provided teams that are just happy to be there and are trying not to get blown out. And since you said LN won't go 2 and out I assumed you meant they would contend for the championship.. or did you mean consolation championship? because they have done that before too.
Bottom line I think we agree to disagree.. In 5 years I see the 2 Lakevilles right where they are now and where they have been in the past, 2 decent teams but not contenders, probably trading off state tournament appearances due to a weak section. If North becomes a consistent contender you can laugh in my face and tell me it was coaching all along
The fact that you only had "100" try out for both schools does not negate the fact of the size of the pool that is available. Why aren't more kids trying out? What are the numbers at the mites and peewee level? If there is something wrong with the Lakeville program lack of numbers is not the reason. The so called lack of numbers is a symptom, not the problem.
You think the economy is only tough on the range? Lakeville is not blessed with the wealth of many of the other communities I mentioned. Look around at hockey in our state and it won't take long to figure out why certain cities are dominating the way they are. Remember that 100 got split in two. 100 would have been great for one school and Lakeville would have been very competitive on a state wide level. No sour grapes here, it is what it is but the reasons Lakeville hockey doesn't succeed are far more than a coach that got run out.
RickyTicky wrote:Are we really going to split hairs here? Fine, one Century team that took 3rd. you can hang your hat on that one.. But for the most part Section 1 has provided teams that are just happy to be there and are trying not to get blown out. And since you said LN won't go 2 and out I assumed you meant they would contend for the championship.. or did you mean consolation championship? because they have done that before too.
Bottom line I think we agree to disagree.. In 5 years I see the 2 Lakevilles right where they are now and where they have been in the past, 2 decent teams but not contenders, probably trading off state tournament appearances due to a weak section. If North becomes a consistent contender you can laugh in my face and tell me it was coaching all along
I'm just curious - do you have a crystal ball that tells that two players are "different" from each other from a head shot? The one "skinnier" looking player could be 6'5", 175 lbs. and the other 5'7" and 190 lbs. We ALL know that's not the case, but let's not assume TOO much from a couple "head shots". Fair enough?
If anyone thinks enrollment doesn't matter, ask yourself if Eden Prairie would have been as good as they have the last five years if they split into two schools ten years ago.
Thirty years ago when White Bear Mariner was absorbed into White Bear, I felt the same way the French did when East and West Germany reunited:
We love Germany so much, we want there to be two of them.
Do you actually think that the economy on the Range is not any worse than the Metro area? When was the last time you spent some time on the Range? I suggest you take a ride and tour the Range. Start with the towns that make up Greenway (LaPrairie, Coleraine, Bovey, Taconite, Marble, Calumet, and Pengilly). If you actually think they are not significantly worse off than Lakeville you need to do some serious research on the economy in Northeast Minnesota. I live in the Metro area and know there is no comparison.
Do you actually think that the economy on the Range is not any worse than the Metro area? When was the last time you spent some time on the Range? I suggest you take a ride and tour the Range. Start with the towns that make up Greenway (LaPrairie, Coleraine, Bovey, Taconite, Marble, Calumet, and Pengilly). If you actually think they are not significantly worse off than Lakeville you need to do some serious research on the economy in Northeast Minnesota. I live in the Metro area and know there is no comparison.
There's no question that average incomes are higher in the Metro. But so are the number of foreclosures...Itasca County has one of the lowest foreclosure rates in the State (3x lower than state average). Dakota County is above the state average, and Lakeville has high rates relative to other cities within Dakota County.
So head counts in youth hockey programs can be impacted on the Range when parents leave to find jobs and take the kids with them (or have fewer kids). But they can also be negatively impacted in the metro area when parents are too worried about paying the mortgage to lay out the cash needed to keep their kids in organized hockey programs.
I never suggested that times were tougher or even as tough in the metro as they are on the range but the effect remains the same, fewer kids putting on skates.