Future of Bloomington Hockey, Jaguars or Eagles, or Bears

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:20 pm

Pay attention Duluth.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:41 pm

wingnuts wrote:
Irish wrote:Let me ask. Who benefits more if they do combine? Jefferson or Kennedy?

Which program is pushing more to combine? Jefferson or Kennedy?

What is the logic behind combining the programs? Let's hope its not about winning.

Jefferson is already competitive in D6.

Kennedy is a weaker program but if you compare Kennedy to every program in the state they're better than majority of programs.

Why do people want to combine the programs?
It's not about what's best for Jefferson or Kennedy. It's about what's best for Hockey in Bloomington. It can't be about anything else but that.

Do your homework, because Jefferson is no longer competitive in D6. Look at all the records of the Jefferson Youth teams. I'm not sure there is one team within the program that has an above .500 record in the conference. To me that is not competitive.

If the kids continue to get beat, they will lose interest and quit. Eventually (which is already happening in Bloomington) kids will not want to play hockey because they look to see how good the program has been and decide to try something different. That is why EVERY kid in Edina wants to play hockey. Placing kids at the appropriate level (even a lower level) will create competitiveness and kids will want to play and develop into better players.

It's time to make a change before its too late!

Let me ask. What is New Prague and Richfield going to do? If we use your logic maybe Richfield can combine with Edina? and New Prague can combine with Prior lake?
Maybe we can give all the Bloomington kids trophys at the end of the season so they come back to play hockey.

Just to let you know. My son plays PWA in D6. Kennedy gave us a great game and Jefferson has beaten us twice. Spare me on Bloomington needs to combine otherwise kids will quit.

Bullseye · Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:13 am

quote="Irish"]Don't combine! If people want to combine the youth program then winning becomes more important than development. Why not field two A teams at every level?

Is winning more important than the opportunity to play on an A team and developing your skills? FYI, neither Jefferson or Kennedy will be winning any state tournaments to soon............

I heard there would be three Kennedy kids that would make the Jefferson PWA team. So that leaves Qty: 13 kids that are currently playing higher level hockey to play on B1 or B2 teams. How is this better? I would rather have my son play up againstand with better players.
To me it sounds as if the Kennedy program is tired of losing. People need to look at the opportunity the kids are getting to play at a higher level. Winning isn't everything.........

Keep in mind there are only so many top programs in the state. If you compare Kennedy to the entire state Kennedy doesn't look that bad. If you compare Kennedy to other D6 teams they don't look that good. Jefferson isn't exactly beating everyone either. Their teams have slowly been declining in the rankings.

Be patient![/quote]

Irish, Thanks for your insight, but to be honest with you I am not sure what you are arguing for or against. What are your numbers at Chaska/Chanhassen mites to bantams, and what is your record PW and Bantams. You quoted in one of your posts that CC has one of the biggest youth associations around. Funny you argue against Bloomington, which is one City combining when your association is a combination of two Cities. Being from Bloomington, you should know the rich history of Bloomington Hockey. From your posts, I gather you have great knowledge of many associations and AAA Hockey clubs and that you also know that Bloomington Hockey is in a decline. I am sure you secretly have a Bloomington Bears sweatshirt in your closet so wouldn’t you think that would be a great name for the two associations joining as one.

Kennedy and Jefferson have been trying to recruit kids every year. They have at least 3 Intro to Hockey Sessions that are free to any kid that wants to try out the sport. Flyers go out to every elementary school with all the info and stressing it is free to come and try. I have been on the ice for many of those in the last 4 years and we usually have a great turn out and actually a handful are very good skaters and not bad with a stick. I talk with those kids and I have heard many times that they are only here because it is free. Their parents won't let them play during the season, but they would love to. As most of us know cost is a huge part. I know there are scholarships for kids who need some assistance but there is only so much money allotted for that and the more that apply the less there is and quite honestly not enough money for those that need it.

If you truly believe that this is just to win, you really don't know of the situation at hand, or you do and are worried that this combo may give your teams stiffer competion. This is an effort to Develop hockey players at the appropriate levels. Both programs are losing kids every year because we can not be competitive at the levels we play. Parents are tired of wasting money. Many this year, opted to take up snowboarding or skiing for less than they spend per year at hockey and play rec. league. This is to be competitive and retain some players that may grow and improve in the next few years and be apart of a High School Hockey team, and not the Ski team.

I too like when my kid plays up, but when you are having to play up 13 kids as you put it, that is a stretch. BTW, looked on the Kennedy PWA website, they only have 14 kids total, so you are saying 93% of the kids are playing up at least one level. That is huge and not many teams can be competitive with those numbers. If either association were fairly competitive, I don't think you would see this. I am not saying winning 80% of the games, I am saying close to 500 and actually giving a good fight. Look at Kennedy PW's. They have an A and a B2. The B2 isn't winning but parents seem to be somewhat happy as they are being competitive and have been in a lot of the games they have played in. Some say it is their best year in many. Wouldn't you agree that the A team would be better off at the B1 level to be competitive.

As far as Richfield, it won’t be long before they need to merge completely with another association. Whether it is with Minneapolis, Edina, or Bloomington. Talking with families from Richfield, they see that things are dwindling and the coop with Kennedy this year has been, for the most part, been great. From the sounds of it, it has also been accepted pretty well with the Kennedy folks.

From the looks on the D6 website, New Prague’s Bantam teams have been doing pretty descent. They have 3 teams, all are being somewhat competitive. The two PW teams are struggling. I don’t believe they had a PW A, last year and wondering if they will next year. Not sure what they have coming up from squirts. It may take them a few more years for more families to move into their area.

This is being discussed by parents from both associations and there are many mite and squirt parents who want this to happen. From the sounds of it, talks are starting amongst some people and board members want to sit down after this year to really talk about it.

57special · Post by **57special** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:46 am

Good points, Bullseye.
Kennedy's PW B2 aren't winning a lot, but almost all of their games are close against the top teams. They are well coached, have a good goalie, and a sound D zone strategy.

Richfield is just sad at this point. I would hope they would merge with someone besides Edina. Do the rich really need to get richer? Either Shakopee or Bloomington would make better sense... Maybe even SLP?

Bullseye · Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:08 am

Hey 57, In your opinion, now if this B2 team had to play up to B1, how do you feel they would compete. Like someone else posted B1 in D6 is like A in other districts.

Getthepuckout! · Post by **Getthepuckout!** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:55 am

Bullseye wrote:Hey 57, In your opinion, now if this B2 team had to play up to B1, how do you feel they would compete. Like someone else posted B1 in D6 is like A in other districts.

Why not ask that question for the 3 Edina, 2 Tonka, 2 EP, and 2 Chaska/Chan teams that are above Kennedy in the standings? Maybe each of these programs could have had 1 more B1 team instead of multiple B2 teams? They all have the depth to be competitive, but it might water down their B1 teams so they aren't the top 4 of 5 teams at the that level.

BenDangle · Post by **BenDangle** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:21 pm

Let's cut to the chase.

90% of Kennedy wants it.
70% of Jefferson wants it.

The 30% of Jefferson who don't want it, went to Jefferson and for the life of them can't fathom playing with Kennedy kids, period.

Until that 30% and the Jefferson head coach get behind this, plus 2 more years of rock bottom...it will happen.

Until then go to the bottom of the D6 standings and you will find the 5th largest city in MN represented.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:32 pm

the Jefferson head coach

Has nothing to do with the Jefferson coach and can't. Youth hockey associatons have nothing to do with high schools. Two entirely seperate organizations. Youth Hockey Associations are to develop youth hockey players regardless of where they go to high school.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:47 pm

observer wrote:
the Jefferson head coach
Has nothing to do with the Jefferson coach and can't. Youth hockey associations have nothing to do with high schools. Two entirely separate organizations. Youth Hockey Associations are to develop youth hockey players regardless of where they go to high school.

While you're right, it has nothing to do with him, his support would be a huge help to making it happen. And I think (my opinion here) the most successful programs always have a Varsity Coach that's involved all the way from top to bottom.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:10 pm

always have a Varsity Coach that's involved

Or, a few.

There are really only a handful of Youth Hockey Associations based where there's more than one high school so in most instances you're correct.

My point is the decision needs to be based on what's best for the Youth Association and all the youth hockey players in the community. I think what Youth Associations like Highland-Central, in St. Paul, and Minneapolis find is they want relationships, and assistance, where appropriate and without favoritism, from any of the high school coaches in their community. But the decisions are made by the Youth Association board without a lot of input from any of the potentially several coaches that attract players to their schools from that community.

So, I believe, decisions about what is best for youth players in Bloomington need to be made by Youth Association members and not influenced by outside forces. Develop more and better hockey players and wish them all the best wherever they decide to attend high school. With more players the communities don't need to fret over every single family and player that decides to take their education elsewhere. Edina, Wayzata, and others lose players and all they do is plug in another and move on.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:23 pm

observer wrote: Or, a few.

There are really only a handful of Youth Hockey Associations based where there's more than one high school so in most instances you're correct.

My point is the decision needs to be based on what's best for the Youth Association and all the youth hockey players in the community. I think what Youth Associations like Highland-Central, in St. Paul, and Minneapolis find is they want relationships, and assistance, where appropriate and without favoritism, from any of the high school coaches in their community. But the decisions are made by the Youth Association board without a lot of input from any of the potentially several coaches that attract players to their schools from that community.

So, I believe, decisions about what is best for youth players in Bloomington need to be made by Youth Association members and not influenced by outside forces. Develop more and better hockey players and wish them all the best wherever they decide to attend high school. With more players the communities don't need to fret over every single family and player that decides to take their education elsewhere. Edina, Wayzata, and others lose players and all they do is plug in another and move on.

I guess I think back to Saterdalen at JHS...when he used to be on the ice sometimes at squirt and peewee and bantam practices...knew quite a few of the kids names...made sure the coaches weren't parents and that they knew what he expected.

Don't get me wrong, he had some great players come through there but I think his involvement also played a part in his success.

Yes the 2 programs (youth and HS) are separate, but I see how a connection can be helpful. What benefits the kids can only help the HS I would think.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:16 pm

What benefits the kids can only help the HS I would think.

The high schools. Plural.

The Kennedy coach is just as important as the Jefferson coach. They're equal. The other communities I can think of in the same boat, or similar, are; Duluth (2 public high schools), St. Cloud (2 public high schools) and Rochester (3 public high schools). One single youth association serving more than a single public high school within their borders. Are there other Youth Hockey Association communities serving more than 1 public high school hockey team? (Set St. Paul's 2 Youth Associations Johnson/Como and Highland-Central aside for the purpose of this discussion.) Lakeville is different too as they have a single youth association but have divided it along school lines. I'm sure these 4 cities are getting tougher on school borders because they can't afford to have one outdraw the other in terms of popularity and quality of programs or they have big problems bringing them back to equal.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:30 pm

observer wrote:
The high schools. Plural.

The Kennedy coach is just as important as the Jefferson coach. They're equal.

You misunderstood what I was trying to say...probably my fault. Anyway, I think I've said all that's worth saying on this. Good luck to everyone trying to improve their hockey program and by extension their community!

puckbunny · Post by **puckbunny** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:12 pm

Look at Rochester folks. Competitive youth A teams because city is combined for RYHA, then the high schools are weak because the players split up 4 ways or the ones that can afford it go to Lourdes. The youth programs need to be seperate to build solid teams all the way through high school. Bottom up program building, numbers building, with support from the head Varsity coaches is what is needed. Stay seperate Bloomington. Tom Saterdalen was asked years ago about how to build Rochester's program and he said it was key to have seperate strong youth hockey development for each of the public high schools. I think Tom was right and his experience, knowledge, and success speak for themselves.

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:30 am

puckbunny wrote:Look at Rochester folks. Competitive youth A teams because city is combined for RYHA, then the high schools are weak because the players split up 4 ways or the ones that can afford it go to Lourdes. The youth programs need to be seperate to build solid teams all the way through high school. Bottom up program building, numbers building, with support from the head Varsity coaches is what is needed. Stay seperate Bloomington. Tom Saterdalen was asked years ago about how to build Rochester's program and he said it was key to have seperate strong youth hockey development for each of the public high schools. I think Tom was right and his experience, knowledge, and success speak for themselves.

OK, I lied, I'm not quite done with this thread. I think Tom is right about Rochester. Bloomington, however, IS NOT Rochester and the same thing that will work there, (or Roseau, or Lakeville, or a lot of other places) won't work in Bloomington.

Sorry for being a liar.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:38 pm

It will be interesting to see what Bloomington decides. I sure hope if they do combine it's for the right reasons.
Lets hope people don't want to combine only to better their chances for victories.

Remember: Hockey is a marathon not a sprint.

57special · Post by **57special** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:29 pm

Bullseye,
Kennedy would get killed. They aren't winning right now against the B2 Edinas, Tonkas, EP's, CC's but they are keeping it close and not getting blown out, unlike some of the other less talented teams.

Bullseye wrote:Hey 57, In your opinion, now if this B2 team had to play up to B1, how do you feel they would compete. Like someone else posted B1 in D6 is like A in other districts.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:20 pm

When Kennedy and Jefferson combine. What will their new colors be?

Colors: Green/Gold
Nickname: Bloomington Bears

Defensive Zone · Post by **Defensive Zone** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:24 am

observer wrote:
What benefits the kids can only help the HS I would think.
The high schools. Plural.

The Kennedy coach is just as important as the Jefferson coach. They're equal. The other communities I can think of in the same boat, or similar, are; Duluth (2 public high schools), St. Cloud (2 public high schools) and Rochester (3 public high schools). One single youth association serving more than a single public high school within their borders. Are there other Youth Hockey Association communities serving more than 1 public high school hockey team? (Set St. Paul's 2 Youth Associations Johnson/Como and Highland-Central aside for the purpose of this discussion.) Lakeville is different too as they have a single youth association but have divided it along school lines. I'm sure these 4 cities are getting tougher on school borders because they can't afford to have one outdraw the other in terms of popularity and quality of programs or they have big problems bringing them back to equal.

Interesting article about Chanhassen/Chaska Coop HS girls program. You kind of wonder if it/could happen to more programs either association based or high school.

Controversial girls hockey co-op makes waves in Missota Conference

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/storie ... id=1486216

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:16 am

Defensive Zone wrote:
observer wrote:
What benefits the kids can only help the HS I would think.
The high schools. Plural.

The Kennedy coach is just as important as the Jefferson coach. They're equal. The other communities I can think of in the same boat, or similar, are; Duluth (2 public high schools), St. Cloud (2 public high schools) and Rochester (3 public high schools). One single youth association serving more than a single public high school within their borders. Are there other Youth Hockey Association communities serving more than 1 public high school hockey team? (Set St. Paul's 2 Youth Associations Johnson/Como and Highland-Central aside for the purpose of this discussion.) Lakeville is different too as they have a single youth association but have divided it along school lines. I'm sure these 4 cities are getting tougher on school borders because they can't afford to have one outdraw the other in terms of popularity and quality of programs or they have big problems bringing them back to equal.
Interesting article about Chanhassen/Chaska Coop HS girls program. You kind of wonder if it/could happen to more programs either association based or high school.

Controversial girls hockey co-op makes waves in Missota Conference

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/storie ... id=1486216

D-Zone - Agreed! Split them up. In fact, split the youth association by high school boundaries. This will allow the high school coaches to actually work with the youth coaches in regards to development.

Currently it should be called the CCCEV youth hockey association Chanhassen/Chaska/Carver/East Union/Victoria Split them up by high school boundaries. Not sure why they call it Chaska/Chanhassen? What about Carver - East Union - Victoria? majority of the players come from Chanhassen and Victoria.

Sweet Dreams · Post by **Sweet Dreams** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:38 am

Irish, Should the boys be split also then. How many kids from each area on your PWA team there at CC. I bet D6 would nix that idea as you know it would knock there status. They would love to see Jefferson and Kennedy combine as it would give them a little stronger of a team.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Sweet Dreams wrote:Irish, Should the boys be split also then. How many kids from each area on your PWA team there at CC. I bet D6 would nix that idea as you know it would knock there status. They would love to see Jefferson and Kennedy combine as it would give them a little stronger of a team.

SD- If you're talking boys high school they are already split. Chanhassen is in first place in the Missota conference. Chaska isn't doing so good. I believe six players from Chaska open enrolled to Chahassen to play hockey.
If you're talking youth. I feel each high school should have their own association. Once again my feelings. People will argue that Chaska will be another Kennedy or worse. As majority of the skaters in the CCHA live in Chanhassen or Victoria.

What_Doing · Post by **What_Doing** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:15 am

May we please get back to the point of this Thread.

What should be done with Bloomington Hockey? What should be done between Kennedy and Richfield? Why can't Bloomington Hockey be run like Bloomington Lax or Traveling Basball, or Fast Pitch? Please explain to me why we need 4 Boards ruling Bloomington Hockey when 1 would suffice.

I understand the Jaguar Pride and the Love of the Eagle, but should the betterment of the kids be put before an adults ego?

Night Train · Post by **Night Train** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:38 am

What should be done with Bloomington Hockey?

Starts with the two Presidents agreeing to the idea.

Co-op the two Bloomington Youth Associations ASAP. Formal merger comes later.

Develop a new brand. I liked the Bloomington Bears idea.

You will immediately have more kids skating at the correct level.

More and better volunteers.

More community excitement.

Easier and better recruiting with a joint effort.

Better and more successful fundraising as there won't be confusion about where anyone lives or goes to school currently (future doesn't matter). A single fundraising goal, support Bloomington Youth Hockey.

BloomingtonBears · Post by **BloomingtonBears** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:20 pm

I definitely feel this needs to be pursued further...So what are the next steps? Anyone want to meet at Bakers Square some night and get the dialog going in person? Would be nice if some people from both sides of town could coordinate working with their boards to get this moving. I believe that many on the boards do not want to undertake the task, not because they are against it but perhaps overwhelmed by the challenge that the discussion brings up. PM if you want to setup a meeting sometime.