Select 15 invites

[muckandgrind]

Great..... another situation where butt kissing weasels lobby to get their kids opportunity over better skilled kids.

Where is the process of the best, hardest working players being recognized for nothing more then their talent and attitude? What is so hard about a fair process based on a fair tryout that searches for the best players?

The only people claiming this process isn't "fair" are most likely parents of kids who were not invited. Is the process perfect? No, no process will ever be perfect. But anyone who has spent any time watching the Select 15s in action knows that the best players are usually there.. I don't believe that I've ever seen a elite-level player who has not been invited to tryout for a 15 team.

There must be plenty if it goes by number of invites by where you sit in the standings....

I disagree.....a team that finishes low in the standings probably won't have more than 1 or 2 "elite-level" players at the most, anyways (if even that). There is a chance that the top team might have a "bubble" kid that doesn't get the invite, but the chances of that kid making it to St Cloud or Lake Placid is very remote.

I'll stand my take that when you look at the "elite" HS players (D1 scholarship), there were very few of them that did not at least make it to St Cloud at the 15's due to not being invited to tryout.

In fact, let me ask the question...does anyone know of any player in the past 5 years who has been awarded a D1 scholarship who did NOT get invited to tryout for the 15's?

[MrBoDangles]

The only people claiming this process isn't "fair" are most likely parents of kids who were not invited. Is the process perfect? No, no process will ever be perfect. But anyone who has spent any time watching the Select 15s in action knows that the best players are usually there.. I don't believe that I've ever seen a elite-level player who has not been invited to tryout for a 15 team.

There must be plenty if it goes by number of invites by where you sit in the standings....

I disagree.....a team that finishes low in the standings probably won't have more than 1 or 2 "elite-level" players at the most, anyways (if even that). There is a chance that the top team might have a "bubble" kid that doesn't get the invite, but the chances of that kid making it to St Cloud or Lake Placid is very remote.

I'll stand my take that when you look at the "elite" HS players (D1 scholarship), there were very few of them that did not at least make it to St Cloud at the 15's due to not being invited to tryout.

In fact, let me ask the question...does anyone know of any player in the past 5 years who has been awarded a D1 scholarship who did NOT get invited to tryout for the 15's?

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.

Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

[muckandgrind]

There must be plenty if it goes by number of invites by where you sit in the standings....

I disagree.....a team that finishes low in the standings probably won't have more than 1 or 2 "elite-level" players at the most, anyways (if even that). There is a chance that the top team might have a "bubble" kid that doesn't get the invite, but the chances of that kid making it to St Cloud or Lake Placid is very remote.

I'll stand my take that when you look at the "elite" HS players (D1 scholarship), there were very few of them that did not at least make it to St Cloud at the 15's due to not being invited to tryout.

In fact, let me ask the question...does anyone know of any player in the past 5 years who has been awarded a D1 scholarship who did NOT get invited to tryout for the 15's?

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

[MrBoDangles]

I disagree.....a team that finishes low in the standings probably won't have more than 1 or 2 "elite-level" players at the most, anyways (if even that). There is a chance that the top team might have a "bubble" kid that doesn't get the invite, but the chances of that kid making it to St Cloud or Lake Placid is very remote.

I'll stand my take that when you look at the "elite" HS players (D1 scholarship), there were very few of them that did not at least make it to St Cloud at the 15's due to not being invited to tryout.

In fact, let me ask the question...does anyone know of any player in the past 5 years who has been awarded a D1 scholarship who did NOT get invited to tryout for the 15's?

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

So you're saying it's fine that they're missed if they're not New York caliber?

How easily could Miska have been passed by. Good thing he had a wheeler-dealer high school coach, at the time, to get him a shot..

[muckandgrind]

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

So you're saying it's fine that they're missed if they're not New York caliber?
How easily could Miska have been passed by. Good thing he had a wheeler-dealer high school coach, at the time, to get him a shot..

Actually, yes. Because the ultimate goal is to pick a team to send to New York. But like I said, I doubt that there are very many kids that are St Cloud-calibre that are missed in this process, let alone New York-calibre.

ALL players need their high school or Bantam coach to give them a shot at the 15's.....and Miska's name was already well known among those who follow the elite players, he didn't need a "wheeler-dealer" to get his name out there.

[MrBoDangles]

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

So you're saying it's fine that they're missed if they're not New York caliber?
How easily could Miska have been passed by. Good thing he had a wheeler-dealer high school coach, at the time, to get him a shot..

Actually, yes. Because the ultimate goal is to pick a team to send to New York. But like I said, I doubt that there are very many kids that are St Cloud-calibre that are missed in this process, let alone New York-calibre.

ALL players need their high school coach to give them a shot at the 15's.....and Miska's name was already well known among those who follow the elite players, he didn't need a "wheeler-dealer" to get his name out there.

There is a much better way than giving more tryout spots to who is highest in the district standings.

It was Miska's first year ever playing goalie. The family said he really went to bat for him. Might have, might not have made a difference.

[muckandgrind]

So you're saying it's fine that they're missed if they're not New York caliber?
How easily could Miska have been passed by. Good thing he had a wheeler-dealer high school coach, at the time, to get him a shot..

Actually, yes. Because the ultimate goal is to pick a team to send to New York. But like I said, I doubt that there are very many kids that are St Cloud-calibre that are missed in this process, let alone New York-calibre.

ALL players need their high school coach to give them a shot at the 15's.....and Miska's name was already well known among those who follow the elite players, he didn't need a "wheeler-dealer" to get his name out there.

There is a much better way than giving more tryout spots to who is highest in the district standings.

It was Miska's first year ever playing goalie. The family said he really went to bat for him. Might have, might not have made a difference.

And what would that be?

[MrBoDangles]

Actually, yes. Because the ultimate goal is to pick a team to send to New York. But like I said, I doubt that there are very many kids that are St Cloud-calibre that are missed in this process, let alone New York-calibre.

ALL players need their high school coach to give them a shot at the 15's.....and Miska's name was already well known among those who follow the elite players, he didn't need a "wheeler-dealer" to get his name out there.

There is a much better way than giving more tryout spots to who is highest in the district standings.

It was Miska's first year ever playing goalie. The family said he really went to bat for him. Might have, might not have made a difference.

And what would that be?

Give the spots to the best players............?

[puckstopper33]

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the players that will be at the district tryouts? or is that not available yet?

[greybeard58]

In the association that does not have an A Bantam team usually that elite player is on the Varsity or JV and the High school coach can nominate and get an invite for that player. If no recommendation from the High school coach do not blame either Mn Hockey or the District.
Going back quite a few years when a team has placed on the bottom on occasion one out of the 2 allotted players makes the first level and some have also made it to St Cloud, remember we are talking about skaters being invited goalies have the open invite if a coach chooses to send them.

[MrBoDangles]

In the association that does not have an A Bantam team usually that elite player is on the Varsity or JV and the High school coach can nominate and get an invite for that player. If no recommendation from the High school coach do not blame either Mn Hockey or the District.
Going back quite a few years when a team has placed on the bottom on occasion one out of the 2 allotted players makes the first level and some have also made it to St Cloud, remember we are talking about skaters being invited goalies have the open invite if a coach chooses to send them.

The Cambridge crew left and the accolades quickly came by the bucket full. Never would of happened at CI

Enough said..

[muckandgrind]

There is a much better way than giving more tryout spots to who is highest in the district standings.

It was Miska's first year ever playing goalie. The family said he really went to bat for him. Might have, might not have made a difference.

And what would that be?

Give the spots to the best players............?

And who determines the best players? You gotta remember that there are only so many players that can be on the ice for the initial District tryouts. You just can't have each coach sending as many players as they want.

[old goalie85]

In D2 the WBL coach, Who else????

[D3 Fan]

Someone had said that each associations ranks their best 1997 born players and then nominates their top players, based on how many slots they get allocated, usually based on Bantam A record.

So if an association does not have a Bantam A team, the Bantam B1 coach can not nominate anyone for HP 15?

Can nominees only come from the Bantam A team? What if you had the situation where all Bantam A players were 2nd year players and they were 1996 birth years. Or what if you had a 1997 kid on the B1 team who turned out to be every bit the player that the 1997s on the A team were, dispite the tryout results from way back in Sept?

My guess is that there has to be some coach/assocation/district discretion involved. If a coach, with a proven track record, is willing to endorse a player from a B1 team, I bet it can happen.

[muckandgrind]

Someone had said that each associations ranks their best 1997 born players and then nominates their top players, based on how many slots they get allocated, usually based on Bantam A record.

So if an association does not have a Bantam A team, the Bantam B1 coach can not nominate anyone for HP 15?

Can nominees only come from the Bantam A team? What if you had the situation where all Bantam A players were 2nd year players and they were 1996 birth years. Or what if you had a 1997 kid on the B1 team who turned out to be every bit the player that the 1997s on the A team were, dispite the tryout results from way back in Sept?

My guess is that there has to be some coach/assocation/district discretion involved. If a coach, with a proven track record, is willing to endorse a player from a B1 team, I bet it can happen.

Depends on the District. I know that District 10 will only allow Bantam A players to tryout for the Select 15's....some smaller Districts have been known to allow B1 players.

You need to remember that you have to limit the # of players on the ice. You can't have ~70 players on one sheet of ice trying out.

[Outoftowner]

I disagree.....a team that finishes low in the standings probably won't have more than 1 or 2 "elite-level" players at the most, anyways (if even that). There is a chance that the top team might have a "bubble" kid that doesn't get the invite, but the chances of that kid making it to St Cloud or Lake Placid is very remote.

I'll stand my take that when you look at the "elite" HS players (D1 scholarship), there were very few of them that did not at least make it to St Cloud at the 15's due to not being invited to tryout.

In fact, let me ask the question...does anyone know of any player in the past 5 years who has been awarded a D1 scholarship who did NOT get invited to tryout for the 15's?

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

Waiver outs are not that easy if your association won't "release" you.

[Outoftowner]

Someone had said that each associations ranks their best 1997 born players and then nominates their top players, based on how many slots they get allocated, usually based on Bantam A record.

So if an association does not have a Bantam A team, the Bantam B1 coach can not nominate anyone for HP 15?

Can nominees only come from the Bantam A team? What if you had the situation where all Bantam A players were 2nd year players and they were 1996 birth years. Or what if you had a 1997 kid on the B1 team who turned out to be every bit the player that the 1997s on the A team were, dispite the tryout results from way back in Sept?

My guess is that there has to be some coach/assocation/district discretion involved. If a coach, with a proven track record, is willing to endorse a player from a B1 team, I bet it can happen.

Depends on the District. I know that District 10 will only allow Bantam A players to tryout for the Select 15's....some smaller Districts have been known to allow B1 players.

You need to remember that you have to limit the # of players on the ice. You can't have ~70 players on one sheet of ice trying out.

You can't have two sessions to ensure all the potential players are seen? Why not?

[Outoftowner]

There is a much better way than giving more tryout spots to who is highest in the district standings.

It was Miska's first year ever playing goalie. The family said he really went to bat for him. Might have, might not have made a difference.

And what would that be?

Give the spots to the best players............?

That's too crazy and logical... it will never work.

[muckandgrind]

Much harder for a small association kid to get noticed. A 15 invite could put them on the radar/map.Cisar has become a blip on the radar now from scoring a s - load of points. How about the smooth skating - both way player that doesn't put up huge numbers?

There's a low in the district standings Peewee team that has five(way better head to head) players that would outplay the #1 team. The team just lacks depth. You won't get the better players if the #1 team has six slots and the other has two. What kids are more likely to fade away?

Remember Heinrich and the boys?

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

Waiver outs are not that easy if your association won't "release" you.

Most associations that I'm aware of will allow a player to waive out and try out for another association if:

1) Their home association won't ice an "A" team, AND
2) The receiving association allows that player to tryout for their "A" team.

If your association is one of the very few that might not allow that....than I would bring it up at the next Board meeting.

[muckandgrind]

Someone had said that each associations ranks their best 1997 born players and then nominates their top players, based on how many slots they get allocated, usually based on Bantam A record.

So if an association does not have a Bantam A team, the Bantam B1 coach can not nominate anyone for HP 15?

Can nominees only come from the Bantam A team? What if you had the situation where all Bantam A players were 2nd year players and they were 1996 birth years. Or what if you had a 1997 kid on the B1 team who turned out to be every bit the player that the 1997s on the A team were, dispite the tryout results from way back in Sept?

My guess is that there has to be some coach/assocation/district discretion involved. If a coach, with a proven track record, is willing to endorse a player from a B1 team, I bet it can happen.

Depends on the District. I know that District 10 will only allow Bantam A players to tryout for the Select 15's....some smaller Districts have been known to allow B1 players.

You need to remember that you have to limit the # of players on the ice. You can't have ~70 players on one sheet of ice trying out.

You can't have two sessions to ensure all the potential players are seen? Why not?

Because it's not realistic and it's not necessary. I've yet to hear of an elite player not invited to tryout for the 15's. There might be a player who loses out on the opportunity to advance to New Hope, but even those situations are not common enough to change the way things are done.

You can bee-atch all you want, but the process is what it is. If it bothers you so much, show up to the next District meeting and complain.

[Outoftowner]

Truly "elite" players will get noticed no matter where they play....and if a Bantam A team has more than 3 truly elite-calibre players, then they probably don't finish near the bottom of the standings.

I've been following the Select 15 program for quite a few years now, and I think they pretty much get it right.

Sure, there might be a deserving kid or two that won't have the opportunity to play at the New Hope festival due to where their team finished...but I doubt that a kid that would've made it St Cloud was missed, and I HIGHLY doubt that a kid that was good enough to make it to Lake Placid was missed.

The only way I see that happening is if that player's association doesn't have an "A" team due to size of the program...but those are the breaks...that player probably couldv'e had the opportunity to waive out and try out for an "A" team in another association if it was that important to them.

Waiver outs are not that easy if your association won't "release" you.

Most associations that I'm aware of will allow a player to waive out and try out for another association if:

1) Their home association won't ice an "A" team, AND
2) The receiving association allows that player to tryout for their "A" team.

If your association is one of the very few that might not allow that....than I would bring it up at the next Board meeting.

D5 forces associations to have an "A" team if you have enough kids to have two teams. It doesn't matter if you have only one "A" quality player they still force an A team. It doesn't matter if you get crushed every year and most every game and the team sucks.

The process as it has been explained to me is as follows:
1) home association must release you.
2) receiving association must accept you.
3) District Director must approve it and it is the sole discretion of the director.

The association has told us:
1) We have an A team for your kid to play on. ( it is not required for them to have A quality players)
2) Because we have an "A" team, your kid has the opportunity to play at the highest level so the D5 director will not approve it.


The non-verbals that I'm also hearing are:
1) We can keep sucking and expect your kid to score all the goals, therefore we will not release you. If you want to play winter hockey you must play it here.
2) We have the power over what you and your family do as it concerns hockey in MN. MN and D5 have given us this authority and we have no accountability to provide the proper hockey experience for every kid and there is nothing you can do about it if you want to play winter hockey.



TO be fair, they offered to let my 85lb peewee waiver up to bantams and tryout of the Bantam A team. ( Apparently no concern for his personal safety)


They are unwilling to let us leave to find more appropriate hockey that fits.

Then there is the open enrollment issue. My kid loves hockey AND has a lot of friends in his school. It is a huge decision to actually open enroll him in another school district just to play hockey.

We just want good/fair hockey that best matches his interest and ability.
Its amazing to me that all this bs is so a kid can play a game, have fun and develop into the best possible player.


My whole point of this is to say that good hockey players get lost in the current MN hockey structure. Anything that limits the ability and opportunities of players like this current structure, limits Mn hockey from developing ALL of the potentially great players.

Another problem I can see with this system is a coach NOT nominating a player that is better then his kid out of pure competitive jealousy.

[Outoftowner]

Depends on the District. I know that District 10 will only allow Bantam A players to tryout for the Select 15's....some smaller Districts have been known to allow B1 players.

You need to remember that you have to limit the # of players on the ice. You can't have ~70 players on one sheet of ice trying out.

You can't have two sessions to ensure all the potential players are seen? Why not?

Because it's not realistic and it's not necessary. I've yet to hear of an elite player not invited to tryout for the 15's. There might be a player who loses out on the opportunity to advance to New Hope, but even those situations are not common enough to change the way things are done.

You can bee-atch all you want, but the process is what it is. If it bothers you so much, show up to the next District meeting and complain.

I didn't realize that what I was doing was "bee-atching".
This thread is about Select 15 invites, its process and of course its potential problems. I thought I was engaging in discussion.

You seem pretty sure that ALL the best players are getting the opportunity in spite of recognizing the potential problems. How can that be?

Or are you aware of the potential problems and just don't really care?

[muckandgrind]

Outoftowner-

There is no perfect solution. The very nature of tryouts requires subjective analysis. Biases will always play a part.

That being said, I've been following the Select 15's for quite a few years, and I have to say that they do a very good job of selecting the right players. Is it possible that a "bubble" player gets lost in the shuffle and misses out on an opportunity to play in the New Hope Festival? Sure. But the chances of a player who is worthy to move on from New Hope being lost in the shuffle is pretty small as those players generally fit that "elite" category.

If your son is one of those that gets missed due to the team he plays on at the youth level...don't fret. He'll have another opportunity to try out for the 16's the next year. Elite players always get noticed no matter where they play. The hockey community is very small, there are very few "hidden gems" out there. If your player is good enough, he'll get his opportunity.

[MrBoDangles]

In D2 the WBL coach, Who else????

Standings from a deeper 2nd and 3rd line will allot them more slots......

The top six on each team means nothing from what I hear.

[old goalie85]

CJ got skipped as a 15/went all the way to st.cloud as a 16. Skoog skipped as 15 /NY as 16,Kohls /I waiting for a call back to confirm.[By getting skipped I mean "not good enough for the WBL coach"!!!