Minnesota Goalies

[hemiman]

One thing I noticed recently, the finalist for Ms. Hockey, the skaters all had D-1 schools next to them, while the goalie finalists either had none or D-3 schools listed.(certainly nothing wrong w/ D-3)
But being the state of hockey why isn't Minnesota producing more top level goalies. We don't seem to be sending them to the national teams or having much success at the D-1 level ( I apologize to the few who are having or have had nice careers at the D-1 level)
Are we buying into over-inflated stats, and promoting the wrong girls? The last 2 Ms. goalies have had some strong D in front of them. I don't know, I would like to here what the board has to say.

[ghshockeyfan]

I think it has something to do with the % of players at this position that are represented:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=9

I still wonder when we will pick a Ms G, Ms F, and Ms D and then allow these three to be considered for "Ms Hockey"

120 teams in the state, 17 players per team (9F, 6D, 2G), assume even distribution @ each class (i.e. 25% 9th, 25% 10th, 25% 11th, 25% 12th)...

120 teams * 9F/team = 1080 * .25 = 270 Senior Forwards
120 teams * 6D/team = 720 * .25 = 180 Senior Defense

=> 450 D & F candidates for "Ms Hockey"

120 teams * 2G/team = 240 * .25 = 60 Senior Goalies

=> 60 candidates for "Ms Goalie"

I know, I know not every team is equal distribution of players per grade, some have 7th/8th graders, many don't carry/use three full lines/sets of D, some have only 1 goalie, some have 3, etc., etc. It's an average & rough estimate...

Bottom line is that 2.2% of Sr D&F (10 of 450) are finalists for Ms Hockey, 16.7% of Sr G (10 of 60) are finalists for Ms G.

What bothers me most is that 0% of Sr G are candidates for "Ms Hockey" and D are typically severely underrepresented in the Ms Hockey group.

[MinnGirlsHockey]

One thing I noticed recently, the finalist for Ms. Hockey, the skaters all had D-1 schools next to them, while the goalie finalists either had none or D-3 schools listed.(certainly nothing wrong w/ D-3)

Finalist School W-L-T GAA SV% SO College
Erika Allen Roseville Area 16-2-1 0.91 .956 9 Bethel
Madeleine Dahl Edina 15-4-6 1.57 .925 4 Union
Madison Denny Andover 15-8-0 1.27 .945 5 TBD
Gillian McDonald Irondale 18-4-2 1.29 .933 7 UW-River Falls
Taylor Neisen Breck 18-2-1 1.56 .945 5 TBD

Union is D-1 and two are still undecided. I believe the other two who chose D-3 schools could've played D-1 somewhere if they really wanted to, but probably had their own good reasons for their decisions.

But there are also a very limited number of open D-1 roster spots year-to-year for goalies vs. forwards/defense.

[royals dad]

I looked at the lists and it looks like MN has two goalies going D1 so far this year. There are 16 Goalies committed to D1 programs at this point, of those 7 are from Canada, 1 from Sweden, 1 NY, 1 CA, 2 TX, 1 IL, 1 PA, and the 2 from MN. Should note that some of the Canadians might be older than the HS girls, I have noticed that in past years. I think the total number is pretty average (might be a few more added before all is done), the number from MN might be slightly lower than normal.

The Gophers and Bulldogs are adding 2 Canadians and a Swede. Both the MN goalies are going to east coast schools. I believe at least a couple Minnesota goalies this year and last year have decided to play D3 instead of D1. The ones I knew of chose to stay closer to home rather than to play at an East Coast school. I'm not really sure how many top WCHA teams are adding 18 year old American goalies. That doesn't leave many options for going to school within driving distance.

[DANCINHOCKEYDAD]

I agree with Royals Dad, I know of at least one goalie from last year could played Division 1 hockey for some teams out east. She opted for a Division3 school that was closer to home. She did not want to go far away. She picked a school where they had what she wanted as far as her education goes.

[Marty]

And what specifically does playing D1 hockey bring to most young ladies ? Maybe a better chance to coach at a higher level and a very, very remote chance at the Olympic Team.

Do most young men that reach D1 hockey same their dream is realized or is the goal ultimately still the NHL ?

Play where the education prepares you for what you want to do the rest of your life.

[MinnGirlsHockey]

And what specifically does playing D1 hockey bring to most young ladies ? Maybe a better chance to coach at a higher level and a very, very remote chance at the Olympic Team.

Do most young men that reach D1 hockey same their dream is realized or is the goal ultimately still the NHL ?

Play where the education prepares you for what you want to do the rest of your life.

Speaking as a high school parent, the athletic scholarship is a pretty nice bonus for going D1 (as opposed to D3). Although I don't think there are a ton of D1 "full rides" any more...I've heard many are half- or partial scholarships these days.

[Goalie Dad]

Look like it's still down from last year's class of 6/7.

Friend is getting playing time at St Cloud and a few more seem to be positioned to eventually take the reigns.

[inthestands]

And what specifically does playing D1 hockey bring to most young ladies ? Maybe a better chance to coach at a higher level and a very, very remote chance at the Olympic Team.

Do most young men that reach D1 hockey same their dream is realized or is the goal ultimately still the NHL ?

Play where the education prepares you for what you want to do the rest of your life.

Speaking as a high school parent, the athletic scholarship is a pretty nice bonus for going D1 (as opposed to D3). Although I don't think there are a ton of D1 "full rides" any more...I've heard many are half- or partial scholarships these days.

The other side of that nice athletic scholarship is, the school basically "owns" the player and directs all in season and out of season activity.

While a partial D1 scholarship is great, the D3 academic scholarship can be very similar with no hold on the player.

[royals dad]

And what specifically does playing D1 hockey bring to most young ladies ?

1. It can open doors, there are girls who have a chance to choose between some of the best schools in the country who with out hockey would not be accepted to those schools.

2. If you love the game it is a chance to play it at a higher level, D1 or D3. Not easy, lots of hard work, hard to juggle with studies, but still lacing up the skates for a few more years against the best of the best.

3. Being a college athlete can be a great time in your life. I wish I could turn back the clock and relive those days. Some great times, friends, and memories.

4. The financial burden or your parents might be less. It may be access to scholarships or even an on campus job. Athletes at many schools get inside tracks that not everyone has. Sometimes just by having a coach or upperclassman help you navigate. Full ride or not every penny counts for most of the people these days.

It is foolish to think that families don't put any thought into these decisions, of course most of these girls look for a place where they can get a great education. You don't think they go visit the schools? You don't think they look at what majors are available? How many non hockey parents would kill to have letters from Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, RPI, and Princeton show up in their kids mail.

[drop the puck]

1. It can open doors, there are girls who have a chance to choose between some of the best schools in the country who with out hockey would not be accepted to those schools.

How many ladies actually go to Cornell, Darmouth, Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Brown ?

Not sure these schools have the same scholarship programs as other "big" D1 schools either.

[royals dad]

1. It can open doors, there are girls who have a chance to choose between some of the best schools in the country who with out hockey would not be accepted to those schools.

How many ladies actually go to Cornell, Darmouth, Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Brown ?

Not sure these schools have the same scholarship programs as other "big" D1 schools either.

They all have 5 or 6 comits this year, I think all have girls from MN on their rosters. From what I understand the Ivy League does not do athletic scholarships but most have large endowments that cover tuition for those accepted to the school but with parents below income thresholds. I knew players (not Goalies) that had official visits or contacts from all of the above schools this year which is why I listed them.

I know a MN goalie that went to Harvard last year. Hopkins has players committed this year to Brown and RPI, both are very gifted in the classroom as well as the ice. I think the opportunities are out there for the top goalies from Minnesota but as I said most of those opportunities are on the East Coast. A good GPA and ACT, then strong showings at the HP Camps, and tourneys like NAHA will get them on the radar of those schools.

My point on the topic of the thread was that I believe Minnesota is not that behind in developing top level goalies but that there is more to it then just who is going to a D1 school and who is going D3.

[OntheEdge]

1. It can open doors, there are girls who have a chance to choose between some of the best schools in the country who with out hockey would not be accepted to those schools.

How many ladies actually go to Cornell, Darmouth, Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Brown ?

Not sure these schools have the same scholarship programs as other "big" D1 schools either.

The Ivy League does not allow their members to give athletic scholarships. Their schools have large endowments and, in general, help many of their students with tuition but it is needs based only. Each Ivy League school has its own needs based program. Some schools are more generous than others.

Another interesting thing about the Ivies is that they have what is called the Academic Index (AI). While I'm not entirely sure how it works at each school, the premise is that incoming athletes of each team should have a team AI score which is similar to the AI score of the rest of the incoming class. The AI is a score calculated from a formula using GPA and ACT/SAT scores. Overall, girls with good academics have a better chance of getting into an Ivy League school and there is a minimum threshold that each student/athlete must meet. However there can be a little gamesmanship here. Sometimes a school may take a player that isn't a superstar because she has an extremely high AI score so they can get an extremely talented player with a lower AI score. The scores are averaged. Its difficult to know what is the minimum threshold. One coach told me they needed a minimum ACT of 27 and GPA of 3.7 which I assumed was the minimum for a top player but I've heard of girls getting in with ACT scores of 25 or 26. I think that if they want you bad enough they will work hard to get you in provided that you have reasonably good scores.

[goalzilla]

Lived this with a Daughter and a son. Its a rarity if you find a program with a coach that understands the importance of a goalie. Think about it if you have 5 people on the ice who are perfect you wouldnt need one! However is you have a goalie that can stand on their head they can make up for a lot of those imperfections. In reality, there are few programs that have the ability or are interested in providing the goalie with proper direction. Watch a practice or even a warm up and the majority of times you will just see a barage of random shots being thrown at a goalie. Even at practices the goalie in most cases is the equivilant of a practice dummy. They need to have individualized coaching on angles, crease coverage, blocker and glove use as well as drills specific to their craft developing senses and reflexes. This does not happen the majority of times. the focus of practice is on the other 18 skaters with maybe 15 minutes thrown in for the goalies. in most cases the coach that works with the goalies played some other sport or non at all with no direct knowledge of the position or training. As a parent of goalies its usually left up to you if your player wants to progress. First of all the equipment cost dwarfs that of a skater, then the additional training/coaching outside of camps is more $$$ unless your program has a coach that knows what they are doing and commits the time to the player. These girls are coming out of finlind and other countires becuase they have coaching provided to them specific to their craft. We should take a page from their book. As far as D1 vs D2 or D3 1 & 2 you get the athletic scholarship thats all good, but your player better have a good understanding that D1 is your full time job you are getting paid and education to play and results are expected and many hours are required. As in our family my player went D1 and it was an awesome experiance and determined that she wasnt going to play professional hockey and concetrating on studies to get into a good med school was more important so she transferred to a D3 program. The level of play is at another level but she is focusing on what was important to her. The other thing a goalie must consider is playing time...there are usually 3 on team and only one plays there are no shifts. So although a D1 program is really cool to be a part of it isnt all that great to sit on the bench and watch the girl from Finland, Canada, etc. play every period. Playing at D2 or 3 may get you more time on the ice rather than the bench. Whew that was a hell of a rant.....But Im the guy in the stands that doesnt say good shot i yell good save.

[DANCINHOCKEYDAD]

I heard that there is a senior female goalie starting for the Armstrong Boys Varsity team. Can anyone confirm that? And will she be in contention for top 10 girl goalie honors?

[MinnGirlsHockey]

I heard that there is a senior female goalie starting for the Armstrong Boys Varsity team. Can anyone confirm that? And will she be in contention for top 10 girl goalie honors?

I think you may be referring to Cooper, not Armstrong - but I'm not sure that she would be starting. They actually have 2 girl goalies (a sophomore & a senior) and 1 boy goalie (sophomore). It looks like the sophomore girl played the most for them last year as a freshman.

I don't think the senior she will be in contention for the girls' Senior Goalie of the Year award but I'm only guessing that she would still be "eligible" for it.

On a side note, unfortunately it looks like the Cooper boys program is on its last legs:
http://post.mnsun.com/2012/11/with-futu ... e-present/