What happens to Wayzata??

[celly93]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure BSM draws more students from Plymouth than any other suburb. I know that Providence is there, and I assume that Breck has quite a few students who live in the Wayzata district. The more students you lose, the more hockey players you lose. It's a tough situation for Wayzata, but its just the reality of where they are located.

[Doc Holliday]

I'm not buying the tradition bit either. Why would kids not want to establish their OWN tradition? If there is a good Bantam team why not want to stick together and win a HS State title for the school?

It's an interesting question, but I honestly think kids don't look at it that way. They want to be part of a tradition rather than be the building block. It doesn't just happen in HS hockey either; happens in lots of sports. Guys that play D-I football could want to be the builders of a program at Minnesota, but instead see the success & tradition of a Notre Dame, Ohio State or Michigan and want to be a part of that winning tradition.

I agree with you that I'd want to stick together and play with my buddies, who I've grown up with all my life & played with all my life.

As for "not everything revolves around hockey" in terms of choosing a private over a public, I say that's true. But I'd also guess that hockey is the heaviest factor that is weighed. Let's face it; EP, Edina, Wayzata & Minnetonka are pretty good schools academically. I think it's pretty naive to think that athletics isn't the biggest factor, especially for hockey players.

[passthepuck2me]

Maple Grove rarely loses a player to private schools while Wayzata seems to lose 2-3 per year. Why is this?

Kids leave for private schools for a variety of reasons.
(ie-kid doesn't like the coach, coach doesn't like the kid, parents don't like the coach, coach doesn't like the parents, etc.)

I've heard from Wayzata friends that Wayzata has a hard and fast rule that they won't let freshman tryout for varsity. Maybe this is another reason why kids leave?
Also, parents weren't that enamored with the previous regime.

Everyone thought O'Leary would keep the best players at Wayzata but then he loses freshman phenom, Pitlick, to Shattuck. Big, big loss!!

However, I truly believe the main reason kids leave for private schools is
that their parents think there are better opportunities (Athletics and Academics) at a private school.

Gees, maybe their parents went to a private school and want their kids going to a private school. They might not even know the coach? Not everything revolves around hockey.

Totally agree, it's not unusual that parents already know that their kids will transfer to a private schools for 8-12th to get a better chance for college prep and their academic future. NHL would be great but really, what are the chances, 5% of all kids???

[hockey1504]

Bottom line is and I think it is a lot of kids leave to private schools becuase they think they have a better chance to move on beyond high school. They think the private schools have some "prestiege" that is way better then a public school. Maybe they do but not that much. Simply put if academics are a huge part of why you are leaving then great. But if you are sucha super star hockey player and your that good there is no reason to leave your going to get noticed by scouts either way trust me. Along with that if your a stud hockey player and you stay at the school your suppose to play for your going to get a lot of players to stay with you. Like one poster said these kids need to learn to start making their own traditions along with coaches help to.

[HShockeywatcher]

I've heard from Wayzata friends that Wayzata has a hard and fast rule that they won't let freshman tryout for varsity. Maybe this is another reason why kids leave?
Also, parents weren't that enamored with the previous regime.

For those that leave big communities early, this may be the reason. Many (the good ones; Lee, Schroeder, Iverson, Gersich) even ended up playing varsity as an 8th grader. It is unlikely in many of those cases that opportunity would be available in a big public program.

[observer]

Bantam A is almost always a better path for development. I sure can't think of anyone it's hurt.

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

Bottom line is and I think it is a lot of kids leave to private schools becuase they think they have a better chance to move on beyond high school. They think the private schools have some "prestiege" that is way better then a public school. Maybe they do but not that much. Simply put if academics are a huge part of why you are leaving then great. But if you are sucha super star hockey player and your that good there is no reason to leave your going to get noticed by scouts either way trust me. Along with that if your a stud hockey player and you stay at the school your suppose to play for your going to get a lot of players to stay with you. Like one poster said these kids need to learn to start making their own traditions along with coaches help to.

Wayzata is a better academic school than BSM with many more opportunities.

[PuckU126]

Wayzata is a better academic school than BSM with many more opportunities.

Prove it.

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

Wayzata is a better academic school than BSM with many more opportunities.

Prove it.

prove that is isn't? It offers more class choices, including AP courses, and has more clubs and extracurriculars.

[MNHockeyFan]

Also think about why so many kids leave the big suburban public schools to attend the much smaller privates, not just BSM. Most of them don't play hockey!

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

Also think about why so many kids leave the big suburban public schools to attend the much smaller privates, not just BSM. Most of them don't play hockey!

Because they have money and they want private school "status"

Big public schools like EP, Wayzata, Tonka are equal to small privates in academics.

[almostashappy]

Harvard!

Yale!

Harvard!

[C-dad]

Also think about why so many kids leave the big suburban public schools to attend the much smaller privates, not just BSM. Most of them don't play hockey!

Because they have money and they want private school "status"

Big public schools like EP, Wayzata, Tonka are equal to small privates in academics.

I do know one family quite well who went from a very good public in 8th to a private in 9th for their son. He was a decent student but they felt he could do better. At a big school, if you are not a brainiac and don't make waves you are anonymous, I know cause that's my kid too.

He went to a private school with smaller classes, more direct interaction with the teachers and each kid and he has gone to all As and Bs (from Cs and Bs). It also turned out he made a varsity team when he probably wouldn't have at the public school, but that was purely gravy from their standpoint.

I also talked to one hockey dad who made no bones about his own experience years ago. He had no shot at varsity in the big public where he lived. His parents had money so he went to a private where he played varsity.

I suggest you don't judge if you you don't know the individual experience.

[PuckU126]

Prove it.

I can't prove it because I don't know the proper information.

Fixed

[PuckU126]

Also think about why so many kids leave the big suburban public schools to attend the much smaller privates, not just BSM. Most of them don't play hockey!

Because they have money and they want private school "status"

Big public schools like EP, Wayzata, Tonka are equal to small privates in academics.

I do know one family quite well who went from a very good public in 8th to a private in 9th for their son. He was a decent student but they felt he could do better. At a big school, if you are not a brainiac and don't make waves you are anonymous, I know cause that's my kid too.

He went to a private school with smaller classes, more direct interaction with the teachers and each kid and he has gone to all As and Bs (from Cs and Bs). It also turned out he made a varsity team when he probably wouldn't have at the public school, but that was purely gravy from their standpoint.

I also talked to one hockey dad who made no bones about his own experience years ago. He had no shot at varsity in the big public where he lived. His parents had money so he went to a private where he played varsity.

I suggest you don't judge if you you don't know the individual experience.

C-dad hit it on the nose. Private schools have less of a dichotomy between teacher and student. There is more of an opportunity for attention and support for the student.

In addition, I agree that people shouldn't judge based on a lack of individual experience.

[DanFromWoodbury]

Because they have money and they want private school "status"

Big public schools like EP, Wayzata, Tonka are equal to small privates in academics.

I do know one family quite well who went from a very good public in 8th to a private in 9th for their son. He was a decent student but they felt he could do better. At a big school, if you are not a brainiac and don't make waves you are anonymous, I know cause that's my kid too.

He went to a private school with smaller classes, more direct interaction with the teachers and each kid and he has gone to all As and Bs (from Cs and Bs). It also turned out he made a varsity team when he probably wouldn't have at the public school, but that was purely gravy from their standpoint.

I also talked to one hockey dad who made no bones about his own experience years ago. He had no shot at varsity in the big public where he lived. His parents had money so he went to a private where he played varsity.

I suggest you don't judge if you you don't know the individual experience.

C-dad hit it on the nose. Private schools have less of a dichotomy between teacher and student. There is more of an opportunity for attention and support for the student.

In addition, I agree that people shouldn't judge based on a lack of individual experience.

8)

But aren't we talking about some of the best hockey players from Wayzata, not the 'anonymous' lesser athletes? I say C-dad's comment, while totally true is irrelevant here.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Wayzata has a very strong football tradition during the 2000's and this hurts their hockey program in some ways. Some good hockey players have tried to play both hockey and football which in turn hurts their hockey development somewhat. The student body gets more excited about the football games as a whole and that affects the prestige of playing for them as well. Tradition is probably the biggest factor in play here, which really isn't the kids fault it will just take a special group of kids to finally breakthrough and catch up to the 3 state tournament titles by the football team. Eden Prairie is similar but doesn't have the private schools taking away as much. So their hockey program has been able to have a lot of success along with the football program. But EP is still a "football" school. Look at the crowd sizes.

The best hockey players at a high school often play football. There have been a million high school hockey players who letter in football too. I disagree with the one sport athlete theory.

I think spring sports are great for hockey players.. Never said you need to be a one sport athlete. Playing football without a doubt hurts your hockey though because when you should be preparing for the season at captains practice, you are out on the football field. and since Wayzata always makes the state tournament in football, the football/hockey players have to miss the first week of tryouts which puts them at a disadvantage right off the bat. Seem pretty clear to me.

Isn't Eden Prairie pretty good at football?

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

You guys are unbelievable, at a big public school you are not "anonymous." Teachers make it very clear to students that if they are in need of extra help, all they have to do is ask and they can always meet before or after school. But that's a HUGE inconvenience so let's pay for college twice.

[C-dad]

You guys are unbelievable, at a big public school you are not "anonymous." Teachers make it very clear to students that if they are in need of extra help, all they have to do is ask and they can always meet before or after school. But that's a HUGE inconvenience so let's pay for college twice.

Based on my own experience with my kid - good luck with that....

If the kid is enough of a self-starter to do that, there is no issue in the first dam place. The issue is with kids, like mine and the one I cited, who are smart enough but not motivated enough to take the extra step to get help. I know of a couple kids who, when they went to a private, they got pushed enough by the teachers to make a big difference in their academic performance. I don't have the $$ to pay for my kid to move on, but I have seen it work and completely understand it.

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

You guys are unbelievable, at a big public school you are not "anonymous." Teachers make it very clear to students that if they are in need of extra help, all they have to do is ask and they can always meet before or after school. But that's a HUGE inconvenience so let's pay for college twice.

Based on my own experience with my kid - good luck with that....

If the kid is enough of a self-starter to do that, there is no issue in the first dam place. The issue is with kids, like mine and the one I cited, who are smart enough but not motivated enough to take the extra step to get help. I know of a couple kids who, when they went to a private, they got pushed enough by the teachers to make a big difference in their academic performance. I don't have the $$ to pay for my kid to move on, but I have seen it work and completely understand it.

So basically to sum up what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that parents will pay for college twice because their kid cannot say to a teacher "can i stay after school and go over some work with you?"

hahahahaha

[arena dogg]

The Maple Grove classes of 2004 and 2005 were hit hard by defections to private schools. In spite of that, the 2004-05 made it to the section and lost by one goal to Elk River. 5 players from that team eventually made it to D1.final.quote="passthepuck2me"]

Maple Grove rarely loses a player to private schools while Wayzata seems to lose 2-3 per year. Why is this?

Kids leave for private schools for a variety of reasons.
(ie-kid doesn't like the coach, coach doesn't like the kid, parents don't like the coach, coach doesn't like the parents, etc.)

I've heard from Wayzata friends that Wayzata has a hard and fast rule that they won't let freshman tryout for varsity. Maybe this is another reason why kids leave?
Also, parents weren't that enamored with the previous regime.

Everyone thought O'Leary would keep the best players at Wayzata but then he loses freshman phenom, Pitlick, to Shattuck. Big, big loss!!

However, I truly believe the main reason kids leave for private schools is
that their parents think there are better opportunities (Athletics and Academics) at a private school.

Gees, maybe their parents went to a private school and want their kids going to a private school. They might not even know the coach? Not everything revolves around hockey.

Totally agree, it's not unusual that parents already know that their kids will transfer to a private schools for 8-12th to get a better chance for college prep and their academic future. NHL would be great but really, what are the chances, 5% of all kids???[/quote]

[HShockeywatcher]

In addition, I agree that people shouldn't judge based on a lack of individual experience.

This pretty much sums up many pages of this discussion.

[edgeless2]

Wayzata has a very strong football tradition during the 2000's and this hurts their hockey program in some ways. Some good hockey players have tried to play both hockey and football which in turn hurts their hockey development somewhat. The student body gets more excited about the football games as a whole and that affects the prestige of playing for them as well. Tradition is probably the biggest factor in play here, which really isn't the kids fault it will just take a special group of kids to finally breakthrough and catch up to the 3 state tournament titles by the football team. Eden Prairie is similar but doesn't have the private schools taking away as much. So their hockey program has been able to have a lot of success along with the football program. But EP is still a "football" school. Look at the crowd sizes.

The best hockey players at a high school often play football. There have been a million high school hockey players who letter in football too. I disagree with the one sport athlete theory.

I think spring sports are great for hockey players.. Never said you need to be a one sport athlete. Playing football without a doubt hurts your hockey though because when you should be preparing for the season at captains practice, you are out on the football field. and since Wayzata always makes the state tournament in football, the football/hockey players have to miss the first week of tryouts which puts them at a disadvantage right off the bat. Seem pretty clear to me.

Didnt seem to harm Anders Lee or Zack Budish??

[MJA10]

It sounds like there are some great players at Benilde who come from Wayzata, but all the good public schools lose kids to private schools. Eden Prairie, Edina, Jefferson, etc. There is a tradition of winning that gets instilled by certain coaches, embraced by the certain communities, and it really does take both in order to win a state title. For whatever reason, teams like Tonka, Wayzata, White Bear just can't seem to get it done at the State tournament. I'm sure one of those three will get one at some point, but having a top Bantam A team doesn't necessarily equate to winning a high school title.

Jefferson has only lost one player in the past 5 or so years. Eden Prairie also has lost only a few and although Edina loses a lot they also have some transfer in. but Wayzata does lose a lot more than the other and doesnt gain anyone like Edina

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

The best hockey players at a high school often play football. There have been a million high school hockey players who letter in football too. I disagree with the one sport athlete theory.

I think spring sports are great for hockey players.. Never said you need to be a one sport athlete. Playing football without a doubt hurts your hockey though because when you should be preparing for the season at captains practice, you are out on the football field. and since Wayzata always makes the state tournament in football, the football/hockey players have to miss the first week of tryouts which puts them at a disadvantage right off the bat. Seem pretty clear to me.

Didnt seem to harm Anders Lee or Zack Budish??

I mean let's just point out two extremely gifted athletes to disprove my point? There are always exceptions.....