Now is the time to force all Privates up to "AA"

[rainier]

If a team can draw from a AA population center and kids in that city can switch schools without having to move or drive long distances, they should be in AA.

The vast majority of A teams are subject to the vagaries of their existing talent pools, private schools in large cities are only limited to whether the top kids choose to go to their school or not. This is a HUGE difference and is exactly why private schools are dominating A.

You heard it here first; Proctor, Mankato East/West, Denfeld, Apollo and many others need to opt up to AA.

You say that and many say it is before teams being allowed to opt up. Neither are wrong.
Like in 4A football the last decade, it isn't "private schools" it is two schools that are private, it is two schools that are private.
a. You take St Thomas/Breck out and there is no domination.
b. You don't let teams opt up, there is no domination.
c. Communities focus on their communities more instead of pointing fingers, there is no domination.

Get back to me when any of those teams you mentioned start to make a mockery of A hockey such as STA and Breck have. Or when they can offer a family 80k worth of private school education.

[rainier]

Did Marshall and Lourdes really look like they need to be moved up to AA yesterday? Yes, Breck and STA need to be move up already but I don't see any problems right now with other schools. It has only been those two privates winning Class A title recently, though TG did in '02 I believe and DM had that run of 2nd place finishes. Without Breck and STA, that opens up 8 spots in the championship game in the last 12 years to other teams.

I see what you're saying, but they still have easy access to AA pools of talent. It is no coincidence that when Marshall went on their big run in 06-08, East did not make it to state. And just wait and see Marshall over the next 2-3 years, they will be outstanding, and I am willing to bet there will be a corresponding swoon (relative to their usual success) for East during this time.

Some of the top Bantams from the Duluth area went to Marshall this season, and word from Duluth posters is that 5-6 of the top Bantams in Duluth will be on Marshall next year. These are kids that would otherwise go to East, a AA school. This type of movement is simply impossible for the VAST majority of A schools.

And Lourdes may not have looked all that great, but there are 3 AA schools in Rochester, yet the one A school is the best team in the city. If a large chunk of the best players in Rochester go to a public school, they will play in AA, but if they decide to go to Lourdes, they are in A. That doesn't seem right.

If a team can draw from a AA population center and kids in that city can switch schools without having to move or drive long distances, they should be in AA.

The vast majority of A teams are subject to the vagaries of their existing talent pools, private schools in large cities are only limited to whether the top kids choose to go to their school or not. This is a HUGE difference and is exactly why private schools are dominating A.

I'll just pick your brain here a little bit, what about in St. Cloud where there is one AA school (Teach) and then 4 A teams in the direct vicinity (Apollo, Cathedral, Sartell, Sauk Rapids)? While there are different youth associations, these A teams have all the opportunity to draw kids from the st. cloud metro area. There could be many reasons why kids choose one over the other, including Apollo has a bad rep for academics, SR and Tech have had some heat around their hockey programs (coaches, parents, AD's), where friends go, tuition at Cathedral, and there could be many more.

I'll maintain my stance that the only private schools truly dominating A are STA and Breck. Marshall could be soon by your accounts but I don't really see SCC, Lourdes, Blake, or TG dominating like STA or Breck have been recently. Again things could change either way. To me they would just be competitive teams.

One more thought I had is would you apply this principal to all sports even is the private school is not as successful/competitive in some sports. Would they have to play up a class higher than their enrollment would place them or just play in the highest class?

You have valid points, but I would say that if a significant chunk of the talent from a large city congregates at one school, that school should be considered AA.

I suggested an idea a few pages back that might be workable, here it is again:

1. All private schools are placed in AA.

2. All private schools can then petition to be in A, and then the A coaches will vote on if the feel that team is suited for A. This way the unsuccessful A privates will be allowed to stay in A, helping them to have success and build a better program. And the privates that are clearly suited to AA will stay in AA. As I said before, I think this is a totally reasonable "price" the privates would have to pay given that they have the ability to circumvent traditional enrollment/talent ratios.

What do you think of this idea?

[Cowboy]

I don't think we can take a one-year look at Marshall and Lourdes and say they should or should not be in the A tournament. Even in a down year, these schools would probably be a high seed in their respective AA section tournament.

If privates were forced to move up the A tournament probably would have included: 1A - Northfield, 2A - Delano, 3A - New Ulm, 4A - Mahtomedi, 5A - Hermantown, 6A - Little Falls, 7A - Hibbing, 8A - Thief River falls.

That would have overall been a much more competative tournament, but Hermantown would probably roll over everyone. Maybe after a few championships they would also decide to move up a class opening up the door for another team to make it (Proctor perhaps).

In my opinion it would be much more interesting to watch. Also, St. Thomas and Breck would have still had a good shot at making it to state in AA.

[mn man]

News Flash: Maple Grove has just started a petition to force Hill Murray to play single "A"

[rainier]

I don't think we can take a one-year look at Marshall and Lourdes and say they should or should not be in the A tournament. Even in a down year, these schools would probably be a high seed in their respective AA section tournament.

If privates were forced to move up the A tournament probably would have included: 1A - Northfield, 2A - Delano, 3A - New Ulm, 4A - Mahtomedi, 5A - Hermantown, 6A - Little Falls, 7A - Hibbing, 8A - Thief River falls.

That would have overall been a much more competative tournament, but Hermantown would probably roll over everyone. Maybe after a few championships they would also decide to move up a class opening up the door for another team to make it (Proctor perhaps).

In my opinion it would be much more interesting to watch. Also, St. Thomas and Breck would have still had a good shot at making it to state in AA.

Great post. That field might not be too flashy, but the games overall would be MUCH more competitive and exciting. Hermantown would likely roll, but don't forget they only beat TRF 3-1 earlier this year and Hibbing 4-0 when Hibbing was missing a player on each of its top two lines. So I think the games would at least be competitive.

If an A school can dominate through systemic excellence using players from a legitimate A sized pool of players, I have nothing but respect for that. (Although if teams like STA and Breck were no longer around to play the foil, I bet Hermantown would opt up.)

[OldTimePuck00]

Metro privates: located in an area with a population of 3,000,000
Duluth Marshall: located in city of 90,000
Rochester Lourdes: located in city of 106,000
St. Cloud Cathedral: located in city of 66,000

These private schools draw in top talent from these large cities. 10 of the last 13 Class A champions have been private schools from one of the large cities listed above. Only 1 Class A title game in the last 13 years was between two public schools.

Can anyone say with a straight face that drawing from a AA sized population center isn't the reason the private schools are winning so much? We know it's not from having great youth programs to develop the talent. It doesn't matter why the players are going to the private schools, all that matters is that a large chunk of the talent from huge, AA sized areas ends up on their rosters.

These are AA teams. They just are.

The worst thing that happened to Class A hockey was BSM opting up after winning titles, because that gave the MSHSL the impression that the private schools exploiting the enrollment loophole would self-regulate and choose the path of integrity once they had established their hockey programs. Obviously, this hasn't happened.

As was astutely mentioned by another poster, "Breck and STA schedule SSM (and play them tightly, by the way), yet they are in the small school class of MN HS hockey?"

All of the whining of this thread may be for nothing (I admit I do most of it), but I think the MSHSL will do something about this. Call me overly optimistic or just plain delusional, but voluntarily or not, I see the private schools from large cities moving to AA within the next few years.

While your point is entirely valid and I agree entirely, I think the figure of 3,000,000 people for Metro privates to draw kids needs to be examined more closely. STA, Breck, Blake and Totino are the predominant metro privates in class A so really the figure for each school is more like 750,000 (3,000,000/4).

If you wanted to get really picky Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Benilde, & Cretin could all be included as well, still allotting 375,000 to each (3,000,000/8 ). But seeing as they are already AA perhaps it isn't necessary.

The point is that schools like SCC, DM, and Lourdes are not in a metro are with this kind of a population, their success' and streaks come and go and fluctuate much more so than the trophy-chasing metro teams, specifically Breck and STA. Some major changes are definitely needed, but I think it will be a process that will need many seasons to completely resolve the issue, but the distinction of the fundamental differences between metro privates and privates like Lourdes, SCC and DM must be acknowledged during the process.

[mvp3]

You have valid points, but I would say that if a significant chunk of the talent from a large city congregates at one school, that school should be considered AA.

I suggested an idea a few pages back that might be workable, here it is again:

1. All private schools are placed in AA.

2. All private schools can then petition to be in A, and then the A coaches will vote on if the feel that team is suited for A. This way the unsuccessful A privates will be allowed to stay in A, helping them to have success and build a better program. And the privates that are clearly suited to AA will stay in AA. As I said before, I think this is a totally reasonable "price" the privates would have to pay given that they have the ability to circumvent traditional enrollment/talent ratios.

What do you think of this idea?

So if a public A team in a "AA size area" started getting most of the talent then they should be placed in AA? (hypothetically speaking obviously)

I just don't like forcing every private into AA and leaving it on other coaches to decide. I think the best would be to make it accomplishment based (e.g. make state so many times in a period, win/place at state so often, etc). So essentially a tiered system but applied to privates.

Also from my previous post, would your idea apply to all sports since they have the population to draw from? Or would it be exclusive to hockey? Because I know that there are other sports at these schools that would be very over-matched if playing in higher classes.

[rainier]

While your point is entirely valid and I agree entirely, I think the figure of 3,000,000 people for Metro privates to draw kids needs to be examined more closely. STA, Breck, Blake and Totino are the predominant metro privates in class A so really the figure for each school is more like 750,000 (3,000,000/4).

If you wanted to get really picky Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Benilde, & Cretin could all be included as well, still allotting 375,000 to each (3,000,000/8). But seeing as they are already AA perhaps it isn't necessary.

The point is that schools like SCC, DM, and Lourdes are not in a metro are with this kind of a population, their success' and streaks come and go and fluctuate much more so than the trophy-chasing metro teams, specifically Breck and STA. Some major changes are definitely needed, but I think it will be a process that will need many seasons to completely resolve the issue, but the distinction of the fundamental differences between metro privates and privates like Lourdes, SCC and DM must be acknowledged during the process.

I can see how Lourdes and SCC might be more subject to fluctuations, but with Marshall, their success seems to rest on how good East is and if there is any room for incoming bantam stars on the East roster. If the top kids keep going there, Marshall will have sustained domination.

But, either way, I think the idea I suggested could help with this. If all A coaches (and AA too, if you think it would produce better results) voted as to which private schools were appropriate for A, then SCC and Lourdes might very well stay in A, but the years when the talent from their respective cities made them a top 5 A team, then AA is where they belong.

And I know this is picking and choosing, but as I said before, the big city privates have the unique ability to circumvent the enrollment rules and offer significant financial incentives, thus putting this type of check on them would be a reasonable "price" to pay.

[blacklung]

I don't think we can take a one-year look at Marshall and Lourdes and say they should or should not be in the A tournament. Even in a down year, these schools would probably be a high seed in their respective AA section tournament.

If privates were forced to move up the A tournament probably would have included: 1A - Northfield, 2A - Delano, 3A - New Ulm, 4A - Mahtomedi, 5A - Hermantown, 6A - Little Falls, 7A - Hibbing, 8A - Thief River falls.

That would have overall been a much more competative tournament, but Hermantown would probably roll over everyone. Maybe after a few championships they would also decide to move up a class opening up the door for another team to make it (Proctor perhaps).

In my opinion it would be much more interesting to watch. Also, St. Thomas and Breck would have still had a good shot at making it to state in AA.

Great post. That field might not be too flashy, but the games overall would be MUCH more competitive and exciting. Hermantown would likely roll, but don't forget they only beat TRF 3-1 earlier this year and Hibbing 4-0 when Hibbing was missing a player on each of its top two lines. So I think the games would at least be competitive.

If an A school can dominate through systemic excellence using players from a legitimate A sized pool of players, I have nothing but respect for that. (Although if teams like STA and Breck were no longer around to play the foil, I bet Hermantown would opt up.)

[OnFrozenPond]

If a team can draw from a AA population center and kids in that city can switch schools without having to move or drive long distances, they should be in AA.

The vast majority of A teams are subject to the vagaries of their existing talent pools, private schools in large cities are only limited to whether the top kids choose to go to their school or not. This is a HUGE difference and is exactly why private schools are dominating A.

You heard it here first; Proctor, Mankato East/West, Denfeld, Apollo and many others need to opt up to AA.

You say that and many say it is before teams being allowed to opt up. Neither are wrong.
Like in 4A football the last decade, it isn't "private schools" it is two schools that are private, it is two schools that are private.
a. You take St Thomas/Breck out and there is no domination.
b. You don't let teams opt up, there is no domination.
c. Communities focus on their communities more instead of pointing fingers, there is no domination.

Not letting teams opt up does not change the fact that Private Schools would still dominate the A landscape. If anything it would be worse since some of the best teams that opt up are private schools.

[rainier]

So if a public A team in a "AA size area" started getting most of the talent then they should be placed in AA? (hypothetically speaking obviously)

I just don't like forcing every private into AA and leaving it on other coaches to decide. I think the best would be to make it accomplishment based (e.g. make state so many times in a period, win/place at state so often, etc). So essentially a tiered system but applied to privates.

Also from my previous post, would your idea apply to all sports since they have the population to draw from? Or would it be exclusive to hockey? Because I know that there are other sports at these schools that would be very over-matched if playing in higher classes.

For your first point, I don't know, I don't think we've seen a public A team in a AA sized area get so much outside talent that they win back to back titles. And I don't think we would. Whereas STA and Breck can offer a family a HUGE incentive in the form of 80k in free tuition, public schools can't.

And I think the idea I proposed is kind of accomplishment based. If SCC were approved to be in A, won the title that year, and only lost two 3rd line skaters to graduation, then their success would very likely place them in AA the following season.

As for other sports, I would say if the private school is making a mockery of their class in the way STA and Breck have done with hockey, then they should be moved up.

Private schools operate differently from public schools, therefore I see no problem with the criteria for their class assignment being different.

Yeah, I b*tch about STA and Breck constantly, but I watched two very good teams yesterday with some very exciting players. They are good schools with good hockey programs, but they are clearly AA teams. Like I said before, for teams like STA and Breck, Class A should be a stepping stone, not a crutch.

[rainier]

If a team can draw from a AA population center and kids in that city can switch schools without having to move or drive long distances, they should be in AA.

The vast majority of A teams are subject to the vagaries of their existing talent pools, private schools in large cities are only limited to whether the top kids choose to go to their school or not. This is a HUGE difference and is exactly why private schools are dominating A.

You heard it here first; Proctor, Mankato East/West, Denfeld, Apollo and many others need to opt up to AA.

You say that and many say it is before teams being allowed to opt up. Neither are wrong.
Like in 4A football the last decade, it isn't "private schools" it is two schools that are private, it is two schools that are private.
a. You take St Thomas/Breck out and there is no domination.
b. You don't let teams opt up, there is no domination.
c. Communities focus on their communities more instead of pointing fingers, there is no domination.

Not letting teams opt up does not change the fact that Private Schools would still dominate the A landscape. If anything it would be worse since some of the best teams that opt up are private schools.

Several people have suggested the "no opting up" idea. No disrespect, but I think that is absurd. If Roseau, Rapids, Cloquet, etc. want to test themselves by playing against the best, I don't see how you can possibly keep them from trying to defy the odds. They are willingly entering a larger class and sacrificing what would be almost certain success in A to go for the big prize. As a Hibbing fan, if enrollments came back up (which may very well happen) and/or a couple classes came through where they would have a good chance of winning 7AA for 2-3 years (Hibbing Pee Wee A seemed to be very good this year), then it would kill me to watch them stay in A and beat up on A teams.

The A privates are not defying the odds, they are using them overwhelmingly in their favor. They are not challenging themselves (at least not in the post season, see:SSM), they are taking the easy route.

[mvp3]

For your first point, I don't know, I don't think we've seen a public A team in a AA sized area get so much outside talent that they win back to back titles. And I don't think we would. Whereas STA and Breck can offer a family a HUGE incentive in the form of 80k in free tuition, public schools can't.

And I think the idea I proposed is kind of accomplishment based. If SCC were approved to be in A, won the title that year, and only lost two 3rd line skaters to graduation, then their success would very likely place them in AA the following season.

As for other sports, I would say if the private school is making a mockery of their class in the way STA and Breck have done with hockey, then they should be moved up.

Private schools operate differently from public schools, therefore I see no problem with the criteria for their class assignment being different.

Yeah, I b*tch about STA and Breck constantly, but I watched two very good teams yesterday with some very exciting players. They are good schools with good hockey programs, but they are clearly AA teams. Like I said before, for teams like STA and Breck, Class A should be a stepping stone, not a crutch.

So would it be a yearly vote for privates that wanted to opt down to A? Or whenever sections and classes are realigned? Or after a team wins a championship? I see major problems from a yearly vote because coaches could just vote teams to AA because they will have a good team next year or could make a championship run in A. But then if they are down the next year they would allow them back in A.

I would rather see a set criteria that they would have to attain than to leave it up to coaches. Why not force up the teams that need to be, rather than making others petition stay down. When Lourdes, Blake, SCC, and TG start making state every year and winning multiple championships, then lets look more at forcing them all. Breck and STA need to go, from the way you made it sound, DM could be approaching these levels too.

[rainier]

For your first point, I don't know, I don't think we've seen a public A team in a AA sized area get so much outside talent that they win back to back titles. And I don't think we would. Whereas STA and Breck can offer a family a HUGE incentive in the form of 80k in free tuition, public schools can't.

And I think the idea I proposed is kind of accomplishment based. If SCC were approved to be in A, won the title that year, and only lost two 3rd line skaters to graduation, then their success would very likely place them in AA the following season.

As for other sports, I would say if the private school is making a mockery of their class in the way STA and Breck have done with hockey, then they should be moved up.

Private schools operate differently from public schools, therefore I see no problem with the criteria for their class assignment being different.

Yeah, I b*tch about STA and Breck constantly, but I watched two very good teams yesterday with some very exciting players. They are good schools with good hockey programs, but they are clearly AA teams. Like I said before, for teams like STA and Breck, Class A should be a stepping stone, not a crutch.

So would it be a yearly vote for privates that wanted to opt down to A? Or whenever sections and classes are realigned? Or after a team wins a championship? I see major problems from a yearly vote because coaches could just vote teams to AA because they will have a good team next year or could make a championship run in A. But then if they are down the next year they would allow them back in A.

I would rather see a set criteria that they would have to attain than to leave it up to coaches. Why not force up the teams that need to be, rather than making others petition stay down. When Lourdes, Blake, SCC, and TG start making state every year and winning multiple championships, then lets look more at forcing them all. Breck and STA need to go, from the way you made it sound, DM could be approaching these levels too.

Yeah, there could be problems from coaches voting, but how many A teams each year have a legitimate shot at winning the A title? 10? 15 at very most? (Hibbing finished #13 in A, yet I don't think they had a legit shot at the title even if STA and Breck weren't in it.) Even if those 10-15 coaches were biased (I bet integrity would trump selfishness for at least a few of them), the other 65-70 A coaches could more than balance this out.

Note: If I'm wrong about the East/Marshall dynamic, someone please let me know.

[blacklung]

This is a down year for sta. They lost many (not sure of the exact #) seniors last yeas and this year only have 5 seniors. Hermantown has 11 seniors this year one of the best teams in Hermantown history. Sta is very good this year. If Herm cannot knock them off this year they will have 3 Class A titles in a row because nobody in Class A will touch them next year. Probably not even AA. My prediction is hopefully this year Hermantown can knock them off. Next year class A will be a 1 team show with Sta walking through the class A tourney without breaking a sweat. How exciting!

[MJA10]

I know I mentioned this before but if St. Thomas went to AA they would be in section 3 and would be a favorite in that section often so I don't see why they even struggle with the decision when they would still make it to state most years in AA.

[sachishi4]

I know I mentioned this before but if St. Thomas went to AA they would be in section 3 and would be a favorite in that section often so I don't see why they even struggle with the decision when they would still make it to state most years in AA.

The school admins don't want to give priority to any sport by showing special treatment, like opting up in hockey.

Doesn't make that much sense to me either...

[rainier]

I know I mentioned this before but if St. Thomas went to AA they would be in section 3 and would be a favorite in that section often so I don't see why they even struggle with the decision when they would still make it to state most years in AA.

Here's why:
Championships=more $$$ from alumni

Can't risk that by opting up.

[Goldy23]

STA lost to Hill, Edina, Duluth East and Hill this year (all 3 are in the AA tourney)...yeah I'd rather play against "quality small schools" if my goal was to collect (meaningless) state titles too. LOL

I'm sure if they polled the STA players...the majority would prefer to play AA because these kids have some pride.

PS: At least the BRECK and Duluth Marshall supporters stay MUTE on this thread...they know better than trying to defend playing Class A.

I'm a Breck supporter and I agree that under the current situation, STA should be forced to move up due to number of Boys attending the school and Breck should opt up because they have proven they are one of if not the most prolific recruiters in the State. A better solution is one 16 team State tourney and drop the class A/AA.

so none of the small schools can ever compete?

No, not at all. By making it a 16 section 16 team tourney you would very well get some of the smaller schools in the years when their programs are up. I would guess that on average, you would see 12-13 schools that are currently AA make the tourney while 3-4 of he teams that a currently A teams make it from time to time. Some of the small school teams that come to mind from recent years are: Roseau(Ness years-and yes I know they are AA) Warroad (Nelson years) Little Falls (Hanowski, Festler years), Hermantwon any of the past 3-4 years, maybe a Hibbing or Virgina team or two and of course Breck and STA. In this years field depending on how the sections were broken down, Hermantown, STA and Breck very well could have made the field and who knows maybe TRF as well.

The point is that the small schools would have to be a very good team and not just the better of a mediocore bunch in a weak section(New Ulm, Albert Lea, etc...) that end up going to St. Paul and getting blasted year after year.

This way there are still sixteen teams playing in March but at least they are the 16 teams that are the most deserving because they earned the right against all of the other teams in sections to get there. While I get it that New Ulm gets really excited about going again, but so would Roseau, Minnetonka, Brainerd, Hibbing, etc.... and any way you cut it, they are better teams and hence, more deserving.

[DotaDangler]

I know I mentioned this before but if St. Thomas went to AA they would be in section 3 and would be a favorite in that section often so I don't see why they even struggle with the decision when they would still make it to state most years in AA.

Here's why:
Championships=more $$$ from alumni

Can't risk that by opting up.

Sorry, but your wrong. The big bucks come from the big business guys who can right $50k checks and appreciate the education they got, not the hockey-player alumnus who donated a couple hundred dollars when they get excited to see STA on T.V.

The school managed to squeak by for 150 years or so before that lucrative hockey money started coming in 7 years ago.

[thestickler07]

Sorry, but your wrong. The big bucks come from the big business guys who can right $50k checks and appreciate the education they got, not the hockey-player alumnus who donated a couple hundred dollars when they get excited to see STA on T.V.

The school managed to squeak by for 150 years or so before that lucrative hockey money started coming in 7 years ago.

Stop making sense you know that this topic isn't suited for that!:roll:

And rainier you should look into getting a job at STA's alumni/development office. You seem know more about their finances/tuition than anyone else here...

[MHGr8ness]

You heard it here first; Proctor, Mankato East/West, Denfeld, Apollo and many others need to opt up to AA.

You say that and many say it is before teams being allowed to opt up. Neither are wrong.
Like in 4A football the last decade, it isn't "private schools" it is two schools that are private, it is two schools that are private.
a. You take St Thomas/Breck out and there is no domination.
b. You don't let teams opt up, there is no domination.
c. Communities focus on their communities more instead of pointing fingers, there is no domination.

Not letting teams opt up does not change the fact that Private Schools would still dominate the A landscape. If anything it would be worse since some of the best teams that opt up are private schools.

Several people have suggested the "no opting up" idea. No disrespect, but I think that is absurd. If Roseau, Rapids, Cloquet, etc. want to test themselves by playing against the best, I don't see how you can possibly keep them from trying to defy the odds. They are willingly entering a larger class and sacrificing what would be almost certain success in A to go for the big prize. As a Hibbing fan, if enrollments came back up (which may very well happen) and/or a couple classes came through where they would have a good chance of winning 7AA for 2-3 years (Hibbing Pee Wee A seemed to be very good this year), then it would kill me to watch them stay in A and beat up on A teams.

The A privates are not defying the odds, they are using them overwhelmingly in their favor. They are not challenging themselves (at least not in the post season, see:SSM), they are taking the easy route.

I think by allowing that it would actually become the JV tournament. It would go from small schools to small schools that weren't good enough to try the jump.

[goldy313]

For clarification....

Lourdes never won a section title or even advanced past the quarterfinals during the 1 class tournament. In the late 90's, just prior to Rochester Century opening, a very small group of people decided to make Lourdes a hockey powerhouse in 1A and did what they could do by many means both ethical and unethical. In 1998 Lourdes was 3-17 and #7 seed in 1999 Lourdes was the #2 seed, what changed? From 2000-2003 Lourdes was the #1 seed and won the section each year, from 2004 to 2007 Lourdes was moved to 3A with St. Thomas, in 2008 Lourdes was moved back to 1A and they lost to Mankato West in the finals, they've won section 1A the 4 years since. So since 2000 Lourdes has been in 1A 9 years and won the section 8 times, that's hardly a fluctuation.

This isn't against Lourdes but to say what happens at Lourdes is subject to flucuations just isn't true given the time span it has been occuring.

[rainier]

Sorry, but your wrong. The big bucks come from the big business guys who can right $50k checks and appreciate the education they got, not the hockey-player alumnus who donated a couple hundred dollars when they get excited to see STA on T.V.

The school managed to squeak by for 150 years or so before that lucrative hockey money started coming in 7 years ago.

Stop making sense you know that this topic isn't suited for that!:roll:

And rainier you should look into getting a job at STA's alumni/development office. You seem know more about their finances/tuition than anyone else here...

I just go by what STA alumni have posted on here.

[deacon]

Sorry, but your wrong. The big bucks come from the big business guys who can right $50k checks and appreciate the education they got, not the hockey-player alumnus who donated a couple hundred dollars when they get excited to see STA on T.V.

The school managed to squeak by for 150 years or so before that lucrative hockey money started coming in 7 years ago.

Stop making sense you know that this topic isn't suited for that!:roll:

And rainier you should look into getting a job at STA's alumni/development office. You seem know more about their finances/tuition than anyone else here...

I just go by what STA alumni have posted on here.

No, you really don't. A poster said that STA offers financial aid, you do some math and come to the conclusion that each hockey player gets $80k. Sorry, but that's not the case. Financial aid is distributed based on the need of of the family if they request it. This is based on income, number dependents in the family, and some other things that don't have much of anything to do with how well you can play hockey, football, or baseball. Check out www.cadets.com, the information is there for everyone to look at.