Independent Cup

Spehar33 · Post by **Spehar33** » Mon May 21, 2012 1:12 pm

Ahhh, the exaggerations of the youth hockey "bored". The Black lost to Euro earlier in April 5-2 (not 6-1) as it was the first black scrimmage or game of the year and Euro already had a few more games under its belt, including against the Orange. That black incarnation had more game-changers than the one in the Independent. This black team in the Independent was the best team in the tourney from beginning to end. Every player made contributions big and small. All three Machine goalies play with both black and Orange. No big deal. They are great goalies, but they are still 10...so they are not always great. No advantages were had by the Orange players coming down to play with black. The black is just better than Euro now...Euro had their number last year with the black having 3-5 kids who did not belong on that stage, but the black beat them in every facet in the tourney and are the more talented team. Credit to Euro because every kid on that team is solid, but the black is just more talented.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Mon May 21, 2012 1:56 pm

Spehar33 wrote:Ahhh, the exaggerations of the youth hockey "bored". The Black lost to Euro earlier in April 5-2 (not 6-1) as it was the first black scrimmage or game of the year and Euro already had a few more games under its belt, including against the Orange. That black incarnation had more game-changers than the one in the Independent. This black team in the Independent was the best team in the tourney from beginning to end. Every player made contributions big and small. All three Machine goalies play with both black and Orange. No big deal. They are great goalies, but they are still 10...so they are not always great. No advantages were had by the Orange players coming down to play with black. The black is just better than Euro now...Euro had their number last year with the black having 3-5 kids who did not belong on that stage, but the black beat them in every facet in the tourney and are the more talented team. Credit to Euro because every kid on that team is solid, but the black is just more talented.

Wow - not too full of ourselves are we? "Didn't belong on that stage"??? It's always fun to see adults refer to their little kiddies as "more talented." Very entertaining.

Spehar33 · Post by **Spehar33** » Mon May 21, 2012 2:52 pm

Tonka man...by referring to the "stage" I'm talking about a an elite game for the age group. And yes, some kids are not at that level. How is that arrogant? It is a fun rivalry, and both teams are always looking to get better. Why? because they want to beat the other and have the best team possible. It is what it is.

Referring to little kids as more talented? What's wrong with that? Ask any first grade teacher...city league soccer coach...chess instructor...karate master about kids they teach and you don't think they know if there are more "talented" kids in the group and kids that are not as talented or smart or athletic or whatnot? Your dreaming. Kids have talents in all different areas as we all know, or would like to believe. Being talented doesn't guarantee anything. Hard work and a great attitude will carry the day in any endeavor that these kids do. So what if there are more talented kids on one team, than the other? It doesn't make anybody a better kid as a whole. Just means they have better more talented hockey players. Pure and simple.

edgeless2 · Post by **edgeless2** » Mon May 21, 2012 2:59 pm

Spehar33 wrote:Tonka man...by referring to the "stage" I'm talking about a an elite game for the age group. And yes, some kids are not at that level. How is that arrogant? It is a fun rivalry, and both teams are always looking to get better. Why? because they want to beat the other and have the best team possible. It is what it is.

Referring to little kids as more talented? What's wrong with that? Ask any first grade teacher...city league soccer coach...chess instructor...karate master about kids they teach and you don't think they know if there are more "talented" kids in the group and kids that are not as talented or smart or athletic or whatnot? Your dreaming. Kids have talents in all different areas as we all know, or would like to believe. Being talented doesn't guarantee anything. Hard work and a great attitude will carry the day in any endeavor that these kids do. So what if there are more talented kids on one team, than the other? It doesn't make anybody a better kid as a whole. Just means they have better more talented hockey players. Pure and simple.

Dave is that really you?

Spehar33 · Post by **Spehar33** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:15 pm

Yes. Yes it is. After my storied high school career and college experiences, I've decided to completely immerse myself in the goings-on with the 2002 crowd!

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Spehar33 wrote:Yes. Yes it is. After my storied high school career and college experiences, I've decided to completely immerse myself in the goings-on with the 2002 crowd!

Now that's funny.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:49 pm

checco33 wrote:The Machine Orange...aka Machine Black...took the championship for the 02's. Edged Euro American 4-3 and beat Manitoba 4-1 for the hardware. Nice going Orange..(with a few machine black kids hitting the ice now and then)

Someone needs a hug.

hockeygoof1 · Post by **hockeygoof1** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:03 pm

The MG folks worry so much about the Machine. Who cares? How'd the '99 Miracle Gold do last weekend?

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:09 pm

Why would anyone care who the Machine camp plays as player in the tournys as long as they play the invite level? Org or Blk? Get over it by now. I can assure you that it will never change. Your cry's are falling on deaf ears. Someone may need more then a hug...

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:28 pm

Congrats to the 03 Blades! Won the one that counted!

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon May 21, 2012 11:15 pm

MNM JMH wrote:
Spehar33 wrote:Yes. Yes it is. After my storied high school career and college experiences, I've decided to completely immerse myself in the goings-on with the 2002 crowd!
Now that's funny.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Tue May 22, 2012 6:45 am

Spehar33 wrote:Tonka man...by referring to the "stage" I'm talking about a an elite game for the age group. And yes, some kids are not at that level. How is that arrogant? It is a fun rivalry, and both teams are always looking to get better. Why? because they want to beat the other and have the best team possible. It is what it is.

Referring to little kids as more talented? What's wrong with that? Ask any first grade teacher...city league soccer coach...chess instructor...karate master about kids they teach and you don't think they know if there are more "talented" kids in the group and kids that are not as talented or smart or athletic or whatnot? Your dreaming. Kids have talents in all different areas as we all know, or would like to believe. Being talented doesn't guarantee anything. Hard work and a great attitude will carry the day in any endeavor that these kids do. So what if there are more talented kids on one team, than the other? It doesn't make anybody a better kid as a whole. Just means they have better more talented hockey players. Pure and simple.

Talent is innate. The separation that you are trying to create in your own delusional mind has to do with earlier development brought on by more training, ice time, and frankly, money. The less-talented kids, as you call them, may be developing their talent at a slower, more reasonable pace. Don't make the mistake of labeling them at 10 years old.

knights58 · Post by **knights58** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:30 am

checco33 · Post by **checco33** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 am

Mg guys are woried about the machine?? Who's worried about them at the 02 level? I've seen them all and the blades are much better....as they showed in chicago with a dominant performance. If you want to worry about the class of the 02 level, you would worry about the blades...not machine. By the way....talking to blades people, I hate to tell you who they thought was a tougher team to play between euro and the machine....because it wasn't the "elite" team they all mentioned but the "solid" team. Now..apparently I need a hug because I somehow attacked or spoke evil about the elite organization of minnesota hockey....so who is gonna step up and give me one?

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Tue May 22, 2012 8:14 am

checco33 wrote:Mg guys are woried about the machine?? Who's worried about them at the 02 level? I've seen them all and the blades are much better....as they showed in chicago with a dominant performance. If you want to worry about the class of the 02 level, you would worry about the blades...not machine. By the way....talking to blades people, I hate to tell you who they thought was a tougher team to play between euro and the machine....because it wasn't the "elite" team they all mentioned but the "solid" team. Now..apparently I need a hug because I somehow attacked or spoke evil about the elite organization of minnesota hockey....so who is gonna step up and give me one?

Seen them all too and they are all too close to say who is better. It really depends on the day. Funny how some eurodads/mgdads seem to have this well developed inferiority complex when it comes to anything orange.

youngatheart · Post by **youngatheart** » Tue May 22, 2012 10:43 am

The 02' Machine Black team just beat Euro in the tournament. Right?? Checco your remarks are confusing as usual.

"I'm a Blades guy...don't hold that against me " (From past post of Checco) Not sure that everyone should put a lot of merit into his/her unbiased opinion.

I wasn't in Chicago. I did hear that the 02 Machine tied the team that beat the Blades in the Championship. I did watch the 02 Machine against the 02' Jets. Good game that could have gone either way in the third. Any given day when you have 10 year olds. Time to move on with this "Blades guy" Checco.....

I hate to admit it...I think I just agreed with HockeyDad41..Sorry everyone

mnhockey2019 · Post by **mnhockey2019** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:08 am

checco33 wrote:Mg guys are woried about the machine?? Who's worried about them at the 02 level? I've seen them all and the blades are much better....as they showed in chicago with a dominant performance. If you want to worry about the class of the 02 level, you would worry about the blades...not machine. By the way....talking to blades people, I hate to tell you who they thought was a tougher team to play between euro and the machine....because it wasn't the "elite" team they all mentioned but the "solid" team. Now..apparently I need a hug because I somehow attacked or spoke evil about the elite organization of minnesota hockey....so who is gonna step up and give me one?

I would say from seeing all 4 teams play, my ratings for the summer season so far would be: Blades, Machine, EA, MG, and contrary to what checco says, I think the Machine/Blades game would be the most closely contested game, not EA/Blades. From talking to Blades people, there were a bunch of Machine/Blades scrimmages scheduled that ended up being cancelled by one of the sides. Too bad -- would have been good contests. Also, since there have been some complaints here regarding the Black using Orange players to win the 02 Invite level, lets remember that the 02 Blades played at the 01 Invite level, so without going out on too small of a limb, the 02 results would have been different if the Blades had played at their birth year level.

Spehar33 · Post by **Spehar33** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:00 pm

Nick Checco, is that really you? Long time, no see...eh buddy? Hey Checco, I think your premature balding may have been affecting your brain capacities. I would not call the Blades beating the Machine in Chicago, "dominant". It was 4-1. The Machine is going through a transition with Bernie taking over the Orange, so a lot of kids are getting used to it and the first couple of tournaments have been a feeling out process of where best to put kids. Development was a higher priority. No big deal, they are 10 right? It is hard to assign rankings because they are 10. As we see in the NHL, NCAA and even at HS last year with LVS beating DE at State that the most talented team doesn't always win. The 02 Orange is vastly more talented than the Blades. The Blades have a bunch of little, scrappy hockey players that one day will make some nice Dan Labosky's & other little HS superstars. The 02 Orange has got some big time athletes that are figuring out their roles. The Orange embarrased them in Winnipeg last year and won the Caribou over them...so I don't know how one game in Chicago can change the perception that the Blades are somehow better. If you had to pick the most talented kids for one team between the two teams, 10 of the 15 would be from the Machine along with both Machine goalies.

Also, about the comment about the Blades playing at the 01 level. The Blades played at the 02 level last year...and didn't even make it to the championship game!! They lost to Synergy/Euro in the semi's. And Euro beat Machine Black. So, it makes sense to get ready for the Brick that they'd move up, but they couldn't even win their own level last year so they would've had a lot of trouble with either Euro or MB this year.

Like I said, anyone can hang or beat anyone on any given day...the nature of young hockey players...but in terms of talent, it's any easy call.

1. Orange
2. a) Blades
b) Machine Black
3. Euro America

Big gap
Then maybe Miracle Gold, Lake Superior Stars (if they have #74)

youngatheart · Post by **youngatheart** » Tue May 22, 2012 2:57 pm

Spehar...Let's not go overboard...The 02' Blades would beat the 02' Machine Black by 6 or more no matter what goalie in net. Big difference in those teams...Do agree with most of what you say.

Timing is eveything. Co-worker just told me that 02' Blade assistant coaches lost it on refs during tournament taking multilpe bench minors and costing them the game. Co-worker is not good source... Confirmation on this???

Mo Wanchuk · Post by **Mo Wanchuk** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:07 pm

youngatheart wrote:

Timing is eveything. Co-worker just told me that 02' Blade assistant coaches lost it on refs during tournament taking multilpe bench minors and costing them the game. Co-worker is not good source... Confirmation on this???

I heard the same thing (didn't see it)........multiple bench minors in multiple games

Irisheyes02 · Post by **Irisheyes02** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:08 pm

Spehar33, ignorance must be bliss. Your "evaluation" is a slightly off based but I still enjoyed reading it. Thank you. The game is Chicago was dominated by the Blades. When Machine parents approach Blades parents and say, "what an embarassment" as in the Orange got smoked, I think that says something. Yes, there are actually Blades parents and Machine parents who are friends. Unbelievable I know! On the bright side, at least you got to go home a day earlier than planned which saved you some dough.

"The 02 orange is vastly more talented than the Blades." A pretty boastful statement from a team that has had little success. In the Stars & Stripes tourney, you played 3 powder puff games to ensure you got to the finals in your own tourney, one decently competitive game and got thoroughly out played by Winnipeg in the champ game. Winnipeg fans said their championship game was against the Blades. Yes, the speed and intensity level was that different. The Blades were given a tough schedule (which was great) by Bernard and finished 3-1-1. In the Independent, the Blades played at 2001 level and finished 3-1-1.

Your references to Winnipeg last year are frankly moronic. Both teams had been together for 2 mos and many of the kids (on both teams) who played up there last year aren't on either team this year. The goaltending was awful and hurt both teams. Year 1 doesn't mean a thing. Ask Bernie. He says the same thing which is why he waited to coach until year two.

Yes, the Blades and Machine were supposedly going to scrimmage a couple of times in May but Bernie changed his mind Doesn't want to help the Blades get ready for The Brick or some dumb excuse. Pretty funny view for 9 and 10 year old kids. Shouldn't the best two teams play each other?? I think most would say yes.

Good luck with your super talented team this summer. Perhaps you should let all your opponents start the game with a 1-0 lead. You are good enough to overcome it. Slow and robotic = Orange. Good day peops. It is always sunny in Philadelphia!!

Biscuitinthebasket · Post by **Biscuitinthebasket** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:16 pm

from credible source (who was at game), refs were from Princeton and have a track record of being terrible. blades given a 5 minute major for baording then Blades kid got hit from behind in front of ref and no call. no calls against Miracle Gold in final two periods. Blades were short majority of 3rd period. Yes, coaches were all over the refs and got 2, maybe 3 bench minors. it was a sight to behold how bad the refs were. Head ref was 5'2 and 250 pounds. other ref literally couldn't skate. Good job Capra!!

Mo Wanchuk · Post by **Mo Wanchuk** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:19 pm

Irisheyes02 wrote:Spehar33, ignorance must be bliss. Your "evaluation" is a slightly off based but I still enjoyed reading it. Thank you. The game is Chicago was dominated by the Blades. When Machine parents approach Blades parents and say, "what an embarassment" as in the Orange got smoked, I think that says something. Yes, there are actually Blades parents and Machine parents who are friends. Unbelievable I know! On the bright side, at least you got to go home a day earlier than planned which saved you some dough.

"The 02 orange is vastly more talented than the Blades." A pretty boastful statement from a team that has had little success. In the Stars & Stripes tourney, you played 3 powder puff games to ensure you got to the finals in your own tourney, one decently competitive game and got thoroughly out played by Winnipeg in the champ game. Winnipeg fans said their championship game was against the Blades. Yes, the speed and intensity level was that different. The Blades were given a tough schedule (which was great) by Bernard and finished 3-1-1. In the Independent, the Blades played at 2001 level and finished 3-1-1.

Your references to Winnipeg last year are frankly moronic. Both teams had been together for 2 mos and many of the kids (on both teams) who played up there last year aren't on either team this year. The goaltending was awful and hurt both teams. Year 1 doesn't mean a thing. Ask Bernie. He says the same thing which is why he waited to coach until year two.

Yes, the Blades and Machine were supposedly going to scrimmage a couple of times in May but Bernie changed his mind Doesn't want to help the Blades get ready for The Brick or some dumb excuse. Pretty funny view for 9 and 10 year old kids. Shouldn't the best two teams play each other?? I think most would say yes.

Good luck with your super talented team this summer. Perhaps you should let all your opponents start the game with a 1-0 lead. You are good enough to overcome it. Slow and robotic = Orange. Good day peops. It is always sunny in Philadelphia!!

You are such a fraud...........One of your recent, previous posts explicitly said you were the parent of an '02 Machine orange player.

Considering leaving orange to go with Blades to Brick.

Hint: You can look at a user's previous posts by employing the "profile" button.

Nice work!!!!

Irisheyes02 · Post by **Irisheyes02** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:29 pm

Dearest Mo Wanchuk, thank you for your message. Quite familiar with the how to on using the profile button but appreciate you caring enough to let me know. Question for you. Would I be a fraud if what I said still holds true? I would argue no. Have you seen the Brick roster? No, of course you haven't. At some point you will then I will kindly request a retraction of fraud comment.

slow and robotic = orange.

youngatheart · Post by **youngatheart** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:41 pm

Biscuit= Blades parent....Not my definition of credible source

Irish= Complete fraud...Lost all credibility with past posts...Last post makes you look even more like a moron...Love the quotes from the Machine parents and Winnipeg parents...Very accurate I'm sure...