Select 14's?

Ssm87 · Post by **Ssm87** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:09 pm

The intent is to give Mn kids a chance to be seen or compete for NTDP positions at the age of 14. Non-MN kids get a chance when they are 14 which puts MN kids at a disadvantage since they have to wait until they are 15. Less spots available.

Since MN hockey chose not to formalize the 14's it took other influences to bring some MN kids out to the NTDP. Insert your own thoughts or comments on the fairness or lack of fairness in how players were asked but since MN chose not to formalize the 14's someone else did.

I agree with Softee that they will find you if you are good enough but couldn't you say that being asked to go on this trip could be part of the "if your good enough they will find you" process?

Softee · Post by **Softee** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:27 pm

So I have a qestion. "What will these kis do if they do not make the NPDT at 14"? "Will they try again next season and will they make the trip again"? Well these so call elite players skip the Minnesota Hockey process the true way to get your name in front of college coaches? I am just asking so please be kind as these are really question for a coach that get these questions all the time!

Ssm87 · Post by **Ssm87** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:49 pm

My guess is why you are struggling with this is that you expect hockey to be pure, transparent and follow a published step by step process but it doesn't work that way.

For instance, HS teams are picked long before tryouts, kids are identified outside of public settings and there are relationships that foster opportunities that other players do not get a sniff at. Not saying what is right or wrong but thinking you want all opportunities to be equal and fair and that isn't going to happen.

There maybe one or two kids they decide to keep an eye on from this trip. Maybe it will be zero. But if they do identify a player my guess it will be a worthwhile trip for that kid.

Lastly, I don't think this trip gets the players they are not interested any closer to their HS team or college or juniors or the NHL. Why can't it be a fun trip and cool experience?

goaliewithfoggedglasses · Wed May 30, 2012 1:49 pm

Ssm87 wrote:My guess is why you are struggling with this is that you expect hockey to be pure, transparent and follow a published step by step process but it doesn't work that way.

Not hockey in general because we all know it is not these things. What I would expect though is that USA Hockey, the organization we all fund, would not allow 2 random guys to be the arbiters of talent for this age group in all of Minnesota without any form of documented selection process open to all eligible participants.

2112 · Post by **2112** » Wed May 30, 2012 2:31 pm

Softee wrote:First off I have no skin in the game, and no I have no axe to grind just want to tell the truth. If you can to USA Hockey’s website and view this so called national exposer tournament I would be glad to stop telling the truth. You make reference to evaluators at St. Cloud what are you talking about is there such a camp for 14 year olds? Again I will state if you’re good enough they will find you! As to reference to experts I am just a coach and I don’t agree with this type of check book hockey as it will only create more helicopter parents and that is what is wrong with this sport!

Your comments have been anything but soft, no skin in the game?
St Cloud hosts select 15`s evaluation camp , they select the top kids that go to New York. Last year at least 2 kids got overlooked by the evaluators, these 2 kids got an open invitation to New York to participate in camp. One of these kids made the U16 team that went to Helsinki and then made the National team for next year.
This exposed some of the limitations of the Minnesota select 15 process, eg hidden agendas or built in biases of the Minnesota evaluators. If this kid did not have the chance to go to Ney York he would not have had the chance to go to Helsinki or the opportunity to play on National team for next year. You are right they will find you eventually but you may miss out on opportunities in the mean time.
This camp for Minnesota kids will give USA hockey a chance to evaluate some the top kids prior to the select 15`s next year.
Every evaluation has faults, due to the fact it is a subjective process and the select 14 may not be perfect but it is filling a need . The national process for 14`s has changed also, no New York camp, kids who are selected go to Ames for a week long camp.

Softee · Post by **Softee** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:34 pm

Holy cow take a deep breath. It seem you have all the answers but if you know these two kids how did they get there? They would have had to made the 102's in St. Cloud right?

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:16 pm

Softee wrote:First off I have no skin in the game, and no I have no axe to grind just want to tell the truth. If you can to USA Hockey’s website and view this so called national exposer tournament I would be glad to stop telling the truth. You make reference to evaluators at St. Cloud what are you talking about is there such a camp for 14 year olds? Again I will state if you’re good enough they will find you! As to reference to experts I am just a coach and I don’t agree with this type of check book hockey as it will only create more helicopter parents and that is what is wrong with this sport!

I do agree with what you just wrote... However check book hockey is what it has become. Like others have said in other post. ICE TIME is king and cash is king. Sad but true. You can be great then everyone gets better and ice time really won't matter. What if you don't grow. You stay 5'5 150lbs till 11th /. 12th grade? Simply you don't move on. Johnny supper star is no longer. Oh what about that Nat Exp? Means nothing if you don't grow...

Softee · Post by **Softee** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:27 pm

Well said! But if parents would allow there children to be hockey kids vs what they believe is the correct way to develop it would be a perfect day! I believe that I have said all that I need and I wish these kids well on this trip and I hope they all get what they want out of this trip. One parting thought what if they don't make there District 15 team next year? Another trip with Betnie and Brian? Good luck

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:33 pm

[quote="Softee"]Well said! But if parents would allow there children to be hockey kids vs what they believe is the correct way to develop it would be a perfect day! I believe that I have said all that I need and I wish these kids well on this trip and I hope they all get what they want out of this trip. One parting thought what if they don't make there District 15 team next year? Another trip with Betnie and Brian? Good luck[/quote

Although Bellows kid is a good size, and a good player. For all other parents , Hope Johnny supper dud grows, sometime from 12-16 yrs old or the rest is true.

shooter803 · Post by **shooter803** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:59 pm

Although Jack Connolly is 5'8" & 170lbs & a Hobey Baker winner shows how hard work & dedication can get you to the next level as well

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:00 pm

On a side note,

If you don't spend the time driving you son all over, and spend the money on him to develop in regards to ice time. I.e. AAA teams or even better MNMade. Then when he is 15/16 you would have never known if he could move to the next level. From Mites to HS the goal is and was to keep your son moving to the next step. That step is not foreseen if you go without the ice times that the kids get today. Hey keep on living the dream for your kids. Dreams do come true. Isn't that what Disney quote is? If they don't make a collage team or even BETTER Juniors then at best hockey hopefully will keep them out of trouble.

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:04 pm

shooter803 wrote:Although Jack Connolly is 5'8" & 170lbs & a Hobey Baker winner shows how hard work & dedication can get you to the next level as well

Way to go Jack Connollys DAD. Nice post. You must be rich. Or once were. All that time on the ice. $$$$. J/K. Take it easy. Hopefully the wild pick him up.

GMANDAD · Post by **GMANDAD** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:30 pm

Does anyone know why Minnesota doesn't have a Select 14 program?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:04 pm

MNM JMH wrote:On a side note,

If you don't spend the time driving you son all over, and spend the money on him to develop in regards to ice time. I.e. AAA teams or even better MNMade. Then when he is 15/16 you would have never known if he could move to the next level. From Mites to HS the goal is and was to keep your son moving to the next step. That step is not foreseen if you go without the ice times that the kids get today. Hey keep on living the dream for your kids. Dreams do come true. Isn't that what Disney quote is? If they don't make a collage team or even BETTER Juniors then at best hockey hopefully will keep them out of trouble.

Did "collage" keep you out of trouble?

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:16 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
MNM JMH wrote:On a side note,

If you don't spend the time driving you son all over, and spend the money on him to develop in regards to ice time. I.e. AAA teams or even better MNMade. Then when he is 15/16 you would have never known if he could move to the next level. From Mites to HS the goal is and was to keep your son moving to the next step. That step is not foreseen if you go without the ice times that the kids get today. Hey keep on living the dream for your kids. Dreams do come true. Isn't that what Disney quote is? If they don't make a collage team or even BETTER Juniors then at best hockey hopefully will keep them out of trouble.
Did "collage" keep you out of trouble?

No it did not. But mom and dad didn't find out. And if they did it wasn't so shamefully.

MNM JMH · Post by **MNM JMH** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 pm

GMANDAD wrote:Does anyone know why Minnesota doesn't have a Select 14 program?

Ya. Way to many dads with there options. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Wed May 30, 2012 10:53 pm

Softee wrote:First off I have no skin in the game, and no I have no axe to grind just want to tell the truth. If you can to USA Hockey’s website and view this so called national exposer tournament I would be glad to stop telling the truth. You make reference to evaluators at St. Cloud what are you talking about is there such a camp for 14 year olds? Again I will state if you’re good enough they will find you! As to reference to experts I am just a coach and I don’t agree with this type of check book hockey as it will only create more helicopter parents and that is what is wrong with this sport!

Softee, Well Stated. People work hard to send their kids all over North America to play hockey. Please don't take away the parents dream.... I mean kids dream to play D1 or maybe even Pro hockey.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu May 31, 2012 9:37 am

Does anyone know why Minnesota doesn't have a Select 14 program?

No but it should change. This hand-picked bunch traveling to MI will probably force MN Hockey's hand to ask USA Hockey to participate next year. I believe you will see more and more Minnesota players at high levels now that there are so many excellent summer training options for our players. I also believe you might as well start getting them attention earlier if players from other states have that opportunity. Hockey players are now coming from 20-30 States instead of 6.

Trash Hauler · Post by **Trash Hauler** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am

observer wrote:
Does anyone know why Minnesota doesn't have a Select 14 program?
No but it should change. This hand-picked bunch traveling to MI will probably force MN Hockey's hand to ask USA Hockey to participate next year. I believe you will see more and more Minnesota players at high levels now that there are so many excellent summer training options for our players. I also believe you might as well start getting them attention earlier if players from other states have that opportunity. Hockey players are now coming from 20-30 States instead of 6.

Can you show any details on USA Hockey Select 14 program, that Minnesota Hockey does not participate in other than Girl's? A group of boys traveling to Ann Arbor on a sight seeing trip certainly is not part of the USA Hockey Select 14 program.

http://usahockey.com/players/player_dev ... camps.aspx

GMANDAD · Post by **GMANDAD** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:41 pm

Trash Hauler wrote:
observer wrote:
Does anyone know why Minnesota doesn't have a Select 14 program?
No but it should change. This hand-picked bunch traveling to MI will probably force MN Hockey's hand to ask USA Hockey to participate next year. I believe you will see more and more Minnesota players at high levels now that there are so many excellent summer training options for our players. I also believe you might as well start getting them attention earlier if players from other states have that opportunity. Hockey players are now coming from 20-30 States instead of 6.
Can you show any details on USA Hockey Select 14 program, that Minnesota Hockey does not participate in other than Girl's? A group of boys traveling to Ann Arbor on a sight seeing trip certainly is not part of the USA Hockey Select 14 program.

http://usahockey.com/players/player_dev ... camps.aspx

http://maha.org/SelectCampsAndTeamMichigan.aspx
http://www.waha-hockey.com/boys_develop ... camps.html
http://www.tristatehockey.com/page/show ... evelopment
http://houstonhitmen.com/
http://www.azamateurhockey.org/page/sho ... ment-camps
http://www.ahai.org/page/show/270710-bo ... evelopment
http://www.jyhockey.org/
http://www.mohockeyyd.org/

Trash Hauler · Post by **Trash Hauler** » Thu May 31, 2012 2:02 pm

GMANDAD wrote:
Trash Hauler wrote:
observer wrote: No but it should change. This hand-picked bunch traveling to MI will probably force MN Hockey's hand to ask USA Hockey to participate next year. I believe you will see more and more Minnesota players at high levels now that there are so many excellent summer training options for our players. I also believe you might as well start getting them attention earlier if players from other states have that opportunity. Hockey players are now coming from 20-30 States instead of 6.
Can you show any details on USA Hockey Select 14 program, that Minnesota Hockey does not participate in other than Girl's? A group of boys traveling to Ann Arbor on a sight seeing trip certainly is not part of the USA Hockey Select 14 program.

http://usahockey.com/players/player_dev ... camps.aspx
http://maha.org/SelectCampsAndTeamMichigan.aspx
http://www.waha-hockey.com/boys_develop ... camps.html
http://www.tristatehockey.com/page/show ... evelopment
http://houstonhitmen.com/
http://www.azamateurhockey.org/page/sho ... ment-camps
http://www.ahai.org/page/show/270710-bo ... evelopment
http://www.jyhockey.org/
http://www.mohockeyyd.org/

Thanks for the information on District Select 14 prgrams. While this information shows that some USA Hockey DISTRICTS have a "Select 14" program, that is run entirely inside of their DISTRICT it fails to provide any information on any National Select 14 program where each USA Hockey District would send players to a national camp. In trying to answer the question of why Minnesota Hockey does not participate in the Select 14 program, the information provided shows that there is no National Select 14 program to participate in. This question would only apply to Girls Hockey, where there is indeed a National Select 14 program (which Minnesota Hockey does not participate in) A group of boys going to Ann Arbor is not in any way affiliated with the USA Hockey Select programs and I fail to see why this would "force" Minnesota Hockey to particpate in a program that does not exist.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu May 31, 2012 4:06 pm

The USA Hockey NTDP has 2 teams U17 and U18, a supposed try-out for 14 year old player to be seen and have a leg up sounds like a great sales pitch. What happens when these elite 14 year olds can not make their District 15 team next year. For those that go enjoy the trip and have fun but as to this being anything USA Hockey is involved with I highly doubt it.

As to why no 14 program for Mn Hockey,it was brought up a few years ago and turned down. Some of the reasons were costs per player, format which was different as it would only be for the state no national camp attendees. At the time a 2/3 majority felt that it would be better to keep the Advance program as is.

2112 · Post by **2112** » Thu May 31, 2012 4:49 pm

[quote="greybeard58"]The USA Hockey NTDP has 2 teams U17 and U18, a supposed try-out for 14 year old player to be seen and have a leg up sounds like a great sales pitch. What happens when these elite 14 year olds can not make their District 15 team next year. For those that go enjoy the trip and have fun but as to this being anything USA Hockey is involved with I highly doubt it.

When the elite 14 year old does not make the select 15 the next year, USA hockey can give them an open invite to the New York camp. This happened last year, you must believe the select 15 process gets the best kids to New York. It obviously doesn`t, when a kid get passed on in St Cloud and gets an open invite to New York and then make the U16 team then the national program team , their must be a problem with the Minnesota process. To many biases and hidden agendas with evaluators.

Softee · Post by **Softee** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:38 pm

You just have to have a name like..... Then you get invited to everything then in the end you play for small college team . 2112 sounds like your kid was on the outside looking in? Because your in the know but you don't have the full story!

GMANDAD · Post by **GMANDAD** » Thu May 31, 2012 9:49 pm

Trash Hauler wrote:
GMANDAD wrote:
Trash Hauler wrote: Can you show any details on USA Hockey Select 14 program, that Minnesota Hockey does not participate in other than Girl's? A group of boys traveling to Ann Arbor on a sight seeing trip certainly is not part of the USA Hockey Select 14 program.

http://usahockey.com/players/player_dev ... camps.aspx
http://maha.org/SelectCampsAndTeamMichigan.aspx
http://www.waha-hockey.com/boys_develop ... camps.html
http://www.tristatehockey.com/page/show ... evelopment
http://houstonhitmen.com/
http://www.azamateurhockey.org/page/sho ... ment-camps
http://www.ahai.org/page/show/270710-bo ... evelopment
http://www.jyhockey.org/
http://www.mohockeyyd.org/
Thanks for the information on District Select 14 prgrams. While this information shows that some USA Hockey DISTRICTS have a "Select 14" program, that is run entirely inside of their DISTRICT it fails to provide any information on any National Select 14 program where each USA Hockey District would send players to a national camp. In trying to answer the question of why Minnesota Hockey does not participate in the Select 14 program, the information provided shows that there is no National Select 14 program to participate in. This question would only apply to Girls Hockey, where there is indeed a National Select 14 program (which Minnesota Hockey does not participate in) A group of boys going to Ann Arbor is not in any way affiliated with the USA Hockey Select programs and I fail to see why this would "force" Minnesota Hockey to particpate in a program that does not exist.

The links below appear to contradict that the Select 14 program is run entirely inside of the USA Hockey District.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

You are correct in that there is currently no National Select 14 program to participate in. What you did not mention is that last year every USA Hockey District sent 14s to the national camp with the exception of the Minnesota District.

Why would the "State of Hockey" not participate in the new Select 14 program at the USA Hockey District level that replaced the national camp?
It seems to me that $600 is a bargain for a week long camp.