Select 14's?

[Trash Hauler]

http://maha.org/SelectCampsAndTeamMichigan.aspx
http://www.waha-hockey.com/boys_develop ... camps.html
http://www.tristatehockey.com/page/show ... evelopment
http://houstonhitmen.com/
http://www.azamateurhockey.org/page/sho ... ment-camps
http://www.ahai.org/page/show/270710-bo ... evelopment
http://www.jyhockey.org/
http://www.mohockeyyd.org/

Thanks for the information on District Select 14 prgrams. While this information shows that some USA Hockey DISTRICTS have a "Select 14" program, that is run entirely inside of their DISTRICT it fails to provide any information on any National Select 14 program where each USA Hockey District would send players to a national camp. In trying to answer the question of why Minnesota Hockey does not participate in the Select 14 program, the information provided shows that there is no National Select 14 program to participate in. This question would only apply to Girls Hockey, where there is indeed a National Select 14 program (which Minnesota Hockey does not participate in) A group of boys going to Ann Arbor is not in any way affiliated with the USA Hockey Select programs and I fail to see why this would "force" Minnesota Hockey to particpate in a program that does not exist.

The links below appear to contradict that the Select 14 program is run entirely inside of the USA Hockey District.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

You are correct in that there is currently no National Select 14 program to participate in. What you did not mention is that last year every USA Hockey District sent 14s to the national camp with the exception of the Minnesota District.

Why would the "State of Hockey" not participate in the new Select 14 program at the USA Hockey District level that replaced the national camp?
It seems to me that $600 is a bargain for a week long camp.

You imply that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. These programs were started by individual districts independantly, as they felt it was best for their district. I'm sure you don't intend to imply that what the Rocky Mountain District feels is best for them fits all other districts. Their circumstances are certainly not ours. USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth, and is likely to do the same with girls. Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. "Exposure" at 14 is simply not necessary. The teams in the Rocky Mountain District, among others, have a much harder time getting on the ice with other top players. We don't have that problem here. Minnesota has, and continues to lead the way in developing and promoting increasef competition at appropriate ages. There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts. The bottom line is, this can be done entirely within the Minnesota District. We have no shortage of talented 14 year olds and it is simply a bad idea to shorten the pyramid that much at 14.

Hopefully this puts to rest any implications that Bernie or anyone else is hand picking a group of players to participate in the "Select 14 program" as that was the original question on this thread.

Elite hockey players are developed with time and patience, not urgency. If Minnesota Hockey did what some posters on this board wanted, there would be a "Select 8 program", which of course, will not happen anytime soon. Identifying players as "elite" at too young an age is counterproductive and detrimental. This is why the "Select 14" program has been eliminated. This is the same reason there will no longer be a Pee Wee/12U National Championship. Too much, Too soon, with Too few, makes for less, not more elite players.

[O-townClown]

If Minnesota Hockey did what some posters on this board wanted, there would be a "Select 8 program",

My kid would have made that. LOL

Next week USA Hockey is voting on a rule change that will limit the number of foreign players on a youth team. If it passes, it will inevitably be called the "Wilkes-Barre rule" after last year's fiasco at Bantam nationals.

There were many good reasons to do away with Pee Wee nationals, and I'd liken it to regulating problem gamblers. Some people just can't help themselves. Like the man that spent a quarter-million dollars in a failed attempt to win his son a Pee Wee championship.

[GMANDAD]

Thanks for the information on District Select 14 prgrams. While this information shows that some USA Hockey DISTRICTS have a "Select 14" program, that is run entirely inside of their DISTRICT it fails to provide any information on any National Select 14 program where each USA Hockey District would send players to a national camp. In trying to answer the question of why Minnesota Hockey does not participate in the Select 14 program, the information provided shows that there is no National Select 14 program to participate in. This question would only apply to Girls Hockey, where there is indeed a National Select 14 program (which Minnesota Hockey does not participate in) A group of boys going to Ann Arbor is not in any way affiliated with the USA Hockey Select programs and I fail to see why this would "force" Minnesota Hockey to particpate in a program that does not exist.

The links below appear to contradict that the Select 14 program is run entirely inside of the USA Hockey District.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

You are correct in that there is currently no National Select 14 program to participate in. What you did not mention is that last year every USA Hockey District sent 14s to the national camp with the exception of the Minnesota District.

Why would the "State of Hockey" not participate in the new Select 14 program at the USA Hockey District level that replaced the national camp?
It seems to me that $600 is a bargain for a week long camp.

You imply that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. These programs were started by individual districts independantly, as they felt it was best for their district. I'm sure you don't intend to imply that what the Rocky Mountain District feels is best for them fits all other districts. Their circumstances are certainly not ours. USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth, and is likely to do the same with girls. Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. "Exposure" at 14 is simply not necessary. The teams in the Rocky Mountain District, among others, have a much harder time getting on the ice with other top players. We don't have that problem here. Minnesota has, and continues to lead the way in developing and promoting increasef competition at appropriate ages. There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts. The bottom line is, this can be done entirely within the Minnesota District. We have no shortage of talented 14 year olds and it is simply a bad idea to shorten the pyramid that much at 14.

Hopefully this puts to rest any implications that Bernie or anyone else is hand picking a group of players to participate in the "Select 14 program" as that was the original question on this thread.

Elite hockey players are developed with time and patience, not urgency. If Minnesota Hockey did what some posters on this board wanted, there would be a "Select 8 program", which of course, will not happen anytime soon. Identifying players as "elite" at too young an age is counterproductive and detrimental. This is why the "Select 14" program has been eliminated. This is the same reason there will no longer be a Pee Wee/12U National Championship. Too much, Too soon, with Too few, makes for less, not more elite players.

I did not imply anything about .."that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. " I read the links posted above which includes the following and made my own conclusion.
Why was the National Boys Select 14 Camp discontinued?
USA Hockey discontinued the national 14 Boys camp to give more players a national
camp experience. Statistics show that of the players selected to go to the 14 camp from
any district only about 20% will go to all four camps with about a 50% turnover each
year. By creating regional select camps more players will have the experience of high
level development and education on training and potential hockey career paths.
What is the format of the camp?
The camp will be very similar to a USA Hockey National Select Camp. The players will
be placed on teams upon arrival. There will be two ice sessions per day with additional
off ice sessions and seminars. The emphasis of the camp will be on player development
and education.

Furthermore you state "USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth," it is obvious to me that what happened is that they pushed the national camp down to the USA Hockey district level to give more individuals the experience at 14.

I disagree in your view that " Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. " They way I see it is that 14 year olds around the country will be evaluated by USA Hockey National staff and Minnesota kids will not.

You say "There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts." Please give details I think a lot of individuals would be interested in this. Great discussion.

[Trash Hauler]

The links below appear to contradict that the Select 14 program is run entirely inside of the USA Hockey District.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... _27_12.pdf

You are correct in that there is currently no National Select 14 program to participate in. What you did not mention is that last year every USA Hockey District sent 14s to the national camp with the exception of the Minnesota District.

Why would the "State of Hockey" not participate in the new Select 14 program at the USA Hockey District level that replaced the national camp?
It seems to me that $600 is a bargain for a week long camp.

You imply that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. These programs were started by individual districts independantly, as they felt it was best for their district. I'm sure you don't intend to imply that what the Rocky Mountain District feels is best for them fits all other districts. Their circumstances are certainly not ours. USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth, and is likely to do the same with girls. Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. "Exposure" at 14 is simply not necessary. The teams in the Rocky Mountain District, among others, have a much harder time getting on the ice with other top players. We don't have that problem here. Minnesota has, and continues to lead the way in developing and promoting increasef competition at appropriate ages. There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts. The bottom line is, this can be done entirely within the Minnesota District. We have no shortage of talented 14 year olds and it is simply a bad idea to shorten the pyramid that much at 14.

Hopefully this puts to rest any implications that Bernie or anyone else is hand picking a group of players to participate in the "Select 14 program" as that was the original question on this thread.

Elite hockey players are developed with time and patience, not urgency. If Minnesota Hockey did what some posters on this board wanted, there would be a "Select 8 program", which of course, will not happen anytime soon. Identifying players as "elite" at too young an age is counterproductive and detrimental. This is why the "Select 14" program has been eliminated. This is the same reason there will no longer be a Pee Wee/12U National Championship. Too much, Too soon, with Too few, makes for less, not more elite players.

I did not imply anything about .."that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. " I read the links posted above which includes the following and made my own conclusion.
Why was the National Boys Select 14 Camp discontinued?
USA Hockey discontinued the national 14 Boys camp to give more players a national
camp experience. Statistics show that of the players selected to go to the 14 camp from
any district only about 20% will go to all four camps with about a 50% turnover each
year. By creating regional select camps more players will have the experience of high
level development and education on training and potential hockey career paths.
What is the format of the camp?
The camp will be very similar to a USA Hockey National Select Camp. The players will
be placed on teams upon arrival. There will be two ice sessions per day with additional
off ice sessions and seminars. The emphasis of the camp will be on player development
and education.

Furthermore you state "USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth," it is obvious to me that what happened is that they pushed the national camp down to the USA Hockey district level to give more individuals the experience at 14.

I disagree in your view that " Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. " They way I see it is that 14 year olds around the country will be evaluated by USA Hockey National staff and Minnesota kids will not.

You say "There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts." Please give details I think a lot of individuals would be interested in this. Great discussion.

USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth. It currently still operates in the girls program. Some Districts have decided to hold their own program at the 14 age group, some have not. It's really that simple.

District 6 and District 8 have begun running fall camps at this age level within the district. This is a district function, but others are likely to follow suit. This may very well morph into a state program, however these will likely be operated to provide "many players" the opportunity, rather than a few.

I respectfully disagree that 14 year olds will be evaluated by USA National team staff and Minnesota kids will not. Our mens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Our womens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Once Minnesota kids are 15's they are generously represented at the National Camps.

History has shown that a player not selected at the 14 level for National Camp, is less likely to participate in the Select tryouts the following year. 14 is too young to send em packing. This is obviously not the intent, but is definately the result of starting these programs at the age of 14.

[GMANDAD]

You imply that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. These programs were started by individual districts independantly, as they felt it was best for their district. I'm sure you don't intend to imply that what the Rocky Mountain District feels is best for them fits all other districts. Their circumstances are certainly not ours. USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth, and is likely to do the same with girls. Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. "Exposure" at 14 is simply not necessary. The teams in the Rocky Mountain District, among others, have a much harder time getting on the ice with other top players. We don't have that problem here. Minnesota has, and continues to lead the way in developing and promoting increasef competition at appropriate ages. There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts. The bottom line is, this can be done entirely within the Minnesota District. We have no shortage of talented 14 year olds and it is simply a bad idea to shorten the pyramid that much at 14.

Hopefully this puts to rest any implications that Bernie or anyone else is hand picking a group of players to participate in the "Select 14 program" as that was the original question on this thread.

Elite hockey players are developed with time and patience, not urgency. If Minnesota Hockey did what some posters on this board wanted, there would be a "Select 8 program", which of course, will not happen anytime soon. Identifying players as "elite" at too young an age is counterproductive and detrimental. This is why the "Select 14" program has been eliminated. This is the same reason there will no longer be a Pee Wee/12U National Championship. Too much, Too soon, with Too few, makes for less, not more elite players.

I did not imply anything about .."that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. " I read the links posted above which includes the following and made my own conclusion.
Why was the National Boys Select 14 Camp discontinued?
USA Hockey discontinued the national 14 Boys camp to give more players a national
camp experience. Statistics show that of the players selected to go to the 14 camp from
any district only about 20% will go to all four camps with about a 50% turnover each
year. By creating regional select camps more players will have the experience of high
level development and education on training and potential hockey career paths.
What is the format of the camp?
The camp will be very similar to a USA Hockey National Select Camp. The players will
be placed on teams upon arrival. There will be two ice sessions per day with additional
off ice sessions and seminars. The emphasis of the camp will be on player development
and education.

Furthermore you state "USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth," it is obvious to me that what happened is that they pushed the national camp down to the USA Hockey district level to give more individuals the experience at 14.

I disagree in your view that " Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. " They way I see it is that 14 year olds around the country will be evaluated by USA Hockey National staff and Minnesota kids will not.

You say "There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts." Please give details I think a lot of individuals would be interested in this. Great discussion.

USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth. It currently still operates in the girls program. Some Districts have decided to hold their own program at the 14 age group, some have not. It's really that simple.

District 6 and District 8 have begun running fall camps at this age level within the district. This is a district function, but others are likely to follow suit. This may very well morph into a state program, however these will likely be operated to provide "many players" the opportunity, rather than a few.

I respectfully disagree that 14 year olds will be evaluated by USA National team staff and Minnesota kids will not. Our mens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Our womens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Once Minnesota kids are 15's they are generously represented at the National Camps.

History has shown that a player not selected at the 14 level for National Camp, is less likely to participate in the Select tryouts the following year. 14 is too young to send em packing. This is obviously not the intent, but is definately the result of starting these programs at the age of 14.

Players from the following states have the opportunity to participate in a camp modeled after the USA Hockey National Camp at 14, and some will be evaluated by the USA Hockey National Office Player Development/Coaching staff. Evaluations will be recorded and maintained at the National Office for future National Camp considerations.
Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and Utah.
In Minnesota if you are lucky enough to be in District 6 or District 8 you can participate in a Fall Camp which if I am not mistaken could include players in a 2 year span. (When is the last time District 8 had a Fall Camp?)
I fail to see how this provides “many players” the opportunity versus the rest of the USA at 14.
You don’t have to be sick to get better.

[Trash Hauler]

I did not imply anything about .."that these District programs are the "new Select 14 program" to replace the old Select 14 National Program. This is simply not the case. " I read the links posted above which includes the following and made my own conclusion.
Why was the National Boys Select 14 Camp discontinued?
USA Hockey discontinued the national 14 Boys camp to give more players a national
camp experience. Statistics show that of the players selected to go to the 14 camp from
any district only about 20% will go to all four camps with about a 50% turnover each
year. By creating regional select camps more players will have the experience of high
level development and education on training and potential hockey career paths.
What is the format of the camp?
The camp will be very similar to a USA Hockey National Select Camp. The players will
be placed on teams upon arrival. There will be two ice sessions per day with additional
off ice sessions and seminars. The emphasis of the camp will be on player development
and education.

Furthermore you state "USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth," it is obvious to me that what happened is that they pushed the national camp down to the USA Hockey district level to give more individuals the experience at 14.

I disagree in your view that " Minnesota is simply ahead of the curve in believing that it is counterproductive at the age of 14. " They way I see it is that 14 year olds around the country will be evaluated by USA Hockey National staff and Minnesota kids will not.

You say "There are some programs in place within Minnesota Hockey for higher end 14 year olds and more are being developed. This is happening both at the Minnesota hockey level and within the Minnesota Hockey Districts." Please give details I think a lot of individuals would be interested in this. Great discussion.

USA Hockey has eliminated the Select 14 program at youth. It currently still operates in the girls program. Some Districts have decided to hold their own program at the 14 age group, some have not. It's really that simple.

District 6 and District 8 have begun running fall camps at this age level within the district. This is a district function, but others are likely to follow suit. This may very well morph into a state program, however these will likely be operated to provide "many players" the opportunity, rather than a few.

I respectfully disagree that 14 year olds will be evaluated by USA National team staff and Minnesota kids will not. Our mens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Our womens National teams include Minnesota kids that did not participate in "Select 14" camps. Once Minnesota kids are 15's they are generously represented at the National Camps.

History has shown that a player not selected at the 14 level for National Camp, is less likely to participate in the Select tryouts the following year. 14 is too young to send em packing. This is obviously not the intent, but is definately the result of starting these programs at the age of 14.

Players from the following states have the opportunity to participate in a camp modeled after the USA Hockey National Camp at 14, and some will be evaluated by the USA Hockey National Office Player Development/Coaching staff. Evaluations will be recorded and maintained at the National Office for future National Camp considerations.
Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and Utah.
In Minnesota if you are lucky enough to be in District 6 or District 8 you can participate in a Fall Camp which if I am not mistaken could include players in a 2 year span. (When is the last time District 8 had a Fall Camp?)
I fail to see how this provides “many players” the opportunity versus the rest of the USA at 14.
You don’t have to be sick to get better.

Check out this years 15 list versus the other districts in the country and tell me our 14s arent getting a fair shake. You miss my point. 14 is too young.