Sports Specialization

[JSR]

I ll bet my house that when tryouts come around the first kid to pull a groin muscle, will be the kid that did NOT skate over the summer. Not he kid who did skate.. How do the experts explain that?

A pulled froin muscle is not an overuse/overtraining injury caused by and determined by long term activities with log term effects. It's an acute injury usually individualized by improper warmups, stretching or conditioning (or all three). The two aren't even equatable

I see your point,, but an injury is an injury, a bad groin tear can keep a player out for long time... Ask gaborik...

I don't disagree, a groin injuriy is painful, bad and can keep you out for a really long time during a specific season, but it's not hip replacement surgery for a "kid" under the age of 30 either.......

[SnowedIn]

I think those days "happened" I just don't think they happened with the frequency some think they did. Like I can see someone remembering doing that but I bet it happened 3 or 4 times a winter not 3 or 4 times a week. Especially back then, people worked harder and longer at chores and jobs, they didn't have time to spend waisting all day on a pond somewhere every day. I like the pond, I think it's a fun place to go but I do think the "glory" days are overstated to a degree in some respects.

I don't know. Watch the movie pond hockey. Those those guys were on the ice a ton. Gretzky was on the out door ice hours almost every day ice was available for hours at a time. It happened then and it still happens now for many kids. I know a lot of kids that are out on the rink 2-4 times a week for hours on end.

I do think that Blue has a point about people frowning on something people aren't willing are wanting to do. That we can see in every sport and activity that our kids are involved with and stems from parent character not a danger to the kids.

I don't disagree with the fact that there is alot of parental judgment out there.

I also think there are exceptions to every rule and there are probably some kids who skate a ton on the pond back then and now. I merely think that it's overstated that the masses did this all the time. I still think that the masses skate way more now than they did then, pond or no pond, and that the skating is harder, more purposeful and more intense than it was then. And as OG pointed out, the pond wasn't frozen in July and to my knowledge of reading his biographies etc.. Gretzky played outdoor sports in the summer (baseball and lacrosse to my knowledge)..... just taking summers off has a great deal of healing power toward overuse injuries, doctors say just 2 months off is huge recovery wise

Also, You say you know alot of kids out on the rink 4 times per week for hours on end..... when are they going to school, doing homework and going to their association practices? My boys skate in the winter about as much as I think a a boy who goes to school and plays for a team can skate and there isn't much time left after homework and practice and games to play on the ponds much more than maybe 1 day per week......

I agree that time off is a great healer. No question.

I don't think the masses ever did it or do it now. Only the people who really love it and are dedicated enough to make time to do it. There was a core of people and there is a core now and there will be a core of people in the future who do it like anyone in any sport who really love it.

The rinks are right in the neighborhood for most. During the week hitting the ice for an hour once or twice a week, before lights out, is not a big deal for the schedule. Weekends its easy to hit the ice for a few hours with a good group of kids. Boring for a couple of kids to skate for a few hours but get a good 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 or more, and some kids will go a long time.

[JSR]

I don't know. Watch the movie pond hockey. Those those guys were on the ice a ton. Gretzky was on the out door ice hours almost every day ice was available for hours at a time. It happened then and it still happens now for many kids. I know a lot of kids that are out on the rink 2-4 times a week for hours on end.

I do think that Blue has a point about people frowning on something people aren't willing are wanting to do. That we can see in every sport and activity that our kids are involved with and stems from parent character not a danger to the kids.

I don't disagree with the fact that there is alot of parental judgment out there.

I also think there are exceptions to every rule and there are probably some kids who skate a ton on the pond back then and now. I merely think that it's overstated that the masses did this all the time. I still think that the masses skate way more now than they did then, pond or no pond, and that the skating is harder, more purposeful and more intense than it was then. And as OG pointed out, the pond wasn't frozen in July and to my knowledge of reading his biographies etc.. Gretzky played outdoor sports in the summer (baseball and lacrosse to my knowledge)..... just taking summers off has a great deal of healing power toward overuse injuries, doctors say just 2 months off is huge recovery wise

Also, You say you know alot of kids out on the rink 4 times per week for hours on end..... when are they going to school, doing homework and going to their association practices? My boys skate in the winter about as much as I think a a boy who goes to school and plays for a team can skate and there isn't much time left after homework and practice and games to play on the ponds much more than maybe 1 day per week......

I agree that time off is a great healer. No question.

I don't think the masses ever did it or do it now. Only the people who really love it and are dedicated enough to make time to do it. There was a core of people and there is a core now and there will be a core of people in the future who do it like anyone in any sport who really love it.

The rinks are right in the neighborhood for most. During the week hitting the ice for an hour once or twice a week, before lights out, is not a big deal for the schedule. Weekends its easy to hit the ice for a few hours with a good group of kids. Boring for a couple of kids to skate for a few hours but get a good 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 or more, and some kids will go a long time.

Wish we had a decent outdoor rink or pond in our neighborhood. Doesn't exist around here, have to drive atleast 15 miles to find one around here..... I have a little tiny 22' x 34' rink I put in our back yard for my two boys that they used to love but now that they have gotten older (pee wee and mite age respectively) I don;t think it's as fun as it used to be since playing 1v1 isn't a ton of fun for long and it isn't big enough for 3v3 which is alot of fun I agree

[karl(east)]

This is an interesting topic, so I'll throw in a few observations, with the necessary disclaimer that I'm painting with a very broad brush and that there are obviously plenty of exceptions. These are just general trends I've seen over the past 8 years or so, mostly of high school aged/slightly younger players for the program I know best.

In general, players who specialize tend to be more likely to burn out. This isn't just a spontaneous process, though. There is usually some other factor--an injury, a decrease in playing time, disagreement with a coach, lower production, personal life issues, etc, that throws a wrench into things. From what I've seen, those who specialize don't take these setbacks as well as the more "balanced" kids. This only makes sense when you think about it; they've put all their eggs in one basket, and if that dream doesn't pan out, they may not have something else to fall back on. The multi-sport athletes tend to keep hockey in perspective a bit better than those who make hockey their life. (Though there are ways besides other sports to achieve that balance--strong academics, the arts, faith, etc.)

All of that said...the kids who do get the D-1 scholarships tend to be the ones who specialize. It seems to be a risk/reward proposition, though the risk can be minimized when players and their parents make sure there's a good sense of balance in life. Of course, no family will ever admit to being unbalanced, and no two kids will respond the exact same way to certain situations. It's easy enough to say "live a balanced life," but actually doing so, on the other hand...

Injuries are a different issue, and I don't think my sample size is big enough to say much on that.

[old goalie85]

Side note/not hockey. Watching ESPN highschool game tonight. Kid fron St. Pius Texas, quarterback going to A&m to play football. Throws a 97 mph fastball. Will go in the top ten this spring.[baseball] Dad does not let him touch a baseball from Aug thruogh Jan.

[O-townClown]

Side note/not hockey. Watching ESPN highschool game tonight. Kid fron St. Pius Texas, quarterback going to A&m to play football. Throws a 97 mph fastball. Will go in the top ten this spring.[baseball] Dad does not let him touch a baseball from Aug thruogh Jan.

1) Which is it? Is he going to A&M to play football or will he go Top 10 in the baseball draft? It won't be both.

2) Another nice story about a multi-sport athlete, but throwing a baseball hard has very little relevance to sports with a high skill component like tennis, golf, gymnastics, or hockey.

I'm a huge advocate for participation in multiple spots. Wise beyond his years, the thoughts from Karl are very insightful.

I remember my dad telling me how good Mauer was when he went to a Cretin High basketball game. #1 overall pick in baseball draft. National Player of the Year in football. All-Conference in basketball when he had spare time. Some are just incredible athletes. Rare. Gotta think part of the reason they are multi-sport athletes isn't because they see benefit in not specializing. Isn't it possible they just keep playing multiple because they are so good at them?

[YouthHockeyHub]

I'm honored to have started such a well thought out string.

Too many good posts to call out every one. Karl, loved your insights. Lots of truth in what you're saying.

Per my PM, would love to re-post it on our site as a follow up.

As a follow up to what I said in my post. My perception is that Hockey is one of the original "year round" sports in Minnesota. It has the worst name in the non-hockey circles. Every sport is now year round in some capacity.

Summer sports like baseball, lacrosse, and soccer all have a year round component. Basketball and Hockey have been at it (it seems to me) the longest.

[old goalie85]

I think gymnastics has been year round since late 70's early 80's.

[BadgerBob82]

o-town: I assume you mean the St. Pius Tx kid will not play for A&M and play pro baseball. But the point was the kid has committed to A&M AND is projected as a top 10 in the MLB Draft. Using guys like Mauer for examples are not good as he is an athletic freak of nature.

When speaking of hockey stories, I like the Phil Housley story. Possibly in the top 5 best MN Hockey players of all time. Followed the same development path as his brother Larry. Trained about the same off-ice too. But Phil did what Larry couldn't because he had something special. And wasn't until the World Jr's that I think people truly understood just how good he was. Point being, Phil was not a year round guy nor did he train like a world class athlete. Different era, but year round hockey doesn't make a Phil Housley.

Hockey players are born, not made!

[old goalie85]

Two year quarterback at SSP as well.

[O-townClown]

Bob, projecting the MLB Draft is real hard. Announcers get carried away. He's a "Top 10 talent" maybe, but if he goes to A&M there's no way he's getting selected in the 1st Round.

[BadgerBob82]

o-town: I think selecting any draft is hard! But if this kid's agent makes it known he would entertain pro baseball offers, and is truly that good, he will get drafted. And then sign. 20 year baseball players are more common than 20 year football players.

Oldgoalie: And Phil was a good hunter/fisherman!

[JSR]

o-town: I assume you mean the St. Pius Tx kid will not play for A&M and play pro baseball. But the point was the kid has committed to A&M AND is projected as a top 10 in the MLB Draft. Using guys like Mauer for examples are not good as he is an athletic freak of nature.

When speaking of hockey stories, I like the Phil Housley story. Possibly in the top 5 best MN Hockey players of all time. Followed the same development path as his brother Larry. Trained about the same off-ice too. But Phil did what Larry couldn't because he had something special. And wasn't until the World Jr's that I think people truly understood just how good he was. Point being, Phil was not a year round guy nor did he train like a world class athlete. Different era, but year round hockey doesn't make a Phil Housley.

Hockey players are born, not made!

I hate the phrase "hockey players are born, not made" because it's false. They are niether born nor made if you are talking the highest level of sport to be achieved. They are BOTH and always will be. Is there a genetic component that makes you more apt to be a better athlete and/or specifically hockey player, I'd bet there is. Will you be an NHL player based on that alone, never, no way not in a million years. It still takes the 10,000 hour rule, aka you still have to practice like a fiend to get there. That is why there are "lesser" naturally talented players than other more "natural" players that still make it to the pros while their more talented compatriots don't, it's the work ethic and the willingness to do what is necessary to MAKE yourself the player you need to be. That isn'[t born, that is developed and created over time.

[JSR]

Bob, projecting the MLB Draft is real hard. Announcers get carried away. He's a "Top 10 talent" maybe, but if he goes to A&M there's no way he's getting selected in the 1st Round.

I agree that baseball drafting is hard to predict. It's not the NFL or NBA etc.... on the flip side baseball will take a sure fire first round talent in the first round even if they play another sport. They figure they can lure them in the off season (see Russell Wilson) away from football and make their case with money etc..... Russell Wilson was not a first rounder but the sentiment applies... Wilson ended up coming back to football and is now stating for the Seahawks but it was not for not trying baseball at the minor league level during the non-football season at NC State, where his football coach finally got fed up with his baseball and sent him packing and our Badgers became the beneficiaries of his great athleticism.

[BadgerBob82]

JSR: Sorry that you didn't get my humor. A local self-appointed hockey guru has a slogan that for a fee, his facility "makes hockey players, they aren't born"

[JSR]

JSR: Sorry that you didn't get my humor. A local self-appointed hockey guru has a slogan that for a fee, his facility "makes hockey players, they aren't born"

Sorry, guess that one went over my head

[O-townClown]

But if this kid's agent makes it known he would entertain pro baseball offers, and is truly that good, he will get drafted. And then sign. 20 year baseball players are more common than 20 year football players.

In which case he won't be playing QB at A&M.

[JSR]

But if this kid's agent makes it known he would entertain pro baseball offers, and is truly that good, he will get drafted. And then sign. 20 year baseball players are more common than 20 year football players.

In which case he won't be playing QB at A&M.

Actually not true. See Russell Wilson (Badger QB from last year) as a prime example. Now technically Russell was not a first round draft pick but where he went in the draft is irrelevant to your point as Russell played out his full college QB eligibility between NC State and Wisconsin while ALSO playing professional baseball in the minor leagues during the off season.

[O-townClown]

JSR, a lot of guys play an NCAA sport and moonlight as a minor-league baseball player.

They fall way down in the draft.

[O-townClown]

I looked it up. Russell Wilson went 1,222nd in the 2007 Draft. Had he told major league clubs he was dropping football and would not attend college it would have been much higher.

[JSR]

Where he was drafted was not your point at the point you decided to say

"In which case he won't be playing QB at A&M."

Your point was clear that if he signed on to play baseball he would no longer be QB at A&M and that's not true. Wilson was merely an example of a player who SIGNED A CONTRACT and played in minors both in Tri-City Dust Devils in 2010 and the Asheville Tourists in 2011. It doesn;t matter where he was drafted just like it won't matter where this other cat is drafted. He can play BOTH if he's good enough. Last I recall there were a couple of guys named Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson who played both at the highest level not too terribly long ago. Not saying it happens with frequency but it is also not impossible as you are suggesting.

[O-townClown]

JSR, I don't have time to read all the posts. I didn't see the game. An announcer evidently said the kid was headed to A&M to play QB and was going to go Top 10 in the MLB Draft.

I'm calling B.S.

That's not how it works.

[edgeless2]

JSR, I don't have time to read all the posts. I didn't see the game. An announcer evidently said the kid was headed to A&M to play QB and was going to go Top 10 in the MLB Draft.

I'm calling B.S.

That's not how it works.

While I agree with OTC. I am calling BS on him not reading every post.

[O-townClown]

While I agree with OTC. I am calling BS on him not reading every post.

I generally try to on threads I am interested in, but last night I was out the door for practice.

[JSR]

JSR, I don't have time to read all the posts. I didn't see the game. An announcer evidently said the kid was headed to A&M to play QB and was going to go Top 10 in the MLB Draft.

I'm calling B.S.

That's not how it works.

What game???? Where were we talking about a game? I'm calling BS on otc not even knowing what he is arguing at this point...