21/22 Peewee players

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:15 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:What would a District Pooled Team be? Kinda like a co-op but potentially different associations, at different levels? (AA-C and Boys-Girls?)

Like what you suggested with this association pooling with the two that are already pooled.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:44 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
BadgerBob82 wrote:What would a District Pooled Team be? Kinda like a co-op but potentially different associations, at different levels? (AA-C and Boys-Girls?)
Like what you suggested with this association pooling with the two that are already pooled.

How about this?? AA teams that hold tryouts for all the kids in the district ?? Start at Peewee, and add midget MM mm.

This will allow the extra talented to opt for a higher level if they can make it.

Nothing would change for the A and B kids . Or, at the High School level.

Every one gets a shot at the apple.. I think that's what most people are asking for.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:56 pm

Q: So you are saying each District would have "blended" AA teams not association based AA teams? Then each association would have A-B-etc?

And lost me on the Midget thing?

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:17 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Q: So you are saying each District would have "blended" AA teams not association based AA teams? Then each association would have A-B-etc?

And lost me on the Midget thing?

Maybe not district based, maybe teh assocaitons that have AA now still can have it but tryouts are open to anyone that lives in the same district. So you could still have multiple AA teams in the same district and they are still assocaition based BUT with the AA ddesignation comes the ability for your kid to atleast tryout or that team regardless of where home association is....... Not saying this is Q's idea, it is my take on his idea

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:22 pm

The waiver process is available to handle those situations. (Provided AA is deemed a "level" not offered at their home association)

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:24 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:The waiver process is available to handle those situations. (Provided AA is deemed a "level" not offered at their home association)

You shouldn't need a waiver to do this...... You don't need one in WI to play at another assocation if it offers a higher level of play, all you have to do is make the team, make the team no waiver needed out clean without all the hassles....

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:53 pm

I think waivers are a good speed-bump. Aids in planning and requires foresight instead of impulsiveness.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:55 pm

Kinda like open enrolling for schools. It's allowed, but you have to ask and receive permission. Would hate for an extra 30 kids to show up on 1st day of school and the lunch lady runs out of beanie-weenie casserole.

57special · Post by **57special** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:08 pm

I played "A" hockey from Termites through Midget in a top ranked Metro Association with ten skaters and one or two goalies. Didn't hurt us any. With the right coaching the kids could really benefit.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:38 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Q: So you are saying each District would have "blended" AA teams not association based AA teams? Then each association would have A-B-etc?

And lost me on the Midget thing?

Yes ... What I'm saying is that teams would be made up of any kid that lives in the district. AA Elite ... No associations involved. Management, coaching, and all the other stuff would be handled by the District.

Association hockey would be the same as always A B etc....

AA Midget teams are needed so the kids you develop in the District AA model have a place to play other than high school if they prefer..

11 districts, maybe 8 teams depending on co-op agreements...

New state tournament for District AA teams sanctioned by USAH.
Also, Minnesota kids could play in National tournaments

It would be nice to see a National tournament at the NSC that involved Minnesota kids.

This would be real choice.. A novel concept in Minnesota Hockey

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:40 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:I think waivers are a good speed-bump. Aids in planning and requires foresight instead of impulsiveness.

The ultimate control tool ......Huh Bob?

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:11 pm

Q: You just dropped your kid off at the rink and complained about your association's administration right? If you would have ever been involved in the administration side of your association, you'd know that planning starts in June for the upcoming season. You make player number projections, plan number of teams at each level, coordinate the ice scheduling, schedule tournaments, etc. And you expect an association will be fine with 30 extra kids showing up for an "open" tryout for any team at any level in any association?

I think a waiver process is pretty simple. "I would like to tryout for X association as they offer X level of play and my home association doesn't"

APPROVED!

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:32 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Q: You just dropped your kid off at the rink and complained about your association's administration right? If you would have ever been involved in the administration side of your association, you'd know that planning starts in June for the upcoming season. You make player number projections, plan number of teams at each level, coordinate the ice scheduling, schedule tournaments, etc. And you expect an association will be fine with 30 extra kids showing up for an "open" tryout for any team at any level in any association?

I think a waiver process is pretty simple. "I would like to tryout for X association as they offer X level of play and my home association doesn't"

APPROVED!

Hey Bob,

Woodbury Bantam A said they would give me a waiver to play on their team. I know it's a drive, But my kid would have a lot better development playing with those guys because our A team just isn't as good as theirs .. I guess it would mean someone would have to fill his shoes here , But were doing whats best for the kid Right?

APPROVED ????

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:49 pm

Q: I assume you are mocking the current process?

What I said a valid waiver request is "My association provides B1 as the highest level of play. I would like my son to tryout for a neighboring association that provides A level hockey."

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:08 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Q: I assume you are mocking the current process?

What I said a valid waiver request is "My association provides B1 as the highest level of play. I would like my son to tryout for a neighboring association that provides A level hockey."

No Bob, I am not mocking the current process...

I am asking you to reply to the situation I outlined. In other words what is your reply to my request? If no .. Please give me the reason I can't play in Woodbury if they will have me.

I know your answer is that it is not a"VALID" waiver....

Like I said the ultimate power trip ...

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:56 pm

57special wrote:I played "A" hockey from Termites through Midget in a top ranked Metro Association with ten skaters and one or two goalies. Didn't hurt us any. With the right coaching the kids could really benefit.

Thanks

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Quasar

Wha?

You play where you live. If your association doesn't offer A you may be allowed to request a waiver to the association closest to yours. You're set.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:36 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:The waiver process is available to handle those situations. (Provided AA is deemed a "level" not offered at their home association)

I think this is an interesting question, to which I've not seen an answer. I appologize in advance if this is a dead horse on another thread.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:26 am

I like the idea of a district or multi-association AA team.

D16 problem is the logistics.
For the most part we are too far apart and limited and hoarded resources.
And the fact that if Bagley-Bemidji-Walker-Park Rapids (as an example) had AA it may ruin a B/C team in Bagley, Walker, Park Rapids by draing kids away.
In the metro area the problems created may not be the same but I cannot help think that there are some problems that may be difficult f not impossible to overcome.

Worth exploring the possibilities including a season outside the current season or split season....
Just trying to think while keyboarding....

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:33 am

Q: You understand your waiver request would denied under the current rules in MN Hockey? So correct, my answer is not a valid request.

If you are asking my opinion on your scenario, kinda hard to approve waiver requests for more wins in an upcoming season. Would need more information. How many wins do you think your kid will get back home? How many wins will Woodbury get? I mean if we're talking only 20 wins back home and 30 wins in Woodbury, for sure that's a valid waiver request.

Kids shouldn't have to lose more than 1/2 their games.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:39 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:I think waivers are a good speed-bump. Aids in planning and requires foresight instead of impulsiveness.

You missed the part about in WI you have to make that teams "A" team AND the other team has to be of a "higher level" for there to not be a waiver required (or if applied to MN it maybe would be AA or A but not B1 or lower.... and your assocaition doesn't offer AA). So based on that, actually making the "AA" (or "A") team is all the speed bump that is required. You can have 60 kids show up but only 17 tops are going to make the "A" team regardless of where they are from and let's face it theteam isn;t going to be made up of all outsideers so in likelyhood 50+ kids will be sent packing back to their home association if that were to happen, and even that isn't true here because one other important part is any and all assocations are limited in the number of incoming transfers from outside their residence area, that limit is two per age level per two year period, so in this case if 60 kids from outside the residence area show up 58 will be sent home, this rule applies for any association team that wants to be part of the state tourney etc.... . If you do not make the "A" team you are still beholden to your home assocation and would then need a waiver to transfer out. And trust me, kids and parents have all season and all summer to think about those decisions, they are rarely rarely rarely impulse decisions when it comes to leaving your home association ecause of these limitations but if you really have a kid who can make that team, can benefit from a better situation generally you will talk to that associations coaches before going to tryouts and get a good feel if it will be a good fit for you and them, its not a guarantee of making the team but the coaches will let you know if you should come and tryout so there are PELNTY of speed bumps in our scenario but still no actual waiver required if you clear those bumps. So I completely 100% respectfully disagree with you on this part knowing all those things.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:47 am

observer wrote:Quasar

Wha?

You play where you live. If your association doesn't offer A you may be allowed to request a waiver to the association closest to yours. You're set.

but that association is not required to accept said waiver

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:49 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:Q: You understand your waiver request would denied under the current rules in MN Hockey? So correct, my answer is not a valid request.

If you are asking my opinion on your scenario, kinda hard to approve waiver requests for more wins in an upcoming season. Would need more information. How many wins do you think your kid will get back home? How many wins will Woodbury get? I mean if we're talking only 20 wins back home and 30 wins in Woodbury, for sure that's a valid waiver request.

Kids shouldn't have to lose more than 1/2 their games.

What????? Where did his scenario suggest anything about winning or losing? Just because both offer "A" levels does not make their coaching, development, and practice situations the same. Development and coaching aren't wins and losses, the two are mutually exclusive they may go together but not necessarily and not at the expense of the more important one, that being the coaching and development.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:52 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:The waiver process is available to handle those situations. (Provided AA is deemed a "level" not offered at their home association)

currently there is no "AA" level---it's considered "A"...correct?

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:01 am

I was thinking the same thing, juice. Aren't these teams all 'A' but are being lumped into two different playoff formats dubbed 'AA' and 'A' for state tournament purposes only largely based on association size? So there really is no such thing as 'AA' in MN Hockey.

USA Hockey has a 'AA' designation. The difference between 'A' and 'AA' in USA Hockey is the 'AA' teams are squads that have declared themselves as National Tournament bound teams (Tier 2). There are still games between 'A' and 'AA' teams. In fact, it's actually kinda stupid and goes to the "more A's behind the name" ego, there is no more National Tournament for the Pee Wee age and I don't think there was one for the Squirt level yet there are still Squirt and Pee Wee teams out there dubbing themselves 'AA'. Omaha and Kansas City come to mind. In fact, I know of a couple tournaments this coming year where both Omaha and KC are bringing there 'AA' teams to 'A' tournaments in MN. No big deal, they are just letters. It's those association's top teams playing against the top association teams from MN. Actually, the MN teams still have the advantage due to the age difference thing.

If the conversation here is about putting together USAH National Tournament bound teams (AA) on a district level, sure, go ahead and have that conversation. First thing MN Hockey would have to do is change to USAH's calender year age groupings so they are on the same page.

If you are talking about MN Hockey's associations being competitive as National bound teams, however, I don't think you need district teams. Larger association's 'A' teams are equivalent to or better than most USAH 'AA' squads right now. Look at the results of the Fargo squirt tournament. Edina and EGF were the class of the 'A' bracket and there were USAH 'AA' squads playing in the 'B' bracket and losing.

All this A, AAA, AA, talk is making my head spin.