SEC Who Wins it???

D16Dad · Post by **D16Dad** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:45 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Because I want to !!

There is another thread you can add to as well
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29589

MinnGirlsHockey · Post by **MinnGirlsHockey** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:11 pm

Homer wrote:If the goalie from Eagan can play right away, I think Cretin could come in and surprise everyone. CDH looked pretty good against Stillwater in sections last year, but the goaltending was shaky.

Apparently she can, as she has been playing varsity and just beat her former school (I'm sure Eagan is not exactly thrilled). The family must have moved, as I don't believe public-to-private eligibility waivers are approved very often.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:37 pm

She played well vs FL last night.

Goalie-Dad · Post by **Goalie-Dad** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:04 am

MinnGirlsHockey wrote:
Homer wrote:If the goalie from Eagan can play right away, I think Cretin could come in and surprise everyone. CDH looked pretty good against Stillwater in sections last year, but the goaltending was shaky.
Apparently she can, as she has been playing varsity and just beat her former school (I'm sure Eagan is not exactly thrilled). The family must have moved, as I don't believe public-to-private eligibility waivers are approved very often.

Big surprise win for CDH last night over Roseville. Did the Eagan goalie play last night?

MinnGirlsHockey · Post by **MinnGirlsHockey** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:47 am

old goalie85 wrote:She played well vs FL last night.

According to the Hub game sheet, CDH's Senior goaltender actually played that night.

Goalie-Dad · Post by **Goalie-Dad** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:59 am

hockey21 wrote:I saw MV play a few times last year they really only played two lines most of the time and one of those kids on that top line whop graduated was very good. Their goalie played well down the stretch and one D played all the time #10. So to say they are deep my be a stretch they have a few top end kids who play all the time other kids just get to watch the game.

Good observation from last year. This year has been different. MV has an all new coaching staff. They are running 3 lines most of the time. The 4th line of JV girls has put in some ice time this year. The top line plays PP and usually starts each period, so their ice time will be more than other lines.

MV came back from a 2-0 first period deficit to beat Stillwater last night 4-3.

What has happened to WBL this year?

Why is Hastings playing so well?

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:28 am

I have also seen Mounds View play and they run one line nearly every other shift in close games. They had that line out most of the third period against Stillwater. One defenseman was double shifting often as well. I think every goal they scored came off that same line and their stats show they do nearly 100% of their scoring. Stillwater was using 4 lines most of the game.

Benfishin · Post by **Benfishin** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:54 pm

Mounds View has a nice club. Good first line and solid D and the team always works hard. Sutton may be the best D in the conference.

Not sure what is up with WBL. I know they have lost a lot of talent the last couple years but they are down much more they I thought they would be.

It appears that there is a lot of parity this year. Hastings has already beaten Stillwater, Roseville and Cretin. Great first line and a very good goalie. Big match-up with Mounds View next Tuesday. That should be a great game.

Forest Lake has a nice young team but may be a year or two away. Park has a couple nice players and East Ridge will be a tough beat. Woodbury just needs more numbers.

I still wouldn't count out Stillwater, Cretin or Roseville. They always seem to hit their stride in February.

Looks like a fun race in the SEC this year!

Bullgod · Post by **Bullgod** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:06 pm

What you are seeing in WBL is the result of a few down years at the association level. Too many parents involved only looking to benefit their own child. They didn't grow the girls side, they didn't try to develop all the girls, only daughters and friends. For WBL's sake I hope the current regime is looking at the bigger picture. A few years ago WBL could have the numbers for three teams at each level, not anymore.
Also, think back to the past few summers, you don't see too many WBL girls playing in the off season. Whether its the Advance program, jr. fest, prospects or summer tournaments. While top players from Edina, Tonka, Hill, BSM you see a handful at various events throughout the offseason.

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:30 am

old goalie85 wrote:So lake then SEC ??? Top five SEC vsLake ??

Thought I'd bring this to the top. Mid-way point of the season and the Lake teams are ranked 1,3,6,7,11 in AA, I would imagine the argument over the best/toughest conference in the state is over, correct? With Lake conference play about to heat up, there should be some good hockey to watch.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:33 pm

Well it's not that hard to be the best conference when you can pick and choose the teams you want in your conference. Take the top 5 teams of any conference and it will also be pretty good.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:53 pm

Tigers33 wrote:Take the top 5 teams of any conference and it will also be pretty good.

This didn't sound right to me, so I did a little homework. I took the conference standings as shown today on minnesota-scores.net
[ http://www.minnesota-scores.net/confsta ... 10&conf=-1 ]
and then looked up where the 5th place team in each of the 15 conferences stands and put them in order of their overall KRACH ranking. Shown below is each conference, its current 5th place team* and the overall KRACH ranking for that team:

1. Lake Conference - Edina - - - - - #12
2. South Suburban - Apple Valley - #22
3. Suburban East - Hastings - - - - #23
4. NW Suburban - Champlin Park - #35
5. Wright County - MoundWTonka - #40
6. Greater Minn. - E. Grand Forks - - #59
7. Missota Conf. - Northfield - - - - - #71
8. Classic Suburban - Henry Sibley - #76
9. Central Lakes - Fergus Falls - - - #82
10. Big 9 Conf. - Albert Lea - - - - - - #83
11. N. Suburban - Spring Lake Park - #94
12. Mississippi 8 - Cambridge* - - - #100
13. Tri-Metro - Minnehaha Acad. - - #113
14. South Central - Fairmont* - - - #115
15. Southwest - Worthington - - - - #120

* Conference has just four teams - this team is currently in 4th place.

Although this is in no way intended to represent an in-depth comparison of the conferences, I believe it's a quick and objective way of comparing the depth of each one by looking at the relative strength of their 5th place teams - a snapshot as of today. For sure it will look different when this season is over, and probably a lot different next year.

And another way to look at it would be to compare the conferences based on the AVERAGE overall KRACH rankings of ALL of the teams in each one...or you could do the same for all of the sections...projects for another day.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:12 pm

Krach is a load of Krach! Ask most coaches what they feel about the good ol Krach?

What I am trying to say is it wouldnt be very difficult to have the best conference when that conference only allows certain qualified teams into it. The Lake Conference put themselves in this position to be the best in each sport by hand picking the teams they wanted in their conference.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:15 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Tigers33 wrote:Take the top 5 teams of any conference and it will also be pretty good.
This didn't sound right to me, so I did a little homework.

I was thinking the same thing, so I averaged the KRACH rankings for the top 5 teams in each conference using numbers from today's KRACH rankings.

In increasing order:

Lake - 8.4
South Suburban - 17
Suburban East - 19.2
Northwest Suburban - 27.4
Greater Minnesota - 35.6
Lake Superior - 39.3
Independents - 45.8
Classic Suburban - 46
Missota - 50
Mississippi 8 - 54.6
Wright County - 57
North Suburban - 58.5
Central Lakes - 62.4
Big 9 - 68
Tri-Metro - 85.4
Mid State - 95.7
South Central - 103
Southwest - 113

If you remove the top and bottom three conferences I'd say Tigers33 comment is justified. But including these conferences and looking at the results geographically there is a huge metro bias.

If you like parity check out some Southwest conference games. Teams there have KRACH ratings of 92, 117, 118, 119 and 120. Nowhere else are teams as evenly matched.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:46 pm

Tigers33 wrote:Krach is a load of Krach! Ask most coaches what they feel about the good ol Krach?

What I am trying to say is it wouldnt be very difficult to have the best conference when that conference only allows certain qualified teams into it. The Lake Conference put themselves in this position to be the best in each sport by hand picking the teams they wanted in their conference.

Don't all of the conferences take a vote before letting a new team join? If they all decide on new members by vote, how is the Lake any different from the others? It does have the two biggest schools (EP and Wayzata) in the state, and they certainly don't want any new schools joining that can't compete, especially in football where school size means so much.

Conferences are always re-aligning, but they all attempt to achieve some balance in terms of demographics and competitive athletics while considering location to minimize travel expenses. To the extent they can achieve those goals, everybody wins.

I also disagree with you on KRACH system, especially now as we get into the last third of the season. Not saying it's perfect, and maybe QRF is just as good. But either one takes the human bias element out of the equation, and as with any computer-based ranking system, the more data you put into them the more accurate they become. To some extent a human-based poll is no different - just compare today's LPH ranking with their first one of the season. Since it's based on actual results, the current one is bound to be more accurate!

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:10 pm

Tigers33 wrote:Krach is a load of Krach! Ask most coaches what they feel about the good ol Krach?

What I am trying to say is it wouldnt be very difficult to have the best conference when that conference only allows certain qualified teams into it. The Lake Conference put themselves in this position to be the best in each sport by hand picking the teams they wanted in their conference.

You do realize that Edina, EP, Hopkins, Minnetonka and Wayzata are all right next to each other, right? I suppose St. Louis Park belongs there geographically. Would their addition make you feel better?

If KRACH isn't good enough for you, here's the average ranking for the top 5 teams in each conference using Dec 31 QRF rankings.

Lake - 6.4
South Suburban - 15.8
Suburban East - 18.2
Northwest Suburban - 20
Greater Minnesota - 44
Classic Suburban - 44.6
Missota - 49.4
Central Lakes - 50.6
Indipendents - 51
Mississippi 8 - 53
Big 9 - 56
Lake Superior - 57.5
North Suburban - 61.4
Tri-Metro - 53
Wright County - 63.4
Mid State - 95.3
South Central - 96.5
Southwest - 110.2

A little movement in the middle, but the order mostly agrees.

Pens4 · Post by **Pens4** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:37 pm

I hate to say it... but as far the Lake Conference is concerned, the Hockey programs at the respective schools had little input in the formation of the conference...it was the Football programs. The Wayzata's and Minnetonka's and EP couldn't get teams to play them. The Bloomington schools wanted out along with others. I initially thought it was a negative but when seeing the opportunity to ramp up the non- conference schedule....I think its a positve.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:26 pm

Pens4 wrote:I hate to say it... but as far the Lake Conference is concerned, the Hockey programs at the respective schools had little input in the formation of the conference...it was the Football programs.

This is correct - when it comes to conferences, and which schools end up where, football is the big driver. It just so happens that with hockey, the western and southwestern suburbs also have a lot of really good hockey players, both boys and girls.