Wayzata Hockey Development

[OBOY]

I know there was an early post about EP, but I have to ask about Wayzata!!! This is not intended to be a rip on Wayzata...

Do they really have a development model that works? I was looking at there 2 A-squirt teams today. They have a combined record of 1-12. Their only win comes from Wayzata Blue who happened to beat Wayzata Gold. Both teams have been outscored by a combined total of 16-67 (Per YHH records.)

I honestly do not see the development in losing games 11-0 and certainly that can not be fun to be part of. What is sad is the word development has replaced the word FUN in youth hockey. Most kids playing youth hockey will never see a Varsity Game, The reality is most kids hockey careers only last 6 traveling seasons. (Squirt, Peewees, Bantams.) Only because when they do get to HS there are limited roster spots. For that reason it is OK to when at the youth levels. Give these kids great memories!!!! It's all about them!!!

My take is Kids need to play at a level they can compete at and not force them to a level they can not.. If my kid is a bubble A kid (13,14,15) I would rather have him play at a B level to help him gain that confidence needed and where he can compete and hopefully catch up!!!

[Survey]

I know there was an early post about EP, but I have to ask about Wayzata!!! This is not intended to be a rip on Wayzata...

Do they really have a development model that works? I was looking at there 2 A-squirt teams today. They have a combined record of 1-12. Their only win comes from Wayzata Blue who happened to beat Wayzata Gold. Both teams have been outscored by a combined total of 16-67 (Per YHH records.)

I honestly do not see the development in losing games 11-0 and certainly that can not be fun to be part of. What is sad is the word development has replaced the word FUN in youth hockey. Most kids playing youth hockey will never see a Varsity Game, The reality is most kids hockey careers only last 6 traveling seasons. (Squirt, Peewees, Bantams.) Only because when they do get to HS there are limited roster spots. For that reason it is OK to when at the youth levels. Give these kids great memories!!!! It's all about them!!!

My take is Kids need to play at a level they can compete at and not force them to a level they can not.. If my kid is a bubble A kid (13,14,15) I would rather have him play at a B level to help him gain that confidence needed and where he can compete and hopefully catch up!!!

Here is a quick answer on whether or not they are being developed:

Bantam AA - 23-1-4 (only lost is to SSM) Ranked #1
Bantam A - 14-2-2 Ranked #1 and or #2 depending on poll
Bantam B1 - 15-0-3 Ranked #1
Pee Wee AA - 14-6-1 Ranked #11 and #7 depending on poll

No need to really go any further than that.

[OBOY]

Did this group of Bantam's team's really have 2 squirt teams? or is this based strictly on their numbers and move ins?

Or were these kids allowed to develop at their own pace? Every kid develops at different time...

[57special]

They obviously don't have the talent to compete at the Squirt level this year with two teams. Should have only one team. Winning too much(i.e. Edina Peewees) is a problem, losing too much (Wayzata Squirt A) is also. Luckily, both of these situations are easily fixable.

I think Wayzata has underestimated how important it is to have a tradition of excellence.

[Survey]

They obviously don't have the talent to compete at the Squirt level this year with two teams. Should have only one team. Winning too much(i.e. Edina Peewees) is a problem, losing too much (Wayzata Squirt A) is also. Luckily, both of these situations are easily fixable.

I think Wayzata has underestimated how important it is to have a tradition of excellence.

For any association why does it matter how they do at squirts if by Bantams they are performing and competing for a state title?? Isn't that the goal? I would consider that as development which usually carries into HS.

[SCBlueLiner]

Pretty sure Wayzata Gold Squirt team won a couple games at a tournament in Fargo a couple weeks back.

[ASmoothSheet]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

[OBOY]

I know there was an early post about EP, but I have to ask about Wayzata!!! This is not intended to be a rip on Wayzata...

Do they really have a development model that works? I was looking at there 2 A-squirt teams today. They have a combined record of 1-12. Their only win comes from Wayzata Blue who happened to beat Wayzata Gold. Both teams have been outscored by a combined total of 16-67 (Per YHH records.)

I honestly do not see the development in losing games 11-0 and certainly that can not be fun to be part of. What is sad is the word development has replaced the word FUN in youth hockey. Most kids playing youth hockey will never see a Varsity Game, The reality is most kids hockey careers only last 6 traveling seasons. (Squirt, Peewees, Bantams.) Only because when they do get to HS there are limited roster spots. For that reason it is OK to when at the youth levels. Give these kids great memories!!!! It's all about them!!!

My take is Kids need to play at a level they can compete at and not force them to a level they can not.. If my kid is a bubble A kid (13,14,15) I would rather have him play at a B level to help him gain that confidence needed and where he can compete and hopefully catch up!!!

Here is a quick answer on whether or not they are being developed:

Bantam AA - 23-1-4 (only lost is to SSM) Ranked #1
Bantam A - 14-2-2 Ranked #1 and or #2 depending on poll
Bantam B1 - 15-0-3 Ranked #1
Pee Wee AA - 14-6-1 Ranked #11 and #7 depending on poll

No need to really go any further than that.

I'm told Wayzata went to two Squirt-A teams last year? Is that true? That would mean this group of great Bantams would've only had one Squirt-A team? When we splash out the current Bantam records and rankings they were under the 1 Squirt-A team model. They did not go through the same process as this current Squirt group will, so how do you compare? I'm sorry but it's OK for 10-11 year old kids to keep score and compete..

My suggestion is come and watch the squirt EP tournament this weekend. Going to be great hockey: Andover, OMG, Rosemount, EP, WBL, and yes Edina white and hopefully OMG, Andover and Rosemount are all in it on Sunday.. These kids compete and work so hard. I feel Squirt hockey is 100% the greatest hockey in the world. These kids are really learning to be part of something special....

It will be very interesting following this group of Wayzata Squirts and see if they will be able to duplicate the success of their current Bantams under a different Development Model....

[OBOY]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

I agree, that's why I think the most important thing to do is put the kids where they belong. If they can compete they will have fun.

[Towelie]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

Just a fantastic comment...Hey all you associations out there with crappy squirt teams...you all should just hang it up and try something else, give me a break. What kind of moronic comment is that.

I can name quite a few teams from squirts up to HS that get creamed every year...don't see them quitting.

Do you suggest WBL who lost to the Bantam AA Wayzata team 17-1 should all quit after this year?

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

Just a fantastic comment...Hey all you associations out there with crappy squirt teams...you all should just hang it up and try something else, give me a break. What kind of moronic comment is that.

I can name quite a few teams from squirts up to HS that get creamed every year...don't see them quitting.

Do you suggest WBL who lost to the Bantam AA Wayzata team 17-1 should all quit after this year?

I think kids quit because they have to listen to days like OBOY all year telling them how horrible the year is and how bad they are. Not because they stopped loving hockey.

[OBOY]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

Just a fantastic comment...Hey all you associations out there with crappy squirt teams...you all should just hang it up and try something else, give me a break. What kind of moronic comment is that.

I can name quite a few teams from squirts up to HS that get creamed every year...don't see them quitting.

Do you suggest WBL who lost to the Bantam AA Wayzata team 17-1 should all quit after this year?

I would say kids that can not compete are more likely to quit!!! Nobody is saying they should quit... Once again place them at the correct level so they can compete and have fun... Most important thing...

[officehazard]

Maybe what is happening in Wayzata will dispell some of the notion that development is everything and any kid can be great if they are developed the right way.

The current Bantam group has excelled at every level and has caused Wayzata to change the rules for the following ages after they finish a level. The current bantam group has more than enough players to put together two competitive A teams when they were squirts and PWs. This years early performance confirms this. However, the Wayzata leadership is more reactive than proactive which is shown in today's squirt records.

The current group of squirts went through a better development program than the current bantams since it started at minimites vs. advanced mites for the older group. The reality is that there are not as many good players in that group. The bantam group is loaded with good to great players. The bantam group has players on the Blades playing B1, while there is not a single Blades or machine player in the squirt group. Not that it means everything, but it does speak to the depth of the respective groups.

Coaches presented their concerns with the quality and depth of the talent of this group of squirts to player development, however, the thought was they were going to stick to the two A team structure for awhile. I would have called it a success last year, but there were more players that can complete in the current 1st year PW group.

It comes down to DNA. There are just more good athletes in the bantam group than the squirts. It will be interesting to see how the squirts progress over the years. It is not the difference in development model, but rather the number of good athletes in one group vs. the other. I doubt that more than a couple of the current squirt A players would have even made the Squirt A team when the current bantams were squirts. It also does not help the current squirts that 4-5 players went to MM this year, though none of them are big difference makers. All would have made A, so there would have been a positive trickle down affect for the remaining teams. Wayzata usually gets the team structures wrong, but that is a result of their reactive thinking on these matters.

[OBOY]

Losing that many games does not make for a fun year. It might be fun for their opponents that are used to getting thumped by Wayzata. Wayzata may have players quit at year end and try something else.

Just a fantastic comment...Hey all you associations out there with crappy squirt teams...you all should just hang it up and try something else, give me a break. What kind of moronic comment is that.

I can name quite a few teams from squirts up to HS that get creamed every year...don't see them quitting.

Do you suggest WBL who lost to the Bantam AA Wayzata team 17-1 should all quit after this year?

I think kids quit because they have to listen to days like OBOY all year telling them how horrible the year is and how bad they are. Not because they stopped loving hockey.

I think kids quit because some parents think it is their Social status within their community based on which team their kid makes. I think kids quit because they can not compete, I think kids quit because all coaches do is bring up the word development instead of bringing up the word FUN!!!!

I have coached for 20 years from mites-HS some as a parent coach and some as a non-parent coach. (Most have been at the A level in Traveling.) I have had only one kid quit after the season...I hated it.... I've coached 100's of kids on some very successful teams and some not so successful. The one thing we never do is take the fun out of it... Guess where that kid ranked? Yep he struggled all year.. We complemented him on every little thing he did right all year..Still didn't matter cause he personally felt he could not compete which turns into zero fun..

It will not kill a kid to play a year or two of B-squirts and gain confidence.

[minnscout]

I have kids in Wayzata youth program currently and I think the mite/squirt levels are not run well and that's why my kids play @ MM as well to get the proper coaching they need.

[Bluewhitefan]

However, the Wayzata leadership is more reactive than proactive which is shown in today's squirt records.

Of course as soon as it doesn't work, we should back track. Give them a little credit for actually having the fortitude to make the decision last year. Maybe the Squirts aren't "deep" as you suggest - but they're SQUIRTS. I don't think the losing is going to kill them and you just might have 30 decent Bantams to pick from in a few years. You know how many Squirt kids quit from Edina's A2 team a few years back? NONE - and they were terrible - could barely score a goal - not saying it was the right thing to do, but they all survived.

[officehazard]

Never said losing was bad, just that losing 90% of the games is counterproductive. A good team mix would have resulted in .500 records which is better for the kids. Of course they will survive.

[SCBlueLiner]

How those kids view this season will depend greatly on how the coaches and parents handle it. If they don't handle losing well and suck the fun out of hockey then it could end badly. If they keep it positive the kids will be fine.

[old goalie85]

I think kids tend to deal w/losing better than the the parents. Now in FL we get beat more then Edina/Zeta/Ect, But my kids jump min the car and are like where are we going to eat ??? So and so is going to Vannellis. My bantam AAthis year /And my oldest [when he was in highschool took it harder] but my squirts x2 and my 12 don't seem to be scarred by it. I realize that winning is a learned behavior, and I don't care to get beat. But sometimes it seems more important to the parents than the kids.

[buttend]

I know there was an early post about EP, but I have to ask about Wayzata!!! This is not intended to be a rip on Wayzata...

Do they really have a development model that works? I was looking at there 2 A-squirt teams today. They have a combined record of 1-12. Their only win comes from Wayzata Blue who happened to beat Wayzata Gold. Both teams have been outscored by a combined total of 16-67 (Per YHH records.)

I honestly do not see the development in losing games 11-0 and certainly that can not be fun to be part of. What is sad is the word development has replaced the word FUN in youth hockey. Most kids playing youth hockey will never see a Varsity Game, The reality is most kids hockey careers only last 6 traveling seasons. (Squirt, Peewees, Bantams.) Only because when they do get to HS there are limited roster spots. For that reason it is OK to when at the youth levels. Give these kids great memories!!!! It's all about them!!!

My take is Kids need to play at a level they can compete at and not force them to a level they can not.. If my kid is a bubble A kid (13,14,15) I would rather have him play at a B level to help him gain that confidence needed and where he can compete and hopefully catch up!!!

Here is a quick answer on whether or not they are being developed:

Bantam AA - 23-1-4 (only lost is to SSM) Ranked #1
Bantam A - 14-2-2 Ranked #1 and or #2 depending on poll
Bantam B1 - 15-0-3 Ranked #1
Pee Wee AA - 14-6-1 Ranked #11 and #7 depending on poll

No need to really go any further than that.

Before anyone on that hockey board breaks their arm patting themselves on their back. Lets look at some other data. At the youth sports levels success is often driven by participation numbers. When you have 120 kids at a level and your top 15 play on the "A" team is allot different than an Association that has 45 kids at a level and their top 15 make up the "A" team.


Wayzata Teams be Level

Bantam: 8 ( AA, A, 2-B1, 3-B2, C )
PeeWee 9 (AA, A 2-B1, 3 B2, 2-C)
Squirt 7 ( 2-A, 2-B1, 2-B2, C)

You have 24 traveling teams! At your Bantam level you had over 120+ kids to choose a Top team. Contrast that to other Metro Programs, Burnsville, Lakeville South or Grand Rapids ( upnorth)

Burnsville has 4 teams at each travel level, 12 total teams.

Lakeville South has 4,3,4 11 total at each level.

Grand Rapids 2 Bantam, 3 PeeWee 3 Squirt 8 total teams.

All three of those programs have success.


Big Associations like Wayzata should be fielding 2-AA teams at each level and 2 -A teams at each level and they would still have an advantage over 80% of the associations... Its not your development, its your numbers, just like Edina.

[hockeyfan3133]

How many current Wayzata Bantam AA kids were on the squirt A and PeeWee A teams?

[Hockeymom21]

Officehazard is exactly right.
There is no comparison on talent and depth. When the current second year bantams were second year squirts, the 3 b1s performed at a very high level. Blue was undefeated all season until they lost to one of the other Wayzata teams. That was the year to have to 2 As. After that, the board decided to have 2 As for the next few years without regard to the talent pool.
Also 4 years ago, Wayzata had 10 squirt teams. Now, they have 7. The numbers and talent do not support 2A, 2B1, 2B2, 1C. All squirts are feeling the pain of this poor decision, not just the A teams, it filters all the way down. They have always had far too few C teams as well, but I suppose that could be its own thread. I've beat that drum for years.
To answer hockeyfan3133's question: A handful of the AA bantams were B1 (or even B2) squirts and peewees.

[old goalie85]

Thanks Hockeymom- I was curious about that as well.[how many played b1/b2] I ve seen the same in Forest Lake, just didn 't know if the same could be said for the larger assc.

[Whopper2]

If your a B1 bantam you will have little chance of ever playing varsity. Start early with serious trainig because its hard to catch up.Its a hard road to the top. Everyone wants to get there but only a few will do the work .Ass. hockey by it self won't get you there.

[observer]

If your a B1 bantam you will have little chance of ever playing varsity.

That's a stupid comment. There are likely hundreds of varsity players that played Bantam B1.