A teams beating AA teams

defense · Post by **defense** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:07 am

I really wish they would abandon it. But im oldschool

REalhockey17 · Post by **REalhockey17** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:28 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:Hermantown A beat CEC AA 5-2

Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:09 pm

REalhockey17 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:Hermantown A beat CEC AA 5-2

Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick

$\:D/$

Hermantown has twice as many Bantam/Peewee teams..........

This pilot should be nuked.

silentbutdeadly3139 · Post by **silentbutdeadly3139** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:17 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick
$\:D/$

Hermantown has twice as many Bantam/Peewee teams..........

This pilot should be nuked.

I agree I don't like AA/A but looks like Hermantown is doing it correctly. They list AA and A teams.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:24 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick
$\:D/$

Hermantown has twice as many Bantam/Peewee teams..........

This pilot should be nuked.

So CEC should have played A

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:55 am

REalhockey17 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:Hermantown A beat CEC AA 5-2

Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick

My bad. Mistook Hermantown's A as their 1-17.

Very nice win...

Very rare this year! Probably time for Hermantown to move up to AA in High School if their second bantam team is beating AA Cloquet.

REalhockey17 · Post by **REalhockey17** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:45 am

Bluewhitefan wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
REalhockey17 wrote:Hermantown has a very legitimate team this year, they've had some trouble with injuries and players being sick
$\:D/$

Hermantown has twice as many Bantam/Peewee teams..........

This pilot should be nuked.
So CEC should have played A

CEC's high school program is AA, so they didn't really have a choice

hockeysmart · Post by **hockeysmart** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:20 am

REalhockey17 wrote:
Bluewhitefan wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: $\:D/$

Hermantown has twice as many Bantam/Peewee teams..........

This pilot should be nuked.
So CEC should have played A
CEC's high school program is AA, so they didn't really have a choice

They could have opted down but decided not to. Cottage Grove is one example of a team that waivered down to single A and I'm sure there are a few more

CRBantamAcoach · Post by **CRBantamAcoach** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:38 am

hockeysmart wrote:
They could have opted down but decided not to. Cottage Grove is one example of a team that waivered down to single A and I'm sure there are a few more

Coon Rapids did for obvious reasons.
We fair ok against A teams, but playing AA teams are almost pointless.

The method in D10 is the usual throw it against the wall and see what sticks. There have been 7 games so far with AA teams beating A teams scoring 10 goals or more. 15-0 isn't a game, its a waste of money.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:22 am

CRBantamAcoach wrote:
hockeysmart wrote:
They could have opted down but decided not to. Cottage Grove is one example of a team that waivered down to single A and I'm sure there are a few more
Coon Rapids did for obvious reasons.
We fair ok against A teams, but playing AA teams are almost pointless.

The method in D10 is the usual throw it against the wall and see what sticks. There have been 7 games so far with AA teams beating A teams scoring 10 goals or more. 15-0 isn't a game, its a waste of money.

Of course you'd say that - maybe you should look at the coaching aspect of your team - not the talent level

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:41 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
greybeard58 wrote:Bo,
The A Bantam scores last year were also not as bad and the same setup minus the 2nd teams from Blaine, Centennial or Elk River. Go back 2,3 and 4 years ago and yes there were blow outs at the B1 and B2 levels both PW and Bantam. One team would be in the top 4 and the other might have won 1 game. If you want to blame someone blame the associations that placed their teams where they did which happens every year.

Lamp, Go to the D10 web site the Scores are under Peewee A and Bantam A by league. The standings are by divisions.
As far as guidance from the District it has been that you should place your teams at the proper level and Blaine and Centennial never split their teams equally always an upper and lower. There is no rule in D10 you have to equalize teams at the same level.

There was no rule change that caused this, this was because Mn Hockey added another level of region and state tournament and for a guideline used the HS classification as a starter. In D10 Rogers a class A HS is in the AA division. Coon Rapids an AA HS is in the A Division. Camb/Isanti (AA HS)and Mora an A HS are in the A Division while Irondale and St Francis are in the AA division.

The proposal had been in the works for over 2 years before it was placed in affect this year. How many hear went to the district and state meetings to voice their opinion my guess is none, easier to complain here than attend meetings and voice your opinion or provide a different solution. Heck everybody here was against the change in checking at the Peewee but nobody else took the time or courage to show up and voice your opinion.
What District 10 associations made mistakes in the levels they declared at? What would you have done different from them?

The MNH board ALL come on here and read the downfalls that were coming.

Not sure if all do, but a lot of them do.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:48 am

Deep Breath wrote:greaybeard: even though this is a thread about the "AA"/"A" fiasco, you mentioned the checking at peewee level. You are simply delusional if you think nobody on this board voiced their concern to the appropriate parties before taking checking away at the peewee level was dumped on us. Debate can be had on whether to blame USA Hockey for the rule of Mn Hockey for not voting to go against it, but having been a coach for the past several years both in and out of association, I can tell you that voices were heard regarding the peewee checking mess. Without getting into another topic on this thread, I can tell you that peewee hockey in the winter is now a joke and we didn't do our 7th and 8th graders any favors when checking was taken away. My opinion can obviously be debated, but to say that nobody took the time to voice their displeasure, whether it was an email, phone call or face2face meeting, is simply inaccurate.

Although far from unanimous, the MN Hockey board voted against it with instructions for MH reps to do what they could to stop the change in checking.
I am not sure that they did all they could as most of those were in favor of the move.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:55 am

LowLight21 wrote:Do we expect Minnesota Hockey to keep the AA/A program going into next season? Anyone involved with MH leadership have comments?

It will continue, there will be changes.

REalhockey17 · Post by **REalhockey17** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:09 pm

loveitorleaveit wrote:
CRBantamAcoach wrote:
hockeysmart wrote:
They could have opted down but decided not to. Cottage Grove is one example of a team that waivered down to single A and I'm sure there are a few more
Coon Rapids did for obvious reasons.
We fair ok against A teams, but playing AA teams are almost pointless.

The method in D10 is the usual throw it against the wall and see what sticks. There have been 7 games so far with AA teams beating A teams scoring 10 goals or more. 15-0 isn't a game, its a waste of money.
Of course you'd say that - maybe you should look at the coaching aspect of your team - not the talent level

I didn't know cottage grove and coon rapids opted down, but Hermantown A's lost 3-2 to cottage grove at the beginning of the year, and beat coon rapids 4-1 around Christmas

hockeysmart · Post by **hockeysmart** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:34 pm

REalhockey17 wrote:
loveitorleaveit wrote:
CRBantamAcoach wrote: Coon Rapids did for obvious reasons.
We fair ok against A teams, but playing AA teams are almost pointless.

The method in D10 is the usual throw it against the wall and see what sticks. There have been 7 games so far with AA teams beating A teams scoring 10 goals or more. 15-0 isn't a game, its a waste of money.
Of course you'd say that - maybe you should look at the coaching aspect of your team - not the talent level
I didn't know cottage grove and coon rapids opted down, but Hermantown A's lost 3-2 to cottage grove at the beginning of the year, and beat coon rapids 4-1 around Christmas

Hermantown has both AA and A so not bad their 15-30 skaters lost 3-2 to cg 1-15. Apple valley also waivered down to single A.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:07 am

REalhockey17 wrote:
loveitorleaveit wrote:
CRBantamAcoach wrote: Coon Rapids did for obvious reasons.
We fair ok against A teams, but playing AA teams are almost pointless.

The method in D10 is the usual throw it against the wall and see what sticks. There have been 7 games so far with AA teams beating A teams scoring 10 goals or more. 15-0 isn't a game, its a waste of money.
Of course you'd say that - maybe you should look at the coaching aspect of your team - not the talent level
I didn't know cottage grove and coon rapids opted down, but Hermantown A's lost 3-2 to cottage grove at the beginning of the year, and beat coon rapids 4-1 around Christmas

If Coon Rapids would get some better coaching, they would easily be AA.

CRBantamAcoach · Post by **CRBantamAcoach** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:42 am

loveitorleaveit wrote:
If Coon Rapids would get some better coaching, they would easily be AA.

How nice, you take your children from the CR program, you are relieved of your coaching duties from the program you transfer into (they must have seen the same thing we saw), and you want to rip the coach of the team your son actually had success on. Bless you - loveitorleave - there is more to life out there.

CRBantamAcoach · Post by **CRBantamAcoach** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:49 am

How about some stats from D10 AA vs A so far:

46 games
AA record 42-3-1
AA 292 goals to A 58 goals
7 games AA was double digits over A
AA has 16 shutouts over A

15-2
14-1
13-0

IMO - games like this don't help either side.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:26 am

CRBantamAcoach wrote:
loveitorleaveit wrote:
If Coon Rapids would get some better coaching, they would easily be AA.
How nice, you take your children from the CR program, you are relieved of your coaching duties from the program you transfer into (they must have seen the same thing we saw), and you want to rip the coach of the team your son actually had success on. Bless you - loveitorleave - there is more to life out there.

I still have my coaching position and I would not call that year a success for my son or any other player on that team.

d10dad · Post by **d10dad** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:13 pm

CRBantamAcoach wrote:How about some stats from D10 AA vs A so far:

46 games
AA record 42-3-1
AA 292 goals to A 58 goals
7 games AA was double digits over A
AA has 16 shutouts over A

15-2
14-1
13-0

IMO - games like this don't help either side.

Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 AA games

0-15 vs Anoka AA
2-15 Vs. Elk River AA
1-5 vs. Rogers AA
3-2 (OT) vs. Irondale\St. francis
3-11 Centennial AA
3-4 vs Champlin AA
6-8 versus Andover AA
2-6 vs. Blaine AA

I don't see this as a failure...

Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 A games
4-5 (OT) vs Centennial A
6-2 Blaine A
4-3 Elk River A
5-2 Princeton A
7-5 NCBD A
2-2 Coon Rapids A (shots... SLP 60+ coon 20?)
9-2 Centennial A

as a parent of a SLP Player, I have NO issues with this, nor did I how D10 had it setup last year!!!

Play better Teams to get better!!!
It would be one thing if we were stuck in our Defensive zone for 90% of the game, but this is NOT the case. It is up and down all game.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:51 pm

d10dad wrote:
CRBantamAcoach wrote:How about some stats from D10 AA vs A so far:

46 games
AA record 42-3-1
AA 292 goals to A 58 goals
7 games AA was double digits over A
AA has 16 shutouts over A

15-2
14-1
13-0

IMO - games like this don't help either side.
Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 AA games

0-15 vs Anoka AA
2-15 Vs. Elk River AA
1-5 vs. Rogers AA
3-2 (OT) vs. Irondale\St. francis
3-11 Centennial AA
3-4 vs Champlin AA
6-8 versus Andover AA
2-6 vs. Blaine AA

I don't see this as a failure...

Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 A games
4-5 (OT) vs Centennial A
6-2 Blaine A
4-3 Elk River A
5-2 Princeton A
7-5 NCBD A
2-2 Coon Rapids A (shots... SLP 60+ coon 20?)
9-2 Centennial A

as a parent of a SLP Player, I have NO issues with this, nor did I how D10 had it setup last year!!!

Play better Teams to get better!!!
It would be one thing if we were stuck in our Defensive zone for 90% of the game, but this is NOT the case. It is up and down all game.

I hate to say it, but you are making the point for CRcoach.
0-15/2-15/3-11 doesn't sound like its an up and down all game.

If anything, Spring Lake Park should have been AA.
Play better Teams to get better!!!

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:59 pm

observer wrote:I'm not a fan of this change but I don't think the new level is the problem. The scheduling is the problem.

The scheduling was a problem because MN Hockey said nothing changes until the playoffs and year end tourneys and that was bad info.

This hits the point very well.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:06 pm

d10dad wrote:
CRBantamAcoach wrote:How about some stats from D10 AA vs A so far:

46 games
AA record 42-3-1
AA 292 goals to A 58 goals
7 games AA was double digits over A
AA has 16 shutouts over A

15-2
14-1
13-0

IMO - games like this don't help either side.
Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 AA games

0-15 vs Anoka AA
2-15 Vs. Elk River AA
1-5 vs. Rogers AA
3-2 (OT) vs. Irondale\St. francis
3-11 Centennial AA
3-4 vs Champlin AA
6-8 versus Andover AA
2-6 vs. Blaine AA

I don't see this as a failure...

Sample of Spring Lake Park (A) vs D10 A games
4-5 (OT) vs Centennial A
6-2 Blaine A
4-3 Elk River A
5-2 Princeton A
7-5 NCBD A
2-2 Coon Rapids A (shots... SLP 60+ coon 20?)
9-2 Centennial A

as a parent of a SLP Player, I have NO issues with this, nor did I how D10 had it setup last year!!!

Play better Teams to get better!!!
It would be one thing if we were stuck in our Defensive zone for 90% of the game, but this is NOT the case. It is up and down all game.

You're just showing that the SLP team would be borderline A in the old format. If the parents in your association think playing better competition is important then all they had to do is play A in the old format.......

You gave me a good thought- How about limiting associations to only one A and one B-1 team and we'll have the exact same results as above. Get rid of the crossover games and decide if you want to "Play better teams to get better"

Works for you, but you ignore the brutal scores above your post..... This pilot is something you wouldn't even think a five year old would come up with.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:17 pm

CRBantamAcoach wrote:How about some stats from D10 AA vs A so far:

46 games
AA record 42-3-1
AA 292 goals to A 58 goals
7 games AA was double digits over A
AA has 16 shutouts over A

15-2
14-1
13-0

IMO - games like this don't help either side.

Some of the folks on the MNH board need to be tested for brain activity......

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:30 pm

Some of the folks on the MNH board need to be tested for brain activity......

I don't think this was their idea and that is generally not their role. Members present the ideas and make the decisions in voting.

I presume it was presented by dads from the large association B1 teams as they didn't like being labeled B and MN Hockey approved it as a pilot. We do know that the very top few B1 teams could have beaten all but the top 10-15 A teams the last several seasons.

I think opening up some scheduling would have been the best idea but the top B1 teams may have had difficulty finding A teams that wanted to play them. So they decided to call them A and open up the scheduling options. It turns out they just moved the problem to another level.

Elliot mentioned he doesn't think it is going away so I'll guess more Districts will go to the D6 model next year, AA uber leagues, and we'll have yet another set of issues next year.