Will Edina go undefeated at PWA (or AA) this year?

[Shinbone_News]

I believe team play counts for something. Given that the core first and second years each play together year-around, that has to give Edina an advantage unmatched. (Blades and Machine, remember, are both based in Edina. No one can seriously suggest there is another AAA program in MN that can really compete with either at 00 and 01. And don't say Sweet Hockey Selects, because that's just the Blades in disguise.)

On another note, I was talking to an Edina coach and parent the other day, and one sad thing about the depth they have is that many very talented kids give up association hockey after Peewees in Edina. If they haven't made an A or B1 team by second year PW, they figure it's a lost cause. That means -- to just extend the logic here -- that players who could easily be in the top 15 at a smaller, less successful association, maybe one just across the street, like Minneapolis or St. Louis Park, just give it up. This coach/dad confirmed that the politics are, indeed, brutal.

[observer]

No one has mentioned natural athletic ability. A first grader in Edina is no more athletic just because of where he lives.

I guess I just mean don't give up. Don't use they have more numbers as an excuse. Work harder.

Even the Edina B2 kids are working hard because they want to make the B1 team. It is numbers that forces them to work harder but I believe the hard work trumps numbers. It would be interesting for an Edina AA or A parent to list the team and their summer activity. I guarantee all of the top 45 players, maybe 60, train in the summer and are probably on a solid AAA team.

Don't worry about things you don't control. Work to grow and improve your association.

Recruiting more kids is the most important task for every association. 30 new mite boys and 20 new mite girls each year. This helps avoid peaks and valleys.

Good coaching and practice plans that change, are fun, and develop the kids all season is #2.

Training, hard, in the off season is #3.

[SCBlueLiner]

I believe team play counts for something. Given that the core first and second years each play together year-around, that has to give Edina an advantage unmatched. (Blades and Machine, remember, are both based in Edina. No one can seriously suggest there is another AAA program in MN that can really compete with either at 00 and 01. And don't say Sweet Hockey Selects, because that's just the Blades in disguise.)

On another note, I was talking to an Edina coach and parent the other day, and one sad thing about the depth they have is that many very talented kids give up association hockey after Peewees in Edina. If they haven't made an A or B1 team by second year PW, they figure it's a lost cause. That means -- to just extend the logic here -- that players who could easily be in the top 15 at a smaller, less successful association, maybe one just across the street, like Minneapolis or St. Louis Park, just give it up. This coach/dad confirmed that the politics are, indeed, brutal.

I coach in a small association. Tiny by most standards. I have told some parents, not in a condescending way, that their kids are lucky they are in the association they are in. If some of our kids were at a place like Edina they would not receive the special attention and coaching they get here. They would be put on a B or C team and be buried there. They are fortunate that they are going to get the opportunity to play this sport through their senior year of school if they so choose just because of the numbers game.

The flip side is we have a hard time with motivating our players to do those extra things it takes to go from being a good player to a great player. The kids almost know we have to play with what we got so they are going to get their chance to play. It'd be a nice option to have all that competition inside the organization.

No, we can't beat the Edinas, but for what we have to work with we turn out some pretty decent players and teams, IMO. We compete well.

I've always wondered though, if there is so much depth at Edina (not calling them out, they're just the standard I'm using) and others like them, why do they not have 2,3, or 4 AA teams depending on the amount of talent they have in a given year. If the kids on the B1 team are AA caliber players anywhere else, why aren't they playing AA hockey on a team and competing with everone else? What good does it do for their development to beat the pants off everyone at every level? What do kids learn about being in a tight, competitive game if they blow everyone out?

As for those Edina kids who quit at PeeWees, that's too bad. There's a lot of growing and a lot of hockey left in those kids. I've seen average PeeWees explode as Bantam and HS players, go onto juniors, and even college. PeeWees is too early to pull the plug. If it was my kid, I'd be working to get him OUT of the Edina association and into a smaller one where he can rise through the ranks. I guess the reverse of the migration of top end talent going to one place, second level talent migrating out to smaller associations where that kid might have the opportunity to grow and oneday shine.

Maybe I'm just getting old and don't get it anymore.

[supertacks]

I believe team play counts for something. Given that the core first and second years each play together year-around, that has to give Edina an advantage unmatched. (Blades and Machine, remember, are both based in Edina. No one can seriously suggest there is another AAA program in MN that can really compete with either at 00 and 01. And don't say Sweet Hockey Selects, because that's just the Blades in disguise.)

On another note, I was talking to an Edina coach and parent the other day, and one sad thing about the depth they have is that many very talented kids give up association hockey after Peewees in Edina. If they haven't made an A or B1 team by second year PW, they figure it's a lost cause. That means -- to just extend the logic here -- that players who could easily be in the top 15 at a smaller, less successful association, maybe one just across the street, like Minneapolis or St. Louis Park, just give it up. This coach/dad confirmed that the politics are, indeed, brutal.

I coach in a small association. Tiny by most standards. I have told some parents, not in a condescending way, that their kids are lucky they are in the association they are in. If some of our kids were at a place like Edina they would not receive the special attention and coaching they get here. They would be put on a B or C team and be buried there. They are fortunate that they are going to get the opportunity to play this sport through their senior year of school if they so choose just because of the numbers game.

The flip side is we have a hard time with motivating our players to do those extra things it takes to go from being a good player to a great player. The kids almost know we have to play with what we got so they are going to get their chance to play. It'd be a nice option to have all that competition inside the organization.

No, we can't beat the Edinas, but for what we have to work with we turn out some pretty decent players and teams, IMO. We compete well.

I've always wondered though, if there is so much depth at Edina (not calling them out, they're just the standard I'm using) and others like them, why do they not have 2,3, or 4 AA teams depending on the amount of talent they have in a given year. If the kids on the B1 team are AA caliber players anywhere else, why aren't they playing AA hockey on a team and competing with everone else? What good does it do for their development to beat the pants off everyone at every level? What do kids learn about being in a tight, competitive game if they blow everyone out?

As for those Edina kids who quit at PeeWees, that's too bad. There's a lot of growing and a lot of hockey left in those kids. I've seen average PeeWees explode as Bantam and HS players, go onto juniors, and even college. PeeWees is too early to pull the plug. If it was my kid, I'd be working to get him OUT of the Edina association and into a smaller one where he can rise through the ranks. I guess the reverse of the migration of top end talent going to one place, second level talent migrating out to smaller associations where that kid might have the opportunity to grow and oneday shine.

Maybe I'm just getting old and don't get it anymore.

SCBlueLiner, you may be getting old, but you are also getting wiser, very well said!

[OBOY]

[quote="Shinbone_News"]I believe team play counts for something. Given that the core first and second years each play together year-around, that has to give Edina an advantage unmatched.


Couldn't agree anymore!!!! That group has the model and more should follow... Playing year-around together gives you such a huge advantage.

[C-dad]

Centennial just played Edina to a 4-3 game... The more they play them, the closer it gets.

Of course they get closer each time they play. Always happens, the better team gets cocky and complacent and the lesser team gets more pumped up. Doesn't mean the talent has gotten any closer.

Skills were always close.

They learned how to take them off their game.

If the skills are close why is Centennial 33-8 and Edina 40-0?

[Shinbone_News]

I've always wondered though, if there is so much depth at Edina (not calling them out, they're just the standard I'm using) and others like them, why do they not have 2,3, or 4 AA teams depending on the amount of talent they have in a given year. If the kids on the B1 team are AA caliber players anywhere else, why aren't they playing AA hockey on a team and competing with everone else? What good does it do for their development to beat the pants off everyone at every level? What do kids learn about being in a tight, competitive game if they blow everyone out?

This is a good point, and it gets debated a lot around here. I think there is a lot of frustration in Edina. They always feel pressure to field the strongest single team in the state at every level, and don't seem to cotton to the idea of creating multiple equal teams (except at squirts, where there is no state tournament on the line) that might, at the very least, beat each other equally. The frustration is "Well, my kid didn't make the AA team, but he proved he should have by going undefeated on the A team." Edina loves to win, hates to lose. Compare to Wayzata -- which maybe doesn't quite have the same depth, but does have the size and is more interested in development than win/loss record.

Ironically, that same Edina coach/dad confirmed for me that most of the top players at Peewee all came into the association from Mn Made's Choice League. Very few "homegrown" squirts seem to make the AA,A or B1 team -- and that seems to be the political breaking point in the current Edina universe. It also suggests that their "development" is being outsourced to Mn Made. (No gripe from me. I like Mn Made. I also like association hockey. Go figure!)

[MrBoDangles]

Of course they get closer each time they play. Always happens, the better team gets cocky and complacent and the lesser team gets more pumped up. Doesn't mean the talent has gotten any closer.

Skills were always close.

They learned how to take them off their game.

If the skills are close why is Centennial 33-8 and Edina 40-0?

The skills are way too close for an association like Edina that has more than twice as many kids.

"cocky and complacent" Nailed it! This is probably why Moorhead puts out way more world class talent than the mega association, Edina Cakers do.

[C-dad]

Skills were always close.

They learned how to take them off their game.[/quote)

If the skills are close why is Centennial 33-8 and Edina 40-0?

The skills are way too close for an association like Edina that has more than twice as many kids.

"cocky and complacent" Nailed it! This is probably why Moorhead puts out way more world class talent than the mega association, Edina Cakers do.

And why would numbers have such a large impact on skills?

[BodyShots]

I don't know about you, but I always thought wealth had something to do with the success Edina and Wayzata have. It takes a pretty wealthy family to be able to afford playing hockey year round with all the training that now occurs in the summer.

When my kids were playing, there were some pretty talented kids whose parents couldn't afford to have their kids play during the summer. As they got older, some kids who played in the summer got better and passed these kids in over all talent.

The same can be said for what is happening in high school hockey. The wealthy are able to send their kids to private schools like HM, STA, and BSM. These kids that play for the blades/machine develop friendships and decide to play together in high school for a chance at a trip to the state tournament. The less wealthy don't have this option.

[longtimelistener]

No one has mentioned natural athletic ability. A first grader in Edina is no more athletic just because of where he lives.

Even the Edina B2 kids are working hard because they want to make the B1 team. It is numbers that forces them to work harder but I believe the hard work trumps numbers. It would be interesting for an Edina AA or A parent to list the team and their summer activity. I guarantee all of the top 45 players, maybe 60, train in the summer and are probably on a solid AAA team.

I know what many of these kids do over the summer. They certainly skate for teams like the Blades/Machine and other quality programs, but many of them ALSO play baseball. 6 kids that are on the PWAA and PWA teams played on the Edina 12AAA baseball team that won the MBT State Tournament last summer and finished ranked #2 in the state. AAA baseball is the highest level of competition. They don't spend ALL their time on the ice....

[Jerry Lundegaard]

No one has mentioned natural athletic ability. A first grader in Edina is no more athletic just because of where he lives.

Even the Edina B2 kids are working hard because they want to make the B1 team. It is numbers that forces them to work harder but I believe the hard work trumps numbers. It would be interesting for an Edina AA or A parent to list the team and their summer activity. I guarantee all of the top 45 players, maybe 60, train in the summer and are probably on a solid AAA team.

I know what many of these kids do over the summer. They certainly skate for teams like the Blades/Machine and other quality programs, but many of them ALSO play baseball. 6 kids that are on the PWAA and PWA teams played on the Edina 12AAA baseball team that won the MBT State Tournament last summer and finished ranked #2 in the state. AAA baseball is the highest level of competition. They don't spend ALL their time on the ice....

Wait... They're cheating in Baseball too? Perhaps they should look at two or three AAA baseball teams too.

[MrBoDangles]

The skills are way too close for an association like Edina that has more than twice as many kids.

"cocky and complacent" Nailed it! This is probably why Moorhead puts out way more world class talent than the mega association, Edina Cakers do.

And why would numbers have such a large impact on skills?

Are you trying to say that Edina would be as good as they are with half the numbers?

[57special]

I believe team play counts for something. Given that the core first and second years each play together year-around, that has to give Edina an advantage unmatched. (Blades and Machine, remember, are both based in Edina. No one can seriously suggest there is another AAA program in MN that can really compete with either at 00 and 01. And don't say Sweet Hockey Selects, because that's just the Blades in disguise.)

On another note, I was talking to an Edina coach and parent the other day, and one sad thing about the depth they have is that many very talented kids give up association hockey after Peewees in Edina. If they haven't made an A or B1 team by second year PW, they figure it's a lost cause. That means -- to just extend the logic here -- that players who could easily be in the top 15 at a smaller, less successful association, maybe one just across the street, like Minneapolis or St. Louis Park, just give it up. This coach/dad confirmed that the politics are, indeed, brutal.

I coach in a small association. Tiny by most standards. I have told some parents, not in a condescending way, that their kids are lucky they are in the association they are in. If some of our kids were at a place like Edina they would not receive the special attention and coaching they get here. They would be put on a B or C team and be buried there. They are fortunate that they are going to get the opportunity to play this sport through their senior year of school if they so choose just because of the numbers game.

The flip side is we have a hard time with motivating our players to do those extra things it takes to go from being a good player to a great player. The kids almost know we have to play with what we got so they are going to get their chance to play. It'd be a nice option to have all that competition inside the organization.

No, we can't beat the Edinas, but for what we have to work with we turn out some pretty decent players and teams, IMO. We compete well.

I've always wondered though, if there is so much depth at Edina (not calling them out, they're just the standard I'm using) and others like them, why do they not have 2,3, or 4 AA teams depending on the amount of talent they have in a given year. If the kids on the B1 team are AA caliber players anywhere else, why aren't they playing AA hockey on a team and competing with everone else? What good does it do for their development to beat the pants off everyone at every level? What do kids learn about being in a tight, competitive game if they blow everyone out?

As for those Edina kids who quit at PeeWees, that's too bad. There's a lot of growing and a lot of hockey left in those kids. I've seen average PeeWees explode as Bantam and HS players, go onto juniors, and even college. PeeWees is too early to pull the plug. If it was my kid, I'd be working to get him OUT of the Edina association and into a smaller one where he can rise through the ranks. I guess the reverse of the migration of top end talent going to one place, second level talent migrating out to smaller associations where that kid might have the opportunity to grow and oneday shine.

Maybe I'm just getting old and don't get it anymore.

Agreeing with you!

I moved into Edina (hockey had nothing to do with it) a few years ago. Turns out my boy can play hockey well. Not outstanding, but he's very good. He would be an A player in most Associations(almost all his non-Edina summer team mates are A players. He is NOT the weakest on his summer team).

He's a B2 in Edina(politics, indeed, are brutal here)... if our lives were all about hockey I would move out of here. Wish i could waiver him out to Hopkins, EP,Tonka, or SLP for hockey, as Edina obviously doesn't value him. I would like a rule that you could get a waiver into another association with no penalty IF the association you were moving to guaranteed a spot two levels up (i.e. C to B1, B1 to AA,etc.). Seems to me this would be good for hockey in general in MN, and help bridge the gap between the haves and the have nots.

Edina has screwed up by not having at least another B1 team.

The flip side in D6 is Waconia and New Prague. Neither has a C team, and instead have decided to have B2 as their lowest level. Their combined record at the PWB2 level is 0-20, with GF 12 and GA over 150. Not good for the kids there, IMO.

The PWAA team's success is only partly about talent. The important part is that they play together, and are tight on and off the ice.

One other thing. I predict a drop off in the Edina results come Bantam. Hitting has a way of leveling the playing field... and there are a lot of little Edina players.

[Shinbone_News]

Interesting idea. Have you tried to get a waiver? Just curious. Some associations are very lenient (to the point of killing the association, like Johnson/Como) others impossible. (I think Edina maybe falls into this category?) They are pretty much required to grant a waiver if your kid goes to school in another association's area, but that's not always easy to do.

Usually the waiver/level policy is "We'll waiver your player if our association doesn't offer the level that's appropriate for him/her, and if through tryouts he makes that level in another association." One could see where EYHA (and then D6) could be petitioned to allow waivers for players who are just never going to get a fair shake at home. You should try it! (Gently suggesting that your lawyer is interested might make them actually respond! I realize you're not a hockey dad of this high octane sort, but it's fun to think about.)

[C-dad]

Interesting idea. Have you tried to get a waiver? Just curious. Some associations are very lenient (to the point of killing the association, like Johnson/Como) others impossible. (I think Edina maybe falls into this category?) They are pretty much required to grant a waiver if your kid goes to school in another association's area, but that's not always easy to do.

Usually the waiver/level policy is "We'll waiver your player if our association doesn't offer the level that's appropriate for him/her, and if through tryouts he makes that level in another association." One could see where EYHA (and then D6) could be petitioned to allow waivers for players who are just never going to get a fair shake at home. You should try it! (Gently suggesting that your lawyer is interested might make them actually respond! I realize you're not a hockey dad of this high octane sort, but it's fun to think about.)

He could send him to BSM too then he'll waiver into SLP. Definitely sounds like an A SLP player.

BTW, I too agree Edina should have had multiple B1 teams at both PW and Bantam this year, as a minimum. Maybe multiple A or AA teams instead.

[57special]

I can't see Edina (nor probably any association) ever admitting that they aren't treating a player fairly.

I (nor my son) aren't interested in going to school out of town away from his friends and the excellent quality public school education( that's one reason we're here) that Edina provides.

Aside from my situation, though, which is no Greek tragedy, wouldn't it be kinda cool if a waiver situation such as i detailed in the above post was allowed w/o having to move or change schools? I know for a fact that SLP, Bloomington, Hopkins,etc. would welcome players at any level. I think it would address the competitive balance within D6 (let alone other Districts)which is getting worryingly out of whack. If things keep going as they are, I can see many towns going the way of Richfield and simply stopping having hockey associations, which is no good for anyone, whether it be Tonka, Edina, Kennedy, or whomever.

[Night Train]

OK, that's your second post without mention of your closest neighbor, Minneapolis.

[Shinbone_News]

He could send him to BSM too then he'll waiver into SLP. Definitely sounds like an A SLP player.

BTW, I too agree Edina should have had multiple B1 teams at both PW and Bantam this year, as a minimum. Maybe multiple A or AA teams instead.

+2.

I just made a quick survey of Edina Peewees. Here's the tally of wins-losses-ties to this point in the season:

PWAA 40-0-0
PWA 36-4-1
PWB1 35-4-0
PWB2 (Black) 20-4-2
PWB2 (Gold) 13-5-1
PWB2 (Green) 22-7-1
PWB2 (White) 25-3-1
PWC (Black) 17-4-1
PWC (Green) --N/A -- (Seem to have password protected their results)
PWC (White) 20-8-1

Total: 228-39-8

That's an .830 batting average, folks.

Like I said, Edina likes to win above all else. Looking at these numbers tells me they probably should have 2 AA teams, 2 A teams, 2 B1 teams, 2 B2 teams, and 2 C-Teams.

At least they'd beat each other up a couple times per year. But that would sacrifice the possibility of going undefeated for three or four years straight.

[57special]

OK, that's your second post without mention of your closest neighbor, Minneapolis.

No offense. EP, Hopkins, SLP, Bloomington, Richfield,
MINNEAPOLIS... am i missing anyone else who borders Edina? Tonka?

[MrBoDangles]

He could send him to BSM too then he'll waiver into SLP. Definitely sounds like an A SLP player.

BTW, I too agree Edina should have had multiple B1 teams at both PW and Bantam this year, as a minimum. Maybe multiple A or AA teams instead.

+2.

I just made a quick survey of Edina Peewees. Here's the tally of wins-losses-ties to this point in the season:

PWAA 40-0-0
PWA 36-4-1
PWB1 35-4-0
PWB2 (Black) 20-4-2
PWB2 (Gold) 13-5-1
PWB2 (Green) 22-7-1
PWB2 (White) 25-3-1
PWC (Black) 17-4-1
PWC (Green) --N/A -- (Seem to have password protected their results)
PWC (White) 20-8-1

Total: 228-39-8

That's an .830 batting average, folks.

Like I said, Edina likes to win above all else. Looking at these numbers tells me they probably should have 2 AA teams, 2 A teams, 2 B1 teams, 2 B2 teams, and 2 C-Teams.

At least they'd beat each other up a couple times per year. But that would sacrifice the possibility of going undefeated for three or four years straight.

The one team had their page locked as punishment for being under the 60% win mark.

No mercy for slackers!!

[Jerry Lundegaard]

He could send him to BSM too then he'll waiver into SLP. Definitely sounds like an A SLP player.

BTW, I too agree Edina should have had multiple B1 teams at both PW and Bantam this year, as a minimum. Maybe multiple A or AA teams instead.

+2.

I just made a quick survey of Edina Peewees. Here's the tally of wins-losses-ties to this point in the season:

PWAA 40-0-0
PWA 36-4-1
PWB1 35-4-0
PWB2 (Black) 20-4-2
PWB2 (Gold) 13-5-1
PWB2 (Green) 22-7-1
PWB2 (White) 25-3-1
PWC (Black) 17-4-1
PWC (Green) --N/A -- (Seem to have password protected their results)
PWC (White) 20-8-1

Total: 228-39-8

That's an .830 batting average, folks.

Like I said, Edina likes to win above all else. Looking at these numbers tells me they probably should have 2 AA teams, 2 A teams, 2 B1 teams, 2 B2 teams, and 2 C-Teams.

At least they'd beat each other up a couple times per year. But that would sacrifice the possibility of going undefeated for three or four years straight.

Buncha liberal whack jobbers on this board eh Margie?

Now we gotta have twelve A teams in Edina and dole out some of our "undersized" talent to surrounding communities!

Pretty soon they'll be askin us to pay for everything too.

Since when do ya gotta go .500 to have a successful season.

[Hockey guy1486]

3 points

1. When is it ALL about winning vs developing
2. How many other associations have 10 Pee Wee teams (lots of kids to pick from)
3. WHO REALLY CARES

[MrBoDangles]

He could send him to BSM too then he'll waiver into SLP. Definitely sounds like an A SLP player.

BTW, I too agree Edina should have had multiple B1 teams at both PW and Bantam this year, as a minimum. Maybe multiple A or AA teams instead.

+2.

I just made a quick survey of Edina Peewees. Here's the tally of wins-losses-ties to this point in the season:

PWAA 40-0-0
PWA 36-4-1
PWB1 35-4-0
PWB2 (Black) 20-4-2
PWB2 (Gold) 13-5-1
PWB2 (Green) 22-7-1
PWB2 (White) 25-3-1
PWC (Black) 17-4-1
PWC (Green) --N/A -- (Seem to have password protected their results)
PWC (White) 20-8-1

Total: 228-39-8

That's an .830 batting average, folks.

Like I said, Edina likes to win above all else. Looking at these numbers tells me they probably should have 2 AA teams, 2 A teams, 2 B1 teams, 2 B2 teams, and 2 C-Teams.

At least they'd beat each other up a couple times per year. But that would sacrifice the possibility of going undefeated for three or four years straight.

Buncha liberal whack jobbers on this board eh Margie?

Now we gotta have twelve A teams in Edina and dole out some of our "undersized" talent to surrounding communities!

Pretty soon they'll be askin us to pay for everything too.

Since when do ya gotta go .500 to have a successful season.

Your views are holding the kids back.

[Jerry Lundegaard]

3 points

1. When is it ALL about winning vs developing
2. How many other associations have 10 Pee Wee teams (lots of kids to pick from)
3. WHO REALLY CARES

3 points

1. Do you have to have a losing record to be "developing" kids?
2. 10 teams, isn't that a good thing that so many kids are playing a sport, building relationships and skills, discipline and talents that will help them well beyond their playing days?
3. If you really don't care, why bother to reply?