Section realignment

[Chalk_Talk]

I get what you are all saying, I said it in my first post. Section 1 AA isn't the greatest every year, they win they have won games the last few years at state. In the winners bracket or losers bracket they are winning games. Change can be good.

[BlueLineSpecial]

I get what you are all saying, I said it in my first post. Section 1 AA isn't the greatest every year, they win they have won games the last few years at state. In the winners bracket or losers bracket they are winning games. Change can be good.

You know what they should do? Just put all the privates in one section. That will satisfy a lot of people.

Then rank all remaining public schools using an agreed-upon set of metrics (like the BCS)

Then take each of the top 7 teams based on that ranking and distribute one into each remaining section, and snake all other teams in as you go down the rankings until you get to the lowest ranked team.

Perfect distribution of quality opponents every time!

Each section 'tourney' can be played at a regional location, most favorable to the top seeded team, kinda how NCAA mens basketball does it. They can do each section tourney over a long weekend, which is no more difficult than winning 3 games in 3 days like in the State Tourney

Boom

[Bonehead]

I get what you are all saying, I said it in my first post. Section 1 AA isn't the greatest every year, they win they have won games the last few years at state. In the winners bracket or losers bracket they are winning games. Change can be good.

You know what they should do? Just put all the privates in one section. That will satisfy a lot of people.

Then rank all remaining public schools using an agreed-upon set of metrics (like the BCS)

Then take each of the top 7 teams based on that ranking and distribute one into each remaining section, and snake all other teams in as you go down the rankings until you get to the lowest ranked team.

Perfect distribution of quality opponents every time!

Each section 'tourney' can be played at a regional location, most favorable to the top seeded team, kinda how NCAA mens basketball does it. They can do each section tourney over a long weekend, which is no more difficult than winning 3 games in 3 days like in the State Tourney

Boom

Maybe the MSHSL could move the tourneys to Canterbury, post odds, sell bracket cards and make some real dough!

[Metrohockeyfan]

Though I agree that 6AA needs to be balanced out, that will take away from the Lake Conference having as many important games, due to less section implications. However, it would also bring the Edina vs. EP rivalry to another level.

[VicKevlar]

Seeing as 7 of 8 sections have 9 teams, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to have 1 section with 10 teams - Moundsview could always move to 5AA, leaving 6AA with 8 teams.

I'm assuming that there's a good chance that Cooper and Armstrong will coop...if not next year, then the year after. That would leave 6AA with 7 teams. But I suppose that another geographically-permissive option is to move Buffalo from 8AA to 6AA.

Is there's a reason not to consider shifting the North Metro Stars from 5AA down to 6AA?

There is no more North Metro Stars. They folded after last year. The Park Center skaters went to Osseo. Fridley and Columbia Heights went to Irondale.

[Bonehead]

There is no more North Metro Stars. They folded after last year. The Park Center skaters went to Osseo. Fridley and Columbia Heights went to Irondale.

That's a good reason! I was gonna say it but I figured I'd be wrong.

[almostashappy]

There is no more North Metro Stars. They folded after last year. The Park Center skaters went to Osseo. Fridley and Columbia Heights went to Irondale.

That's a good reason! I was gonna say it but I figured I'd be wrong.

Oops, forgot about that. Funny that they're still listed on the MSHSL 2012-13 Section Assignments web page:

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/competitiveS ... tivity=410

[Bonehead]

Oddly enough that's where I went to check. That's why I didn't wanna say...

[goldy313]

State Tournament record from 2007 until present:
1AA 6-9
2AA 9-8
3AA 7-10
4AA 9-8
5AA 4-11
6AA 16-2
7AA 8-8
8AA 8-9

So is 1AA really that bad? No, they're pretty much equal to everyone but 5AA which has been bad and 6AA which hasn't lost since 2008.

Prior Lake has no chance of ever being in Section 1, Farmington isn't leaving either, Hastings is in section 1 in most sports so they're the logical school if one gets moved, the MSHSL moved Hasting wrestling program into 1AAA when Austin went down a class and a team was needed to replace the Packers.

The middle school that feeds Century has very few hockey players, someone told me under 20 but I don't know that for a fact. It is true Century is the smallest AA school (not counting opt ups) New Ulm picked up Sleepy Eye and St Mary's when their program folded, New Ulm was granted an exemption to stay in class A for this cycle. If the co-op stays then they'll be an AA school. Given the numbers Century would have to consider not opting up.

[blueblood]

It pains me to correct you, Tonka lost in 2010 to Edina in the finals...

[celly93]

Since 2008, when the sections as we know them came to fruition, the records in the QUARTERFINALS are as follows:

Section 1: 1-4
Section 2: 3-2
Section 3: 3-2
Section 4: 3-2
Section 5: 1-4
Section 6: 5-0
Section 7: 1-4
Section 8: 3-2

[almostashappy]

Prior Lake has no chance of ever being in Section 1, Farmington isn't leaving either, Hastings is in section 1 in most sports so they're the logical school if one gets moved, the MSHSL moved Hasting wrestling program into 1AAA when Austin went down a class and a team was needed to replace the Packers.

The middle school that feeds Century has very few hockey players, someone told me under 20 but I don't know that for a fact. It is true Century is the smallest AA school (not counting opt ups) New Ulm picked up Sleepy Eye and St Mary's when their program folded, New Ulm was granted an exemption to stay in class A for this cycle. If the co-op stays then they'll be an AA school. Given the numbers Century would have to consider not opting up.

Here we again distinguish between what the MSHSL is likely to do, and what they ought to do if competitive balance was a priority.

So if we can't move one or two decent teams into 1AA, or break up 6AA a bit, then the status quo realignment....

- New Ulm Coop takes Century spot in 1AA.
- Rogers takes the North Metro spot in 5AA.
- STA added to 3AA (giving it 10 teams). If they're really feeling frisky, they might throw CDH into 4AA (better geographic fit than STA).

Meh.

[Puckguy19]

Seeing as 7 of 8 sections have 9 teams, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to have 1 section with 10 teams - Moundsview could always move to 5AA, leaving 6AA with 8 teams.

I'm assuming that there's a good chance that Cooper and Armstrong will coop...if not next year, then the year after. That would leave 6AA with 7 teams. But I suppose that another geographically-permissive option is to move Buffalo from 8AA to 6AA.

Is there's a reason not to consider shifting the North Metro Stars from 5AA down to 6AA?

There is no more North Metro Stars. They folded after last year. The Park Center skaters went to Osseo. Fridley and Columbia Heights went to Irondale.

Who got to keep all the trophies?

[SEMNHOCKEYFAN]

Forgot Century in Section 1, but otherwise that looks about right.

I was guessing/hoping that Century will drop under the A/AA cutoff and will decide not to opt up.

Gets a lot harder to strengthen 1AA if Century does stay AA...would probably need to leave PL or Burnsville in 2AA just to keep the headcounts comparable.

I know Centurys enrollement is down but is it really that bad that they may have a choice to play class A are not?? If so id say it could give Class A some compatition but how bad does that look for Rochester wise.

[hockeydad]

Another thing to consider is the Le Sueur/St Peter/TCU coop. They were given an exemption to stay in Class A four years ago when they added Montgomery-Lonsdale to the mix. They were granted taht exemption two years ago as well. Will they still get that exemption?
Another thing to consider with Le Sueur and New Ulm, if they end up in AA - Before giving the Le Sueur co-op their exemption, they had been assigned to Section 2AA.

[HShockeywatcher]

Another thing to consider is the Le Sueur/St Peter/TCU coop. They were given an exemption to stay in Class A four years ago when they added Montgomery-Lonsdale to the mix. They were granted taht exemption two years ago as well. Will they still get that exemption?
Another thing to consider with Le Sueur and New Ulm, if they end up in AA - Before giving the Le Sueur co-op their exemption, they had been assigned to Section 2AA.

Is there any possibility that teams that would individually be Class A teams but coop because they couldn't form teams without it would be put in Class A to begin with instead of AA?

[goldy313]

Dodge County is made up of all small schools, Winona would be below the line as well. It's total enrollment of all the schools in the co-op.

I believe New Ulm and LeSeuer were given exemptions because they picked up programs that folded in the fall, which would have left kids without a place to play. Usually co-ops are determined earlier, I know Albert Lea has a co-op in wrestling that was going through the process of dissolving in December for the 2013 - 2014 season.

If memory serves New Ulm was going to 6AA

[nahc]

Last 2 years:

1AA State Consolation Champs; 3rd place Overall

What have ya done for me lately..........pretty darn good for being the kick around Section. I know there are a LOT of teams/sections that would love to have that record........!!

[HShockeywatcher]

Dodge County is made up of all small schools, Winona would be below the line as well. It's total enrollment of all the schools in the co-op.

I know it is, but I think that's stupid. If every school in the co-op would be in Class A individually, the co-op happens so a team can be fielded, without it (in most cases) none of the schools would have a team.

Minneapolis is another good example. Only one of the 8 schools in the co-op would be a AA school on its own, and if it could field a team on its own, it wouldn't be part of the co-op (not likely anyway).

Co-ops being in Class A defeats the whole purpose of both Class A and having a co-op, in my opinion.
Are there any co-ops that have been successful in the past?

[goldy313]

Are there any co-ops that have been successful in the past?

It depends on what you mean by success and just exactly how you classify a co-op.

New Ulm has a co-op with Cathedral and MVL, Lourdes has a co-op with Stewartville and both teams would probably be as successful alone, winning multiple section championships, but the co-ops allow kids from schools that wouldn't otherwise field a team play high school hockey. Thief River Falls would belong in this category as well.

Of course the above are A schools, Austin, and Cloquet have had long standing co-ops and have put teams in the AA state tournament in the last decade or so, neither really having success but did make it. Elk River would be a co-op that has had success at state at the AA level.

On the other end are teams like Dodge County, River Lakes, Minneapolis, North Metro, etc. that making it past the play in game at sections is an accomplishment, clearly being a co-op and forced into AA hasn't helped them one bit beyond kids being able to participate, which is the goal after all.

[goldy313]

If Century ends up in A they'll probably lose a bunch of their AA opponents and have to try and find A teams like Northfield, New Prague, and Red Wing to fill in.

Long term do you try and hold on to AA in hope of change in demographics or do you go to A and try and find success in hope of maintaining some momentum.

A week or so ago the Rochester paper posted an article saying 19% of the people in Olmsted County were foreign born, maybe Rochester is going through the same thing St. Paul did.