District 8 Squirt "B" teams in playoffs over limit

[silentbutdeadly3139]

I could really give a rip how many games squirts play... But I do believe it should be left up to the coach.. Some teams need to utilize practice time. Some teams might need more game experience.

Don't think it should be up MN hockey to decide whats best for every team.

Trust me the kids want to play games..

Kids want to eat candy all the time too and too much of a good thing can turn out bad. It's all about balance. There are some parents, if left alone, would play 100 games even if not all parents or kids on the team could'nt commit or pay for that many. So there nees to be a balance ... what that is I don't know.

[BadgerBob82]

I was just looking at the WCHA standings. The have all played 34 games. I agree 35 is not enough for Squirts.

[InThePipes]

I was just looking at the WCHA standings. The have all played 34 games. I agree 35 is not enough for Squirts.

Please keep playing as many games as you can possibly schedule at Squirts, we'll sacrifice a few games for practice ice, we'll see ya in a couple of years.

[InThePipes]

I was just looking at the WCHA standings. The have all played 34 games. I agree 35 is not enough for Squirts.

Please keep playing as many games as you can possibly schedule at Squirts, we'll sacrifice a few games for practice ice, we'll see ya in a couple of years.

[loveitorleaveit]

District 8 is allowing "B" squirt teams to play even though they will be over the 35 game limit with playoff games. (Inver Grove Heights, Eagan(Blue),Cottage Grove and Rosemount (Green). What happen to rules just check out each teams website unless they have removed them. And those are just the reported games.

You are from Forest Lake. Why are you worried about 10 year old kids in a different district?

iseepalms,
how many did your Forest Lake team play this year? over or under 35 games?

[MrBoDangles]

Gretzky played 85 (eighty five) games during his winter season as a ten year old and then played lacrosse in the summer.

[old goalie85]

FL squirt A played 34.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

FL squirt A played 34.

too boring. Couldn't you say 86 ( eighty six ) and bowl in the summer.

[MrBoDangles]

FL squirt A played 34.

too boring. Couldn't you say 86 ( eighty six ) and bowl in the summer.

Squirts have more than MN high school that has 25 (twenty five).

Is the talent leaving for Jrs because they have closer to 86 (eighty six)?

[iseepalms]

So pretty much everyone thinks that 35 games is not enough. My personal opinion would be to make it 45 not counting playoffs and encourage all teams to participate in the playoffs. The season starts in October for most some September and lasts through March 17th this year. That is 5 and a half months.

[Marty2013]

Maybe best to start Squirts later inthe year. Start in November like the high school teams do if the seaosn really goes until Mid-March. ?

[SCBlueLiner]

Start in October with practices only. Games do not start until November and go through mid-March. Play a 45 game season, over 4 1/2 months that is 10 games a month, about 2 per week. Two games a week is not too much, heck you could knock those out with a Saturday doubleheader and still have 3-4 practices during the week. Practice to game ratio is 4 to 1 (counting the doubleheader as 1 event) under that scenario.

[YouthHockeyHub]

I could write for hours on this dicey topic.

Game limit: The game limit is 35 games. Period. Any game played with a clock, ref and scoresheet is a game. You get 35, that's it. Shared practices or agreed upon "birthday parties" happen ALL the time (these are games played between teams that are not documented). The top SQA teams all played over 50 "games" this year. But most are smart enough to only document 35. The DD's know it's happening and none of them care. It's when these teams get sloppy with their documentation is when they get into trouble (sloppy equals t-shirts, websites, etc with game counts on them).

Back to 35 means 35. I have interviewed plenty of DDs on this topic. They will never tell me on the record that they will allow games over 35. But D3 is a perfect example. OMG for example is right on the number 33 games heading into District Playoffs. It is well known that their District Tournament only counts as 2 games, despite the fact that OMG will play 5 or so games. But because it only counts as 2, they hit their 35 without leaving any games "on the table".

In summary. Teams carefully play more than their limit and as long as they dot their i's and cross their t's, they get away with it.

Sidebar: I've gotten more than 10 (less than 20) calls from associations requesting that I remove games from our database in order to stay within their game limit. I sorta knew in advance that these requests would come. Why? Teams/Parents can't help themselves when they get a win to go and post it. We deleted hundreds of "birthday party" games that had no refs and no scoresheet this year. Here's how it shakes out: Team A beats Team B in a scrimmage. Proud Team A parent posts the score. Team B parents, sends me a note, "that wasn't a game!!!" I ask Team A if there were refs and a score sheet. I don't get a reply, we remove it

Hopefully what I say doesn't flame...wrote this from my perspective.

My opinion: Squirts should be allowed more games. Times are way different today. The rule was probably established when the window of a Squirt season was shorter. Now the Squirts are full boar by late October and Districts end in late Feb early March. 35 games back then was a great limit to insure proper practice to game ratios. As for kids wanting to play games? That's a chicken and egg conversation for another thread. I interviewed Mike Randolph today at the state tournament (the topic was youth hockey development) and I can't tell you how many times he said, "you have to make it fun, and sadly...the games are the most fun for the kids.."

[elliott70]

I could write for hours on this dicey topic.

Game limit: The game limit is 35 games. Period. Any game played with a clock, ref and scoresheet is a game. You get 35, that's it. Shared practices or agreed upon "birthday parties" happen ALL the time (these are games played between teams that are not documented). The top SQA teams all played over 50 "games" this year. But most are smart enough to only document 35. The DD's know it's happening and none of them care. It's when these teams get sloppy with their documentation is when they get into trouble (sloppy equals t-shirts, websites, etc with game counts on them).

Back to 35 means 35. I have interviewed plenty of DDs on this topic. They will never tell me on the record that they will allow games over 35. But D3 is a perfect example. OMG for example is right on the number 33 games heading into District Playoffs. It is well known that their District Tournament only counts as 2 games, despite the fact that OMG will play 5 or so games. But because it only counts as 2, they hit their 35 without leaving any games "on the table".

In summary. Teams carefully play more than their limit and as long as they dot their i's and cross their t's, they get away with it.

Sidebar: I've gotten more than 10 (less than 20) calls from associations requesting that I remove games from our database in order to stay within their game limit. I sorta knew in advance that these requests would come. Why? Teams/Parents can't help themselves when they get a win to go and post it. We deleted hundreds of "birthday party" games that had no refs and no scoresheet this year. Here's how it shakes out: Team A beats Team B in a scrimmage. Proud Team A parent posts the score. Team B parents, sends me a note, "that wasn't a game!!!" I ask Team A if there were refs and a score sheet. I don't get a reply, we remove it

Hopefully what I say doesn't flame...wrote this from my perspective.

My opinion: Squirts should be allowed more games. Times are way different today. The rule was probably established when the window of a Squirt season was shorter. Now the Squirts are full boar by late October and Districts end in late Feb early March. 35 games back then was a great limit to insure proper practice to game ratios. As for kids wanting to play games? That's a chicken and egg conversation for another thread. I interviewed Mike Randolph today at the state tournament (the topic was youth hockey development) and I can't tell you how many times he said, "you have to make it fun, and sadly...the games are the most fun for the kids.."

I allow more than 35 games.

[iseepalms]

Elliot, don't take this wrong because I agree with you but it has been known down here in the cities for a long time that hockey north of St. Cloud things are done differently which 90% I agree with, Down here they make us follow to many rules to the tee. The north rocks.

[YouthHockeyHub]

Elliot,

Love your post.

If I could favorite something I would. Not for allowing 35 or not allowing 35, but for having the nuts to say that you allow it.

Agree with Palms...the north does it right. Especially within district.

B1's play A, B2's play B1, etc.

It's mostly because of travel. It makes more sense for GR's B2 team to go play Greenway's B1 team down the road versus hauling ass up to Int'l Falls for a game on a weeknight.

[CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD]

The DD's know it's happening and none of them care.

At least in our case, I can't agree with this statement. In D2, it is written in the rules that a game is "any amount of time 2 teams play 5v5 full ice". Refs, scorebook and clock have no factor what so ever in determining what a game is. The DD has made this quite clear at meetings. We have been fined and put on probation by D2 for violations that are not necessarily due to documentation related issues. Typically, it is based upon whistle-blowers. Which can range from a parent from another team in our association who feels their player was cheated because they didn't get extra games, to those outside wishing to do the same. Now if you have evidence from D2 that your statement is true then I guess they have selectively enforced the rules. Which is just plain wrong and further evidence of D2's incompetent leadership. What I know is we now follow the rules to the letter of law in order to avoid further penalties which cost our members. If others are not abiding by these rules then I guess our kids are getting short changed on game play versus other associations. It has the potential to drive players away to alternate choices available.

[iseepalms]

What is the limit in AAA and is that getting to be an expense opition that Minnesota hockey should look at.

[mackjogger]

most all north of 50 games and some north of 60! Thats nuts..when do they practice???? or screw practice (ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED) Parents?

2012-13 USA 02 - All Rankings

Rank Team/Website Record Rating AGD Sched Details
1 St Louis Blues 02 AAA 18-6-3 99.09 2.44 96.65
2 Chicago Mission 02 AAA 35-13-2 98.99 2.92 96.07
3 South Shore Kings (Elite) 02 AAA 53-6-4 98.54 3.39 95.15
4 Little Caesars 02 AA 50-7-5 98.06 3.32 94.74
5 Mid-Fairfield Yankees 02 AAA 42-14-3 97.92 2.25 95.67
6 Anaheim Jr Ducks 02 AAA 33-4-5 97.80 2.85 94.95
7 Syracuse Nationals 02 AAA 36-16-7 97.73 1.93 95.80
8 San Jose Sharp Shooters 02 AAA 13-6-3 97.37 1.68 95.69
9 Chicago Fury 02 AAA 38-11-2 97.36 2.90 94.46
10 Team Illinois 02 AAA 35-13-3 97.28 2.31 94.97
11 Highland Park Falcons (CSDHL) 02 AA 40-5-5 97.24 3.28 93.96
12 Boston Advantage (White) 02 AAA 36-5-7 97.18 2.81 94.37
13 New Jersey Colonials 02 AAA 29-13-3 96.87 1.64 95.23
14 Mercer Chiefs 02 AAA 39-17-11 96.56 1.40 95.16
15 Cleveland Jr Lumberjacks 02 AAA 44-15-2 96.38 2.23 94.15
16 Bay State Breakers (Elite) 02 AAA 35-17-5 96.37 1.47 94.90
17 Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 02 AAA 47-11-5 96.35 2.69 93.66
18 Middlesex Islanders (Elite) 02 AAA 36-17-6 96.08 1.47 94.61
19 New Hampshire Avalanche (Elite) 02 AAA 30-20-10 96.01 0.53 95.48
20 Boston Bandits (Elite) 02 AAA 30-19-4 95.96 1.47 94.49
21 LA Jr Kings Elite 02 AAA 9-16-4 95.83 -1.37 97.20
22 Long Island Royals 02 AAA 43-14-4 95.69 2.22 93.47
23 Allen Park Huskies 02 AA 40-18-4 95.42 1.56 93.86
24 Westchester Express 02 AAA 33-23-7 95.40 0.92 94.48
25 Livonia Knights 02 AA 34-18-6 95.37 1.60 93.77
26 Victory Honda 02 AA 25-16-8 95.32 1.24 94.08
27 Grand Rapids Griffins 02 AA 27-13-4 95.28 2.09 93.19
28 Boch Blazers (Elite) 02 AAA 24-22-4 95.09 0.30 94.79
29 Providence Capitals (Elite) 02 AAA 30-26-3 94.92 0.40 94.52

[CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD]

most all north of 50 games and some north of 60! Thats nuts..when do they practice???? or screw practice (ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED) Parents?

2012-13 USA 02 - All Rankings

Rank Team/Website Record Rating AGD Sched Details
1 St Louis Blues 02 AAA 18-6-3 99.09 2.44 96.65
2 Chicago Mission 02 AAA 35-13-2 98.99 2.92 96.07
3 South Shore Kings (Elite) 02 AAA 53-6-4 98.54 3.39 95.15
4 Little Caesars 02 AA 50-7-5 98.06 3.32 94.74
5 Mid-Fairfield Yankees 02 AAA 42-14-3 97.92 2.25 95.67
6 Anaheim Jr Ducks 02 AAA 33-4-5 97.80 2.85 94.95
7 Syracuse Nationals 02 AAA 36-16-7 97.73 1.93 95.80
8 San Jose Sharp Shooters 02 AAA 13-6-3 97.37 1.68 95.69
9 Chicago Fury 02 AAA 38-11-2 97.36 2.90 94.46
10 Team Illinois 02 AAA 35-13-3 97.28 2.31 94.97
11 Highland Park Falcons (CSDHL) 02 AA 40-5-5 97.24 3.28 93.96
12 Boston Advantage (White) 02 AAA 36-5-7 97.18 2.81 94.37
13 New Jersey Colonials 02 AAA 29-13-3 96.87 1.64 95.23
14 Mercer Chiefs 02 AAA 39-17-11 96.56 1.40 95.16
15 Cleveland Jr Lumberjacks 02 AAA 44-15-2 96.38 2.23 94.15
16 Bay State Breakers (Elite) 02 AAA 35-17-5 96.37 1.47 94.90
17 Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 02 AAA 47-11-5 96.35 2.69 93.66
18 Middlesex Islanders (Elite) 02 AAA 36-17-6 96.08 1.47 94.61
19 New Hampshire Avalanche (Elite) 02 AAA 30-20-10 96.01 0.53 95.48
20 Boston Bandits (Elite) 02 AAA 30-19-4 95.96 1.47 94.49
21 LA Jr Kings Elite 02 AAA 9-16-4 95.83 -1.37 97.20
22 Long Island Royals 02 AAA 43-14-4 95.69 2.22 93.47
23 Allen Park Huskies 02 AA 40-18-4 95.42 1.56 93.86
24 Westchester Express 02 AAA 33-23-7 95.40 0.92 94.48
25 Livonia Knights 02 AA 34-18-6 95.37 1.60 93.77
26 Victory Honda 02 AA 25-16-8 95.32 1.24 94.08
27 Grand Rapids Griffins 02 AA 27-13-4 95.28 2.09 93.19
28 Boch Blazers (Elite) 02 AAA 24-22-4 95.09 0.30 94.79
29 Providence Capitals (Elite) 02 AAA 30-26-3 94.92 0.40 94.52

You can visit the Chicago Mission website and see they practice 3-4 days/week most weeks beginning in early Sept. With that no reason 50-60 games is unreasonable.

[JSR]

most all north of 50 games and some north of 60! Thats nuts..when do they practice???? or screw practice (ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED) Parents?

2012-13 USA 02 - All Rankings

Rank Team/Website Record Rating AGD Sched Details
1 St Louis Blues 02 AAA 18-6-3 99.09 2.44 96.65
2 Chicago Mission 02 AAA 35-13-2 98.99 2.92 96.07
3 South Shore Kings (Elite) 02 AAA 53-6-4 98.54 3.39 95.15
4 Little Caesars 02 AA 50-7-5 98.06 3.32 94.74
5 Mid-Fairfield Yankees 02 AAA 42-14-3 97.92 2.25 95.67
6 Anaheim Jr Ducks 02 AAA 33-4-5 97.80 2.85 94.95
7 Syracuse Nationals 02 AAA 36-16-7 97.73 1.93 95.80
8 San Jose Sharp Shooters 02 AAA 13-6-3 97.37 1.68 95.69
9 Chicago Fury 02 AAA 38-11-2 97.36 2.90 94.46
10 Team Illinois 02 AAA 35-13-3 97.28 2.31 94.97
11 Highland Park Falcons (CSDHL) 02 AA 40-5-5 97.24 3.28 93.96
12 Boston Advantage (White) 02 AAA 36-5-7 97.18 2.81 94.37
13 New Jersey Colonials 02 AAA 29-13-3 96.87 1.64 95.23
14 Mercer Chiefs 02 AAA 39-17-11 96.56 1.40 95.16
15 Cleveland Jr Lumberjacks 02 AAA 44-15-2 96.38 2.23 94.15
16 Bay State Breakers (Elite) 02 AAA 35-17-5 96.37 1.47 94.90
17 Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 02 AAA 47-11-5 96.35 2.69 93.66
18 Middlesex Islanders (Elite) 02 AAA 36-17-6 96.08 1.47 94.61
19 New Hampshire Avalanche (Elite) 02 AAA 30-20-10 96.01 0.53 95.48
20 Boston Bandits (Elite) 02 AAA 30-19-4 95.96 1.47 94.49
21 LA Jr Kings Elite 02 AAA 9-16-4 95.83 -1.37 97.20
22 Long Island Royals 02 AAA 43-14-4 95.69 2.22 93.47
23 Allen Park Huskies 02 AA 40-18-4 95.42 1.56 93.86
24 Westchester Express 02 AAA 33-23-7 95.40 0.92 94.48
25 Livonia Knights 02 AA 34-18-6 95.37 1.60 93.77
26 Victory Honda 02 AA 25-16-8 95.32 1.24 94.08
27 Grand Rapids Griffins 02 AA 27-13-4 95.28 2.09 93.19
28 Boch Blazers (Elite) 02 AAA 24-22-4 95.09 0.30 94.79
29 Providence Capitals (Elite) 02 AAA 30-26-3 94.92 0.40 94.52

My son plays Tier 1, they practiced on ice a minimum of 3 times a week, sometimes more, plus dryland. Reality is they practiced more times this winter than any association I know of (as far as official practices that is) plus they played 68 games, and they got alot better than any association kids down here.............. In case you are not aware though, it's pretty common to play as many as 5 games in a weekend at the Tier 1 level so that is how they get that many practices while also getting that many games, they also start in September and get quite a few weekends completely off to just do kid things, not asking for your opinion on the matter just letting you know how it works, personally I like it.

But let's throw out Tier 1 and association hockey for the moment, because honestly it's apples and oranges in some ways, hypothetically speaking let's say we had two teams both playing same level. Team A practiced 80 hours this winter and played 35 games. Team B practiced 80 hours and played 60 games. Which teams' players probably got better over the course of the winter? I love the intent of the practice to game ratio but due to ice time restrictions most often it's not a realistic goal. As for Tier 1 teams or WI association teams that have no game limits, the teams that get to 60 games aren't playing at home, they are picking up away games because they don't have anymore home ice so the mentality is that it's better to play a road game than not play or practice at all........ isn't it? And remember most states don't have the weather to count on outdoor ice being available the way you do up in MN, even here in southern WI you are lucky to get a month's worth of decent outdoor ice most winters.

[old goalie85]

JSR always the voice of reason. Outdoor ice in mn "can be" a bit of a trump card. I thought you can play AAA in Mn. I heard Russell Stover practices at Mn Made. So for the right family that option is avaliable.

[mackjogger]

most all north of 50 games and some north of 60! Thats nuts..when do they practice???? or screw practice (ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED) Parents?

2012-13 USA 02 - All Rankings

Rank Team/Website Record Rating AGD Sched Details
1 St Louis Blues 02 AAA 18-6-3 99.09 2.44 96.65
2 Chicago Mission 02 AAA 35-13-2 98.99 2.92 96.07
3 South Shore Kings (Elite) 02 AAA 53-6-4 98.54 3.39 95.15
4 Little Caesars 02 AA 50-7-5 98.06 3.32 94.74
5 Mid-Fairfield Yankees 02 AAA 42-14-3 97.92 2.25 95.67
6 Anaheim Jr Ducks 02 AAA 33-4-5 97.80 2.85 94.95
7 Syracuse Nationals 02 AAA 36-16-7 97.73 1.93 95.80
8 San Jose Sharp Shooters 02 AAA 13-6-3 97.37 1.68 95.69
9 Chicago Fury 02 AAA 38-11-2 97.36 2.90 94.46
10 Team Illinois 02 AAA 35-13-3 97.28 2.31 94.97
11 Highland Park Falcons (CSDHL) 02 AA 40-5-5 97.24 3.28 93.96
12 Boston Advantage (White) 02 AAA 36-5-7 97.18 2.81 94.37
13 New Jersey Colonials 02 AAA 29-13-3 96.87 1.64 95.23
14 Mercer Chiefs 02 AAA 39-17-11 96.56 1.40 95.16
15 Cleveland Jr Lumberjacks 02 AAA 44-15-2 96.38 2.23 94.15
16 Bay State Breakers (Elite) 02 AAA 35-17-5 96.37 1.47 94.90
17 Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 02 AAA 47-11-5 96.35 2.69 93.66
18 Middlesex Islanders (Elite) 02 AAA 36-17-6 96.08 1.47 94.61
19 New Hampshire Avalanche (Elite) 02 AAA 30-20-10 96.01 0.53 95.48
20 Boston Bandits (Elite) 02 AAA 30-19-4 95.96 1.47 94.49
21 LA Jr Kings Elite 02 AAA 9-16-4 95.83 -1.37 97.20
22 Long Island Royals 02 AAA 43-14-4 95.69 2.22 93.47
23 Allen Park Huskies 02 AA 40-18-4 95.42 1.56 93.86
24 Westchester Express 02 AAA 33-23-7 95.40 0.92 94.48
25 Livonia Knights 02 AA 34-18-6 95.37 1.60 93.77
26 Victory Honda 02 AA 25-16-8 95.32 1.24 94.08
27 Grand Rapids Griffins 02 AA 27-13-4 95.28 2.09 93.19
28 Boch Blazers (Elite) 02 AAA 24-22-4 95.09 0.30 94.79
29 Providence Capitals (Elite) 02 AAA 30-26-3 94.92 0.40 94.52

My son plays Tier 1, they practiced on ice a minimum of 3 times a week, sometimes more, plus dryland. Reality is they practiced more times this winter than any association I know of (as far as official practices that is) plus they played 68 games, and they got alot better than any association kids down here.............. In case you are not aware though, it's pretty common to play as many as 5 games in a weekend at the Tier 1 level so that is how they get that many practices while also getting that many games, they also start in September and get quite a few weekends completely off to just do kid things, not asking for your opinion on the matter just letting you know how it works, personally I like it.

But let's throw out Tier 1 and association hockey for the moment, because honestly it's apples and oranges in some ways, hypothetically speaking let's say we had two teams both playing same level. Team A practiced 80 hours this winter and played 35 games. Team B practiced 80 hours and played 60 games. Which teams' players probably got better over the course of the winter? I love the intent of the practice to game ratio but due to ice time restrictions most often it's not a realistic goal. As for Tier 1 teams or WI association teams that have no game limits, the teams that get to 60 games aren't playing at home, they are picking up away games because they don't have anymore home ice so the mentality is that it's better to play a road game than not play or practice at all........ isn't it? And remember most states don't have the weather to count on outdoor ice being available the way you do up in MN, even here in southern WI you are lucky to get a month's worth of decent outdoor ice most winters.

complete waste of resources....do the math. the additional ice time those kids get is insignificant. they spend HOURS in the car to get roughly 12 min of actual ice time. would be better off keeping little 10-11 year old johnny home and let him go to a puck shoot or get a power skating lesson.

60 game kid got 5 xtra hours of ice time and probably 75 hours of sitting in a car

*almost forgot...when the heck do these 11 yr olds do homework if they are on ice 5+++ days a week.

[InThePipes]

Start in October with practices only. Games do not start until November and go through mid-March. Play a 45 game season, over 4 1/2 months that is 10 games a month, about 2 per week. Two games a week is not too much, heck you could knock those out with a Saturday doubleheader and still have 3-4 practices during the week. Practice to game ratio is 4 to 1 (counting the doubleheader as 1 event) under that scenario.

Can you play "double-headers" with the MN Hockey "required rest" rule (minimum 3 hour break between games)?

To me, practices at about a 2.5:1 ratio is more realistic for most families. Outside of tournaments, Squirt teams probably play about 20 games over a 3 month period, so 6-7 games a month. With a 2.5:1 ratio that is 15-17 practices (or practice hours) per month, so with games/practices/tournaments you are already at 5-6 days per week of structured hockey activities a week, unless you are doing something like having every practice be 90 minutes in length to reduce the number of "practice sessions".

[old goalie85]

It was a good year of outdoor ice. Nice thing about that the kids will be out there for3-4 hrs. Not to mention The puck touches. How much better do squirts get playing an extra 10 to 20 more games ?? I think it is probable that the goalies get alot out of it. The skaters only have the puck for about 2mins the whole time. So let San Jose/Anaheim/Long Island squirts play all they want. Who cares ?? With winter hockey/Summer hockey/3x3/STP/mash/selects/super series How much hockey does a 10 yr old need ???