Private School Trash talk thread

thorhockey · Post by **thorhockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:40 am

Students are leaving their "home community" because something is lacking and being attracted to other schools, public and private.

Sorry HSHW but I disagree with your "something is lacking that's why they bolt" logic. Could it have something to do with proximity and where the parents work? Bigger odds of "bolting" to a metro private when you live in the metro.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:48 am

Put all privates in one section watch recuiting die because kids wouldn't leave their school for a 1 in 8 chance of making it to state. if they moved it would be to a public school in easy section. MNHSL is doing more to destroy public schools by this false preception that privates are better all around because their teams win.public schools take all level of kids no matter what. show me a kid at Hill that couldn't speak english when they started and became a straight A student when done!

DubCHAGuy · Post by **DubCHAGuy** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:51 am

thorhockey wrote:
Students are leaving their "home community" because something is lacking and being attracted to other schools, public and private.
Sorry HSHW but I disagree with your "something is lacking that's why they bolt" logic. Could it have something to do with proximity and where the parents work? Bigger odds of "bolting" to a metro private when you live in the metro.

If something is "lacking," why do so many of these private school players have siblings still attending those same public schools they left?

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:59 am

STA is really showing everyone what Class A hockey is all about. It's crazy what they have done with such a small enrollment. I don't know what their formula is, but these outstate teams have no excuse, they just don't have the "magic" that STA has. If only EGF had desire, decent coaching, or even a hint of community support. Thank you STA for showing the rest of Class A what they need to work on.

Quite a Cinderella story. A tiny private school, with extremely humble alumni, has taken the scant talent that Class A teams have available to them and found a way to transform themselves into Shattuck-beaters and 23-0 first two rounds-dominators. Even after 4 titles in 7 years, no one believed in them, and now they get the last laugh.

They are the best Class A team ever. Sure, they will officially be in AA next year, but they will always be A in my heart. When they beat a Shattuck or Hill-Murray again, I won't see a school that gets talent from a metro area of 3 million people (plus Wisconsin), I will see a plucky group of overachievers that found a way patch together just enough skill to beat the #4 ranked team 11-0. They don't even have a youth program, for God's sake, yet they still get it done. Amazing.

Forgive me if I shed a tear when STA raises their 5th trophy in 8 years today, because I know I won't see such perfection again until the day I meet the creator at the pearly gates. So much heart, so much grit, so much success squeezed out of a rag-tag jumble of rink rat neighborhood kids just trying their best to keep these games within 10 goals. It really is life-affirming.

Good-bye, my sweet Cadets. I know you must leave, but it doesn't make it any easier. If some day another private school hires even better coaches and builds an even nicer rink and offers even more in scholarship money which leads to kids fleeing STA for this newer hockey factory, don't worry, we in Class A will welcome you back with open arms. What you've done on the ice these last 8 years is exactly what the MSHSL had in mind when they made Class A, so you'll always be like family.

Godspeed, you classy underdogs, godspeed.

thorhockey · Post by **thorhockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:59 am

If something is "lacking," why do so many of these private school players have siblings still attending those same public schools they left?

Excellent point. I know of 2 examples of this. The "star" sibling (one a girl) left, and the "average" sibling stayed. If something was lacking in the school, or coaching, or arena wouldnt both leave? Theory debunked HSHW

next??

thorhockey · Post by **thorhockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:06 am

Great idea for bringing back Disney on this one Rainier
D4. The Mighty Ducks STA

Quack, Quack, Quack................................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93iLTn0BpBc

Pioneerprideguy · Post by **Pioneerprideguy** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:10 am

thorhockey wrote:
If something is "lacking," why do so many of these private school players have siblings still attending those same public schools they left?
Excellent point. I know of 2 examples of this. The "star" sibling (one a girl) left, and the "average" sibling stayed. If something was lacking in the school, or coaching, or arena wouldnt both leave? Theory debunked HSHW

next??

Maybe the parents decided to give the "star" player a better apportunity. It is obvious the parents saw something in this child and gave them more love and support. I think the parents were probably torn between placing the "average" child in an orphanage or just leaving them in the public school. In the end, what's the difference?

WayOutWest · Post by **WayOutWest** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:14 am

rainier wrote:STA is really showing everyone what Class A hockey is all about. It's crazy what they have done with such a small enrollment. I don't know what their formula is, but these outstate teams have no excuse, they just don't have the "magic" that STA has. If only EGF had desire, decent coaching, or even a hint of community support. Thank you STA for showing the rest of Class A what they need to work on.

Quite a Cinderella story. A tiny private school, with extremely humble alumni, has taken the scant talent that Class A teams have available to them and found a way to transform themselves into Shattuck-beaters and 23-0 first two rounds-dominators. Even after 4 titles in 7 years, no one believed in them, and now they get the last laugh.

They are the best Class A team ever. Sure, they will officially be in AA next year, but they will always be A in my heart. When they beat a Shattuck or Hill-Murray again, I won't see a school that gets talent from a metro area of 3 million people (plus Wisconsin), I will see a plucky group of overachievers that found a way patch together just enough skill to beat the #4 ranked team 11-0. They don't even have a youth program, for God's sake, yet they still get it done. Amazing.

Forgive me if I shed a tear when STA raises their 5th trophy in 8 years today, because I know I won't see such perfection again until the day I meet the creator at the pearly gates. So much heart, so much grit, so much success squeezed out of a rag-tag jumble of rink rat neighborhood kids just trying their best to keep these games within 10 goals. It really is life-affirming.

Good-bye, my sweet Cadets. I know you must leave, but it doesn't make it any easier. If some day another private school hires even better coaches and builds an even nicer rink and offers even more in scholarship money which leads to kids fleeing STA for this newer hockey factory, don't worry, we in Class A will welcome you back with open arms. What you've done on the ice these last 8 years is exactly what the MSHSL had in mind when they made Class A, so you'll always be like family.

Godspeed, you classy underdogs, godspeed.

This was COMPLETELY tongue-in-cheek.............uh..............right?
If so..................brilliant!!!!!!

If not.................uh.......................WHAT?

OGEE OGELTHORPE · Post by **OGEE OGELTHORPE** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:17 am

rainier wrote:STA is really showing everyone what Class A hockey is all about. It's crazy what they have done with such a small enrollment. I don't know what their formula is, but these outstate teams have no excuse, they just don't have the "magic" that STA has. If only EGF had desire, decent coaching, or even a hint of community support. Thank you STA for showing the rest of Class A what they need to work on.

Quite a Cinderella story. A tiny private school, with extremely humble alumni, has taken the scant talent that Class A teams have available to them and found a way to transform themselves into Shattuck-beaters and 23-0 first two rounds-dominators. Even after 4 titles in 7 years, no one believed in them, and now they get the last laugh.

They are the best Class A team ever. Sure, they will officially be in AA next year, but they will always be A in my heart. When they beat a Shattuck or Hill-Murray again, I won't see a school that gets talent from a metro area of 3 million people (plus Wisconsin), I will see a plucky group of overachievers that found a way patch together just enough skill to beat the #4 ranked team 11-0. They don't even have a youth program, for God's sake, yet they still get it done. Amazing.

Forgive me if I shed a tear when STA raises their 5th trophy in 8 years today, because I know I won't see such perfection again until the day I meet the creator at the pearly gates. So much heart, so much grit, so much success squeezed out of a rag-tag jumble of rink rat neighborhood kids just trying their best to keep these games within 10 goals. It really is life-affirming.

Good-bye, my sweet Cadets. I know you must leave, but it doesn't make it any easier. If some day another private school hires even better coaches and builds an even nicer rink and offers even more in scholarship money which leads to kids fleeing STA for this newer hockey factory, don't worry, we in Class A will welcome you back with open arms. What you've done on the ice these last 8 years is exactly what the MSHSL had in mind when they made Class A, so you'll always be like family.

Godspeed, you classy underdogs, godspeed.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:43 am

thorhockey wrote:
Students are leaving their "home community" because something is lacking and being attracted to other schools, public and private.
Sorry HSHW but I disagree with your "something is lacking that's why they bolt" logic. Could it have something to do with proximity and where the parents work? Bigger odds of "bolting" to a metro private when you live in the metro.

Are you joining rainier in the outstate vs. metro discussion, or are we having the public vs. private discussion?

Not quite sure Timmy needs to go to school near mommy's work instead of near where he lives if there is nothing lacking there.

Students do OE in other public schools for the exact same reasons. There are athletic programs that benefit from it in the exact same way. But, ultimately, it's okay because those are public schools.

thorhockey wrote:
If something is "lacking," why do so many of these private school players have siblings still attending those same public schools they left?
Excellent point. I know of 2 examples of this. The "star" sibling (one a girl) left, and the "average" sibling stayed. If something was lacking in the school, or coaching, or arena wouldnt both leave? Theory debunked HSHW

next??

Some OE or go to private for a specific academic program or class that is offered. Some it's an athletic program. Some it's facilities of one or the other. Some it's something else.

The same examples you are giving happen for academic reasons, non-athletic extracurriculars and athletics at public schools as well. I wouldn't assume that both children are the same with the same needs.

The was one person on this thread who discussed sending one of their children to a public school, then ended up sending their next two children to a private school. It happens.

I have heard countless people talk down about specific private schools because of their lack of acceptance of students with special needs. I have personally known multiple people in special education programs who chose to go to a specific private school because of the resources the special education program had that the public school did not.

For some, also, it is money. I have seen first hand parents financially unable to send all of their children to specific schools.

Every student is different and the needs of every student are different.

DubCHAGuy · Post by **DubCHAGuy** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:55 am

HShockeywatcher wrote: Some OE or go to private for a specific academic program or class that is offered. Some it's an athletic program. Some it's facilities of one or the other. Some it's something else.

Yes. Hockey in this case. Now we agree.

To the players credit, if you ask them about this, most will tell you they go to HM/STA/Breck/BSM etc. to play hockey, nothing more. At least they don't hide from it.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:56 am

HShockeywatcher wrote:http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article ... r_id=32770

Interesting article with opinions from Hermantown's coach. Couple excerpts:

-“It’s sad because some of these teams down here, they groom this kid, he’s their best player, they got a chance to do something, he bolts,” Plante said. “What does that do to that program? It kills them.”

-Plante said Jon Francisco and B.J. Radovich, Hawks standouts from the early 2000s, helped build the foundation of Hermantown’s model program. The Hawks rarely lose players because of transfers to other schools or early departures to junior leagues, in part because those early stars decided to stay.

So, unless I'm missing something from what he's saying, it seems that Mr. Plante and I are in total agreement with what is going on. Students are leaving their "home community" because something is lacking and being attracted to other schools, public and private.

MrBoDangles wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:Public or private, to what extent does the class a school plays hockey in actually factor into the decision of an 8th grader and his parents on where to attend high school?

This gets brought up a decent amount, and I'm curious what people have seen and what effect it has had on decisions.
There's a draw to be in the state tournament that you don't seem to know about.

STA was able to recruit these kids buy building a nice rink and giving them easy odds to make it to the tournament.. It was a stunner when Mahtomedi was able to get past them a couple times.

STA should be put in 4AA so that the mirage will go away...

It's interesting that every question somehow turns around into "bash STA."

So, are you saying moving to AA could potentially hurt the ability to attract quality players? Interesting.

I gave you the truth......

Why do you think STA sucked at Hockey for so long?

Terry Thompson III · Post by **Terry Thompson III** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:58 am

an all private school section would be great.

So many stuck up kids/parents battling it out for that one chance to get to the X!

St Thomas
Hill Murray
Benilde
Breck

The recruiting wars would be incredible.

thorhockey · Post by **thorhockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:09 am

an all private school section would be great.

You would think all privates would want this. Think of the quality of hockey here to quench your thirst for seeing so much talent vying for that one spot at state
HSHW, PPG, spaul, untouchalbeFlow, and others what is your opinion on this?
I don't believe any of you have chimed in on this in an honest way as of yet.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:18 am

rainier wrote:STA is really showing everyone what Class A hockey is all about. It's crazy what they have done with such a small enrollment. I don't know what their formula is, but these outstate teams have no excuse, they just don't have the "magic" that STA has. If only EGF had desire, decent coaching, or even a hint of community support. Thank you STA for showing the rest of Class A what they need to work on.

Quite a Cinderella story. A tiny private school, with extremely humble alumni, has taken the scant talent that Class A teams have available to them and found a way to transform themselves into Shattuck-beaters and 23-0 first two rounds-dominators. Even after 4 titles in 7 years, no one believed in them, and now they get the last laugh.

They are the best Class A team ever. Sure, they will officially be in AA next year, but they will always be A in my heart. When they beat a Shattuck or Hill-Murray again, I won't see a school that gets talent from a metro area of 3 million people (plus Wisconsin), I will see a plucky group of overachievers that found a way patch together just enough skill to beat the #4 ranked team 11-0. They don't even have a youth program, for God's sake, yet they still get it done. Amazing.

Forgive me if I shed a tear when STA raises their 5th trophy in 8 years today, because I know I won't see such perfection again until the day I meet the creator at the pearly gates. So much heart, so much grit, so much success squeezed out of a rag-tag jumble of rink rat neighborhood kids just trying their best to keep these games within 10 goals. It really is life-affirming.

Good-bye, my sweet Cadets. I know you must leave, but it doesn't make it any easier. If some day another private school hires even better coaches and builds an even nicer rink and offers even more in scholarship money which leads to kids fleeing STA for this newer hockey factory, don't worry, we in Class A will welcome you back with open arms. What you've done on the ice these last 8 years is exactly what the MSHSL had in mind when they made Class A, so you'll always be like family.

Godspeed, you classy underdogs, godspeed.

HSHW is very puzzled right now..

UntouchableFlow · Post by **UntouchableFlow** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:31 am

thorhockey wrote:
an all private school section would be great.
You would think all privates would want this. Think of the quality of hockey here to quench your thirst for seeing so much talent vying for that one spot at state
HSHW, PPG, spaul, untouchalbeFlow, and others what is your opinion on this?
I don't believe any of you have chimed in on this in an honest way as of yet.

What is fair about putting all of the private schools together? Do they deserve any less of an opportunity because they go to a private school and pay for tuition? If you put all private schools in one section, what does that relay about the fairness of the sport? Keep in mind that only one private school was in the AA tournament. I have no problem saying that every private school should have to play AA. However, to say that they should play in one section and that only one team gets to go is robbing those kids the same opportunity that a lot of people complain about public school kids missing out on. Keep in mind that they are all kids, and why shouldn't they all deserve the same chance to make it to state? It pains me to see that so many people on this forum would rather see a school like Lakeville North in the tournament than Hill-Murray, simply based off of their view on community-based hockey programs and hatred towards private schools.

Of course this most likely won't ever happen, but why not seed the state to create the "fairest" section brackets? If we go strictly by a definition of "fairness" is it fair that Lakeville North gets to play in the state tournament while Benilde, Minnetonka, Eden Prairie, and other schools have to watch? Because that's what it would come down to if all private schools were put into the same section; you would have 2 or 3 of the top teams in the state sitting in the stands during the tournament instead of putting on a show on the ice.

What people tend to undervalue is that there is so much family history at a lot of these private schools. For a lot of the kids, it isn't a decision based just off of playing hockey, it's a tradition. I don't see playing for a youth association as a binding contract that you'll play for their High School program.

WayOutWest · Post by **WayOutWest** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:50 am

UntouchableFlow wrote: For a lot of the kids, it isn't a decision based just off of playing hockey, it's a tradition.

Sure, a tradition of competitive advantages.

I don't blame kids for wanting to go to a school that pulls in hockey talent. Their chance at success is greater, as are their developmental opportunities.

However, the MSHSL should be very interested in creating a level playing field. They've already gone down that road with the Class system. That's simply not sufficient, when you are talking about more than just enrollment numbers.

OGEE OGELTHORPE · Post by **OGEE OGELTHORPE** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 am

Every team needs a salary cap.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 am

What are the odds this thing hits 30+ pages if STA wins today?

PuckU126 · Post by **PuckU126** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:01 pm

thestickler07 wrote:What are the odds this thing hits 30+ pages if STA wins today?

If they win by 10+ goals again, the odds are great.

Post by **east hockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:05 pm

PuckU126 wrote:
thestickler07 wrote:What are the odds this thing hits 30+ pages if STA wins today?
If they win by 10+ goals again, the odds are great.

It depends. If the discussion stays on topic and doesn't revert to personal insults (and there have been plenty on both sides), it could. If not, it won't.

It has almost been closed more than once.

Lee

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:07 pm

And Hermantown is a suburb of Duluth guys, let's call a spade a spade.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:08 pm

east hockey wrote:It depends. If the discussion stays on topic and doesn't revert to personal insults (and there have been plenty on both sides), it could. If not, it won't.

It has almost been closed more than once.

Lee

It was a good idea to make one of these though, easier to keep all the s*** in one toilet as opposed to smearing it all over every other thread.

PuckU126 · Post by **PuckU126** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:11 pm

thestickler07 wrote:It was a good idea to make one of these though, easier to keep all the s*** in one toilet as opposed to smearing it all over every other thread.

That has been the idea for this thread.

It's actually worked somewhat.

Post by **east hockey** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:12 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
east hockey wrote:It depends. If the discussion stays on topic and doesn't revert to personal insults (and there have been plenty on both sides), it could. If not, it won't.

It has almost been closed more than once.

Lee
It was a good idea to make one of these though, easier to keep all the s*** in one toilet as opposed to smearing it all over every other thread.

Anyone who thought that closing this would be an invitation to carry the "battle" to other topics would be in for a rude awakening. Just sayin'.

Lee