Private School Trash talk thread

stpaul · Post by **stpaul** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:46 pm

Hard water fan wrote:No end to the discussion until the MSHSL realizes that it will be to their advantage to create a separate prep school league.

Then there will be no end to the discussion. John Millea of the MSHSL has reported that there is nothing happening to change the current system. You do realize that there were 19,000 people at the Xcel Friday and 17,000+ last night with big statewide TV audiences for this Tournament that you believe needs to be fixed.

Lazy Scout · Post by **Lazy Scout** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:49 pm

So Hermantown has been in the state championship 4 years in a row, why isn't it time for them to move to AA? Some of the other smaller A schools could complain just as easily about Hermantown as STA. You can't tell me that they don't get players from Duluth East or Denfeld into their program. Hermantown had every chance to win this game leading 4-2. So Hermantown blew a lead it is STA's fault? There is no loyalty in high school hockey anymore. Those days are long gone, public or private. There are many kids playing for public high schools now that did NOT grow up playing in their public schools youth association. Strong high school hockey programs attract talented players regardless of public or private, class A or AA. You can't argue that point.

Northhcky · Post by **Northhcky** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:51 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
rainier wrote:Because it has a metro population of 150,000, an AA school, one of the largest A schools, and a private school.
Well census date puts the Duluth MSA at closer to 280,000 but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good narrative right?

By the way, can we stop the charade of calling Hermantown a "small town"? Its a wealthy suburb of Duluth. Median family incomes are $10,000 higher in Hermantown than in Duluth proper. I wouldn't call Orono a "small town" even though its population is lower than Hermantown's.

Not sure where you are getting 280,000 for Duluth but to my understanding the city has a little less than 90,000, not sure if the close rural areas are counted in that but there certainly isn't almost another 200,000 out there.
As for Hermantown you are completely wrong. Hermantown is it's own city with a population of about 8,500, not a suburb of Duluth and if you ever drive around the city you would find that yes there are some very nice newer homes there in the new developments but for the most part it is still a middle class area.

Backhand Shelf · Post by **Backhand Shelf** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:55 pm

Bottom line is no matter what side you're on, the private school takeover is the beginning of the end for HS hockey as we know it. It's a matter of time before the public school families have had enough and decide its better for the kids to form their own all-star teams called AAA or Midget Major like they play in other states.

If you don't know, AAA can cost anywhere from $0 to $10,000 per year, depending on how good the teams sponsor is, and they play anywhere from 50-70 games with a few invitational tournaments in Canada, MI, or on the east coast.

It will start with 1 or 2 teams, and then as more are added the costs will come down because the MN based teams will be able to schedule each other 3-4 times per year, basically a full season elite league.

Why pay $18,000 a year to join the private schools and play 31 games max., when half of them usually aren't competitive, when you can pay $0-10k to play double the games against better competition? HS hockey will still be around, and a few good players might even stick with it if they play other sports or just don't want to commit September-April to hockey, but it will basically be what Jr Gold is now. I've been going to the tourney since I was a kid, but this is the sad truth.

Rip the idea if you want but get back to me in 15 years or so.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 pm

Northhcky wrote:Not sure where you are getting 280,000 for Duluth but to my understanding the city has a little less than 90,000, not sure if the close rural areas are counted in that but there certainly isn't almost another 200,000 out there.

http://www.northlandconnection.com/msa/

Duluth MSA, not Duluth proper. Same concept applied to the Twin Cities metro which stretches from St. Croix County WI to St. Cloud technically.

Northhcky wrote:As for Hermantown you are completely wrong. Hermantown is it's own city with a population of about 8,500, not a suburb of Duluth and if you ever drive around the city you would find that yes there are some very nice newer homes there in the new developments but for the most part it is still a middle class area.

So is Mendota Heights a "small town" then? Because the STAA campus is further from the X than Hermantown is from Duluth. Hermantown is the definition of a suburb, its not out in the middle of nowhere.

Northhcky · Post by **Northhcky** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:09 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
Northhcky wrote:Not sure where you are getting 280,000 for Duluth but to my understanding the city has a little less than 90,000, not sure if the close rural areas are counted in that but there certainly isn't almost another 200,000 out there.
http://www.northlandconnection.com/msa/

Duluth MSA, not Duluth proper. Same concept applied to the Twin Cities metro which stretches from St. Croix County WI to St. Cloud technically.

Northhcky wrote:As for Hermantown you are completely wrong. Hermantown is it's own city with a population of about 8,500, not a suburb of Duluth and if you ever drive around the city you would find that yes there are some very nice newer homes there in the new developments but for the most part it is still a middle class area.
So is Mendota Heights a "small town" then? Because the STAA campus is further from the X than Hermantown is from Duluth. Hermantown is the definition of a suburb, its not out in the middle of nowhere.

No mendota Heights is a suburb not a city of itself. Hermantown is it's own city! It has and has always had it's own schools, fire dept, police dept, public works, etc that just happens to be next to Duluth. St Pauls border meets the Mpls border does that make them the same town? Look it up it is the City of HERMANTOWN! geesh

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:20 pm

Northhcky wrote:No mendota Heights is a suburb not a city of itself. Hermantown is it's own city! It has and has always had it's own schools, fire dept, police dept, public works, etc that just happens to be next to Duluth. St Pauls border meets the Mpls border does that make them the same town? geesh

http://www.mendota-heights.com
http://sibley.isd197.org/se3bin/clients ... =school156

Mendota Heights has its own firetrucks too...

Hermantown is a suburb. You don't have to go more than 2 words past the start of the 3rd sentence in their wikipedia article to see that. Geesh...

Some people just see what they want to see. As romantic as the "small town" Hawks story is, that isn't the reality. They are a suburb of a media market that is ~200 largest in the nation.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:28 pm

What the heck are you two even arguing? LOL!!

Lazy Scout · Post by **Lazy Scout** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:30 pm

According to Wikipedia, Hermantown is a suburb of Duluth. The last I checked, Mendota Heights has its own mayor, police and fire department, public works and schools.

Northhcky · Post by **Northhcky** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
Northhcky wrote:No mendota Heights is a suburb not a city of itself. Hermantown is it's own city! It has and has always had it's own schools, fire dept, police dept, public works, etc that just happens to be next to Duluth. St Pauls border meets the Mpls border does that make them the same town? geesh
http://www.mendota-heights.com
http://sibley.isd197.org/se3bin/clients ... =school156

Mendota Heights has its own firetrucks too...

Hermantown is a suburb. You don't have to go more than 2 words past the start of the 3rd sentence in their wikipedia article to see that. Geesh...

Some people just see what they want to see. As romantic as the "small town" Hawks story is, that isn't the reality. They are a suburb of a media market that is ~200 largest in the nation.

Well is see there is just no sense in trying to explain to you because you obviously don't live in the area and you are completely clueless. Firetrucks lol. How about the City Council and it's own Mayor etc? Look it up, its the CITY OF HERMANTOWN Is it the City of Mendota Heights? I think not.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:35 pm

Northhcky wrote:Well is see there is just no sense in trying to explain to you because you obviously don't live in the area and you are completely clueless. Firetrucks lol. How about the City Council and it's own Mayor etc? Look it up, its the CITY OF HERMANTOWN Is it the City of Mendota Heights? I think not.

Hahahahahaha this was funny. Mendota Heights has a city council/mayor just like Hermantown. Mendota Heights and Hermantown are both suburbs, the fact that no one else wants to go to bat for you on this should be telling.

Northhcky · Post by **Northhcky** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Lazy Scout wrote:According to Wikipedia, Hermantown is a suburb of Duluth. The last I checked, Mendota Heights has its own mayor, police and fire department, public works and schools.

Well then according to Wikipedia St Paul must be a suburb of MPLS then also. I stand corrected lol.

But i think that the peaple who actually live here and pay property taxes to two different citys and pay two different school taxes would differ with you.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Northhcky wrote:Well then according to Wikipedia St Paul must be a suburb of MPLS then also. I stand corrected lol.

Come on, you aren't that dumb/bad of a troll.

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Northhcky wrote:
thestickler07 wrote:
Northhcky wrote:No mendota Heights is a suburb not a city of itself. Hermantown is it's own city! It has and has always had it's own schools, fire dept, police dept, public works, etc that just happens to be next to Duluth. St Pauls border meets the Mpls border does that make them the same town? geesh
http://www.mendota-heights.com
http://sibley.isd197.org/se3bin/clients ... =school156

Mendota Heights has its own firetrucks too...

Hermantown is a suburb. You don't have to go more than 2 words past the start of the 3rd sentence in their wikipedia article to see that. Geesh...

Some people just see what they want to see. As romantic as the "small town" Hawks story is, that isn't the reality. They are a suburb of a media market that is ~200 largest in the nation.
Well is see there is just no sense in trying to explain to you because you obviously don't live in the area and you are completely clueless. Firetrucks lol. How about the City Council and it's own Mayor etc? Look it up, its the CITY OF HERMANTOWN Is it the City of Mendota Heights? I think not.

Yes, yes it is. Next you are going to try and tell me Edina is not a suburb. It is also a City with its own mayor, city council, fire and police, etc. It's still a suburb, just like Hermantown is. Merriam Webster says a suburb is "a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city ." Like say, Hermantown, Mendota Heights or Edina.

Northhcky · Post by **Northhcky** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:45 pm

C-dad wrote:
Northhcky wrote:
thestickler07 wrote: http://www.mendota-heights.com
http://sibley.isd197.org/se3bin/clients ... =school156

Mendota Heights has its own firetrucks too...

Hermantown is a suburb. You don't have to go more than 2 words past the start of the 3rd sentence in their wikipedia article to see that. Geesh...

Some people just see what they want to see. As romantic as the "small town" Hawks story is, that isn't the reality. They are a suburb of a media market that is ~200 largest in the nation.
Well is see there is just no sense in trying to explain to you because you obviously don't live in the area and you are completely clueless. Firetrucks lol. How about the City Council and it's own Mayor etc? Look it up, its the CITY OF HERMANTOWN Is it the City of Mendota Heights? I think not.
Yes, yes it is. Next you are going to try and tell me Edina is not a suburb. It is also a City with its own mayor, city council, fire and police, etc. It's still a suburb, just like Hermantown is. Merriam Webster says a suburb is "a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city ." Like say, Hermantown, Mendota Heights or Edina.

But Hermantown is not a smaller community adjacent to and city. It is The City of Hermantown that is adjacent to the City of Duluth. Then according to you St Paul would be a suburb of Mpls because it as smaller than Mpls. I would say that when you are paying city taxes to the City of Hermantown and there is a different rate of sales tax between the two citys and they are always fighting trying to get businesses to locate in their "city" they are different citys. Look it up it is the City of Hermantown. I'm done argueing with ppl that don't live in the area and have no clue what they are even talking about. Proctor is its own city too and the share common borders with Duluth and Hermantown so are they a suburb of Hermantown or Duluth?

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Northhcky wrote:But Hermantown is not a smaller community adjacent to and city. It is The City of Hermantown that is adjacent to the City of Duluth. Then according to you St Paul would be a suburb of Mpls because it as smaller than Mpls. I would say that when you are paying city taxes to the City of Hermantown and there is a different rate of sales tax between the two citys and they are always fighting trying to get businesses to locate in their "city" they are different citys. Look it up it is the City of Hermantown. I'm done argueing with ppl that don't live in the area and have no clue what they are even talking about. Proctor is its own city too and the share common borders with Duluth and Hermantown so are they a suburb of Hermantown or Duluth?

I really hope you weren't educated in Hermantown schools, it would be a damning indictment of the entire system.

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:01 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
rainier wrote:Because it has a metro population of 150,000, an AA school, one of the largest A schools, and a private school.
Well census date puts the Duluth MSA at closer to 280,000 but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good narrative right? Once again you are making my point for me, Perry Mason. You asked, "How can you call Duluth an AA population?" I put the 150,000 number to show it is an AA population, and now you "zing" me with the 280,000 figure. You're not very good at this, are you? Do you even know what side of the argument you are on?

By the way, can we stop the charade of calling Hermantown a "small town"? Its a wealthy suburb of Duluth. Median family incomes are $10,000 higher in Hermantown than in Duluth proper. I wouldn't call Orono a "small town" even though its population is lower than Hermantown's. Hermantown has 9,000 people and the school does not take open enrollment students, you must live in Hermantown to go to school there. And if they were pulling so much talent from the surrounding area, you would expect to see drop offs in the surrounding programs. Instead, what we've seen is East maintaining a top 3 AA program, Marshall emerging as a top 5 A power, and Denfeld just had it's best season in 24 years. You could not be more wrong on this one.

rainier wrote:No, I'm not obsessed with the program, I'm obsessed with shining a light on people like you, the tiny fraction of STA alumni dimwitted enough to defend their long stay in A publicly. The 45 TV guys are paid to complement STA while keeping a straight face, but everyone else knows what a sham it has been. Lou Nanne, who has the freedom to say what he wants, made no bones about this last year. I always figured students from such an expensive private school must be smart, and the fact that so few of them defend STA shows I'm right, but, as always, there are a few vocal, angry exceptions.
You are obsessed, period. Reread what you just wrote and tell me its anything different than what you've been saying the last 20+ pages of this thread. You have been repeating the same thing over and over, its pathetic.

If by pathetic you mean "The obvious truth everyone sees except the two or three STA bobos on this forum", then , yes, it is pathetic. You seem to be just as obsessed with defending them, so go ahead and make yourself look worse by calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot. You sure are angry for someone who just watched his team "earn" a 5th title in 8 years.

And come on, its STAA, get it right. Okay STAA, a team with 0 big school titles.

Lazy Scout · Post by **Lazy Scout** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:03 pm

This is a lost cause, I'm afraid you sound as dumb as Coach Plante.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:14 pm

rainier wrote:Once again you are making my point for me, Perry Mason. You asked, "How can you call Duluth an AA population?" I put the 150,000 number to show it is an AA population

We agree. Duluth has an AA sized population, and the MSA is bigger than you thought it was. Hermantown is a suburb of a AA sized metro area, not a small town.

rainier wrote:Hermantown has 9,000 people and the school does not take open enrollment students, you must live in Hermantown to go to school there.

Hermantown at this point is probably closer to 10,000 people than 9,000, considering they had ~26% population growth in the 2000-10 decade. But let's not quibble on the exact numbers.

Hermantown does take open enrollment students, there is no debate out there about it. You are wrong.

And stop conveniently avoiding the issue of whether Hermantown is a wealthy suburb or not.
They are.
Just say those words and accept it.
Its reality.
You are delusional to think Hermantown is a "small town" just because it has the word 'town' in the name.

rainier wrote:If by pathetic you mean "The obvious truth everyone sees except the two or three STA bobos on this forum", then , yes, it is pathetic. You seem to be just as obsessed with defending them, so go ahead and make yourself look worse by calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot. You sure are angry for someone who just watched his team "earn" a 5th title in 8 years.

Railing against a school that you have no connection to is pathetic. Giving chumps and trolls little nuggets of knowledge to chew over is entertaining.

STAA should opt up in everything, I've said it before.

rainier wrote:Okay STAA, a team with 0 big school titles.

That a boy, you're understanding the whole appeal of the STAA name now!

And they have 0 big school titles... for now.

WayOutWest · Post by **WayOutWest** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:22 pm

stpaul wrote:
Hard water fan wrote:You do realize that there were 19,000 people at the Xcel Friday and 17,000+ last night with big statewide TV audiences for this Tournament that you believe needs to be fixed.
Great numbers, as always. But, that doesn't mean it's the best one can do. I'm guessing the greater percentage of those folks would have loved to have seen a somewhat competitive quarterfinal or semifinal, instead of the downright boring blowouts STA provided. This will, of course, be fixed next season.
One thing that hasn't seemed to have been talked about is whether anyone thinks the MSHSL had any influence on STA's decision to opt up, next year. They do have a vested interest in providing a level playing field. Private school advantages make such matters a bit dicey.

Hard water fan · Post by **Hard water fan** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:04 pm

WayOutWest wrote:
stpaul wrote:
Hard water fan wrote:You do realize that there were 19,000 people at the Xcel Friday and 17,000+ last night with big statewide TV audiences for this Tournament that you believe needs to be fixed.
Not that it matters so much, but the wrong quote above attributed to me. You can credit that to st.paul. I agree with your post though.

Regarding the whole suburb vs. city pissin match- Just my two cents- they aren't mutually exclusive. I even consider the City of Superior as a suburb of Duluth now, especially when considering population reach, etc. Hermantown is a city. It's also a suburb...

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:05 pm

thestickler07 wrote:
rainier wrote:Once again you are making my point for me, Perry Mason. You asked, "How can you call Duluth an AA population?" I put the 150,000 number to show it is an AA population
We agree. Duluth has an AA sized population, and the MSA is bigger than you thought it was. Hermantown is a suburb of a AA sized metro area, not a small town.

rainier wrote:Hermantown has 9,000 people and the school does not take open enrollment students, you must live in Hermantown to go to school there.
Hermantown at this point is probably closer to 10,000 people than 9,000, considering they had ~26% population growth in the 2000-10 decade. But let's not quibble on the exact numbers.

Hermantown does take open enrollment students, there is no debate out there about it. You are wrong.

And stop conveniently avoiding the issue of whether Hermantown is a wealthy suburb or not.
They are.
Just say those words and accept it.
Its reality.
You are delusional to think Hermantown is a "small town" just because it has the word 'town' in the name.

rainier wrote:If by pathetic you mean "The obvious truth everyone sees except the two or three STA bobos on this forum", then , yes, it is pathetic. You seem to be just as obsessed with defending them, so go ahead and make yourself look worse by calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot. You sure are angry for someone who just watched his team "earn" a 5th title in 8 years.
Railing against a school that you have no connection to is pathetic. Giving chumps and trolls little nuggets of knowledge to chew over is entertaining.

STAA should opt up in everything, I've said it before.

rainier wrote:Okay STAA, a team with 0 big school titles.
That a boy, you're understanding the whole appeal of the STAA name now!

And they have 0 big school titles... for now.

Well, looky here, I guess Chip Scoggins must be a "whiner" too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/196713271.html

Here's my favorite snippet:

"St. Thomas Academy has long served as a villain in that conversation because of the school’s insistence on remaining at the 1A level. The school had that prerogative based on enrollment figures, but the Cadets also enjoyed the best of both worlds: They could recruit top players and play 2A teams during the regular season and then collect trophies against weaker competition in the tournament. They outscored their opponents 28-4 in this tournament.

School officials finally made the right call in December by announcing a move next season to Class 2A, which is where they belong based on their stature and built-in advantages. They should test themselves against the big boys. Plus, this move gives their players a chance to receive proper credit for success without having to apologize for it. State championships should be celebrated, not mocked."

Yeah, I must be delusional, Stickles.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:25 pm

rainier wrote:Well, looky here, I guess Chip Scoggins must be a "whiner" too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/196713271.html

Here's my favorite snippet:

"St. Thomas Academy has long served as a villain in that conversation because of the school’s insistence on remaining at the 1A level. The school had that prerogative based on enrollment figures, but the Cadets also enjoyed the best of both worlds: They could recruit top players and play 2A teams during the regular season and then collect trophies against weaker competition in the tournament. They outscored their opponents 28-4 in this tournament.

School officials finally made the right call in December by announcing a move next season to Class 2A, which is where they belong based on their stature and built-in advantages. They should test themselves against the big boys. Plus, this move gives their players a chance to receive proper credit for success without having to apologize for it. State championships should be celebrated, not mocked."

Yeah, I must be delusional, Stickles.

Yea that's how newspapers work. Controversy=money.

There are enough rubes out there that eat up the whole schtick.

Why do you think people fawn over Plante so much? His "golly gee awww shucks we just try so damn hard" spiel gets gobbled up by you guys hahaha. You think he doesn't know that? You think he doesn't love getting on his soapbox knowing the choir and congregation is just going him a big "Amen" (or whatever you pagans say

) He plays you chumps like Yo-Yo Ma and you don't realize it.

So funny rainier, keep it up.

Edit: Tell me what you think about Powers' article. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat for your literary analysis.

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:31 pm

And by your lack of response to the more salient points of Hermantown's situation I take it they are your favorite wealthy suburb team?

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:54 pm

Answer these...

Is Moorhead a suburb of Fargo?
Is sauk rapids a suburb of St. Cloud?
Is coleraine a suburb of Grand Rapids?
Is proctor a suburb of Duluth?
Is east grand forks a suburb of grand forks?
Byron a suburb of Rochester?

Answer those...Hermantown is its own town. They draw from the town that we know as Hermantown. It's a small community that sure has money, but that means nothing.

If anyone really is arguing for st Thomas academy then, well I think you are in the minority of this state. Here is my question...in recent years has there ever been a team so disliked as st Thomas currently is?