Girls AAA

[HuskiesHockey]

i get it and you're right, your 03's did well against their 01's you just didn't know they were 01's at the time.

I'm glad THOEN replied to this because here is a good example of the "way things are supposed to be". i have coached against him many times and i would say we are both very competitive guys. We try as hard as we can to win the game but we do it with a respect for the game. We have both won games against eachother at different times but when it's over you feel like you played a hard fought game against a team that battled you the whole way. i remember one time in a 3 on 3 game, we were standing not too far from each other and his team got credited for a goal that didn't go in the net. he looked at me and said "that didn't go in, I'll tell the ref" i told him not to worry about it and the game went on but the point is, that in the middle of a super competitive game the guy was willing to give a goal back because he knew it was the right thing to do. It's called sportsmanship and class. the Chill have neither of these, not even in small amounts. They deserve no respect from any of us.

[ogelthorpesson]

As a coach of an honest and successful u10 AAA team, I have great respect and appreciation for huskieshockey and thoens as coaches and examples of true sportsmanship and class.
I enjoy competing against both coaches and programs and know that you will always get a great and fair game from both guys and their respective teams.

Our team did compete against the chill in a tourney. We had heard that they did have players roistered that were over aged. This was confirmed as one of their players parents mentioned this to me as we were having a nice chat. To his defense, I don't think he realized that a few of the players he had mentioned were 01's, were indeed too old for the Uten division. An oversight perhaps. Of course the coaches and program director DO know the rules and by looking at their website, they have three Uten teams. Do the other girls get to play?

90% of our roster is first year utens who played "B" level hockey last year. The remaining 4 players on our roster are first year utens who played "A" level hockey last year. Guess what, we compete and do it very well. 3 of these girls just started playing hockey last June.

As someone else had mentioned on here, why should a jan 02 kid be able to play and an dec 01 kid not. Nicely put, you could draw the line at any birth month and the next guy will bring up the same question. A rule is a rule and aaa uses the birth year as does all of Canadian hockey, USA hockey and everyone else, including European nations.......all except mn hockey.

I as well as the other honest coaches out there would like to see the cheating stopped by this program. I honestly do not know or can imagine any other program having "a set" big enough to to risk the reputation of their programs reputation being tarnished by doing what the chill has done.

I really feel for the innocent parents and players from their team that are not aware of this.

[Lace'emUp]

As a coach of an honest and successful u10 AAA team, I have great respect and appreciation for huskieshockey and thoens as coaches and examples of true sportsmanship and class.
I enjoy competing against both coaches and programs and know that you will always get a great and fair game from both guys and their respective teams.

Our team did compete against the chill in a tourney. We had heard that they did have players roistered that were over aged. This was confirmed as one of their players parents mentioned this to me as we were having a nice chat. To his defense, I don't think he realized that a few of the players he had mentioned were 01's, were indeed too old for the Uten division. An oversight perhaps. Of course the coaches and program director DO know the rules and by looking at their website, they have three Uten teams. Do the other girls get to play?

90% of our roster is first year utens who played "B" level hockey last year. The remaining 4 players on our roster are first year utens who played "A" level hockey last year. Guess what, we compete and do it very well. 3 of these girls just started playing hockey last June.

As someone else had mentioned on here, why should a jan 02 kid be able to play and an dec 01 kid not. Nicely put, you could draw the line at any birth month and the next guy will bring up the same question. A rule is a rule and aaa uses the birth year as does all of Canadian hockey, USA hockey and everyone else, including European nations.......all except mn hockey.

I as well as the other honest coaches out there would like to see the cheating stopped by this program. I honestly do not know or can imagine any other program having "a set" big enough to to risk the reputation of their programs reputation being tarnished by doing what the chill has done.

I really feel for the innocent parents and players from their team that are not aware of this.

I think most everyone is echoing a similar opinion. The last thing I’d like to know is this: The listed Chill U12 Navy head coach appears to be a well-seasoned/respected HC at the girls/women’s level over the last several years. Has anyone reached out to her to discuss the issue at hand? With being a HC at the high school level too (search the hockey hub or MSHSL), I wouldn’t think she’d like to be associated with a program that openly cheats. Not something you would want on the résumé (or find on an internet hockey blog).

[HuskiesHockey]

i haven't reached out to her but I would be very interested to hear her side of things just as I would love to hear from anyone responsible for this. I think a lot of us would ask the same question; "what were you thinking?" I've said it earlier in the post, I don't think these are all necessarily bad people. I think there is some confusion combined with opportunism and some seriously bad judgment but I don't think every person involved made a decision to break the rules. I'm sure some were along for the ride. People ask very few questions when teams are considered successful, it's only when we lose that people pick apart every last detail. These guys have been winning and the world is right when you're winning.

An interesting point to any who still think that this isn't about winning for them. The ONLY full ice spring/summer tournament that doesn't follow the USA hockey birth year rules is the Stick it to Cancer tournament in the spring. This tournament is a fundraiser for breast cancer and the eligibility goes along with MN hockey's association eligibility instead of USA's birth years. Interesting that the one tournament their teams would have been eligible for is a tournament they chose not to play in. You have to ask yourself why? Maybe finishing in 5th or 6th place in a tournament you belong in isn't as fun as cheating to get first or second against the younger girls.

It looks they will stay silent on the issue which speaks volumes about their guilt in my opinion. I would just ask all of the coaches and tournament directors to hold them accountable going forward. We should all be better than this.

[hockeyFam5]

It looks they will stay silent on the issue which speaks volumes about their guilt in my opinion. I would just ask all of the coaches and tournament directors to hold them accountable going forward. We should all be better than this.

I believe the U10 Jr. Chill will be at the Easton Cup.

This is per the Easton Cup Webpage page:

http://www.showcasehockey.com/page/show ... easton-cup

Girl's Division Birth Years for the 2013 Easton Cup:

•U10 = 2003 and 2002 Birth Years
•U12 = 2001 and 1990 Birth Years <<<<<I'm guessing this is a typo s/b 2000
•U14 = 1999 and 1998 Birth Years
•U16 = 1997 and 1996 Birth Years
•U19 = 1995, 1994, 1993 Birth Years
..

Player Eligibility
•A maximum of 20 players may be rostered for any team.
•A team’s roster is frozen at the time the team starts their first game - no additions will be allowed.
•In no case will a player be allowed to play on more than one team during the same weekend - No exceptions.
•Any eligibility protest must occur before the start of the game and must come from the head coach to be valid.
•Invalid protests will result in a 5 minute bench major for the challenging team.
•Any ineligible player will be ejected for the remainder of the tournament.
•All teams that knowingly play an ineligible player will receive an automatic 5-0 forfeit for the protested game.

[InigoMontoya]

Huskies: there was a bit of sarcasm entwined with my post. Make no mistake, if what is being posted here is accurate, it's a few steps past pathetic on the program's part. What i was referring to was that if they had a handful of 01s on the ice when we played them in the AAA, i can feel even better about the effort my girls put in knowing that they were on the ice against much older kids and still did very well.

I think that's a healthy perspective.

[HuskiesHockey]

we'll see if Chilly Willy has guts. They'll need them. Whether they show up to the Easton Cup with an illegal team or show up with a legal team, they will either go home with forfeits as cheaters or get embarrassed and be found out to be a very mediocre program. It's a win/win for those of us who play by the rules and finally something fair for the Chill too. I'm betting they bail. they can't risk the world seeing what a joke they really are.

[Hockeyguy83]

hockeyFam5 - as a FYI, the Independent Classic tournament in May had the same eligibility rules posted on their web-site for their tournament. Yet the Chill still entered and took 1st Place for U10 and 2nd Place for U12 (the banners are hanging in the arena). Either the Tournament Director never checked the birth certificates, checked them and didn't care or the Chill turned in fake BC's. My suggestion would be to send this thread to the tournament director of the Easton Cup and let him/her know.

Ironically, the Chill does not have the Easton Cup tournament on the team calendars on their web-site, only the Caribou Cup.

Another suggestion to all on this thread, there is a thread on this site started by the Caribou Cup looking for teams - let them know about the Chill reputation (I already posted the link to this thread for them to see). If Tournament Directors stop allowing them in tournaments - their formula for success (i.e. profits) gets more and more challenging. How are they going to explain to parents that they cannot get into any tournaments (I guess they can just start their own)?

[HuskiesHockey]

I think most everyone is echoing a similar opinion. The last thing I’d like to know is this: The listed Chill U12 Navy head coach appears to be a well-seasoned/respected HC at the girls/women’s level over the last several years. Has anyone reached out to her to discuss the issue at hand? With being a HC at the high school level too (search the hockey hub or MSHSL), I wouldn’t think she’d like to be associated with a program that openly cheats. Not something you would want on the résumé (or find on an internet hockey blog).[/quote]

I e-mailed the U12 coach through their web site a week and half ago or so and never received a response. I'm sure this is part of their strategy, to stay silent. Any response from them would no doubt create even more discussion which they don't want. When you're this wrong silence is probably the best move. I was looking at some old threads and found some from 2011 where people were talking about the same issue with them. They've been doing this for a long time and they're good at it. The question is, have they ever played with a legal team - ever? that would be a heck of a run

[hockeyFam5]

Hockeyguy83 the Jr Chill U10 White is at the Easton Cup and the Jr Chill U10 Navy is at the Carabou Cup.

It all comes down to creditability. In my opinion they have none. If this was just a thread where a bunch of people where going off about them I would say it was questionable. BUT I had a parent of the Jr Chill PM me and told me it was going on and it was no big deal.

Since they think cheating is no big deal, I wouldn't be surprised if they had fake birth certificates.

I do feel a bit sorry for the girls in the association, its the parents and coaches that are allowing this to happen, not the kids themselves.

[observer]

Pretty simple.

The rules must be followed. Those not following the rules are the lowest form. A lot of summer hockey requires self regulating which this organization hasn't done yet. Embarrassing for the organization, players and parents. To say they're confused by the rules is stupid.

Shuffle the few players that aren't playing at the appropriate level, put together a roster book with birth certificates for each team member, and move on. Hopefully this organization receives additional scrutiny as they now deserve it.

If organizations aren’t building single birthyear teams girls teams must shuffle a few players every year. Becky and Susie may not be able to play hockey together for the rest of their lives. Fear not as it's a good thing.

[HuskiesHockey]

As a coach of an honest and successful u10 AAA team, I have great respect and appreciation for huskieshockey and thoens as coaches and examples of true sportsmanship and class.
I enjoy competing against both coaches and programs and know that you will always get a great and fair game from both guys and their respective teams.

Our team did compete against the chill in a tourney. We had heard that they did have players roistered that were over aged. This was confirmed as one of their players parents mentioned this to me as we were having a nice chat. To his defense, I don't think he realized that a few of the players he had mentioned were 01's, were indeed too old for the Uten division. An oversight perhaps. Of course the coaches and program director DO know the rules and by looking at their website, they have three Uten teams. Do the other girls get to play?

90% of our roster is first year utens who played "B" level hockey last year. The remaining 4 players on our roster are first year utens who played "A" level hockey last year. Guess what, we compete and do it very well. 3 of these girls just started playing hockey last June.

As someone else had mentioned on here, why should a jan 02 kid be able to play and an dec 01 kid not. Nicely put, you could draw the line at any birth month and the next guy will bring up the same question. A rule is a rule and aaa uses the birth year as does all of Canadian hockey, USA hockey and everyone else, including European nations.......all except mn hockey.

I as well as the other honest coaches out there would like to see the cheating stopped by this program. I honestly do not know or can imagine any other program having "a set" big enough to to risk the reputation of their programs reputation being tarnished by doing what the chill has done.

I really feel for the innocent parents and players from their team that are not aware of this.

I think most everyone is echoing a similar opinion. The last thing I’d like to know is this: The listed Chill U12 Navy head coach appears to be a well-seasoned/respected HC at the girls/women’s level over the last several years. Has anyone reached out to her to discuss the issue at hand? With being a HC at the high school level too (search the hockey hub or MSHSL), I wouldn’t think she’d like to be associated with a program that openly cheats. Not something you would want on the résumé (or find on an internet hockey blog).

Lace em up had a good point and was very right. It is my understanding that the U12 coach in question was never aware of any of this and has now resigned from her position as coach. She stated that she would not knowingly be associated with a program that cheats and had no idea they were using ineligible players.

Like I said when I first brought this up, I didn't think everyone involved was totally aware of what was going on. This coach seems like someone who has integrity and it is unfortunate for her that she was caught up in this. I give her credit for responding to me and I wish her the best going forward. I'm sure she doesn't appreciate the Chill leadership putting her in this position.

I am still confused by the parents I've heard from. They still seem to have the blinders on...

[coachdevelopment]

Bump!

[Hockeyguy83]

Congratulations! The ground swell of support vs. the Jr. Chill's practices has lead to their head coach quitting because she did not want to be a part of a cheating program. Kudos to her! You all can guess that the Jr. Chill tried to soil her good reputation - fortunately that is falling on some deaf ears as parents are starting to see through the organizers of the Chill and put the pieces together that they are liars and cheats.

We need MORE ACTION! Now the Jr. Chill has somehow gotten the Caribou Cup to change their eligibility requirements to allow teams like the Chill to enter their illegal teams. For example, they moved their eligilibility date for the U10 tournament to August 2001 (and U12 to August 1999) - thus allowing girls that one month later will be trying out for U12's to play in a U10 tournament. It is one thing if the tournament was in April (see Stick It To Cancer) but not in August.

I encourage you all to post your outrage at these changes to the following:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31033

Let the organizers of the Caribou Cup know that these changes put them in the same category (all about the money) as the Jr. Chill. With enough ground swell, maybe the Caribou Cup will see that their is only one team out their cheating and just not allow them in the tournament - rather than penalize all the teams that are doing it right!

[HuskiesHockey]

WOW! the circus sideshow that is the Jr Chill rolls on! Chill problem; 1. we don't have teams made up of legal players and now people are paying attention for this first time ever 2. We have lied to our members telling them that what we are doing is fine 3. We have remaining tournaments. Solution; Leverage the four teams we have entered into the Caribou Cup making it clear that we won't play (and pay) if they don't change the rules for us. The caribou Cup can't afford to lose this many teams this late in the game. We entered into the Caribou because they had a reputation for putting on a good tournament.

Apparently the Jr Chill coach who quit was the only person with any ethics in the program. Chill, listen to me; You will fail because you are on the wrong side of this - YOU ARE CHEATERS. There is no way MOST of these tournaments will risk losing reputable organizations just so they can hold onto to your cheating program.

[observer]

Agree. Caribou Cup made a big mistake on this one.

Summer girls hockey has always been you play the level you'll play in the fall. Period. Bad move and not fair to all the other teams entered that follow the age rules.

The amazing part for me is it's probably 3-4 players they need to move from each team. And, they have other teams to move them to. I can't imagine the entire team is overage. It would also make the teams ready for next summer and improve their image as a potential place to train and play summer 2014. Now? Stay away.

Now we have two organizations bending rules for their personal benefit.

Chill, move the players to the proper teams, put together roster books with birth certificates and move on.

Caribou Cup has damaged their reputation big time. It also reflects poorly on the entire sport of hockey. I've never heard of other youth sport tournament organizers allowing this. The Caribou Cup was the one that could have helped the Chill understand how easy it is to comply. If the rumor is true, fix it now for forever be known as a tourney to skip.

[Hockeyguy83]

We all need to applaud HuskiesHockey - the Caribou Cup CHANGED their eligibility TODAY!!!!

Here is what is posted on the web-site now:

After much debate, and confusion, the girl's age eligibility rules for the Caribou Cup have been adjusted to Birth Year dates. The tournament rules that are posted on the Home Page have been adjusted accordingly.

After discussions with other Summer AAA Girls programs we believe this to be the birth year expectations for the 2013 Summer AAA Season.

Our apologizes for any confusion.

U19: 1993, 94, 95 or younger
U16: 1996, 1997 or younger
U14: 1998, 1999 or younger
U12: 2000, 2001 or younger
U10: 2002, 2003 or younger
U8: 2004 or younger

So that begs the question - will the Chill be participating in the tournament and at what level? The pressure has to be building on the organization with their coach quitting (Kudos to her - of course after she resigned - the Jr. Chill organizers have, and are, trying to trash her reputation) and now this!

The word is getting out - they have to be feeling the heat. Maybe they will post a response on this thread? Would they have the guts?

[HuskiesHockey]

The chill recently sent an e-mail out to their parents trying justify their position (cheating). They're saying that its not about winning, they're not a tournament based organization, etc. What a huge steaming pile of BS! If it isn't about winning then why do it? You don't care about the wins but you only enter into tournaments where you know ages won't be verified so you will be able to play over age players and WIN! You are the only summer program to hang tournament banners in your rink. You don't care about winning and tournaments?? Any Chill parents who are still buying what the Chill is selling are crazy and they deserve the reputation that they will be labeled with.

People are saying that I have something personal against the Chill, trust me I don't. I have something against any organization who is openly cheating in youth sports period, it wouldn't matter who it was. What the chill parents don't know is that they have been considered a joke for years because everyone knew they were doing this. For whatever reason nobody was willing to call them out, probably because they didn't want the treatment the Chill U12 coach is getting now, more lies and rumors about her trying to discredit her so they could hold onto their pathetic cheating program. I haven't met or talked to one person in the girls AAA community that isn't disgusted by what the Chill has been getting away with for years. If its not about the winning then why wouldn't you just move the few girls on each team who are over age to the next level? you won't do it BECAUSE YOU NEED TO WIN. Why else? Name one good reason? In your parent e-mail you talk about how hard you've worked; if that's true then why cheapen it by cheating? Everyone agrees that you have plenty of girls in your program, numbers are not the problem, the leadership is the problem. The rest of us are working hard too, we're just playing by the rules at the same time, no shortcuts. I know its tough but you should give it a try.

For those parents who don't think the Chill were cheating; ask yourself why they would try to get the eligibility changed for a tournament? You shouldn't need to right? I mean you're playing by the rules aren't you?

[hockey7890]

There is now a 2nd team involved in cheating. The Mn edge u10 was just caught playing with unrostered kids and the coach got caught. They were forced to forfeit the game because they were playing with kids not on the roster. Why are coaches putting kids in this situation. Shame on them!

[Gotothenetman]

Correct Mn Edge did use one of their two practice players to fill a spot of a player who could not play the rest of the weekend However this was a honest mistake as they only rostered one of the two practice players and the one rostered could not play so they used the other who they thought was rostered. It sounds like a lot of sour grapes from some machine parents who could not believe a team of younger girls could tie the almighty older orange team. Honest mistake the Edge even offered to forfeit the rest of their games so the practice player could keep playing. Their more worried about a 10 year girl getting a chance to play then win a meaningless summer tournament. The player was not over age or even on another team she is a rostered player on the team listed on their Web site and everything. The team does not have extra jerseys so she wore the jersey of the player she replaced. Far cry from knowingly using girls that are to old or rostered on two teams

[Gotothenetman]

Also if you check with the tournament the Edge did not try to hide from the mistake they owned up and acknowledge the mistake That is what adults do.

[coachdevelopment]

I agree, I think it was an honest mistake. The player in question fit the age requirements but was not added to the roster.

[hockey7890]

I agree and dissagree. Yes its a shame that a ten year old can't skate and have fun but its not the kids fault. What the edge did was wrong. They knew there player was not rostered and tried to sneek a kid in without anyone knowing. All they had to do is explain the situation before the game not after they were caught. That is not being an adult it is trying to make excusses to save face The rumor also has it that the coach of the edge was so mad he was yelling and swearing at some parents in front of young players. Where is the leadership. Just stating my opinion.

[InigoMontoya]

Hmm. This topic certainly brings out a lot of first time posters.

[coachdevelopment]

Bottom line is she wasn't on the roster per the RULES so a forfeit was right,