Lechner to Greenway?

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:10 am

I've always wondered how some of the great high school coaches (Lechner, Randolph, Giles, Saterdalen, etc.) would do at a school like Greenway. Those coaches have great youth programs, quality kids, good financial resources and numbers. What do they have that they could bring to a Greenway? I do think those coaches are great, because there are many programs with similar resources that have not achieved what their programs have achieved.

BarTender3035 · Post by **BarTender3035** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:32 am

numbers and recruiting

Pioneerprideguy · Post by **Pioneerprideguy** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:26 am

Lex is a good coach who heads a great program....not the other way around. HM's program has been very good for decades and every coach at the school has had success. Whoever replaces him will also be successful. Lex was the head coach at Stillwater and never made it to State. He just became a better coach with better talent. Put him at Greenway and we would never hear about him.

Post by **karl(east)** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:23 pm

I think they could have some impact right away, and if they were to stick around for years, they might be able to generate a halfway decent youth pipeline. But unless Coleraine and Nashwauk and their neighbors start growing again, numbers are forever going to make it a tall order to compete with the likes of Hermantown and Duluth Marshall.

Those coaches all have different styles, and some of them might do better at Greenway than others. As PPG noted, Lechner's been a fine steward for the Hill program, but he's never had to build anything up from scratch. Same story with Giles at Edina. Saterdalen did build Jefferson up from nothing, though he did it on the wealthy side of a growing suburb. Randolph took a good-but-not-great program on the wealthy side of a city and got it to the next level, though he did so as the city was shrinking.

Aside from the east side of Duluth (which has its share of old money, and weathered the storm much better than the rest of the city), can anyone else think of any hockey programs that have improved as their cities stagnated, economically or demographically?

A lot of the coaches whose names we remember can appear to just have been in the right place at the right time. That said, though, they needed to seize that opportunity and run with it. Clearly, not every coach can do that. It also takes effort to take a good program and keep it at a high level; just look at what's happened to Holy Angels over the past 5 years. That might require a different skill set than building a program, though.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:24 pm

karl(east) wrote:...can anyone else think of any hockey programs that have improved as their cities stagnated, economically or demographically?

No, when it comes to public schools I can't think of any. IMO, when it comes to winning at the high school level, at least in modern times, the economics (parents with money) and demographics (a growing number of upwardly mobile young families producing increasing numbers of would-be young athletes) are needed to give the coach a fighting chance to establish a winning tradition. I can't think of any exceptions that have lasted more than a year or two when a bubble of talented players arose, but then quickly moved on.

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:13 am

Two maybes,
Elk River lost Rogers and Zimmerman kids and were still very competitive in their conference and section and possibly Burnsville.
Burnsville hasn't continued to grow but it's neighbors certainly have.
They have been very talented and successful recently.

Tenoverpar · Post by **Tenoverpar** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:27 am

I always thought Lechner was a great baseball coach who happens to be blessed with great hockey players and is a defensive genious who spends a season building a group into a championship contender year in and year out.....how would he do at greenway...as good as he would do at North St Paul

stpaul · Post by **stpaul** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:54 am

Interesting topic. I think guys like Mike Randolph, Bill Lechner and Curt Giles have far tougher jobs to maintain winning programs than coaches did in the past. Willard Ikola didn't have to manage parents who act like player agents, didn't have to deal with year round hockey and didn't have to worry about kids leaving for the USHL, the NTDP or Western Canada. Their success is because they are great hockey coaches who also have learned to navigate all the outside politics.

I do think these coaches would be successful elsewhere but it gets very complicated. Winning breeds winning. Duluth East, Edina and Hill-Murray are destinations for hockey families. Greenway and North St. Paul, for example, even with a top coach, probably would still not be. When schools drop off its pretty tough to get it back. It turns out that Holy Angels was a two-hit wonder (well 7-8 years anyway). There is no sign that they will come back. Ask Jerry Kill how tough it is to resurrect a program.

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:50 pm

Talking about Greenway and North St. Paul in the same category is not a fair comparison. I followed North St. Paul when I lived in the Cities. Recently, North St. Paul had some very good high school hockey players. Two years ago they should have made the sections finals. NSP is an example of a coach leading to the demise of a once good program. After this year, NSP will be very comparable to Greenway.

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:31 pm

What was the demo at Greenway when they had Gino Guyer in the early 2000's? Also, Zimmerman has no hockey, they are a coop with ER. Elk River and Rogers combined would have some solid teams. I'm sure Sarsland tried to sway a few players...

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:15 pm

Greenway's current enrollment is 239 students. My guess is it was probably 400+ in the Gino Guyer years. During their golden years (60's) their enrollment was 600+.

East Side Pioneer Guy · Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:06 pm

Just as important as the enrollment being 600 in the '60's, periods were only 12 minutes. Teams with only two good lines could go deep into the playoffs. The change to 15 minute periods was tough on teams like Greenway and
I-Falls. It became necessary for championship teams to have 3 good lines.

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:57 am

The 1967 Greenway team was the first team to rotate 3 lines for the entire game. It made a lot of press at that time. They always had 2 solid lines a spotted a third. The Metro teams were more dependent on one line then Greenway was. Its a fallacy to believe that Metro teams were deeper then the Range teams during those years. Even today, when it comes down to crunch time few Metro teams will consistently rotate three lines.

wannagototherink · Post by **wannagototherink** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:01 pm

stpaul wrote:Interesting topic. I think guys like Mike Randolph, Bill Lechner and Curt Giles have far tougher jobs to maintain winning programs than coaches did in the past. Willard Ikola didn't have to manage parents who act like player agents, didn't have to deal with year round hockey and didn't have to worry about kids leaving for the USHL, the NTDP or Western Canada. Their success is because they are great hockey coaches who also have learned to navigate all the outside politics.

I do think these coaches would be successful elsewhere but it gets very complicated. Winning breeds winning. Duluth East, Edina and Hill-Murray are destinations for hockey families. Greenway and North St. Paul, for example, even with a top coach, probably would still not be. When schools drop off its pretty tough to get it back. It turns out that Holy Angels was a two-hit wonder (well 7-8 years anyway). There is no sign that they will come back. Ask Jerry Kill how tough it is to resurrect a program.

Might see a comeback from Holy Angels in the next couple of years. Rumor has it the 00's Blades Team is looking at all attending Holy Angles. Pretty Sure Randolph, Giles, or even Williard Ikola has never had that advantage.