old goalie85 wrote:Forest Lake has STP [Summer Training Program] All summer. They skate w/the varsity coaching staff three days a week, lift and run 5 days a week. The varsity coach has played a very high level and can certainly hold his own vs 90 % of the U16 coaches out there. How much hockey can the kids take ?? [Hips/knees] If they wanted more ice, I know six or seven of the FL kids go to Mapp as well. I agree w/ Bo Mn kids can skate all they need.
Agreed. They can skate all they want here in MN.
Would you agree that the kids who are skating at the SR this week / weekend are getting better national exposure? They're being compared directly against a larger talent pool (rest of the country)? They have an opportunity to be seen more times over a longer season? There are likely a higher number of scouts drawn to showcase tournaments like the one at the SR than a typical highschool game held between two teams in MN on a Friday night?
Yes. I agree. I feel MSHL provides a cheaper route for certain familys. I'm glad we have that [MSHL] option. Don't misunderstand me, I think whatever is best for each kid works. One size does not fit all. I don't think MSHL will ever fall to the ranks of highschool hockey in Iowa/Illi/Mich .
old goalie85 wrote:Forest Lake has STP [Summer Training Program] All summer. They skate w/the varsity coaching staff three days a week, lift and run 5 days a week. The varsity coach has played a very high level and can certainly hold his own vs 90 % of the U16 coaches out there. How much hockey can the kids take ?? [Hips/knees] If they wanted more ice, I know six or seven of the FL kids go to Mapp as well. I agree w/ Bo Mn kids can skate all they need.
Agreed. They can skate all they want here in MN.
Would you agree that the kids who are skating at the SR this week / weekend are getting better national exposure? They're being compared directly against a larger talent pool (rest of the country)? They have an opportunity to be seen more times over a longer season? There are likely a higher number of scouts drawn to showcase tournaments like the one at the SR than a typical highschool game held between two teams in MN on a Friday night?
Don't forget that there was a U16 team that was selected from the D league to play in the Showcase, so they could have gotten to play anyway. Of course if they weren't coaches kids, or didn't play on Bellow's summer team, then they probably would have been on the outside looking in as the entire process has been commandeered by one parent.
The Exiled One wrote:Brumm, Heid, Mickelson, and Darion Hanson are all on the Omaha AAA U16 roster. Dylan Michaud is on the U18 roster. All are playing at the super rink in Blaine today.
These boys would have had plenty of Hockey with HP, Summer teams, Elite League and their high school teams. The skaters in this group probably actually decreased their development.
Maybe you just touched on the problem; "plenty of hockey" with four different teams and all of the political garbage that surly surrounds each one especially as a player gets older as opposed to one season with one team, one system and one decent coach.
H.S. Hockey in MN is an activity. Most of the coaches are not very good and the season is 90 days long. A team is lucky to play competitive games half of the time and coaches love to paly that magical 2 line system while leaving half the team on the bench. They can get away with playing this way because they play a measly two times a week and never back to back games - so play your best 10 and let the others sit. Are we developing players in MN with this system? No. When a phenom like Leddy comes around we jump up and take credit for teaching him how to skate.
MrBoDangles wrote:
These boys would have had plenty of Hockey with HP, Summer teams, Elite League and their high school teams. The skaters in this group probably actually decreased their development.
Maybe you just touched on the problem; "plenty of hockey" with four different teams and all of the political garbage that surly surrounds each one especially as a player gets older as opposed to one season with one team, one system and one decent coach.
H.S. Hockey in MN is an activity. Most of the coaches are not very good and the season is 90 days long. A team is lucky to play competitive games half of the time and coaches love to paly that magical 2 line system while leaving half the team on the bench. They can get away with playing this way because they play a measly two times a week and never back to back games - so play your best 10 and let the others sit. Are we developing players in MN with this system? No. When a phenom like Leddy comes around we jump up and take credit for teaching him how to skate.
Based on the limited season and games allowed by HS league, is this really a bad call? It is up to each family and player.....glad to see that people know what's best for others kids even on this side of the forum (seems it's the #1 topic on youth side)
Based on the limited season and games allowed by HS league, is this really a bad call? It is up to each family and player.....glad to see that people know what's best for others kids even on this side of the forum (seems it's the #1 topic on youth side)
What is best for Minnesota kids is probably the main topic on here.... The elite leagues are also at 14.
I agree that there are some terrible politics out there, but some of these kids had a much greener pasture than Omaha u16. My brother in law has two kids in the Omaha system and laughs about some of these MINNESOTA!!!! kids coming down there.
Maybe I'm wrong and they would have been stuck in a bad situation...... But move for Omaha u16 Hockey?
I got curious and decided to dig up some old numbers.
According to our lists on this forum, over the course of 3 seasons from 2007-2010, 10 players left MN for winter AAA hockey in another state. (I chose those years because they're the earliest ones we have data on; anyone more recent might still be playing.)
Of those ten:
-One was drafted, played a year in the USHL, and is now in the WHL, where he has been productive.
-Two played, or are playing, D-III hockey. One of them spent a year in the NAHL before going there. One of them has had minimal playing time; the other seemed to have decent ice time his freshman year.
-Two played in the NAHL, but did not go on to anything else.
-One played for two years in something called the Manitoba Junior Hockey League, and now appears to be out of hockey.
-Four have no record of playing any junior or college hockey.
It's a smallish sample, and it's hard to know where all these players were starting from, and what it might have been realistic to expect from them. Draw your own conclusions.
I can see your point on the guys from 2007-2010. But on more recent news from this past 2 seasons, they seemed to have been having quite a bit of success:
Omaha 16U D-Man Evers to Play for USNTDP
05/21/2013, 6:30am CDT
By OAHC
Evers Ann Arbor Bound
The Omaha AAA Hockey Club, proud members of the North American Prospects Hockey League (NAPHL), is pleased to announce that 16U defenseman Christian Evers has accepted an offer to play hockey next year at the USNTDP in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Evers, who is from Waukee, Iowa, had a tremendous season this year for the 16U team in Omaha. In 70 games played this year Evers amassed 27 goals and 44 assists for 71 points to go along with 48 penalty minutes.
This past October he also committed to play NCAA Division I Hockey at the University of North Dakota in the National Collegiate Hockey Conference (NCHC) starting in the fall of 2015 and received a full scholarship in the process.
Omaha 16U Players Have Big Presence in USHL Draft
05/16/2013, 7:30pm CDT
By NAPHL
Great Performances Yield Great Opportunities . . .
The Omaha AAA Hockey Club, proud members of the North American Prospects Hockey League (NAPHL) are pleased to announce that four of its current 16U players and three former players were selected in the USHL Phase 2 entry draft held last week.
Kyle Patava (Norwalk, Iowa) was selected in the 6th round and 79th overall by the Sioux City Musketeers. Patava had an outstanding season in Omaha scoring 20 goals and 27 assists for 47 points to go along with 82 PIM in 62 games played for the Omaha 16 team.
Nathan Churchill (Lafayette, California) was selected in the 11th round and 151st overall by the Indiana Ice. Churchill was Omaha's top goaltender all season appearing in 52 games and compiling a record of 36 wins and 12 losses to go along with a GAA average of 1.92, save percentage of .929 and 10 shutouts.
Lawton Courtnall (West Lake Village, California) was selected in the 11th round and 162nd overall by the Waterloo Blackhawks. Courtnall, in his first season with the Omaha AAA program had 32 goals and 46 assists for 78 points in 69 games played overall.
Sean Wendlandt (Hudson, Wisconsin) was selected in the 21st round and 314th overall by the Sioux Falls Stampede. Wendlandt appeared in 17 games and had a record of 10 wins and 6 losses to go along with a GAA of 2.54, a save percentage of .909 and 1 shutout.
In addition to Omaha AAA's 2012-13 players being drafted, the organization had three former players, one year removed from the NAPHL, also get selected high in the USHL draft.
Chris Wilkie (Omaha, Nebraska) was selected in the 1st round and 2nd overall by the Tri City Storm. Wilkie played the 2012-2013 season for the USNTDP U17 team of the USHL.
Jason Pawlowski (Omaha, Nebraska) was selected in the 1st round and 13th overall by the Indiana Ice. Pawlowski played the 2012-2013 season for the Austin Bruins of the NAHL.
Jalen Schulz (Cambridge, Minnesota) was selected in the 4th round 47th overall by the Tri City Storm. Schulz played the 2012-2013 season for the Corpus Christi Ice Rays of the NAHL.
Four Omaha 16U Players Selected in OHL Draft
04/10/2013, 7:00am CDT
By NAPHL
The Omaha AAA Hockey Club, proud members of the North American Prospects Hockey League, are pleased to announce and congratulate that four players from the OAHC 16U team that were selected in the Ontario Hockey League Priority Selection Draft held this past Saturday April 6th, 2013.
Tarek Baker (Verona, Wisconsin) 7th Round and 134th overall to the Saginaw Spirit. In 67 Games this year, Baker amassed 34 goals and 61 assists for 95 points. He was also recently selected to attend the USNTDP final evaluation camp in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Rhodes Dolan (Waterloo, Iowa) 10th Round and 194th overall to the Oshawa Generals. In 31 games this year, Dolan had 10 goals and 22 assists for 32 points after joining the team in December. At 6'6 and 195lbs he is force at both ends of the ice.
Patrick Grasso (Ankeny, Iowa) 11th Round and 214th overall to the Oshawa Generals. Grasso had a great season in Omaha accumulating 36 goals and 72 assists for 108 points in 71 games. In August, he accepted a full scholarship to the University of New Hampshire. Grasso has also appeared in 15 games with the Des Moines Buccaneers this season and has recorded 3 goals and 2 assists for 5 points.
******Obviously these are not ALL MN kids, except for Jalen Schultz, but the point is the Omaha U16's are churning out some good talent.
I don't think there's any doubt that a team like Omaha can attract and put out some great talent. The real question is, can it noticeably improve a Minnesota player's development opportunities?
It all depends on the situation, and it isn't too surprising that most of the players who have gone that route don't come from very successful MN programs.
I don't pretend to know the answer. Just throwing it out there.
That is a good question. I don't claim to know alot myself, I can just copy and paste well..!
But the good U16's and U18's teams (granted there are a ton of crappy ones out there) constantly developing and play a ton of games and they play together and learn good team hockey. The good teams have good coaches, trainers, nutritionist, play big tourneys and play anyone anywhere and they are road warriors. I really do think that helps pure hockey development and when your paying 5 to 15K a year, I think you take it more seriously - at least I hope they do.
I do love Minnesota Hockey and always will - but when the U16 Omaha, Nebraska team is churning this many NAHL Drafted, USHL drafted, NTDP and College D1 rides off of (1) U16 team (11 guys in 2 years)...and looks like it will only get better - Then we should be turning 10 times as many D1'oners and USHL guys in the great state of Minnesota. We should be turning out a 100 players a year..... Maybe we are, but last time checked it doesn't seem to be the case..
SuperStar wrote:That is a good question. I don't claim to know alot myself, I can just copy and paste well..!
But the good U16's and U18's teams (granted there are a ton of crappy ones out there) constantly developing and play a ton of games and they play together and learn good team hockey. The good teams have good coaches, trainers, nutritionist, play big tourneys and play anyone anywhere and they are road warriors. I really do think that helps pure hockey development and when your paying 5 to 15K a year, I think you take it more seriously - at least I hope they do.
I do love Minnesota Hockey and always will - but when the U16 Omaha, Nebraska team is churning this many NAHL Drafted, USHL drafted, NTDP and College D1 rides off of (1) U16 team (11 guys in 2 years)...and looks like it will only get better - Then we should be turning 10 times as many D1'oners and USHL guys in the great state of Minnesota. We should be turning out a 100 players a year..... Maybe we are, but last time checked it doesn't seem to be the case..
And Omaha will put their stamp on the Minnesota kids for only one year played.
Don't worry... There are plenty out there that don't get it.
Hockey is a year-round sport..pretty much everywhere BUT Minnesota.
The powers that be have handcuffed the players in the system for the good of the system. There's a reason players with last names like Nanne, Guentzel, Lucia did not play their Senior year in Minnesota high school hockey...
Tenoverpar wrote:Hockey is a year-round sport..pretty much everywhere BUT Minnesota.
The powers that be have handcuffed the players in the system for the good of the system. There's a reason players with last names like Nanne, Guentzel, Lucia did not play their Senior year in Minnesota high school hockey...
Based on the limited season and games allowed by HS league, is this really a bad call? It is up to each family and player.....glad to see that people know what's best for others kids even on this side of the forum (seems it's the #1 topic on youth side)
What is best for Minnesota kids is probably the main topic on here.... The elite leagues are also at 14.
I agree that there are some terrible politics out there, but some of these kids had a much greener pasture than Omaha u16. My brother in law has two kids in the Omaha system and laughs about some of these MINNESOTA!!!! kids coming down there.
Maybe I'm wrong and they would have been stuck in a bad situation...... But move for Omaha u16 Hockey?
Maybe you just touched on the problem; "plenty of hockey" with four different teams and all of the political garbage that surly surrounds each one especially as a player gets older as opposed to one season with one team, one system and one decent coach.
H.S. Hockey in MN is an activity. Most of the coaches are not very good and the season is 90 days long. A team is lucky to play competitive games half of the time and coaches love to paly that magical 2 line system while leaving half the team on the bench. They can get away with playing this way because they play a measly two times a week and never back to back games - so play your best 10 and let the others sit. Are we developing players in MN with this system? No. When a phenom like Leddy comes around we jump up and take credit for teaching him how to skate.
Looks like another goalie can be added to the list. One of BSM's goalies appears on the roster and has played several games for the Chicago Fury Midget Minor.
SWPrez wrote:Looks like another goalie can be added to the list. One of BSM's goalies appears on the roster and has played several games for the Chicago Fury Midget Minor.
Jr G Peter Thome BSM Chicago Fury - AAA
According to MN Hockey Hub, Thome did not play varsity last season, so he won't be added to the list.
SuperStar wrote:Drake Stimpson (SR) - Osseo - Now with the Tampa Bay Juniors Hockey Club
