Duluth East 2013-2014

[GPGT]

Been a few months, trying to catch up, but just wondering how the Hounds are looking this season.. Seems to be a lot of talent lost from last season, and a TON of talent lost from 2 years ago ( best team imo I have ever seen from East , and thats including the Spehar/Locker Era..)


How are the Bantam teams? Any standouts? anyone moving straight to Varsity? and how is the Forward/Goalie situation looking?

[karl(east)]

I'll try to break it down as easily as I can.

Returning forwards: N. Altmann, Kolar, Bunten, Chartier

-The first three were the East second line by the end of last season, and they were playing well in sections and at State. They aren't going to put up monster numbers, but with some PP time (they had none last season), they should be reasonably productive. Chartier was hurt for most of last season and should be a quality contributor.

The Bantam AA team lost the state championship game in 2 OT to Edina last season. It was a bit of a surprise that they made it that far, but there's obviously talent there. One of the better forwards is Marshall-bound, but they have at least two (A. Altmann, Donovan) who I'm guessing should be able to contribute right away.

After that, the JV had a very deep sophomore class last season, so I'm guessing they'll turn there to round out the lineup.

Returning defensemen: Beaulieu, Trapp, Marinac

-Once again, the team's strength: Beaulieu is leading his USHL team in scoring right now and will be a legitimate Mr. Hockey candidate, Trapp looked solid in the Elite League, and they have decent depth behind them.

Goaltending: The big question mark. Randolph said there are three goalies they're going to take a look at, so it might take a while to settle on one.

There will be peaks and valleys and probably fewer wins than the past five seasons, but this program is deep enough that Randolph will always have options. I guess my biggest questions are:

1. Who's the goalie?
2. How quickly can the lower lines come along and hold their own against strong, deep teams?
3. Can they get good special teams again, since that was so key to their success last season?
4. How adventurous on offense will the big two defensemen be?

[puckbreath]

I don't know the Duluth area dynamics at all, but why would someone leave the East program to go to Marshall ?

Not like East is a bad place to play hockey, eh ?

[karl(east)]

I don't know the Duluth area dynamics at all, but why would someone leave the East program to go to Marshall ?

Not like East is a bad place to play hockey, eh ?

A few possible reasons:

1. Typically, it's been easier to crack the Marshall lineup at a younger age than at East. It's no coincidence that Marshall became good in the late 1990s when it was near-impossible for sophomores to crack the East lineup. Throw in an easier path to State in Class A, and there is some allure there.
2. Some families have strong ties to Marshall and want to keep that tradition going. It also has grades 5-12, so some kids start there at a fairly young age.
3. Some people don't like Mike Randolph.
4. Duluth public schools went through a controversial restructuring plan over the past few years, angering some voters and also causing some fiscal issues that drove up class sizes, among other things. It didn't affect East a whole lot aside from the class sizes (test scores, college admissions, etc. remain excellent), but that could have scared a few people off. The passage of a couple of school board levies in yesterday's election should free the district to correct those problems now.

[puckbreath]

I don't know the Duluth area dynamics at all, but why would someone leave the East program to go to Marshall ?

Not like East is a bad place to play hockey, eh ?

A few possible reasons:

1. Typically, it's been easier to crack the Marshall lineup at a younger age than at East. It's no coincidence that Marshall became good in the late 1990s when it was near-impossible for sophomores to crack the East lineup. Throw in an easier path to State in Class A, and there is some allure there.
2. Some families have strong ties to Marshall and want to keep that tradition going. It also has grades 5-12, so some kids start there at a fairly young age.
3. Some people don't like Mike Randolph.
4. Duluth public schools went through a controversial restructuring plan over the past few years, angering some voters and also causing some fiscal issues that drove up class sizes, among other things. It didn't affect East a whole lot aside from the class sizes (test scores, college admissions, etc. remain excellent), but that could have scared a few people off. The passage of a couple of school board levies in yesterday's election should free the district to correct those problems now.

Interesting, thanks.

[east hockey]

I don't know the Duluth area dynamics at all, but why would someone leave the East program to go to Marshall ?

Not like East is a bad place to play hockey, eh ?

A few possible reasons:

1. Typically, it's been easier to crack the Marshall lineup at a younger age than at East. It's no coincidence that Marshall became good in the late 1990s when it was near-impossible for sophomores to crack the East lineup. Throw in an easier path to State in Class A, and there is some allure there.
2. Some families have strong ties to Marshall and want to keep that tradition going. It also has grades 5-12, so some kids start there at a fairly young age.
3. Some people don't like Mike Randolph.
4. Duluth public schools went through a controversial restructuring plan over the past few years, angering some voters and also causing some fiscal issues that drove up class sizes, among other things. It didn't affect East a whole lot aside from the class sizes (test scores, college admissions, etc. remain excellent), but that could have scared a few people off. The passage of a couple of school board levies in yesterday's election should free the district to correct those problems now.

Having that on-campus arena being built certainly didn't hurt!

Lee

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I really think that the quality of the school is the biggest variable. While the Marshall boys did go to state last year, the draw is the college they will attend from Marshall rather than from out of East. Especially the kids not looking to play college hockey.
That is WAY over generalized, but pretty true if you look at the academic side.
Ok, now everybody jump on me about how great a school East is, and all the college hockey players produced at Marshall...

[karl(east)]

I really think that the quality of the school is the biggest variable. While the Marshall boys did go to state last year, the draw is the college they will attend from Marshall rather than from out of East. Especially the kids not looking to play college hockey.
That is WAY over generalized, but pretty true if you look at the academic side.
Ok, now everybody jump on me about how great a school East is, and all the college hockey players produced at Marshall...

Eh, I have the numbers on college players, and I could pull them out, but I think we all know that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Marshall does fill an important niche in Duluth hockey, especially for players who want the HS hockey experience but may not want to commit to hockey as much as many (though certainly not all) East players do. School choice is a good thing, and it's great that there are options in the area. I am also sure that some families choose Marshall over East due to perceived academic advantages.

However, having gradated from East fairly recently, but having also seriously considered going to Marshall for academic reasons, having known people who transferred from one to the other (in both directions) during high school, and having talked to Marshall grads about this very topic since graduation...barring unique circumstances, I will politely roll my eyes at anyone who thinks that one is improving one's lot for college or life much by choosing Marshall over East.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Well at least it was polite!
Agree to disagree.

[rockcrusher]

2. Some families have strong ties to Marshall and want to keep that tradition going. It also has grades 5-12, so some kids start there at a fairly young age.

It is because of this reason, and no other. The kids from last years East Bantam AA team that will crack the lineup at Marshall this year have been going to school at Marshall for years.

[ILTG]

Not only were there a number Marshall kids on the East Bantam AA team last year there was a Denfeld kid too. Factor in that some were first year kids and that does not leave a lot of new players for the high school team.

[karl(east)]

Well at least it was polite!
Agree to disagree.

Fair enough. Just as long as you can respect the fact that there are an awful lot of East grads who got everything they ever wanted out of a high school (and more) out of East. The reasons some of us keep on following this hockey program after graduating and leaving Duluth go far beyond hockey.

2. Some families have strong ties to Marshall and want to keep that tradition going. It also has grades 5-12, so some kids start there at a fairly young age.

It is because of this reason, and no other. The kids from last years East Bantam AA team that will crack the lineup at Marshall this year have been going to school at Marshall for years.

True, but the question was posed rather broadly. #1 and #3 have certainly been true in the past, and #4 may or may not have factored into the decisions of kids enrolling at Marshall over the past few years, even in the early grades.

Not only were there a number Marshall kids on the East Bantam AA team last year there was a Denfeld kid too. Factor in that some were first year kids and that does not leave a lot of new players for the high school team.

Also true, but given the depth of the junior class, it's not as if there are a lot of spots for sophomores to jump right in anyway--as is usually the case at East.

[GPGT]

Thanks for the responses everyone..

Karl/Lee or any other east grad/fan... What team did you think is the best to come out if the school? He spehar years were amazing, as is the 98 team... Not quite as offensive, but Finnegan was a blast to watch...

Like I stated before after seeing all of easts teams since the early 90s, the 2011-2012 team had to be my favorite. Randolph was an amazing player and so fun to watch. And that first line was incredible... For those 2 years 2010-2011, 2011-2012, I got into HS hockey again...

[northwoods oldtimer]

As long as Randolph is around this club is top 10 material year in year out. Expect nothing short of that this season. Top dog in 7AA until Elks and Rapids prove otherwise. East sets the bar. They just know how to get the job done.

[Marty2013]

Hate to say it, But Hard to argue with that one. Duluth East on Top until someone proves them different. Although I do think a few teams will have better then usual chance to knock them off. Elk River? Grand Rapids (Only if AP comes back) maybe Forest Lake, Maybe Andover (although with out Perry a bit tougher) should be a fun Section to watch.

But as always I am sure there will be some surprises. a team that was expected to do well and they under-achieve, as well as the Over Achieving team.

Best of luck to all the teams - and most of all enjoy it... it all goes by so fast.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

east - in regards to #2, I would like to point out that enrollment by grade level increases dramatically from the lower school's youngest to the upper school's oldest. Class sizes increasing by 500 or more percent from 5th to 12th must surely add some hockey players without previous ties to the school.

I also think (and I have no facts to back this up what so ever) that families new to Duluth (and new to Duluth hockey) perceive the academics of Marshall as better and aren't caught up in the East or Stars legacies that Duluth lifers love, hate... You see my point.

[Froggy Richards]

I really think that the quality of the school is the biggest variable. While the Marshall boys did go to state last year, the draw is the college they will attend from Marshall rather than from out of East. Especially the kids not looking to play college hockey.
That is WAY over generalized, but pretty true if you look at the academic side.
Ok, now everybody jump on me about how great a school East is, and all the college hockey players produced at Marshall...

Eh, I have the numbers on college players, and I could pull them out, but I think we all know that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Marshall does fill an important niche in Duluth hockey, especially for players who want the HS hockey experience but may not want to commit to hockey as much as many (though certainly not all) East players do. School choice is a good thing, and it's great that there are options in the area. I am also sure that some families choose Marshall over East due to perceived academic advantages.

However, having gradated from East fairly recently, but having also seriously considered going to Marshall for academic reasons, having known people who transferred from one to the other (in both directions) during high school, and having talked to Marshall grads about this very topic since graduation...barring unique circumstances, I will politely roll my eyes at anyone who thinks that one is improving one's lot for college or life much by choosing Marshall over East.

Great points and I think I would agree for the most part when comparing Marshall and East. I've always maintained that your Parents/Family are a much bigger influence on your academic/life success than what school you go to.

But having said that, privates do have an advantage in that their focus and resources are spent on the gifted/high potential students and they structure their programs accordingly, with the main focus on college prep. Public schools in the USA are mandated by law to spend X amount of dollars on special education/special needs students. MN is even higher than the rest of the country. This doesn't leave a lot of resources left for the top end students. (Guess how much is mandated for them, yep, Zero) 50 years ago it wasn't that way, and we led the world in academics. Today, we're not even close. Unless this changes we will continue to produce Liberal Arts Majors at a record pace, while China produces Engineers.

[TheHockeyDJ]

Hate to say it, But Hard to argue with that one. Duluth East on Top until someone proves them different. Although I do think a few teams will have better then usual chance to knock them off. Elk River? Grand Rapids (Only if AP comes back) maybe Forest Lake, Maybe Andover (although with out Perry a bit tougher) should be a fun Section to watch.

But as always I am sure there will be some surprises. a team that was expected to do well and they under-achieve, as well as the Over Achieving team.

Best of luck to all the teams - and most of all enjoy it... it all goes by so fast.

A. Peterson is coming back. Posted by David Brown of the Fourth Period who covers the Wild. https://twitter.com/dhbrownTFP

[Marty2013]

Thats good for the Fans of High school Hockey

[mnmouth]

Thanks for the responses everyone..

Karl/Lee or any other east grad/fan... What team did you think is the best to come out if the school? He spehar years were amazing, as is the 98 team... Not quite as offensive, but Finnegan was a blast to watch...

Like I stated before after seeing all of easts teams since the early 90s, the 2011-2012 team had to be my favorite. Randolph was an amazing player and so fun to watch. And that first line was incredible... For those 2 years 2010-2011, 2011-2012, I got into HS hockey again...

Always been partial to the '98 club for their overall scoring balance, and true excellence in all areas. If not for the ineligibility issue surrounding Rheese Carlson that team likely would have gone undefeated and now we're talking about a club that ranks with the state's best of all time.

[offtheglas]

East is always a contender no matter what year it is

[karl(east)]

I'm having about five different conversations at once here, but hey, they're all good ones.

I also think (and I have no facts to back this up what so ever) that families new to Duluth (and new to Duluth hockey) perceive the academics of Marshall as better and aren't caught up in the East or Stars legacies that Duluth lifers love, hate... You see my point.

Yeah, I can see that. The strength of the East program--the reason it hasn't had a losing season in 60 years despite being a medium-sized association--has everything to do with a community effort from top to bottom, with family ties playing a big role across generations...if you're a newcomer and not raised in that, you might not understand what all the fuss is about. (Though I also know of some people who moved into it and thought it was great.)

Great points and I think I would agree for the most part when comparing Marshall and East. I've always maintained that your Parents/Family are a much bigger influence on your academic/life success than what school you go to.

But having said that, privates do have an advantage in that their focus and resources are spent on the gifted/high potential students and they structure their programs accordingly, with the main focus on college prep. Public schools in the USA are mandated by law to spend X amount of dollars on special education/special needs students. MN is even higher than the rest of the country. This doesn't leave a lot of resources left for the top end students. (Guess how much is mandated for them, yep, Zero) 50 years ago it wasn't that way, and we led the world in academics. Today, we're not even close. Unless this changes we will continue to produce Liberal Arts Majors at a record pace, while China produces Engineers.

I agree completely on the family/culture point.

On the bit about top-end students in the US, yes and no; Minnesota actually does pretty well when compared to the rest of the world, while the US's average is hauled waay down by the likes of Alabama and Mississippi.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... al/280827/

And in East's case, I think the school does do a pretty good job with the top-end students. (Forgive my lack of modesty, but I was one of them.) It's also not hard for passably smart kids to graduate from East with over a year's worth of college credit under their belts. But you're certainly right that public schools can be stretched thin in trying to meet everyone's need for college counseling, and there is obvious room for improvement.

I could go on here, but this is a hockey forum, not an education policy forum.

Karl/Lee or any other east grad/fan... What team did you think is the best to come out if the school? He spehar years were amazing, as is the 98 team... Not quite as offensive, but Finnegan was a blast to watch...

Like I stated before after seeing all of easts teams since the early 90s, the 2011-2012 team had to be my favorite. Randolph was an amazing player and so fun to watch. And that first line was incredible... For those 2 years 2010-2011, 2011-2012, I got into HS hockey again...

Good question, and I think it's a tough one because you could argue that the best teams they had in the 90s were the 1996 and 1997 teams, yet they didn't win it all...they won it a year early in 95 with a pretty young team, and a year late in 98 with a team that was supposed to be past its peak. The 2012 team was right up there with them, though. I might have to go look at some numbers and try to compare them when I find some free time.

If I had to pick, I'd probably say 1996. 11 players on that team played at least some D-I hockey, which might be the most ever...and that's not counting Chris Locker and Pat Finnegan. Not much shame in the way they lost, either.

But, I'll let Lee have the final say...he actually got to see those teams play every day. I just have a few DVDs.

[mnmouth]

But having said that, privates do have an advantage in that their focus and resources are spent on the gifted/high potential students and they structure their programs accordingly, with the main focus on college prep. Public schools in the USA are mandated by law to spend X amount of dollars on special education/special needs students. MN is even higher than the rest of the country. This doesn't leave a lot of resources left for the top end students. (Guess how much is mandated for them, yep, Zero) 50 years ago it wasn't that way, and we led the world in academics. Today, we're not even close. Unless this changes we will continue to produce Liberal Arts Majors at a record pace, while China produces Engineers.

I think we all agree that funding to schools should be increased, in general. How we do it . . . aye, there's the rub. And praise be that public schools are mandated to spend x amount of dollars for special ed. Special ed is truly for the special: extraordinary kids with disabilities and teachers, who are more highly trained, and giving more intensive one-on-one AND group instruction, than anyone or anywhere else in a school. The goal is always to return that kid - with at least grade level skills - to the mainstream as quickly as possible. A lot more could be stated on this subject, and likely will be. As for East hockey . . .

Karl/Lee or any other east grad/fan... What team did you think is the best to come out if the school? He spehar years were amazing, as is the 98 team... Not quite as offensive, but Finnegan was a blast to watch...

Like I stated before after seeing all of easts teams since the early 90s, the 2011-2012 team had to be my favorite. Randolph was an amazing player and so fun to watch. And that first line was incredible... For those 2 years 2010-2011, 2011-2012, I got into HS hockey again...

Good question, and I think it's a tough one because you could argue that the best teams they had in the 90s were the 1996 and 1997 teams, yet they didn't win it all...they won it a year early in 95 with a pretty young team, and a year late in 98 with a team that was supposed to be past its peak. The 2012 team was right up there with them, though. I might have to go look at some numbers and try to compare them when I find some free time.

If I had to pick, I'd probably say 1996. 11 players on that team played at least some D-I hockey, which might be the most ever...and that's not counting Chris Locker and Pat Finnegan. Not much shame in the way they lost, either.

But, I'll let Lee have the final say...he actually got to see those teams play every day. I just have a few DVDs.

. . . in the end, I always measure teams by championships. If championships are not part of the discussion, then I'd side with the '96 team that, but for the lack of replay goal reviews, played Saturday morning and should have been playing Saturday night. But Apple Valley had them on their heels for greater parts of that game in regulation. And Erik Westrum was better that night than anyone else on the ice. Apple Valley, though outshot, especially during the OTs, likely out-chanced East, with Kohlquist having to continually make huge saves just to get East into overtime.

The '98 team overwhelmed teams. They were never the lesser team on the ice for a whole game. Hastings had them for one period in the quarterfinals, but the Hounds were just too skilled and too deep and too damned tenacious on the forecheck. It must have been exhausting trying to defend them when they were on the puck in the offensive zone, and matching lines proved useless. Finnegan and Angell absolutely controlled the game when they were on the ice, which was frequently. Netminder Coole was outstanding. I'd put that team up against any including their 95-97 brethren.

[karl(east)]

. . . in the end, I always measure teams by championships. If championships are not part of the discussion, then I'd side with the '96 team that, but for the lack of replay goal reviews, played Saturday morning and should have been playing Saturday night. But Apple Valley had them on their heels for greater parts of that game in regulation. And Erik Westrum was better that night than anyone else on the ice. Apple Valley, though outshot, especially during the OTs, likely out-chanced East, with Kohlquist having to continually make huge saves just to get East into overtime.

The '98 team overwhelmed teams. They were never the lesser team on the ice for a whole game. Hastings had them for one period in the quarterfinals, but the Hounds were just too skilled and too deep and too damned tenacious on the forecheck. It must have been exhausting trying to defend them when they were on the puck in the offensive zone, and matching lines proved useless. Finnegan and Angell absolutely controlled the game when they were on the ice, which was frequently. Netminder Coole was outstanding. I'd put that team up against any including their 95-97 brethren.

With the 96 team, it's amazing how one (relative) off night can color our view of them--in their five other playoff games that year, their smallest margin of victory was 5. Throw out the Apple Valley game, and it might be the most dominant playoff run ever. But, of course, you can't do that. And even though they didn't play all that well in that game (especially early on), they still nearly won.

Now you've gone and given me an excuse to watch that game again.

With the 98 squad, I think you can definitely make the argument that they were the best team East has ever had. Finnegan, Angell, and Coole were stars, of course, but when you consider their relative lack of front-end forward talent and how much they'd lost off the 97 team (7 D-I seniors), it's very impressive that they dominated as much as they did. They beat the teams ranked 2-4 at State, too. Along with last year, it might have been Randolph's best coaching job to date, in terms of what he got out of what he had. They were hardly some underdog stealing the title, but it was the way they did it that made it impressive.

Though for similar reasons I have a soft spot for the 95 team--the 5-0 blitz of Jefferson has got to be the biggest win in East history.

The 97 team was very similar to the 98 team--probably slightly better in every area, actually, as they were holding top 5 teams to 1 or 2 shots a period at times--but they couldn't finish the deal on Saturday night against Edina. When I interviewed Randolph for the Hub book preview piece, he mentioned that game (along with Lakeville South in 2012) as the two games he wishes he could have back.

[GPGT]

Its hard to say for me as I think teams get better to her time... Biggest stronger, faster, puck handling etc.

Over the years I would have to rank them

2012
1996
1998
1997

Of course the were amazing players thru out the years, but those teams really were fun to watch for me. Also nick licari.? I reamber him as a Tasmanian devil... Short guy, but just solid! Physical, aggressive, great goal scorer and hands. Don't know where that came from, just trying to remember ppl

Also I don't know what year 2005-2006 possibly? Duluth marshal. Wrong thread to drop that name lol , but Jack Connelly's junior and senior team was amazing... They reminded me of Randolph , toninato, Olson... Flashy, fast and scored tons of goals... Is it possible for you to find out how marshal did that year, or those couple years.. It would be fun to see the numbers/pp stats vs the best of east