Girls JV vs U14A - Which is Better?

[hockeychopper]

Looking for some opinions on what is better purely from a development perspective, playing U14A as an 8th/9th grader or playing JV as an 8th/9th grader? Throw out cost and convenience for the purposes of this conversation.

[DubCHAGuy]

Looking for some opinions on what is better purely from a development perspective, playing U14A as an 8th/9th grader or playing JV as an 8th/9th grader? Throw out cost and convenience for the purposes of this conversation.

Coaching, ice time, etc. being equal I would say U14A. Longer season and generally only the better programs can field U14A teams. Plus you can get 40+ games where as JV gets 25, mostly against whoever is in your HS conference.

[State Champ 97]

Looking for some opinions on what is better purely from a development perspective, playing U14A as an 8th/9th grader or playing JV as an 8th/9th grader? Throw out cost and convenience for the purposes of this conversation.

I believe 14U is better if coaches at that level are qualified and not "Dad" or "Mom" stepping in to "help out"

More games, put more players in more on ice situations. More ice time. Tournaments that are, in a sense, like a play off atmosphere. Also keeps the 8th graders that is not ready to be around a junior or even senior on a JV seperate.

Our assc. dropped 14U for JV and I fought it then and would vote against it now. JV is commonly an after thought in many programs. I even know of a program that has tryouts for 14U and if you get cut you go to JV.

I have coached at both levels and our 14U usually beat the JV teams we played. Conversely our JV would often have a tougher time against 14U teams. 14U is usually a better and higher level of hockey.

[royals dad]

Depends on who coaches the respective teams more than anything from my perspective. Look at the staff for your program if you can and that should help make your decision there are certainly good, bad, and in between all over.

[Tenoverpar]

Personally I'd say JV is better than 14U

-Practice is daily and you're home for dinner with no 9:15 pm practices
-You are in the high school program and your high school coach is looking purely to develop you and not "win" like the 14U coaches are. I don't know where 97 coached but it sounds like they didn't consider themselves one program but rather 2 different teams in their school.
-The games are competetive, just about all of them..most JV's are relatively on the same level..at least in our neck of the woods

Unfortunately every school/association/area of the state has different situations that will lead to one opinion or the other.

[observer]

U14 should be better for development and a better experience.

I've been sad to see so many 8th and 9th graders on some varsity and JV teams. Each association and community high school is a different situation but overall it isn't a good thing. It means numbers are shrinking for some of the programs or there would be no need to make those types of decisions. As I have often said, it starts with recruiting 5 year old girls. Associations need 20 new mite girls each year. These programs dropped the ball on youth recruiting at some point. It's the most important function for youth association leadership to avoid peaks and valleys in numbers. To see Shakopee, Mound/Westonka and a few others with no U14 team is sad as I think they, and some others, are growing communities.

The youth association goal has to be having a healthy U14 program. High school teams should wait for the players. A few top girls will always make varsity but otherwise, as often is suggested on the boys side re: bantam vs. JV, play U14.

[DrGaf]

$$$ cheaper on JV as well ... at least on the boy's side bantam vs JV debate.

[demongoed]

I think this really depends on where you play. For us, the JV hockey is pretty competitive, almost every game, and the young players are playing against girls 1-3 year older. At the U14 level there may be 3-4 competitive teams, and then the drop off is pretty dramatic. As the poster said above, the girls practice everyday at JV, often with some overlap with the varsity, whereas with U14 we have trouble getting more than 3 practices a week. I think that every situation is unique. There isn't one right answer.

[State Champ 97]

Personally I'd say JV is better than 14U

-Practice is daily and you're home for dinner with no 9:15 pm practices
-You are in the high school program and your high school coach is looking purely to develop you and not "win" like the 14U coaches are. I don't know where 97 coached but it sounds like they didn't consider themselves one program but rather 2 different teams in their school.
-The games are competetive, just about all of them..most JV's are relatively on the same level..at least in our neck of the woods

Unfortunately every school/association/area of the state has different situations that will lead to one opinion or the other.

True statement. and very disruptive to the point there may not be girls hockey in our school very soon, and we are a AA program.
Very disturbing to see the number of girls decide they don't want to play anymore because of all the "drama" My daughter included. I know different topic but the point is, when we dropped 14U our numbers dropped across the board and they had already been dropping.

[Nimrod]

Lots of good points. For the most part it really depends on the situation. The one real advantage to playing JV is getting to know the Varsity Coaches and perhaps that will help the following year. That aside, I would go 14U. More FUN for the girls and parents. More games, out of town tourneys, etc. And its not all bad to let the girls grow up at their own pace (i.e., throwing a 14 year old into a locker room with 18 year olds can be an eye opener). I would focus on letting your daughter enjoy the sport. 14U is the last year year of youth hockey; have fun with it. Once they start in HS its more like a job. Yes, the much higher practice to game ratio on JV MAY lead to better skills, but looking back I think the memories are more valuable.

[SECoach]

The 14U and varsity games are very, very different. From the skill level to the type of game that is played.

One advantage of playing JV is that when a girl is playing JV, the varsity coaches have an opportunity to help them move towards playing a game the will help them at varsity. When they are at 14U, they are not always, but often encouraged to do what will make them successful at 14U. Players are surprised if they make the jump from 14U to varsity that the things that made them successful do not always work at varsity. When they are at JV, they have an opportunity to be coached to become a varsity player. I clearly know that this is not the rule, but girls playing at 14U are often taught what it takes to be successful at 14U.

[hockeychopper]

Does anyone remember a number of years ago why they went from a U15(I believe) to U14? Some of the things I've seen repeated in this thread is more on the social aspect. Why rush having a 13 or 14 year old kid in the locker room w/ an 18 year old. There was a previous thread a few years back that talked about going back to a U15 or even U16 format and eliminating JV hockey all together. Would you say the biggest drop off(girls quitting) in Girls hockey is after U12? If there were more options (u15 or U16) would more girls continue to play?

[U14ABystander]

U14 hockey, at least for AA programs, is head and tails about JV. Upper U14A teams would kick the snot out of most JV teams (save for maybe the likes of Benilde). Go to an average JV hockey game and watch for yourself. JV hockey is nothing like varsity hockey. JV is terrible hockey played by players in varying states of waning dedication who have played B level hockey their whole careers (and there is nothing wrong with that - just calling a spade a spade).

I see some posters suggest that JV hockey is good because you're being "developed" by the HS varsity coach. In my experience, that is a crock. In our association the JV girls are a complete afterthought. Most of them have no chance to ever play varsity, and the entire group is treated as such. Their practice time consists of going down to one end of the rink and organizing their own pond hockey game while the varsity coach and assistant work with the varsity team on the other end. All programs are different, so maybe in other programs they do get more development. But where I'm from they aren't really "developed" at all, let alone coached in any type of systems (no power play, no forecheck, etc).

My 9th grade daughter is playing U14 this year, and both she and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

Let your 8th/9th grader have fun with her peers. Let them compete for tournament wins and good memories. Let them compete in Districts/Regions/maybe even State. Why be in such a rush to play 25 completely meaningless JV hockey games, of which NO ONE cares about the outcomes of the games?

[blondegirlsdad]

U14 hockey, at least for AA programs, is head and tails about JV. Upper U14A teams would kick the snot out of most JV teams (save for maybe the likes of Benilde). Go to an average JV hockey game and watch for yourself. JV hockey is nothing like varsity hockey. JV is terrible hockey played by players in varying states of waning dedication who have played B level hockey their whole careers (and there is nothing wrong with that - just calling a spade a spade).

Not always true. On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots. They are senior and junior heavy, and sophomores and freshmen have very little shot at playing varsity, unless they are exceptional. On our team, none of last year's incoming freshmen or sophs could sniff the varsity, since they kept only 3 lines. This year, all 3 girls on what would've been the 4th line made varsity and are playing, some on the first & second units.

I see some posters suggest that JV hockey is good because you're being "developed" by the HS varsity coach. In my experience, that is a crock. In our association the JV girls are a complete afterthought. Most of them have no chance to ever play varsity, and the entire group is treated as such. Their practice time consists of going down to one end of the rink and organizing their own pond hockey game while the varsity coach and assistant work with the varsity team on the other end. All programs are different, so maybe in other programs they do get more development. But where I'm from they aren't really "developed" at all, let alone coached in any type of systems (no power play, no forecheck, etc).

And in our school, they get the same practice time as the varsity on their own separate rink. They received individualized coaching last year with some specific things for them to work on so they could contribute this year. They learn the same system coached at varsity. Will some of them never make varsity? Yes, some never will. But in our case, I am confident that the Varsity coach gave our daughter the blueprint about how to make Varsity this year. Whether a kid uses it is pretty much up to them.

My 9th grade daughter is playing U14 this year, and both she and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

And mine played JV and had a fantastic time, scored a ton, gained confidence watching some of the best players in the state, and is off to a decent start this year on varsity.

Let your 8th/9th grader have fun with her peers. Let them compete for tournament wins and good memories. Let them compete in Districts/Regions/maybe even State. Why be in such a rush to play 25 completely meaningless JV hockey games, of which NO ONE cares about the outcomes of the games?

As opposed to the U14 games that are vitally important to nobody but the girls and their parents. Look, everybody is free to make educated choices for their own situations. But it's just as wrong to say that all JV situations suck as it is to say that U14 is worthless, costs 3 times as much, and is way more inconvenient.

I would just suggest that you speak with parents and coaches in each of these situations. Then make the most of whichever path you and your daughter continue down.

And by all means, find a good summer program no matter which way you go.

[SECoach]

U14 hockey, at least for AA programs, is head and tails about JV. Upper U14A teams would kick the snot out of most JV teams (save for maybe the likes of Benilde). Go to an average JV hockey game and watch for yourself. JV hockey is nothing like varsity hockey. JV is terrible hockey played by players in varying states of waning dedication who have played B level hockey their whole careers (and there is nothing wrong with that - just calling a spade a spade).

I see some posters suggest that JV hockey is good because you're being "developed" by the HS varsity coach. In my experience, that is a crock. In our association the JV girls are a complete afterthought. Most of them have no chance to ever play varsity, and the entire group is treated as such. Their practice time consists of going down to one end of the rink and organizing their own pond hockey game while the varsity coach and assistant work with the varsity team on the other end. All programs are different, so maybe in other programs they do get more development. But where I'm from they aren't really "developed" at all, let alone coached in any type of systems (no power play, no forecheck, etc).

My 9th grade daughter is playing U14 this year, and both she and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

Let your 8th/9th grader have fun with her peers. Let them compete for tournament wins and good memories. Let them compete in Districts/Regions/maybe even State. Why be in such a rush to play 25 completely meaningless JV hockey games, of which NO ONE cares about the outcomes of the games?

It's unfortunate that you feel that this represents your local high school JV program. Many are exactly the opposite. The players are coached, their skills are constantly and professionally worked on, to give every player their best chance at becoming a varsity player. Coaches are constantly evaluating strengths and weaknesses in an effort to improve every player in the program. You have clearly demonstrated that there is no black and white answer to the question.

Playing JV hockey is also playing with their peers. It may be a different set of peers, but it is their peers none the less.

Also, there are people who care about the JV game, and that certainly includes the players that are playing in them.

[royals dad]

U14 hockey, at least for AA programs, is head and tails about JV. Upper U14A teams would kick the snot out of most JV teams (save for maybe the likes of Benilde). Go to an average JV hockey game and watch for yourself. JV hockey is nothing like varsity hockey. JV is terrible hockey played by players in varying states of waning dedication who have played B level hockey their whole careers (and there is nothing wrong with that - just calling a spade a spade).

I see some posters suggest that JV hockey is good because you're being "developed" by the HS varsity coach. In my experience, that is a crock. In our association the JV girls are a complete afterthought. Most of them have no chance to ever play varsity, and the entire group is treated as such. Their practice time consists of going down to one end of the rink and organizing their own pond hockey game while the varsity coach and assistant work with the varsity team on the other end. All programs are different, so maybe in other programs they do get more development. But where I'm from they aren't really "developed" at all, let alone coached in any type of systems (no power play, no forecheck, etc).

My 9th grade daughter is playing U14 this year, and both she and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

Let your 8th/9th grader have fun with her peers. Let them compete for tournament wins and good memories. Let them compete in Districts/Regions/maybe even State. Why be in such a rush to play 25 completely meaningless JV hockey games, of which NO ONE cares about the outcomes of the games?

It is a bummer when people come on these threads and talk in absolutes like this, basically your saying here is my experience and anything else is wrong. I am happy that you and your daughter have found the right path, I know there are others who went a different way all the way through and also look back on it as the right path for them. What happens in your youth association and HS program is not typical for all of them. Where we live we dont have much choice but the improvement we see in the kids from 7th grade to 12th grade (even for players who never skate varsity) is unbelievable. We have seen kids go from off the radar 12B to Senior Goalie of the Year and Miss Hockey (although both a couple years back).


That said I think we have the best HS coaching staff in the state and they would kill to have a program with U12A and U14A teams. They have even gone as far as running off season camps and clinics for the youth players and to try and organize the youth teams themselves. For a number of reasons our demographics being a major part, our youth numbers are never high enough to maintain those teams. There are a few players who should skip 14s and go straight to the HS programs but for the most part if you have the luxury of the option and the U14 coaches are good that seems like a good development route for most.

[U14ABystander]

[quote="blondegirlsdad"]
Not always true. On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots. They are senior and junior heavy, and sophomores and freshmen have very little shot at playing varsity, unless they are exceptional. On our team, none of last year's incoming freshmen or sophs could sniff the varsity, since they kept only 3 lines. This year, all 3 girls on what would've been the 4th line made varsity and are playing, some on the first & second units.

As opposed to the U14 games that are vitally important to nobody but the girls and their parents. Look, everybody is free to make educated choices for their own situations. But it's just as wrong to say that all JV situations suck as it is to say that U14 is worthless, costs 3 times as much, and is way more inconvenient.
[/quote]

1) The biggest reason that U14 is shrinking is because HS teams are ransacking their U14 teams to grab more and more talent to fill their varsity squad. You speak of only a very limited number of teams when you say "On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots and sophs and frosh hardly ever get a chance." I can't think of hardly any HS programs where that is the case. The more likely scenario is this: Varsity is made up of a considerable number of underclassmen, and the JV team is filled with upperclass "lifer" JV players, and 8th/9th graders who opted for JV after they realized they didn't have a chance to make the Upper U14 team or they got cut from their upper U14 tryouts.

2) My point was this: You cannot deny that at U14 there is just more competitive fervor, atmosphere, fun, etc. versus that of JV. In U14, each team plays in several tournaments every season, then you have the playoffs at the end of the season. These are highly competitive deals that are lots of fun for the girls and parents. With JV there is none of that. There is no end-game. They play their 25 games, then put their stuff in the garage on February 6th and watch TV.

From my experiences, the hierarchy of the levels skill-wise is this:
Varsity
U14 Upper A
JV
U14 Lower A / B

Would anyone deny that? Thus if your goal is to play at the highest skill-level possible, and you are not Varsity-caliber, play U14.

[hockeychopper]

Royals great commentary. Each situation is different from a demographic perspective, spot on there. I truly believe if every HS/Community had an association that could support an A and B team at each level through U14 that would be preferred by 90%+ of the HS coaches. I do agree a bit though however with U14ABystander that there are some JV programs that are basically a U19 team and this is NOT the feeder program for the HS but that's not everywhere. I recently saw a HS practice of one of the best teams in the state, the practice was combined varsity/JV and they were doing all the drills together. It was Varsity vs JV, on PP,PK and 5 on 5 but what a great opportunity for the JV kids to prove themselves and play against the top talent at their school.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of 9th graders who are playing varsity. It seems to me that there are more every year. The boys side is kind of showing a similar trend.

Do you think that the younger girls coming up have played more offseason hockey from earlier ages and as a result they are ready to challenge bubble players who are much older? My son's varsity teammates seem younger the last two years.
Any thoughts?

[royals dad]

From my experiences, the hierarchy of the levels skill-wise is this:
Varsity
U14 Upper A
JV
U14 Lower A / B

Would anyone deny that? Thus if your goal is to play at the highest skill-level possible, and you are not Varsity-caliber, play U14.

Sure, I think there are many very good players in U14A but the chart is to simplistic to be true. For example isnt the Edina JV team this year mostly from the Edina U14A team(s) last year? Would the Edina JV team be able to compete with the Edina U14A team. Your chart above says they could not but I think they would be quite a bit better.

[MNHockeyFan]

Do you think that the younger girls coming up have played more offseason hockey from earlier ages and as a result they are ready to challenge bubble players who are much older? My son's varsity teammates seem younger the last two years.
Any thoughts?

The main reason why you see greater numbers of younger girls making varsity has to do with the overall numbers being down. There are fewer associations able to field even one U14 team without forming a co-op with a neighboring community, whereas in the not-to-distant past there were many associations that had both U14A and U14B teams all on their own. I don't believe it has anything to do with the girls playing less summer hockey - they've been playing all they can (or want to) for quite a few years now.

The boys have an additional problem. There you have increasing numbers of players leaving high school early to go play juniors or AAA midgets. That has opened up spots for the most talented younger players to move up and take some of those varsity spots, which previously were not available.

I sure hope the recent trend for both girls and boys hits bottom soon and starts to go in the other direction. With the economy slowly continuing to get better that should help, as would another "baby boomlet" - especially among all those former players out there!

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

[U14ABystander]

[quote="royals dad"][quote="U14ABystander"]

From my experiences, the hierarchy of the levels skill-wise is this:
Varsity
U14 Upper A
JV
U14 Lower A / B

Would anyone deny that? Thus if your goal is to play at the highest skill-level possible, and you are not Varsity-caliber, play U14.[/quote]

Sure, I think there are many very good players in U14A but the chart is to simplistic to be true. For example isnt the Edina JV team this year mostly from the Edina U14A team(s) last year? Would the Edina JV team be able to compete with the Edina U14A team. Your chart above says they could not but I think they would be quite a bit better.[/quote]

I think you'd be quick to reassess your thoughts about which Edina team is better if you watched each of them play. Their U14A team would rip up the JV team. I've seen both play.

I will admit there are a few U14 A teams this year that are not legitimate A teams. They should be playing U14B. But the legitimate U14A teams are better than almost all JV teams save for a couple extraordinary programs (Benilde).

[Bulldog3489]

Not always true. On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots. They are senior and junior heavy, and sophomores and freshmen have very little shot at playing varsity, unless they are exceptional. On our team, none of last year's incoming freshmen or sophs could sniff the varsity, since they kept only 3 lines. This year, all 3 girls on what would've been the 4th line made varsity and are playing, some on the first & second units.

As opposed to the U14 games that are vitally important to nobody but the girls and their parents. Look, everybody is free to make educated choices for their own situations. But it's just as wrong to say that all JV situations suck as it is to say that U14 is worthless, costs 3 times as much, and is way more inconvenient.

1) The biggest reason that U14 is shrinking is because HS teams are ransacking their U14 teams to grab more and more talent to fill their varsity squad. You speak of only a very limited number of teams when you say "On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots and sophs and frosh hardly ever get a chance." I can't think of hardly any HS programs where that is the case. The more likely scenario is this: Varsity is made up of a considerable number of underclassmen, and the JV team is filled with upperclass "lifer" JV players, and 8th/9th graders who opted for JV after they realized they didn't have a chance to make the Upper U14 team or they got cut from their upper U14 tryouts.

2) My point was this: You cannot deny that at U14 there is just more competitive fervor, atmosphere, fun, etc. versus that of JV. In U14, each team plays in several tournaments every season, then you have the playoffs at the end of the season. These are highly competitive deals that are lots of fun for the girls and parents. With JV there is none of that. There is no end-game. They play their 25 games, then put their stuff in the garage on February 6th and watch TV.

From my experiences, the hierarchy of the levels skill-wise is this:
Varsity
U14 Upper A
JV
U14 Lower A / B

Would anyone deny that? Thus if your goal is to play at the highest skill-level possible, and you are not Varsity-caliber, play U14.

There are about 120 high school programs. I don't have a link to the exact numbers, but I thought the total number of U14A teams was somewhere around 30 to 40 with a huge talent difference between a few top teams.

[pucktech]

Not always true. On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots. They are senior and junior heavy, and sophomores and freshmen have very little shot at playing varsity, unless they are exceptional. On our team, none of last year's incoming freshmen or sophs could sniff the varsity, since they kept only 3 lines. This year, all 3 girls on what would've been the 4th line made varsity and are playing, some on the first & second units.

As opposed to the U14 games that are vitally important to nobody but the girls and their parents. Look, everybody is free to make educated choices for their own situations. But it's just as wrong to say that all JV situations suck as it is to say that U14 is worthless, costs 3 times as much, and is way more inconvenient.

1) The biggest reason that U14 is shrinking is because HS teams are ransacking their U14 teams to grab more and more talent to fill their varsity squad. You speak of only a very limited number of teams when you say "On good varsity teams, there are only so many spots and sophs and frosh hardly ever get a chance." I can't think of hardly any HS programs where that is the case. The more likely scenario is this: Varsity is made up of a considerable number of underclassmen, and the JV team is filled with upperclass "lifer" JV players, and 8th/9th graders who opted for JV after they realized they didn't have a chance to make the Upper U14 team or they got cut from their upper U14 tryouts.

2) My point was this: You cannot deny that at U14 there is just more competitive fervor, atmosphere, fun, etc. versus that of JV. In U14, each team plays in several tournaments every season, then you have the playoffs at the end of the season. These are highly competitive deals that are lots of fun for the girls and parents. With JV there is none of that. There is no end-game. They play their 25 games, then put their stuff in the garage on February 6th and watch TV.

From my experiences, the hierarchy of the levels skill-wise is this:
Varsity
U14 Upper A
JV
U14 Lower A / B

Would anyone deny that? Thus if your goal is to play at the highest skill-level possible, and you are not Varsity-caliber, play U14.

There are about 120 high school programs. I don't have a link to the exact numbers, but I thought the total number of U14A teams was somewhere around 30 to 40 with a huge talent difference between a few top teams.

Looks like 46 teams at 14 A this year...and just fyi there are 57 teams at U12 A...

1 Alexandria Cardinals 14U A
2 Anoka Tornadoes 14U A
3 Apple Valley Eagles 14U A
4 Blaine Bengals 14U A
5 Bloomington 14U A
6 Brainerd Warriors 14U A
7 Buffalo Delano (Black) 14U A
8 Buffalo Delano (White) 14U A
9 Centennial Cougars 14U A
10 Chaska Chanhassen 14U A
11 Cottage Grove Wolfpack 14U A
12 Duluth Icebreakers 14U A
13 Eagan Wildcats 14U A
14 East Grand Forks 14U A
15 Eastview Lightning 14U A
16 Eden Prairie Eagles 14U A
17 Edina Hornets (Green) 14U A
18 Edina Hornets (White) 14U A
19 Elk River Elks 14U A
20 Farmington Tigers 14U A
21 Grand Rapids/Greenway 14U A
22 Highland Central Capitals 14U A
23 Hutchinson Tigers 14U A
24 Johnson Como Devils 14U A
25 Lakeville 14U A
26 Litchfield-Dassel-Cokato 14U A
27 Mahtomedi Lakers 14U A
28 Minnetonka Skippers 14U A
29 North East Metro Stars 14U A
30 North Wright County River Hawks 14 A
31 Orono Spartans 14U A
32 Osseo Maple Grove (Black) 14U A
33 Osseo Maple Grove (Gold) 14U A
34 Owatonna Huskies 14U A
35 Prior Lake-Savage Lakers 14U A
36 Rochester 14U A
37 Rogers Royals 14U A
38 Roseau Rams 14U A
39 Roseville Raiders (Black) 14U A
40 Roseville Raiders (Silver) 14U A
41 Sartell-Sauk Rapids 14U A
42 St Cloud Huskies 14U A
43 Stillwater Ponies (Black) 14U A
44 Stillwater Ponies (Red) 14U A
45 Wayzata Trojans (Blue) 14A
46 Woodbury Predators 14U A