Class A Rankings 12-29-13

[elliott70]

QRF has it
SPA
maht
Simley
Totino

I don't think that will hold up OR coaches vote if that is what they do....
I believe it will be
Spa
Maht
Totino

Or with Totino moving up one or two depending on games to come...
At this point my choice to state is Totino

[nosoupforyou]

QRF has it
SPA
maht
Simley
Totino

I don't think that will hold up OR coaches vote if that is what they do....
I believe it will be
Spa
Maht
Totino

Or with Totino moving up one or two depending on games to come...
At this point my choice to state is Totino

At least Mahtomedi and TG will have some comparables to evaluate each other against by seeding time (e.g. Breck, Spring Lake Park, Rogers, Roseville, STA). Both schools favoring a tough schedule (Maht has 2 vs STA and Hill, Breck, Grand Rapids, and swapped a game with Simley for Roseville; TG has Breck, Benilde, Hermantown, Wayzata) vs a gaudy record. They probably won't enter sections with as good of a record as SPA, but their strength of schedules will have them better prepared. I think the seeds could/should end up:

1. Mahtomedi
2. Totino
3. SPA

I agree that Simley will not stay in the third spot. They will fall back as the season progresses.

[HShockeywatcher]

QRF has it
SPA
maht
Simley
Totino

I don't think that will hold up OR coaches vote if that is what they do....
I believe it will be
Spa
Maht
Totino

Or with Totino moving up one or two depending on games to come...
At this point my choice to state is Totino

Are there any hockey sections actually using QRF for seeding?

I would love to see SPA with the top seed; they've greatly improved in the last two seasons and still have a young squad. Hopefully their schedule continues to improve in coming years; they should be an up and coming force in Class A.
That being said, as my previous comments show, that will be quite tough for them this year. Guess we will see.

[Traxler]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

[elliott70]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

Name five teams you think would beat them.....
I am sure you can....
that makes them 6 or 7

[HShockeywatcher]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

As you wrote this there have also been all of 0 posters to give explanation to that vote, while 2 have given explanations to explain why they think they should be in the top 5...

38% also means 62% (of those who've voted) think they should be ranked in the top 5. It's difficult to give much meaning to selective polls like this; of the 3641+ times this thread has been viewed, there have been 31 poll votes.

Mankato West is one of those teams that is hard to rank. LPH had them ranked 8th in the preseason poll and even after their holiday tournament has only brought them up to 8. Outside of their holiday tournament, they have all of 2 teams on their schedule anyone would've given any consideration to before the season started, and that number may now be 1.
Like it or not, the Holiday Classic games are all we have to go by.
Madison Edgewood, #8 WI team
6-4 L to West
8-2 L to DM
7-0 L to Delano
Appleton United, unranked WI team (4-1-3 prior to Holiday Classic)
3-2 W to DM
8-2 L to West
5-1 L to EGF
Notre Dame Academy, #1 WI team, 13-0
5-1 W to Delano
2-0 W to EGF
3-2 W to West in OT

So, 1-1 against a team DM went 0-2 against and they went 0-2 against a team EGF went 0-2 against. If you further analyze how the scores went they did better than EGF in the tournament and against Notre Dame and Similarly well against Appleton United.

Any ranking with them outside the top 5 would have Marshall ahead of them, which I find really hard to justify right now. Their schedule may not be great, but they have 5 shut outs and have been kept under 6 goals twice this season. I could understand arguing them at 5 with Breck, EGF, Warroad and Hermantown ahead of them, but I just don't see any justification for them outside the top 5 (and don't agree with all 3 of those teams ahead of them).

Just my two cents, but as always I would appreciate feedback.

[Traxler]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

Name five teams you think would beat them.....
I am sure you can....
that makes them 6 or 7

Breck and East Grand Forks. I think Mankato West would beat the rest more often than not.

[elliott70]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

Here is a list of 18 teams.
I can think a few of these would beat West....
Breck, Warroad, Hermantown, EGF, Maht, Orono, Duluth Marshall, New Prague, TRF, Totino, SPA, St Cloud Cathedral, Delano, Chisago Lakes, Alex, Sartell, Denfeld, Blake....

Can you pick out 5 teams that would beat them (or more)?

I think 7 or 8 is a good spot for them.

[Traxler]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

Here is a list of 18 teams.
I can think a few of these would beat West....
Breck, Warroad, Hermantown, EGF, Maht, Orono, Duluth Marshall, New Prague, TRF, Totino, SPA, St Cloud Cathedral, Delano, Chisago Lakes, Alex, Sartell, Denfeld, Blake....

Can you pick out 5 teams that would beat them (or more)?

I think 7 or 8 is a good spot for them.

I'm glad we get to see what happens when they play New Prague soon.

[urban iceman]

MW has depth which will be in their favor vs New Prague if recent injured players aren't available sat. for the Trojans.

[karl(east)]

As you wrote this there have also been all of 0 posters to give explanation to that vote, while 2 have given explanations to explain why they think they should be in the top 5...

Since you're asking for explanations, I might as well give one, with the caveat that I don't know Class A half as well as I do AA. I voted MW 4th in the poll. Hermantown and D. Marshall may be better teams (not having seen MW, I can't judge), but both have had some questionable results so far. Hermantown's losses may be to AA teams, but that doesn't mean we can throw those games out without making some use of judging how good they are--and those two losses were ugly. The elite A teams can usually hang with the best of AA, but the Hawks haven't done that in their two games. Marshall, on the other hand, beat Rapids and stuck with Benilde, but has some less-than-impressive results on the record.

(Also, I've been meaning to ask this, since just about everyone has it listed as a loss...wasn't D. Marshall's loss to Appleton in a shootout? Shouldn't that officially make it a tie?)

MW doesn't have any bad results; just one close loss to a top-ranked WI team. Still, I wouldn't go as high as #2 because they don't have anything resembling a signature win, while East Grand Forks does, with their victory over Blaine. I think that should be worth more that a 1-goal difference in margin of defeat against a common opponent.

So, for now, I'd say:
1. Breck
2. EGF
3. Warroad (tied EGF)
4. MW
5. Winner of H'town/DM
6. Loser of H/town/DM

...for now, anyway. We'll see what New Prague has to say about all of this shortly.

And if one or both of H'town or DM (or anyone else, like Totino or Mahtomedi) go on a run down the stretch and get some big wins while MW continues to play mediocre opponents, they might deserve to move ahead of MW.

[HShockeywatcher]

(Also, I've been meaning to ask this, since just about everyone has it listed as a loss...wasn't D. Marshall's loss to Appleton in a shootout? Shouldn't that officially make it a tie?)

MW doesn't have any bad results; just one close loss to a top-ranked WI team. Still, I wouldn't go as high as #2 because they don't have anything resembling a signature win, while East Grand Forks does, with their victory over Blaine. I think that should be worth more that a 1-goal difference in margin of defeat against a common opponent.

So, for now, I'd say:
1. Breck
2. EGF
3. Warroad (tied EGF)
4. MW
5. Winner of H'town/DM
6. Loser of H/town/DM

...for now, anyway. We'll see what New Prague has to say about all of this shortly.

And if one or both of H'town or DM (or anyone else, like Totino or Mahtomedi) go on a run down the stretch and get some big wins while MW continues to play mediocre opponents, they might deserve to move ahead of MW.

It appears you are right, I was minnesota-scores'd again. The Hub has the Marshall/Appleton game as a tie.

I have no issue with your list, as I'd say the three you have 2-4 are quite close, but Warroad did lose to a Rapids team that Marshall beat. So how do you sort that little mess out?

I would also add that it could very well be argued that if New Prague wins the game Saturday that it simply means New Prague is also a top team, not that West isn't. Their two losses are early to Cathedral and to Eagan, both by a goal. Hermantown, on the other hand, lost to Eagan by 3.
Looking at their schedule, New Prague has the opportunity to run the table, just like West, with the only Hermantown and Holy Angels being the only 3 obstacles outside of West.

[elliott70]

with the caveat that I don't know Class A half as well as I do

Karl,
Half of nothing is nothing, so you know them equally well?????

[elliott70]

MW is 7 because there are 6 teams in single A that could beat them tonight.

Your analysis of scores and A - AA games is flawed.

Ranking is not standings.

[Dog_Log17]

MW has depth which will be in their favor vs New Prague if recent injured players aren't available sat. for the Trojans.

Who is MW expecting to miss Saturday vs NP? Or did you mean NP is battling some injuries?

[goldy313]

We get it Elliot, you think West is over rated, do you really need to go into thread after thread and repeat your mantra? Fine, we all get your point but you've become 3AHockeyscout, everyone else is wrong and you're right,
Obviously kids from Duluth are better than kids from Mankato.

[elliott70]

G....

[Dog_Log17]

Amen! Especially when DM lost 3-2 to the same team MW beat 8-2. (DM was on home ice too) Put that into your "Super Hockey Ranker Computer 3,000". When it comes back and ranks MW 10th and DM ahead of them, I would say that something is grossly inaccurate. Time to consult with the Geek Squad.

We get it Elliot, you think West is over rated, do you really need to go into thread after thread and repeat your mantra? Fine, we all get your point but you've become 3AHockeyscout, everyone else is wrong and you're right,
Obviously kids from Duluth are better than kids from Mankato.

[elliott70]

There sure are a lot of people who don't think much of Mankato West. As I'm writing this 38% feel they should be ranked lower than 5.

Name five teams you think would beat them.....
I am sure you can....
that makes them 6 or 7

Breck and East Grand Forks. I think Mankato West would beat the rest more often than not.

[urban iceman]

MW has depth which will be in their favor vs New Prague if recent injured players aren't available sat. for the Trojans.

Who is MW expecting to miss Saturday vs NP? Or did you mean NP is battling some injuries?[/quote
New Prague is missing two forwards and a defenseman.

[HShockeywatcher]

Watcher I know you like back and forth banter with the rankings.

I don't "like back and forth banter" on anything. I do, however, enjoy getting feedback on teams, especially those that are difficult to rank. I have gotten feedback from all of two people this entire season on Hermantown and both have said they've seen multiple teams in the top 5 play and that Hermantown should be sitting right where they are and agree with where I have them.

My original post was nothing to do with rankings, but yet reverted back to that.

Just responding to this post.
The Apollo loss was their 3rd game of the season where they were missing players, which was followed up by both of the other games we referred to. It doesn't erase the Apollo game, but make it less important.
The Superior loss happened over the holiday break and to what seems to be a decent Superior team, so not only could it not have been talked about for a while, it's hard to put them down too much, or even compare to Hermantown.
Ultimately, it was a judgement call and I chose to listen to my gut and the people who've told me they thought Marshall was better. They've played now, so Hermantown obviously gets the nod and we don't need any comparison method.

That being said, with your "no complaints" comments about the other 3 schools discussed, I don't see how you have the Hawks higher than 4. If they beat Rapids, they've get the nod on Warroad, but until then, they'll be on the outside looking in.

As for West, as was discussed in the Class A rankings thread, in their 3 games of significance so far, they performed better than EGF and DM. Also, what seems to escape Hermantown fans every year, is that while the rest of their schedule isn't pretty, they take care of business. They have 5 shut outs this season, 2 games giving up 1 goal and have been kept under 6 goals twice this season.
If Hermantown had been doing similarly with their schedule, there's no way they wouldn't be #1 everywhere.

Three others, including karl, have said they agree with my assessment of West. While I'm not claiming to be right, and 14 people have voted for them to be outside the top 5, no one has voiced an opinion in the thread on why.

Thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated.