Elk River

[slyer]

the next level would still be there next year if he is so good, would love to see the elks win the tournament more than ever now

[bubblehockey27]

If you consider leaving your friends, girlfriend, family, teammates, community, school, etc. behind 2/3 into a season where your team has an excellent chance of going to play in what most players who played in the tourney describe as the greatest hockey experience of their lives as being logical, then yes, I guess you're right.

For the other 99.999% of humanity, it is the very definition of illogical.

If you aren't good enough to get into the lineup of a decent USHL team, then you probably should still be playing HS.

1. You eventually leave your friends/family/girlfriend (if he has one, that is) anyway, whether that be for college or junior. That point is irrelevant.
2. I agree they have a good chance, but what if they don't make the tourney?! It's a hypothetical situation that's as valid as me saying "what if he wins the Art Ross trophy in 3 years?!" It's not real, therefore doesn't carry any weight in a debate about whether he should/shouldn't have left.
3. Many people describe that as "the greatest hockey experience of their lives" because A) Not everyone gets to play in one. B) Not everyone who plays in a state tournament goes on to play at the next level.
4. "99.999% of humanity" - Let's not get carried away here.
5. Waterloo is what, 27-5? That's not a decent USHL team, that's a damn good one. If a team is 27-5, I think it's safe to say they have a decent line-up, and probably don't want to mix in a 18 year old who has been playing HS hockey.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the timing of this is...interesting, to say the least. Will he regret it? I don't know, maybe. That's for him to decide as well. He's doing what he thinks is best for his hockey CAREER. He probably has aspirations to play D-I, maybe even pro someday...this move only helps his chances of that happening. Trust me, I love MN HS hockey, but you need to realize where it falls on the totem pole. It's 25 games in a league with sporadic talent. Any player would develop into a better hockey player and receive more attention playing Tier 1 Junior hockey. Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

Btw, going back to your previous point, Waterloo draws around 3k fans per game. How many HS teams get that many fans at a game on a nightly basis?

[sticksave]

His Dad did play college hockey, DivIII I'm pretty sure. I think the frustration of his kid playing half speed and the rumblings by parents and team mates made up the Zerban's mind. They didn't feel the love ......mainly because there wasn't much. The dad's jockeying for line placement by dropping hints of leaving was frustrating for the coaching staff. What the kid needs to be a star right now is to find a team that will play to his skill and pass the puck to him for the break away. His fall hockey team played to that skill and Zerban had some 5 point games. The Elks have three other players that are as good as Zerban and frankly weren't worried about making Zerban shine. Roberts constantly urged Zerban to skate down the middle and not around the outside. Zerban didn't achieve the same success doing that. So he wouldn't. Guess what Roberts was just trying to help the kid with what will give him success in the future. The guys that go up the middle are successful in the pros. The outside game does not work. It is best he does what ever his heart tells him. Hanging around playing at half speed and the no hustle factor was not going to help the Elks a whole lot. This will ignite the Elks I'm guessing

[OTB987]

Does he have a D1 scholarship?

No. And I doubt any D-1 program will ever want a player that would bail on a team in the position they were in.

WHL type material..

Zerben has skill but it his actions related to his mid-season departure and the family's role in the termination of the prior coach will have a negative impact on college recruiting.

When a team is interested they don't need input on how the kid plays but do need input on his is character. Who is going to be this players advocate? I question if a coach/school is going to sign up for having him on their squad with the potential of the player and parents making their job more difficult based upon historical actions.

[rainier]

If you consider leaving your friends, girlfriend, family, teammates, community, school, etc. behind 2/3 into a season where your team has an excellent chance of going to play in what most players who played in the tourney describe as the greatest hockey experience of their lives as being logical, then yes, I guess you're right.

For the other 99.999% of humanity, it is the very definition of illogical.

If you aren't good enough to get into the lineup of a decent USHL team, then you probably should still be playing HS.

1. You eventually leave your friends/family/girlfriend (if he has one, that is) anyway, whether that be for college or junior. That point is irrelevant.
It is relevant. Yes, everyone leaves, but he is leaving early, before they get a chance to go for their goal.

2. I agree they have a good chance, but what if they don't make the tourney?! It's a hypothetical situation that's as valid as me saying "what if he wins the Art Ross trophy in 3 years?!" It's not real, therefore doesn't carry any weight in a debate about whether he should/shouldn't have left.

Your belief that 17 more games at the USHL level will significantly enhance his development is every bit as hypothetical as my assertion that he may get to the tourney. It is hypothetical that they may make it to the tourney, just as it is hypothetical that they may not make it, but given they are the #1 seed in 7AA currently, probability is on their side. Having a solid chance to make it to the tourney is a HUGE factor and is absolutely relevant to this discussion, whether you like it or not.

3. Many people describe that as "the greatest hockey experience of their lives" because A) Not everyone gets to play in one. B) Not everyone who plays in a state tournament goes on to play at the next level. Thank you, Captain Obvious, but this kid has a solid chance at achieving A, and a solid chance at B whether he left this year or not.

4. "99.999% of humanity" - Let's not get carried away here.
Sorry, 99.888% is more accurate.

5. Waterloo is what, 27-5? That's not a decent USHL team, that's a damn good one. If a team is 27-5, I think it's safe to say they have a decent line-up, and probably don't want to mix in a 18 year old who has been playing HS hockey.

This makes me think of Avery Peterson, a kid who played on the top line for a very good USHL team (Sioux City), but returned to play with his friends and represent his community even though they are the 3rd best team in their section. If he was stunting his development so severely as you think playing in HS would, then why isn't Blais demanding that Peterson stay at SC all season?

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the timing of this is...interesting, to say the least. Will he regret it? I don't know, maybe. That's for him to decide as well. He's doing what he thinks is best for his hockey CAREER. He probably has aspirations to play D-I, maybe even pro someday...this move only helps his chances of that happening. Hypothetical assertion alert!!!! Trust me, I love MN HS hockey, but you need to realize where it falls on the totem pole. It's 25 games in a league with sporadic talent. Any player would develop into a better hockey player and receive more attention playing Tier 1 Junior hockey. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. Then why do any kids that want to go D1 ever play one game of HS hockey? Shouldn't they all be lined up to join USHL or NAHL teams as soon as they turn 15-16? If this is the slam dunk way to being a better player, then how can the vast majority of HS players and their families be so uninformed?

Btw, going back to your previous point, Waterloo draws around 3k fans per game. How many HS teams get that many fans at a game on a nightly basis?

And now he is on Fargo. I lived in Fargo when the Force were good and went to many games. Even then the atmosphere wasn't as great as a top HS matchup. Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

[bubblehockey27]

It is relevant. Yes, everyone leaves, but he is leaving early, before they get a chance to go for their goal. - And what's your point? "Before they go for their goal"? It clearly wasn't part of his goals to go to the state tournament. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Your belief that 17 more games at the USHL level will significantly enhance his development is every bit as hypothetical as my assertion that he may get to the tourney. It is hypothetical that they may make it to the tourney, just as it is hypothetical that they may not make it, but given they are the #1 seed in 7AA currently, probability is on their side. Having a solid chance to make it to the tourney is a HUGE factor and is absolutely relevant to this discussion, whether you like it or not. - 27* more games, and at a much higher level of skill. That's why he'll mature and develop. Please inform me how playing teams like Champlin Park, Anoka, Armstrong, and Coon Rapids will help develop a player. You're saying it's hypothetical that players develop better in the USHL?!?! Buddy, what are you talking about?! And also, having a solid chance to make the tourney is a huge factor for what?! Kids contemplating leaving for Juniors? What if Andrew played for FLake, or another small school, or maybe even a bottom dweller?!?!!? Would it make more or less sense for him to leave then?

3.Thank you, Captain Obvious, but this kid has a solid chance at achieving A, and a solid chance at B whether he left this year or not. - Ha, I was just responding to something you said. If the state tournament was the pinnacle of playing career, hint* I'd probably say the same thing thing *hint.

4.Sorry, 99.888% is more accurate. - Yes, 99.888% of Humanity. 7 billion people and 99.888% of them would rather play Minnesota HS hockey. Got it. That checks out.

5.This makes me think of Avery Peterson, a kid who played on the top line for a very good USHL team (Sioux City), but returned to play with his friends and represent his community even though they are the 3rd best team in their section. If he was stunting his development so severely as you think playing in HS would, then why isn't Blais demanding that Peterson stay at SC all season?
- Do you want me to pull out names of countless kids that leave early, and don't return to their high school team? I could do that if you want. Might take me some time to track down all the players, but I could do it. Different players mature at different rates. Some are ready for the next step out of HS and most need to develop in Junior.

Hypothetical assertion alert!!!! Then why do any kids that want to go D1 ever play one game of HS hockey? Shouldn't they all be lined up to join USHL or NAHL teams as soon as they turn 15-16? If this is the slam dunk way to being a better player, then how can the vast majority of HS players and their families be so uninformed? - Again, you are honestly going to sit there and argue that playing Tier 1 Junior hockey doesn't help his chances? Guy, you're losing credibility by the second. Just think before you type. No one in the hockey world would say that the MSHSL does a better job at preparing players for the next level than the USHL.

This argument is starting to get a little ridiculous. Hopefully I don't need to type about what supply and demand is. You know, the fact that there are 157 HS teams and 16 USHL teams. That might have a little something to do with the fact that not everyone can play when they are 15-16. Also, the fact that most Junior players are 18+ years old...idk, I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd probably put my money on those two facts. Crazy, I know. But I'm willing to bet that's why most HS kids don't play Tier 1 Junior hockey.

And now he is on Fargo. I lived in Fargo when the Force were good and went to many games. Even then the atmosphere wasn't as great as a top HS matchup. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. - So now 3k/game isn't good enough, you have to have HS atmosphere? I've been to Wild games where the atmosphere hasn't came close to HS hockey games...again, what's your point? Does a Junior team have to have the same atmosphere as a Warroad v Roseau game in order for a kid to be interested in playing there? Fargo's rink is probably the nicest in the league...I'd rather play there than 99% of the barns in MN.

[InYourFace09]

BubbleHockey,

We get it, kids leave for juniors. Great, that is their decision. The case in this ONE example is the timing. This is what is causing the uproar. I guess since his DAD has so much pull, he should have asked for a trade to Fargo sooner, so he could have played the whole season with them instead of playing with Elk River. Since HS hockey is worthless for him as he has not gotten any better against such bad competition.


I mean if 17 EXTRA games, being the ELKS have about 10 left themselves, makes that big of a difference to your projection. Go for it.

[puckbreath]

Said it before...........and again.


In my experience, the vast majority of kids that leave early, could care less if they leave their hs.

The parent(s) are the one(s) who care and do the pushing.

Your experience may differ.

[bubblehockey27]

BubbleHockey,

We get it, kids leave for juniors. Great, that is their decision. The case in this ONE example is the timing. This is what is causing the uproar. I guess since his DAD has so much pull, he should have asked for a trade to Fargo sooner, so he could have played the whole season with them instead of playing with Elk River. Since HS hockey is worthless for him as he has not gotten any better against such bad competition.


I mean if 17 EXTRA games, being the ELKS have about 10 left themselves, makes that big of a difference to your projection. Go for it.

Never said HS hockey is worthless, but sure, interpret what I said how you want. Why do I get the feeling that because I said the USHL is a better league for development everyone gets offended? Clearly I stated that the timing was a bit odd (I've said this multiple times in this thread). And how would 17 extra games not benefit him?

[karl(east)]

BubbleHockey,

We get it, kids leave for juniors. Great, that is their decision. The case in this ONE example is the timing. This is what is causing the uproar. I guess since his DAD has so much pull, he should have asked for a trade to Fargo sooner, so he could have played the whole season with them instead of playing with Elk River. Since HS hockey is worthless for him as he has not gotten any better against such bad competition.


I mean if 17 EXTRA games, being the ELKS have about 10 left themselves, makes that big of a difference to your projection. Go for it.

Never said HS hockey is worthless, but sure, interpret what I said how you want. Why do I get the feeling that because I said the USHL is a better league for development everyone gets offended? Clearly I stated that the timing was a bit odd (I've said this multiple times in this thread). And how would 17 extra games not benefit him?

Well, here is the math:

Fargo games remaining: 27
Minus the # of USHL games after the HS State Tourney, which Zerban could have played in if he stayed at ER: 10
Minus Elk River games remaining, should they go to state: 16
=a difference of 1 game.

If Elky gets bounced in sections he could leave a week earlier, in which case the difference would be down to zero.

I stay out of these arguments for the most part because I don't think it's my place to have a strong opinion on them, and because I think it is much more nuanced than the partisans on either side let on. But any HS player who is a legit D-I prospect is not playing 25 games. Between the Elite League or some fall alternative, HS, and (if he's good enough) a period after the season in the USHL, he's playing about 60. Say what you want about the quality of the games, etc., but the strict "number of games" argument does not hold up under scrutiny.

[green4]

http://ushl2011.stats.pointstreak.com/a ... onid=11221

to be fair to Fargo with only 5 wins they do extremely well for attendance.

[rainier]

It is relevant. Yes, everyone leaves, but he is leaving early, before they get a chance to go for their goal. - And what's your point? "Before they go for their goal"? It clearly wasn't part of his goals to go to the state tournament. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Your belief that 17 more games at the USHL level will significantly enhance his development is every bit as hypothetical as my assertion that he may get to the tourney. It is hypothetical that they may make it to the tourney, just as it is hypothetical that they may not make it, but given they are the #1 seed in 7AA currently, probability is on their side. Having a solid chance to make it to the tourney is a HUGE factor and is absolutely relevant to this discussion, whether you like it or not. - 27* more games, and at a much higher level of skill. That's why he'll mature and develop. Please inform me how playing teams like Champlin Park, Anoka, Armstrong, and Coon Rapids will help develop a player. You're saying it's hypothetical that players develop better in the USHL?!?! Buddy, what are you talking about?! And also, having a solid chance to make the tourney is a huge factor for what?! Kids contemplating leaving for Juniors? What if Andrew played for FLake, or another small school, or maybe even a bottom dweller?!?!!? Would it make more or less sense for him to leave then?

3.Thank you, Captain Obvious, but this kid has a solid chance at achieving A, and a solid chance at B whether he left this year or not. - Ha, I was just responding to something you said. If the state tournament was the pinnacle of playing career, hint* I'd probably say the same thing thing *hint.

4.Sorry, 99.888% is more accurate. - Yes, 99.888% of Humanity. 7 billion people and 99.888% of them would rather play Minnesota HS hockey. Got it. That checks out.

5.This makes me think of Avery Peterson, a kid who played on the top line for a very good USHL team (Sioux City), but returned to play with his friends and represent his community even though they are the 3rd best team in their section. If he was stunting his development so severely as you think playing in HS would, then why isn't Blais demanding that Peterson stay at SC all season?
- Do you want me to pull out names of countless kids that leave early, and don't return to their high school team? I could do that if you want. Might take me some time to track down all the players, but I could do it. Different players mature at different rates. Some are ready for the next step out of HS and most need to develop in Junior.

Hypothetical assertion alert!!!! Then why do any kids that want to go D1 ever play one game of HS hockey? Shouldn't they all be lined up to join USHL or NAHL teams as soon as they turn 15-16? If this is the slam dunk way to being a better player, then how can the vast majority of HS players and their families be so uninformed? - Again, you are honestly going to sit there and argue that playing Tier 1 Junior hockey doesn't help his chances? Guy, you're losing credibility by the second. Just think before you type. No one in the hockey world would say that the MSHSL does a better job at preparing players for the next level than the USHL.

This argument is starting to get a little ridiculous. Hopefully I don't need to type about what supply and demand is. You know, the fact that there are 157 HS teams and 16 USHL teams. That might have a little something to do with the fact that not everyone can play when they are 15-16. Also, the fact that most Junior players are 18+ years old...idk, I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd probably put my money on those two facts. Crazy, I know. But I'm willing to bet that's why most HS kids don't play Tier 1 Junior hockey.

And now he is on Fargo. I lived in Fargo when the Force were good and went to many games. Even then the atmosphere wasn't as great as a top HS matchup. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. - So now 3k/game isn't good enough, you have to have HS atmosphere? I've been to Wild games where the atmosphere hasn't came close to HS hockey games...again, what's your point? Does a Junior team have to have the same atmosphere as a Warroad v Roseau game in order for a kid to be interested in playing there? Fargo's rink is probably the nicest in the league...I'd rather play there than 99% of the barns in MN.

My issue is with your insane assertion that 27 more games in the USHL is going to make enough of a difference in his development that it is worth walking out on his team that has a good chance of experiencing a once in a lifetime event.

If he gets a D1 scholarship, will he point to the extra 27 USHL games as the reason he was able to get over the hump and make it to that level? Are you really trying to say this is the case?

If he and his family thought junior hockey was the way to develop, then he should have figured something out before the HS season began. If Waterloo wasn't willing to trade a player that couldn't make their roster as an 18 year old (doubtful), then an NAHL team would likely have welcomed him.

If you want to say this kid had a legitimate reason for leaving, that's fine, there are scenarios in which leaving is a good idea, but the reason you give is unequivocally moronic.

I can't decide if you are this kid's dad or a USHL coach, but it's clear you're not president of the local Mensa chapter.

[bubblehockey27]

Well, here is the math:

Fargo games remaining: 27
Minus the # of USHL games after the HS State Tourney, which Zerban could have played in if he stayed at ER: 10
Minus Elk River games remaining, should they go to state: 15
=a difference of 2 games.

If Elky gets bounced in sections he could leave a week earlier, in which case the difference would be down to one.

I stay out of these arguments for the most part because I don't think it's my place to have a strong opinion on them, and because I think it is much more nuanced than the partisans on either side let on. But any HS player who is a legit D-I prospect is not playing 25 games. Between the Elite League or some fall alternative, HS, and (if he's good enough) a period after the season in the USHL, he's playing about 60. Say what you want about the quality of the games, etc., but the strict "number of games" argument does not hold up under scrutiny.

I've always thought the MSHSL needs to up the regular season to at least 30 games (I think 35 games would be truly ideal, but whatever, that's subjective). With preseason, regular season, and playoffs, USHL players are looking at 80 games. Again, there's obviously a lot of variables to hit 80 games, but it's still 20 more than a player who does elite league, plays the regular season and makes it to state, and joins a USHL team for their remaining 10 games at the end of the year.

I think we can all agree the two leagues are great for different reasons.

[karl(east)]

Rainier...yikes, tone it down.

I've always thought the MSHSL needs to up the regular season to at least 30 games (I think 35 games would be truly ideal, but whatever, that's subjective). With preseason, regular season, and playoffs, USHL players are looking at 80 games. Again, there's obviously a lot of variables to hit 80 games, but it's still 20 more than a player who does elite league, plays the regular season and makes it to state, and joins a USHL team for their remaining 10 games at the end of the year.

I think we can all agree the two leagues are great for different reasons.

True and I certainly wouldn't object, though if you count USHL preseason, you should also count HS preseason scrimmages and jamborees and such.

Total tangent here, but I recall watching an East State Tourney DVD from 10-15 years ago in which they made reference to the significant number of in-season scrimmages East played during the season against top-end Metro teams. This isn't a Thing anymore, so I'm guessing the MSHSL shut this down. It would be interesting to know the history of that. It was a nice option for some extra games against top teams.

[rainier]

Rainier...yikes, tone it down.

I've always thought the MSHSL needs to up the regular season to at least 30 games (I think 35 games would be truly ideal, but whatever, that's subjective). With preseason, regular season, and playoffs, USHL players are looking at 80 games. Again, there's obviously a lot of variables to hit 80 games, but it's still 20 more than a player who does elite league, plays the regular season and makes it to state, and joins a USHL team for their remaining 10 games at the end of the year.

I think we can all agree the two leagues are great for different reasons.

True and I certainly wouldn't object, though if you count USHL preseason, you should also count HS preseason scrimmages and jamborees and such.

Total tangent here, but I recall watching an East State Tourney DVD from 10-15 years ago in which they made reference to the significant number of in-season scrimmages East played during the season against top-end Metro teams. This isn't a Thing anymore, so I'm guessing the MSHSL shut this down. It would be interesting to know the history of that. It was a nice option for some extra games against top teams.

Sorry, had too much caffeine in me.

[bubblehockey27]

My issue is with your insane assertion that 27 more games in the USHL is going to make enough of a difference in his development that it is worth walking out on his team that has a good chance of experiencing a once in a lifetime event.

If he gets a D1 scholarship, will he point to the extra 27 USHL games as the reason he was able to get over the hump and make it to that level? Are you really trying to say this is the case?

If he and his family thought junior hockey was the way to develop, then he should have figured something out before the HS season began. If Waterloo wasn't willing to trade a player that couldn't make their roster as an 18 year old (doubtful), then an NAHL team would likely have welcomed him.

If you want to say this kid had a legitimate reason for leaving, that's fine, there are scenarios in which leaving is a good idea, but the reason you give is unequivocally moronic.

I can't decide if you are this kid's dad or a USHL coach, but it's clear you're not president of the local Mensa chapter.

Haha I love how this is becoming personal to you. Now it's insane and moronic to think that a kid will be developing in the USHL. Wow, what a stupid, mindless thought! I'm truly ashamed of myself for considering the USHL, a Tier 1 junior hockey league, to be better than the MSHSL. Next you'll tell me Midget Major is superior to Major Junior, right?

He's going to be facing better competition in those 27 games, so yes, for the millionth time, I'd argue he will develop more. Imagine if a JGA kid played varsity for an entire season, safe to assume he'd be a better player by the end of it. And besides, he's already had chances at making it to state. I know you think the MN State Tourney is the holy grail of sporting events, but not everyone feels the same way as you. Some kids have larger plans and don't care about possibly being on the All-Hair team.

No, but if he gets a D-I scholarship I'm sure he'll point to the USHL being a huge stepping stone, and that it made it easier to transition to NCAA play. Just as he'd probably point to Elk River being a great stepping stone before Fargo.

He tried to go before the season began, it didn't work out. Now he has an opportunity and is taking advantage of it.

So if I were to ask this kid why he left for the USHL, what do you think his answer would be? Better question, what do you think an acceptable answer would be?

Yes, it's clear I'm not the chapter president of an IQ Society due to the fact that I have a different opinion than you and that I (along with countless others, mind you) believe the USHL is a better league for development. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my weekly beer session with all the other cavemen.

[bubblehockey27]

True and I certainly wouldn't object, though if you count USHL preseason, you should also count HS preseason scrimmages and jamborees and such.

Total tangent here, but I recall watching an East State Tourney DVD from 10-15 years ago in which they made reference to the significant number of in-season scrimmages East played during the season against top-end Metro teams. This isn't a Thing anymore, so I'm guessing the MSHSL shut this down. It would be interesting to know the history of that. It was a nice option for some extra games against top teams.

I don't know if you could...not all scrimmages are a full games worth. Most are just 50 minutes with a running clock. Can't really count that.

Plus we haven't even addressed the 3 extra minutes the Juniors get to play per period!!!

[puckbreath]

My issue is with your insane assertion that 27 more games in the USHL is going to make enough of a difference in his development that it is worth walking out on his team that has a good chance of experiencing a once in a lifetime event.

If he gets a D1 scholarship, will he point to the extra 27 USHL games as the reason he was able to get over the hump and make it to that level? Are you really trying to say this is the case?

If he and his family thought junior hockey was the way to develop, then he should have figured something out before the HS season began. If Waterloo wasn't willing to trade a player that couldn't make their roster as an 18 year old (doubtful), then an NAHL team would likely have welcomed him.

If you want to say this kid had a legitimate reason for leaving, that's fine, there are scenarios in which leaving is a good idea, but the reason you give is unequivocally moronic.

I can't decide if you are this kid's dad or a USHL coach, but it's clear you're not president of the local Mensa chapter.

Haha I love how this is becoming personal to you. Now it's insane and moronic to think that a kid will be developing in the USHL. Wow, what a stupid, mindless thought! I'm truly ashamed of myself for considering the USHL, a Tier 1 junior hockey league, to be better than the MSHSL. Next you'll tell me Midget Major is superior to Major Junior, right?

He's going to be facing better competition in those 27 games, so yes, for the millionth time, I'd argue he will develop more. Imagine if a JGA kid played varsity for an entire season, safe to assume he'd be a better player by the end of it. And besides, he's already had chances at making it to state. I know you think the MN State Tourney is the holy grail of sporting events, but not everyone feels the same way as you. Some kids have larger plans and don't care about possibly being on the All-Hair team.

No, but if he gets a D-I scholarship I'm sure he'll point to the USHL being a huge stepping stone, and that it made it easier to transition to NCAA play. Just as he'd probably point to Elk River being a great stepping stone before Fargo.

He tried to go before the season began, it didn't work out. Now he has an opportunity and is taking advantage of it.

So if I were to ask this kid why he left for the USHL, what do you think his answer would be? Better question, what do you think an acceptable answer would be?

Yes, it's clear I'm not the chapter president of an IQ Society due to the fact that I have a different opinion than you and that I (along with countless others, mind you) believe the USHL is a better league for development. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my weekly beer session with all the other cavemen.

'cause dad said to ?

[justanobserver]

Andrew and family- wish you the best of luck. It will not be an easy path
but I hope you are able to fulfill your dreams of playing D1 Hockey. I am
sure it was not an easy decision. You will always have your doubters. Build that resume and work hard on the compete level. You have the skill. You have the speed. You have the birth year. You are now playing in the USHL with great coaches. Get working so they can assist you with your dreams.........

[rainier]

Haha I love how this is becoming personal to you. Now it's insane and moronic to think that a kid will be developing in the USHL. Wow, what a stupid, mindless thought! I'm truly ashamed of myself for considering the USHL, a Tier 1 junior hockey league, to be better than the MSHSL. Next you'll tell me Midget Major is superior to Major Junior, right?

Here's my question: Do you think 27 games in the USHL is going to make enough of a difference in his development that it is worth walking out on his team that has a good chance of experiencing a once in a lifetime event? Apparently, you think it will. I do not.

He's going to be facing better competition in those 27 games, so yes, for the millionth time, I'd argue he will develop more. But is that amount of development worth abandoning your team right before playoffs? Does commitment to something other than yourself count for anything? Imagine if a JGA kid played varsity for an entire season, safe to assume he'd be a better player by the end of it. And besides, he's already had chances at making it to state. I know you think the MN State Tourney is the holy grail of sporting events, but not everyone feels the same way as you. Agreed, but I would argue the extreme popularity of the state tourney is why this forum even exists. It is one of if not the premier high school sporting events in the nation, and I bet it means a ton to the other players and fans of Elk River. Once again, is the development he'll get in those handful of USHL games great enough that he can ignore the teammates and community that has supported him over the years?Some kids have larger plans and don't care about possibly being on the All-Hair team.

No, but if he gets a D-I scholarship I'm sure he'll point to the USHL being a huge stepping stone, and that it made it easier to transition to NCAA play. Just as he'd probably point to Elk River being a great stepping stone before Fargo. That doesn't justify leaving late in the season. The USHL will be there next year.

He tried to go before the season began, it didn't work out. Now he has an opportunity and is taking advantage of it.

So if I were to ask this kid why he left for the USHL, what do you think his answer would be? Better question, what do you think an acceptable answer would be? There are many different acceptable answers, but "27 USHL games will provide me with enough of a development boost that it's worth abandoning my teammates before playoffs." isn't one of them.

Yes, it's clear I'm not the chapter president of an IQ Society due to the fact that I have a different opinion than you and that I (along with countless others, mind you) believe the USHL is a better league for development. Apparently these countless others aren't amongst the "countless" number of eventual D1 players and their parents that wait until after HS in MN to go to the USHL. Somehow plenty of kids make it to D1 schools and even the NHL without playing in the USHL before HS graduation. How can this be? Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my weekly beer session with all the other cavemen. Enjoy!