Illinois High School Hockey Comparison

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:00 pm

I am Illinois High School Hockey person trying to compare where we stand to Minnesota hockey.

Currently the Top 5 teams are 1-2 goals better than Shattuck St. Mary's AA Midget Major team. Since this is our only comparable data point.

Where would Shattuck St. Mary's AA Midget Major team be ranked if they were in High School Hockey division. Ballpark it...

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:25 pm

I can't speak to the quality of play, so this doesn't answer your question, but wanted to add this observation.
About eight years ago I was visiting my son when he was going to school in suburban Chicago. It just happened that a high school teammate of his was playing in the USHL and was playing at the Chicago Steel that weekend. We went see the game and it was a two-sheet complex in Bensenville. The smaller sheet was hosting an Illinois state tournament game at the same time as the Steel game. Probably about 50-100 people in the stands, compared to the thousands at the Xcel that same weekend for the MN tourney.

puckster14 · Post by **puckster14** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:38 pm

I have a couple questions and comments:

1) where did you come up with 1 - 2 goals better?
2) are you talking Illinois midget hockey?
3) what division of Illinois high school hockey, the pure or combined division?

I ask because I recently moved from Illinois and was a high school coach for a combined team. The best team I saw was the Rockford team, and this was a combined team. This team would have been beat by 4 - 5 goals by Shattucks midget team.

I have seen the pure division state game on tv in Illinois, on cable. I have also watch via online the MN state tourney, both A and AA. My players watched the A tourney with me and couldnt believe how fast the game was (streaming online). This wasnt even the big boy tourney. When they saw that AA level the next night, they asked if it was a college game. The Illinois state champ game I had to turn off because of how slow it was. And to be honest I laughed when I read this question on this forum.

There is no comparison between Illinois high school hockey and Minnesota hockey. If you want to take the best team in MN hs and play the best team in Illnois hs (in my mind Rockford), there is no game. Sorry, I have seen both, coached in both states at the high school level also. Your pure and combined division are average A level teams. The combined division is the better division than the pure in Illnois. Sorry, just what I think.

Now if youre talking MG hockey in Illinois, thats a little different. Midget hockey can probably compete, depends on what tier. But thats my humble opinion.

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:48 pm

hockeydad wrote:I can't speak to the quality of play, so this doesn't answer your question, but wanted to add this observation.
About eight years ago I was visiting my son when he was going to school in suburban Chicago. It just happened that a high school teammate of his was playing in the USHL and was playing at the Chicago Steel that weekend. We went see the game and it was a two-sheet complex in Bensenville. The smaller sheet was hosting an Illinois state tournament game at the same time as the Steel game. Probably about 50-100 people in the stands, compared to the thousands at the Xcel that same weekend for the MN tourney.

Yeah. That's the exact place, you know what you are talking about. Nailed it all. It really depends on what level of high school state tournament, since we have 4 division. The Final 8 teams of Red Division (Best Division) will pack that Bensenville stadium rink. Their the major players. Than we get to play the Championship in United Center(Blackhawks). The Championship game will get +5,000 fans for that one game. Depending on schools spring break. 2 years ago it was 10,000 fans. I know your whole tournament is in the Wild Stadium the whole time. While we only get the championship. So final 8 will pack that Bensenville rink.

BP · Post by BP » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:03 pm

sportsdevotees wrote:
hockeydad wrote:I can't speak to the quality of play, so this doesn't answer your question, but wanted to add this observation.
About eight years ago I was visiting my son when he was going to school in suburban Chicago. It just happened that a high school teammate of his was playing in the USHL and was playing at the Chicago Steel that weekend. We went see the game and it was a two-sheet complex in Bensenville. The smaller sheet was hosting an Illinois state tournament game at the same time as the Steel game. Probably about 50-100 people in the stands, compared to the thousands at the Xcel that same weekend for the MN tourney.
Yeah. That's the exact place, you know what you are talking about. Nailed it all. It really depends on what level of high school state tournament, since we have 4 division. The Final 8 teams of Red Division (Best Division) will pack that Bensenville stadium rink. Their the major players. Than we get to play the Championship in United Center(Blackhawks). The Championship game will get +5,000 fans for that one game. Depending on schools spring break. 2 years ago it was 10,000 fans. I know your whole tournament is in the Wild Stadium the whole time. While we only get the championship. So final 8 will pack that Bensenville rink.

There HS Hockey is club hockey, not even a sanctioned sport. Now, if yo start talking Mission, CYA, etc......that is a different story. Hockey is blowing up down there because of the recent succes of the Hawks and its showing up on the NDTP teams, etc. The 2003 CYA team is the #1 team in the country and top 3 team in North America with all IL kids. It's alive and well in IL, but its the AAA teams that are good, not their club HS teams.

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:04 pm

puckster14 wrote:I have a couple questions and comments:

1) where did you come up with 1 - 2 goals better?
2) are you talking Illinois midget hockey?
3) what division of Illinois high school hockey, the pure or combined division?

I ask because I recently moved from Illinois and was a high school coach for a combined team. The best team I saw was the Rockford team, and this was a combined team. This team would have been beat by 4 - 5 goals by Shattucks midget team.

I have seen the pure division state game on tv in Illinois, on cable. I have also watch via online the MN state tourney, both A and AA. My players watched the A tourney with me and couldnt believe how fast the game was (streaming online). This wasnt even the big boy tourney. When they saw that AA level the next night, they asked if it was a college game. The Illinois state champ game I had to turn off because of how slow it was. And to be honest I laughed when I read this question on this forum.

There is no comparison between Illinois high school hockey and Minnesota hockey. If you want to take the best team in MN hs and play the best team in Illnois hs (in my mind Rockford), there is no game. Sorry, I have seen both, coached in both states at the high school level also. Your pure and combined division are average A level teams. The combined division is the better division than the pure in Illnois. Sorry, just what I think.

Now if youre talking MG hockey in Illinois, thats a little different. Midget hockey can probably compete, depends on what tier. But thats my humble opinion.

1. I got the 1-2 goals from... when the top 5 High School teams play Midget Major CSDHL hockey teams. In which NT typically beats CSDHL teams. Shattuck St. Mary Midget Major is in that league. Also my hockey rankings is not perfect, but it is a solid source for comparison. I know it has flaws.
2. What I am trying to do, is compare NT towards Minnesota high school hockey. NT(Top 5 teams) plays Midget AA CSDHL teams during the year. Shattuck St. Mary's Midget AA team is in CSDHL. So I want to compare Shattuck St. Mary's Midget AA team towards Minnesota High School hockey.

I see you coached combined teams. Yes, Rockford. They are currently ranked 6-7. That exact same Rockford team also plays in CSDHL. Rockford has played Shattuck St. Mary Midget AA team twice this year. They split 1-1, in which both games were 3-2. So that 4-5 assessment has changed a little since you left. Shattuck St. Mary Midget AA team is 4th in CSDHL and Rockford is 6th in the league.

By Pure, we call it Red. The top 5 IL HS Red Division is a step above the rest. There is a drop off, that why I said top 5. Rockford finishes just outside that top 5 every year.

Sorry you had to turn off the TV. The hockey does not look that great on TV to be honest, I am aware. It's high school. Illinois best league is AAA.

So just to make sure I follow correctly. Would you say Shattuck St. Mary's Midget AA would be Top 10 in A league?

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:11 pm

There HS Hockey is club hockey, not even a sanctioned sport. Now, if yo start talking Mission, CYA, etc......that is a different story. Hockey is blowing up down there because of the recent succes of the Hawks and its showing up on the NDTP teams, etc. The 2003 CYA team is the #1 team in the country and top 3 team in North America with all IL kids. It's alive and well in IL, but its the AAA teams that are good, not their club HS teams.

Yeah HS hockey is not sanctioned due to risk management and insurance. No one will take that on except for 2 schools out of 50.

Yes, hockey is blowing up. We went from 3 AAA teams to about 6 AAA now. A and AA programs are emerging everywhere.

Yes, our AAA hockey is where the elite hockey players go. Illinois has some teams in the top 10 at Tier 1 AAA for all levels. Our CSDHL is one of the best tier 2 leagues and does well at Nationals.

We are not at Minnesota level yet, I'm aware. But you guys better watch out, since we are emerging quickly and making strong moves to catch up to your state and Michigan. We are getting there. We are slowly getting more drafted in NHL. Still not Minnesota level, but we are in the review mirror.

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:14 pm

This was a repost by accident. Now deleted.

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 pm

.

So I guess the bottom line is where does Shattuck St. Mary Midget AA fall, if they played Minnesota high school hockey?????????? .

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:59 pm

Would it be fair too say...

Top 20-25 in AA Class
Top 7 in A Class

SPUDNUT · Post by **SPUDNUT** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:18 pm

What if . . . . . what if . . . . . what if ?

If the dog hadn't stopped to take a dump, he woulda caught the rabbit !

Shattuck doesn't play high school hockey & is not sanctioned by the State High School League.

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:19 pm

The only game between SSM AA and a MN HS that I can find in recent years was in 2012, when they tied the Breck JV. Breck is one of the best Class A teams, but I highly doubt their JV would be a top 10 team in Class A.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/24 ... ason=58915

I can't offer much else, but it's a starting point.

sportsdevotees · Post by **sportsdevotees** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:41 pm

karl(east) wrote:The only game between SSM AA and a MN HS that I can find in recent years was in 2012, when they tied the Breck JV. Breck is one of the best Class A teams, but I highly doubt their JV would be a top 10 team in Class A.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/24 ... ason=58915

I can't offer much else, but it's a starting point.

So this is not comparable. That sucks. Seems like your leagues and divisions don't have inter-league. We have no rules or restrictions. AAA teams play HS teams. HS teams play AA teams. Whoever wants to play can play.

Well thanks for your effort. I guess I will have to just trust, myhockeyrankings.com. #FAIL

Start getting some high school team to Chicago for a tournament.

rbkhockey97 · Post by **rbkhockey97** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:21 am

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but Illinois hockey is not in the "rearview" of Minnesota hockey. I am a current HS varsity player in Minnesota, but I grew up in the Chicago area playing youth hockey for different AAA teams. I Played Varsity hockey at Lake Forest Academy my freshman year before moving to the Twin Cities that summer to explore hockey options. I remember playing in the Chi-Town Shuffle when I was younger competing against some of the Minnesota teams and thinking how skilled those kids were. The speed and skill at the HS level in MN is leaps and bounds better than that of the Illinois league. Don't get me wrong, the kids that play for the Mission, or even some that play for the CYA (Young Americans) can compete at this level. Aside from that, the HS hockey in Illinois can be compared to low level single A competition. The best HS team (New Trier) would have a tough time keeping it close with any team ranked within the top 40 (single A and AA combined) in the MN HS league. You using Shattuck as a stepping stone to MN HS hockey is incorrect, considering a decent number of Shattuck players aren't from MN, the school just happens to be located here. The depth of talent in Minnesota is far beyond that in Illinois. A 3rd line guy at an average school in MN could go to Illinois and be an absolute stud. Take it from me, a guy who was the next prodigy at Lake Forest Academy that went to MN to play better hockey only to find out it was a level I have never seen before. Coming from a first line at a prominent private school in Chicago as a freshman, I am now a junior and 3rd line guy at a decent single A private school.

rbkhockey97 · Post by **rbkhockey97** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:23 am

And as far as ranking Shattuck's AA midget team, they would be an average minnesota JV (not varsity) team at best.

NextGoalWins · Post by **NextGoalWins** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:29 am

Let me get this straight. You've been You went from playing AAA to Lake Forest Academy?? That's like going from playing on a top AA MN team to Junior Gold. And then you decided you wanted to explore other hockey options in MN? Highshcool to highschool yes MN is way better. AAA to IL or MN highschool you should have stayed in Illinois. If you are good enough to play for a top AAA team you are better off there. If you were a low end AAA player that would be the only hockey reason to leave AAA hockey for highschool hockey.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:54 am

And if you don't mind disclosing your MN team that would be interesting to know. I'm not asking your name and stats.

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:58 am

sportsdevotees wrote:
There HS Hockey is club hockey, not even a sanctioned sport. Now, if yo start talking Mission, CYA, etc......that is a different story. Hockey is blowing up down there because of the recent succes of the Hawks and its showing up on the NDTP teams, etc. The 2003 CYA team is the #1 team in the country and top 3 team in North America with all IL kids. It's alive and well in IL, but its the AAA teams that are good, not their club HS teams.
Yeah HS hockey is not sanctioned due to risk management and insurance. No one will take that on except for 2 schools out of 50.

Yes, hockey is blowing up. We went from 3 AAA teams to about 6 AAA now. A and AA programs are emerging everywhere.

Yes, our AAA hockey is where the elite hockey players go. Illinois has some teams in the top 10 at Tier 1 AAA for all levels. Our CSDHL is one of the best tier 2 leagues and does well at Nationals.

We are not at Minnesota level yet, I'm aware. But you guys better watch out, since we are emerging quickly and making strong moves to catch up to your state and Michigan. We are getting there. We are slowly getting more drafted in NHL. Still not Minnesota level, but we are in the review mirror.

By "elite" don't you also mean, the players with $ ?

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:02 am

SPUDNUT wrote:What if . . . . . what if . . . . . what if ?

If the dog hadn't stopped to take a dump, he woulda caught the rabbit !

Shattuck doesn't play high school hockey & is not sanctioned by the State High School League.

No kidding.

Same logic also used on here, with the "But team X, beat team Y by two goals, and team Z beat team Y by only one goal, so team X must be the better team....." arguments.

sanryam · Post by **sanryam** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:11 am

rbkhockey97 wrote:Coming from a first line at a prominent private school in Chicago as a freshman, I am now a junior and 3rd line guy at a decent single A private school.

You're a Junior in HS, yet previously you have talked about your sons going to Totino Grace in past threads...?? Confused.

notTONIGHT · Post by **notTONIGHT** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:14 am

How many of the AAA kids playing in Illinois are indeed from Illinois?

Seems to me they pull kids from other places, not from "home"

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:56 am

sanryam wrote:
rbkhockey97 wrote:Coming from a first line at a prominent private school in Chicago as a freshman, I am now a junior and 3rd line guy at a decent single A private school.
You're a Junior in HS, yet previously you have talked about your sons going to Totino Grace in past threads...?? Confused.

And he signed up for this board in 2008, which would have made him what, a 6th Grader?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:09 am

I was thinking the same thing.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:34 am

old goalie85 wrote:I was thinking the same thing.

To be fair, I guess he could be using Dad's account. Totino would make sense. He said he played for a small, Class A Private.

Ref22 · Post by **Ref22** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:38 am

sportsdevotees wrote:Would it be fair too say...

Top 20-25 in AA Class
Top 7 in A Class

No