East Grand Forks

[ted2you]

If this is a dumb post I apologize in advance. Elliot70 in a post suggested that EGF might be the best team in the state A or AA. EGF has beaten each AA team they played in the state this year and they didn't do it with "smoke and mirrors." This does strike a nerve for me when it comes to the small schools with good programs. It is hard to argue that EGF would be a big favorite if they played in in 8AA. Clearly they'd be the #1 seed. I think that A teams should be able to declare at the end of the season if they'd like to play in the A or AA post season. Look at a school like Roseau who opts up to play AA. It is admirable that they play at AA, but it would be nice if these small schools have the option. I am not suggesting that the private schools have the option and I remain on record that I feel that STA playing at A, was a complete injustice to the truly smalls schools. I'm not sure how often an A school would choose to move up, but it would be good for hockey to have that option. Frankly, I don't see how difficult that would be sectional seeding and it would give that small school that has a 1 in 30 year teams a chance to play with the top schools. I'm curious to hear the opinions on what EGF would be ranked in AA if they were in that class.

[blindref]

If this is a dumb post I apologize in advance. Elliot70 in a post suggested that EGF might be the best team in the state A or AA. EGF has beaten each AA team they played in the state this year and they didn't do it with "smoke and mirrors." This does strike a nerve for me when it comes to the small schools with good programs. It is hard to argue that EGF would be a big favorite if they played in in 8AA. Clearly they'd be the #1 seed. I think that A teams should be able to declare at the end of the season if they'd like to play in the A or AA post season. Look at a school like Roseau who opts up to play AA. It is admirable that they play at AA, but it would be nice if these small schools have the option. I am not suggesting that the private schools have the option and I remain on record that I feel that STA playing at A, was a complete injustice to the truly smalls schools. I'm not sure how often an A school would choose to move up, but it would be good for hockey to have that option. Frankly, I don't see how difficult that would be sectional seeding and it would give that small school that has a 1 in 30 year teams a chance to play with the top schools. I'm curious to hear the opinions on what EGF would be ranked in AA if they were in that class.

They have the option to move up at the start of the season.
Just fill out the paperwork like Roseau, Grand Rapids, Bemidji, Tech, Hill,
BSM, STA, Holy Family, Holy Angels and Cloquet.

[ted2you]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

[hipcheck]

Lets go back in time. When they split the state into 2 levels, it was originally meant to be for the small schools to have a chance at a state tournament. The Teir system did not work. Small schools like Hallock and Baudette were supposed to be the ones that benifited from the 2 class system It has failed them. Small schools that have a strong program (EGF, TRF, Roseau, INT. Falls, Warroad) should not have had the option to be in the smaller class. It should have been manditory that ALL small schools had to participate where the line is drawn. Still, it would be very difficult for Hallock and Baudette to advance.

EGF is one of the best teams in the state this year in either class.

[Deathblow]

Two years ago, the group of soph/juniors of EGF took second at the state A bantam tourney... So you can take that for what it's worth...I think that Bowen and Eades would have been eligible to play on the bantam team, too, but played varsity, instead. Their success really isn't a surprise, especially to people in the northwest. If I had to guess, they'd be a top ten team...maybe top five, at best.

[elliott70]

Take the top 8 to 12 schools by size of youth program, school or some measure of quality in each 'section'.
Make a special rule for privates based on quality, perhaps.

The section 8aa would be Roso, Warroad, TRF, EGF, bemidji, Moorhead, brainerd, perhaps put in Alex.

8A would be a good run with DL, Hallock, Park rapids, Crookston, Red Lake Falls with a chance. LOW, Bagley, and maybe Wadena.

7AA you have Deast, gr, Cloquet, Hibbing, Hermantown, d Marshall, Denfeld, and perhaps Forest Lake.

Just an idea.







EGF #2, behind Edina.

LN # 3.

[puckbreath]

I'm not sure what the big fuss is about.

EGF teams are/will be just as cyclical in quality as any other similar team.

It's just their time currently, but this too shall pass.

And I don't buy for a minute, that they are as good as the top AA teams.

[Deathblow]

And I don't buy for a minute, that they are as good as the top AA teams.

Why? If I may ask.

[Cadets16]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

Interesting argument. However, why should private schools be treated any differently than public schools? I mean STA has an enrollment close to 500, and only a few dozen hockey players. Yes they won state with a few really exceptional teams, but let's not forget the joke of the program they had before the Vannelli's.

Former AD Jack Zahr was reluctant to move up in classes at first, because he did not want to send the message that athletics were more important than academics and also because he did not want to give special treatment to a specific program.

Please do remember the STA swim team has something like a dozen state championships in the past fifteen years, or something like that. Also remember that the Cadet football team almost always is able to make it to state, or at least the section final, and are not a 6A football program. The wrestling team is practically non-existent.

If I misunderstand, please correct me, but is what you are suggesting that the High School League put restrictions on private schools for all sports in general and place them in the highest class possible? If so, that is not fair to the programs such as wrestling or football or baseball even, as they would not have any chance at all at competition. If you are suggesting it should only be for hockey, then I believe the MSHSL shouldn't do that in order to provide fairness among all sports.

Now to further my point that private schools shouldn't be treated any differently, would you really want a school like the Minnehaha co-op, or Providence Academy to play at a AA level? They wouldn't stand a chance.

Believe it or not, I do believe STA should have been at AA earlier but I also believe that we shouldn't forget the factors that lead them to opting up. Every now and then, a team gets good for a few years and everybody gets butthurt about it, crying out for a change to make it "fair", when in reality almost every team has the chance to beat any team on any given night and there isn't a single program in the nation that will be successful forever.

Now to EGF- no. They should play A where they have a chance.

[puckbreath]

And I don't buy for a minute, that they are as good as the top AA teams.

Why? If I may ask.

Because I think the top AA teams are better, in all positions.

[Deathblow]

And I don't buy for a minute, that they are as good as the top AA teams.

Why? If I may ask.

Because I think the top AA teams are better, in all positions.

Why are they better? Statistically, they stack up to teams like Wayzata...
EGF is strong enough defensively. They don't allow many quality shots...most are taken from point or along boards. They have a very nice mix of speed and physical play.

[puckbreath]

Why? If I may ask.

Because I think the top AA teams are better, in all positions.

Why are they better? Statistically, they stack up to teams like Wayzata...
EGF is strong enough defensively. They don't allow many quality shots...most are taken from point or along boards. They have a very nice mix of speed and physical play.

I already answered the question. With my opinion.

Obviously, you feel differently.

So it goes.

[goldy313]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.

Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

[RRubberbeeskit]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.


Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

[green4]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.


Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

Maybe private schools are different but Tommy Novak lives in Wisconsin, at least he did when he first started playing for STA

[Roy01]

With the exception of Roseau the schools you listed were either private schools or schools with enrollments at or near 1000 students. As much as I admire the decision that Roseau makes when were they there last Time Roseau made it to the tournament. The point of my post was that I would not wat that option for private schools. The fact that STA was eligible to play A was a joke. As I said it would be an option that would apply to only a few schools and would create some fairness. When you have an enrollment of 500 or less it is difficult to know who will stay and play their senior year, what injuries you might have and how competitive you woulc d.

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.


Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

I guess if you want to consider greater Grand Forks metropolitan... I currently live in Grand Forks and there's maybe 65,000 people between Crookston (25 miles from EGF), East Grand Forks and Grand Forks (across the river, but ND not MN) combined. Last year's census had East Grand Forks at 8,500 as rubberbeeskit mentioned. Exclude Grand Forks, ND and draw a circle an hour around here and the population is pretty sparce...... But, I can understand someone with "goldy" in their name not knowing the demographic of the greater Grand Forks area

Jokes aside though, East Grand Forks is a very good team. I don't put too much stock into the Breck loss being as it was the following from the win against the Blaine squad. I watched East Grand Forks play Breck and they (EGF) were completely burnt out...and it was visible. Not saying that is an excuse, but in a different setting than two games within 24 hours I would expect the outcome to be different.

Maybe we'll be fortunate enough to see that scenario play out in St. Paul in the next month

[puckbreath]

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.


Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

Maybe private schools are different but Tommy Novak lives in Wisconsin, at least he did when he first started playing for STA

The Golden Rule applies there.

Those with the gold, make their own rules.

[puckbreath]

EGF comes from a "metro" area of 65000. Stop with the poor us small school stuff. They draw from a bigger area than almost any A school outside the metro and the outstate privates.


Statistically they're as good as Wayzata? Really? EGF may be good but the truth is they don't play near the competition the top AA schools play. 8AA is probably the worst AA section in the state this year so hanging your hat on Roseau or Bemidji victories is suspect at best. Breck put running time on EGF and they lost to a team by more than 1A Mankato West did. EGF is a very good A team and would give many AA teams a good run but as good?

Elliots dislike and lack of respect for anything and anyone south of St Cloud makes him the north version of 3AHockeyScout.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

I guess if you want to consider greater Grand Forks metropolitan... I currently live in Grand Forks and there's maybe 65,000 people between Crookston (25 miles from EGF), East Grand Forks and Grand Forks (across the river, but ND not MN) combined. Last year's census had East Grand Forks at 8,500 as rubberbeeskit mentioned. Exclude Grand Forks, ND and draw a circle an hour around here and the population is pretty sparce...... But, I can understand someone with "goldy" in their name not knowing the demographic of the greater Grand Forks area

Jokes aside though, East Grand Forks is a very good team. I don't put too much stock into the Breck loss being as it was the following from the win against the Blaine squad. I watched East Grand Forks play Breck and they (EGF) were completely burnt out...and it was visible. Not saying that is an excuse, but in a different setting than two games within 24 hours I would expect the outcome to be different.

Maybe we'll be fortunate enough to see that scenario play out in St. Paul in the next month

I wouldn't put to much stock in the, over and over again, cry of defending the Breck loss with the excuse of two games/24 hours.

Guess what happens at state ?

[Roy01]

Guess what happens at state ?

Pending seeding, I may still be right though!

[puckbreath]

Guess what happens at state ?

Pending seeding, I may still be right though!

True enough !

[TTpuckster]

Guess what happens at state ?

Pending seeding, I may still be right though!

True enough !

Yes except that Breck had several days rest
Which they would not have at the state tournament

[elliott70]

Cadet,
I did not say private schools should play at the highest level in all sports.
I did not say they should be AA in hockey. The point is public schools can be divided by the size of the school. Private schools population and quality of student is controlled by the school. In my scenario another method needs to be used such as quality of program, as I stated.

[elliott70]

Goldy
The truth is
1 You know little of EGF
2 you know little of me or what I respect. On the other hand, you take every opportunity to bash me. I have continually ranked New Prague and MWest at or in the top ten all year (i do things other than this board). It is not out of respect but because they have good teams. I respect Luverne's program because they have built a good program. I like the 3A thread, both sides, because they have generated excitement for hockey in SW MN.
If someone states an opinion you bash them and not accept their opinion.

So take your crummy attitude and go.....

[puckbreath]

Pending seeding, I may still be right though!

True enough !

Yes except that Breck had several days rest
Which they would not have at the state tournament

That's true too.

[HShockeywatcher]

I have seen EGF [and Blaine] play all of once this year. It was a good game, but EGF's defense kept Blaine out of it. The defense they played that game would've shut down most teams in the state.

That being said, it's one game, which is why it's so hard to compare. If you exclude Roseau and Moorhead from the discussion, the Green Wave have played all of ONE top AA team. They won the game, so they have beaten 100% of the top AA teams they've played, but it's not much to go off.

Ultimately, they play the schedule they do for a reason. Likely money, but also ability. Last year's team was good, but not this good. Going 1-2 against Roseau/Moorhead and 3-1-1 against Warroad/TRF, they are significantly better this year.
That being said, their goalie is a junior and only 1 of their top 6 scorers is a senior, so a good argument could be made for them to have opted up last year. But really, the issue is ultimately when that decision has to be made and that it is a 2 year commitment. If you look at STA, for example, for them to have been in AA last year, they would've had to make the decision before playoffs three years ago, before the first of their 3 titles.

That means EGF would've had to make the call last year before the playoffs. Do you really expect a program that hasn't been in state in Class A in 11 years to opt up to AA before they get to state? Sure, they probably know their kids and how good they are and such, but that's a pretty big decision.

So, the "issue" is when the decision has to be made and for how long. I think you'd see more teams opt up, or not opt up, more regularly if they could make the decision in August and for one year. But I doubt that'll happen.
Just my two cents.

Because I think the top AA teams are better, in all positions.

Why are they better? Statistically, they stack up to teams like Wayzata...
EGF is strong enough defensively. They don't allow many quality shots...most are taken from point or along boards. They have a very nice mix of speed and physical play.

I already answered the question. With my opinion.

Obviously, you feel differently.

So it goes.

You responded to wondering why you think 'EGF isn't as good as others' with basically 'I think others are better.' That's not why, it's simply restating what.

Goldy: EGF is in MN and the pop is just over 8500 and you must be a MN resident to play in MN. EGF had a solid 3-1 win over Blaine earlier this season who I dont believe is in 8AA.

Can you open enroll across the border? I have no idea one way or the other.
If you can, then the point is quite valid. If not, the point is still the same, as people could move into MN before high school to play for EGF if that makes sense for them.