Achiever Academy ineligible girl players?

Matnorthfan · Post by **Matnorthfan** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:42 pm

Wbw- there is a more current article.

Craig Perry, league associate director who oversees student eligibility, said he received the e-mail but “sent it to our legal counsel” and declined to comment further. The league’s bylaws hold member schools “completely and solely responsible to certify” that students meet all eligibility requirements.

The high school league forwarded the e-mail to Achiever and is awaiting the school’s response.

School officials say the e-mail included some information not discussed with the league Friday but said in a statement that Achiever “exceeded the rules of the league with regard to verifying eligibility” and is not pursuing it further.

“We determined them eligible,” Achiever co-owner Tom Forsythe said in an interview. “We don’t feel we have any obligation to do anything else.”

Achiever determined themselves to be eligible. IF the documents are falsified or contain information that was intentionally submitted and known not to be true- fraud?? Is not doing anything else pleading the 5th?? Just kidding. Wouldn't the appropriate response be "what else do you need? let's get this straightened out."

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:50 pm

Matnorthfan wrote:Wbw- there is a more current article.

Craig Perry, league associate director who oversees student eligibility, said he received the e-mail but “sent it to our legal counsel”...

This will practically guarantee it will take months to get sorted out.

pepperpot · Post by **pepperpot** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:50 pm

Also in the same article from the 10th: "No final determination was made on the case."

Since then more facts have come out, making Stead's statement a little misleading and premature. I agree though, let the girls play, but let it be the ones who are on a team that didn't cheat to get there. Any victory for AA at this point is the same as Barry Bonds home run record. DQ. Way to go CP! Way to mess up dozens of girls hopes to make it to the big dance. You should be ashamed.

woogieboogiewoogie · Post by **woogieboogiewoogie** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:12 pm

If AA has already given the MHSL everything they wanted/needed I would guess that there isn't anymore that AA can do or give the league.

It still appears that this has been looked at or investigated by the MHSL.
I don't know if that is the case but from that article it looks like it.
I guess people can continue to send the league things and say "look at this, what about this, hey look what I found today and what about this" at some point the league needs to or has come to a conclusion. I don't know what the league did or looked at for Mr. Stead to make the comment he did. I am a true believer of being innocent until proven guilty. Reading Mr. Stead's quote it looks like AA followed the rules Is this double jeopardy?

Five policy considerations underpin the double jeopardy doctrine: (1) preventing the government from employing its superior resources to wear down and erroneously convict innocent persons; (2) protecting individuals from the financial, emotional, and social consequences of successive prosecutions; (3) preserving the finality and integrity of criminal proceedings, which would be compromised were the state allowed to arbitrarily ignore unsatisfactory outcomes; (4) restricting prosecutorial discretion over the charging process; and (5) eliminating judicial discretion to impose cumulative punishments that the legislature has not authorized.

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:59 pm

woogie- Let me help you understand the process since you came into this late and obviously didn't read the prior posts. The school AD is the gatekeeper of determining who is eligible at the school. At AA who is that? The AD then sends a roster to the League certifying that everyone on the roster is eligible. The League believes this information to be true since 99.99% of the AD's do the right thing. That is the end of the story of investigation by the League. Therefore, it is not surprising that Mr. Stead said what he did since he believed what AA had certified was true.

So now comes the search for the truth. Who does it? What can be looked at the figure out the truth? According the AAADad it's unfair to search public records to try to figure out the truth. That might be true in communist countries but not AMERICA. I'm sure the criminals sitting in prison would like AAADad's limitation in searching for the truth.

So, who tries to figure out the truth? The League says that we don't have the resources to do it. A lot of people are afraid to unravel the truth because they may feel some loyalty is breached if the truth is disclosed. Fortunately in this case the truth has been disclosed to the League.

The only remaining question is when will the League act since the folks in charge at AA have chosen to defend themselves to the end even though they know what the evidence is. They could care less about the rest of the teams and the girls and coaches they hurt in the meantime. They want the League to delay it's decision in hopes they can avoid multiple lawsuits from parents of AA kids for not giving them what they bargained for. Woogie, keep reading since there is more to come and please leave your jailhouse lawyering advice alone.

woogieboogiewoogie · Post by **woogieboogiewoogie** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:30 pm

AMERICAN wrote:woogie- Let me help you understand the process since you came into this late and obviously didn't read the prior posts. The school AD is the gatekeeper of determining who is eligible at the school. At AA who is that? The AD then sends a roster to the League certifying that everyone on the roster is eligible. The League believes this information to be true since 99.99% of the AD's do the right thing. That is the end of the story of investigation by the League. Therefore, it is not surprising that Mr. Stead said what he did since he believed what AA had certified was true.

So now comes the search for the truth. Who does it? What can be looked at the figure out the truth? According the AAADad it's unfair to search public records to try to figure out the truth. That might be true in communist countries but not AMERICA. I'm sure the criminals sitting in prison would like AAADad's limitation in searching for the truth.

So, who tries to figure out the truth? The League says that we don't have the resources to do it. A lot of people are afraid to unravel the truth because they may feel some loyalty is breached if the truth is disclosed. Fortunately in this case the truth has been disclosed to the League. (how do you know this?)

The only remaining question is when will the League act since the folks in charge at AA have chosen to defend themselves to the end even though they know what the evidence is. They could care less about the rest of the teams and the girls and coaches they hurt in the meantime. They want the League to delay it's decision in hopes they can avoid multiple lawsuits from parents of AA kids for not giving them what they bargained for. Woogie, keep reading since there is more to come and please leave your jailhouse lawyering advice alone.

No Lawyering advice happening. Just asked the question if this was DJ along with the definition for everyone to see. Plus I was hoping someone would set me straight on this situation and tell me to read the entire thread. Interesting that you were able to recognize my "jailhouse lawerying" Most lawyer's recognize my lack of skills right away.

Since I am not a lawyer. I am a French model no? I put it on the Internet that I am.

However this pans out there is no winner here unless AA wins the State Tourney! (just pushing your buttons a bit here) I know you're right "this is serious" I will keep reading. Thanks AMERICAN!

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:53 pm

woogieboogiewoogie wrote:No dog in this fight but I read article dated 2/10/14.
Online hockey schools prompt hard questions
By DAVID LA VAQUE, Star Tribune
02/10/2014, 9:48pm CST

In the article is a direct quote from the High School League Executive Director Dave Stead.

High school league executive director Dave Stead said "all Achiever Academy student-athletes are currently eligible, based on the league’s guidelines for participation."

Interesting quote from a MHSL spokesperson on the 10th of Feb.
Sounds like a closed case and they may have already looked into all these rumors/allegations.
The drama is entertaining though.
Let's Play Hockey!

Did you read the article in TODAY's Star Trib? Clearly it is not a "closed" case.

And AAAdad - you seem to know a heck of a lot about who and where the original allegations came from. Do you really know? Or are you trying to smear an entire team of parents? IMHO if AA wasn't aboveboard, one of their earlier opponents would have "outed" any cheating. But why doesn't MSHL or AA or CP just answer to the charges directly to the Strib writer? If there is nothing to hide why hide anything? I'm sure the SPA/Vis dad's BFF would give your team some press AGAIN tomorrow. Three articles in a row questioning the ethics of your school. If its all fiction, and I think it prob is, we all wish AA would make a definitive statement encompassing both what was accused and what is true. You would think your coach and admin would be eager to do this! Assuming everything has been on the up and up from day 1 at your school, it would be unfortunate that the Achiever girls go any further into the playoffs with the suspicion and negativity clouding their "achievements!" For the sake of your future teams and enrollment and existence, it's difficult to imagine that attracting new girls won't be negatively impacted by what is in the press. Even if its all bs (which if it wasn't I think it would have been exposed months ago) I think AA needs to not just say so but SHOW why it's bs. Sorry but the press and public opinion has put you in am impossible position of guilty until you or MSHL proves you innocent. Please reveal your truth. And your own insinuations about who started this in the first place and why - well, on behalf of all of us non-AA non-United non-4A crazy hockey parents, please put up or shut up. I don't understand the covert insinuations, and I am far from the only one. The "stalking" comments are as serious or more serious than anything that AA has been accused of. You could destroy a guys entire life with that kind of unproven slander. You shouldn't name names or even school affiliation. Like everything about the AA eligibility scandal, you don't I don't we don't know!

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:40 pm

Why would AA speak with the Trib until the investigation is complete?

Entirely possibly that MSHSL and AA both have a self agreed upon gag order in-place until resolved.

Fighting this through the press will not win AA any new fans, nor promote their concept to next year's incoming freshman. MSHSL must honor student conifendiality laws, etc...

Too often people these days want immediate decisions and everything in the open. Does not always work that way - for a good reason.

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:22 pm

Ok folks, it only took AA to get their lawyer one week to begin calling up the families to see where they and the daughters live. See new article #3 published by the Trib on the girls hockey hub tonight. Didn't know it took a lawyer to ask that question. So how long do you think the response to that question will take from AA? Think that someone at the League can skip coffee break tomorrow morning and make a call or two also?

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:40 pm

Marty- you can't be serious. Are these questions out of line: Mr. & Mrs X, do you live in North Dakota or do you live in Minnesota with you entire family? Mr. & Mrs. Y, do you live in Indiana or do you live with your entire family in Minnesota? Mr. & Mrs. Z, do you live in Wisconsin or do you live with entire family in Minnesota? Now, Mr. & Mrs. X, Y, and Z, the reason I am asking these questions is because your public tax records, business web sites and various twitter accounts including one from an Achiever father who claims to be your daughters billet parent give me some concern.

Really, am I missing something AAADad and AA? How long should it take to get an honest answer and hear the truth?

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:57 pm

I take back everything I said giving AA the benefit of the doubt. I rescind every statement that these allegations must not could not be true or it would have been exposed sooner. My opinion that this couldn't have been happening all season without coming to light was incorrect. Preach AMERICAN. Only wish for your school and daughter's sake (all of 4As sake really) that this was happening in November. So what happens in a month when you were proven to be correct sir?

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:41 am

AAADad- u got the billet kids all feed and ready for school yet or are you trying to help the owners of AA sift through the files to see where their parents live? I'd volunteer and help out to go through what appears to be in the owners eyes sensitive voluminous files concerning where the kid's parents live if you guys need any help. I'm used to working with lawyers on such matters.

Did the AA's make a special assessment yet to help pay their new lawyer so he can help them dial the phone and ask the parents where they live? Heck, I'll come over and do it pro bono if you guys just ask.

Has everybody flown in from out of state yet for the big game tonight? Maybe you can ask them when you pick them up at the airport if they flew in MSP airport from Brooklyn Park or did they fly in from Indiana, Wisconsin and North Dakota to watch their daughter in the section 4A championship game? You too can be a hero and break this case.

Or, do you think you can muster up just one innocent victim that sent their kid to AA to put a stop to this and do the right thing and let Sibley and Mahtomedi figure out who should play SPU tonight? There might be a nice newly created job waiting for you at the League being their "Rule Cheating Investigator" to spend hours and hours of time each week investigating new online Minnesota high schools trying to cheat the good honest people of Minnesota. Up for the task?

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:54 am

Don't girls living in Wisconsin already play for other MN private schools ?

Hopefully the SPA girls have not been convinced by their parents that they are already victim and cannot possibly win.

Go get them team United. Just end the controversy ... for now anyways

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:58 am

Day four in a series in the Star Trib... Questions about AA. That would be online THIS MORNING. The day of the SECTION FINAL. Props to the United coach for not calling out his opponent and taking the high road. There must be SOME parents from this team that want to take the high road as well?

AMERICAN maybe you can do the class action lawsuit against AA, CP, and MSHL on behalf of all the 4A families.

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:26 am

Marty-- I'm sorry but I haven't had the time to investigate other schools yet. This is the first I've heard your news breaking information. If I have to take on your new assignment do you think maybe AMERICAN could at least get a free lunch out of the deal.

And yes, I have all the confidence in the world SPU can win tonight and so do they. After beating a great SSP team you begin to believe in yourselves more and more which is the great thing about sports.

But, the issue is bigger than who wins tonight. They issue is cheating in an attempt to win and harming kids along they way. Do you think CP would be upset if SPU showed up with the Shattuck girls prep team tonight to play to see who goes onto the class 4A state tournament? Do you think SPU would allow that to happen? Do you think we as parents would let it happen? Do you think the League would let the game to go on? See Marty, it comes down to plain and simple cheating and finding someone to have the guts to call them to the mat on it.

sinbin · Post by **sinbin** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:31 am

Not sure who's right, wrong, or indifferent in this situation, but it would certainly be a refreshing change of pace for some guts to be shown. Bueller? . . . Anyone? . . . Anyone?

JohnnyBuck · Post by **JohnnyBuck** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:46 am

The Tribune article references that eligibility standards to include families living in the state. Well, this makes the investigation easy. One from St. Louis, Missouri and one from Hayward, Wisconsin. Case closed. The internet makes it easy! Come on MSHL. Game is in a few hours.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:59 am

Hill has at least four girls that live(d) in Wisconsin and actually some have play(ed) for Team WI development teams.

Maybe they all live with a host parent ...

Not sure if all these parents have made the move from New Richmond, Somerset, Hudson or where ever they lived before to Minnesota.

or are they and their parents exempt because they started 9th grade at Hill ?

blackshadow · Post by **blackshadow** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:06 am

JohnnyBuck wrote:The Tribune article references that eligibility standards to include families living in the state. Well, this makes the investigation easy. One from St. Louis, Missouri and one from Hayward, Wisconsin. Case closed. The internet makes it easy! Come on MSHL. Game is in a few hours.

Hey, give credit were credit is due, don't forget about the North Dakota and Indiana parents flying in tonight to see the game, or the one going back home to Georgia. Also, the Victoria, Champlin Park and Woodbury parents who's kids went to different schools last year while the parents sleep at night in same house (unless they decided to go to their shell apartment address).

The one's who should be punished are the two families who wouldn't go along with the program and have their kid's playing JV instead of Varsity. The pressure must not have got to them.

blackshadow · Post by **blackshadow** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:07 am

Marty wrote:Hill has at least four girls that live(d) in Wisconsin and actually some have play(ed) for Team WI development teams.

Maybe they all live with a host parent ...

Not sure if all these parents have made the move from New Richmond, Somerset, Hudson or where ever they lived before to Minnesota.

or are they and their parents exempt because they started 9th grade at Hill ?

Correct, they started in 9th grade, or went to the school prior to 9th grade.

minus3db · Post by **minus3db** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:17 am

This Section Championship game will be broadcast on www.msbnsports.net

should be an interesting atmosphere for hockey.

OnTheBench · Post by **OnTheBench** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:17 am

Marty wrote:Hill has at least four girls that live(d) in Wisconsin and actually some have play(ed) for Team WI development teams.

Maybe they all live with a host parent ...

Not sure if all these parents have made the move from New Richmond, Somerset, Hudson or where ever they lived before to Minnesota.

or are they and their parents exempt because they started 9th grade at Hill ?

Did these students start attending and playing at Hill in 9th grade? As I read the rule, they would be able to play varsity immediately if they enrolled as 9th graders even if their families still live in Wisconsin. Any other students, including 7th and 8th graders would need to move to Minnesota with their families to be varsity eligible their first year.

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:18 am

For a little levity

41 boys are desperate to leave Mn hockey,

but apparently girls want to come here to play hockey

MN_Bowhunter · Post by **MN_Bowhunter** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:21 am

Anybody on the fence about whether AA is guilty or not should go back to the AA threads from November where at least 4 AA parents were indignantly defending their school on these forums daily. Where are they now?

Letsgetrealpeople (aka Thevoiceofreason), where are you?

I'mlisteningtothefnsong, where are you?

Hockeychops09, where are you?

OsMetroDad, where are you?

Maverick2000 · Post by **Maverick2000** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:34 am

Stop all the complaining, Dodge County beat them twice this year, just play the game, win the right way, and teach your kids how to take care of business the right way.....ON THE ICE.........

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Achiever Academy ineligible girl players?

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