Duluth East vs Hermantown or Marshall, Why Not?

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:36 pm

Do it for the fans!
Cheap ice for pre-season scrimmages. You know your fans will come out for you.

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:47 pm

East hockey, mr site admin, if it is a top worth questioning annually the it must be a good topic. These kids all play each other in youth hockey and compete year after year. East schedule isn't so strong that they couldn't add two games locally between Marshall and Hermantown.

Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

If AA only and strength of schedule are the main reasons them someone is doing a crappy job with East's schedule, room to remove about 6-7 games for competitive teams.

Truly anyone can see game between these teams would be great for the area

TheInsider · Post by **TheInsider** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:59 pm

HockeyBum wrote:East hockey, mr site admin, if it is a top worth questioning annually the it must be a good topic. These kids all play each other in youth hockey and compete year after year. East schedule isn't so strong that they couldn't add two games locally between Marshall and Hermantown.

Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

If AA only and strength of schedule are the main reasons them someone is doing a crappy job with East's schedule, room to remove about 6-7 games for competitive teams.

Truly anyone can see game between these teams would be great for the area

Be careful, hes not afraid to ban people.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:01 pm

HockeyBum wrote:East hockey, mr site admin, if it is a top worth questioning annually the it must be a good topic. These kids all play each other in youth hockey and compete year after year. East schedule isn't so strong that they couldn't add two games locally between Marshall and Hermantown.

Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

If AA only and strength of schedule are the main reasons them someone is doing a crappy job with East's schedule, room to remove about 6-7 games for competitive teams.

Truly anyone can see game between these teams would be great for the area

That's the everything to lose nothing to gain argument that has been said prior. They really don't have anything to gain by playing them. It will be interesting once Hermantown gets their new facilities built. All grades should be opened up for open enrollment again. They have a waiting list in most grades now. And Hermantown has had players from other Associations open enroll or move in. They don't recruit like Marshall obviously, but with their success on the ice it's an attractive location for parents who have Mites and Squirts and think they're D1 talents.

rockcrusher · Post by **rockcrusher** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:07 pm

Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

HockeyBum,

Marshall has the same number of transfers on their roster that came in at Bantam age or AFTER that another top 7A team does. The FACT is that most of Marshall's roster has attended school there since 4th, 5th, or 6th grade. YES, they DO play for East or the Lakers for YOUTH hockey, and that is a Minnesota Hockey rule, they play for the association based on where they live in Duluth. Randolph and Smalley know these kids attend Marshall long before they will ever lace their skates for their first high school practice. So when it's said that Marshall 'harvests' players from other local youth programs, you now have, the rest of the story.

Post by **east hockey** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:16 pm

TheInsider wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:East hockey, mr site admin, if it is a top worth questioning annually the it must be a good topic. These kids all play each other in youth hockey and compete year after year. East schedule isn't so strong that they couldn't add two games locally between Marshall and Hermantown.

Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

If AA only and strength of schedule are the main reasons them someone is doing a crappy job with East's schedule, room to remove about 6-7 games for competitive teams.

Truly anyone can see game between these teams would be great for the area
Be careful, hes not afraid to ban people.

I let Karl do my light work now.

Lee

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:19 pm

I knew you weren't afraid of the conversation and ban someone for speaking their mind

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:38 pm

rockcrusher wrote:Hermantown keeps the same kids thru youth to HS. Marshall however harvests players from the other local teams youth programs in 8th grade. I think fear of to much competition from H-town and the private schools taking players is the real issue.

HockeyBum,

Marshall has the same number of transfers on their roster that came in at Bantam age or AFTER that another top 7A team does. The FACT is that most of Marshall's roster has attended school there since 4th, 5th, or 6th grade. YES, they DO play for East or the Lakers for YOUTH hockey, and that is a Minnesota Hockey rule, they play for the association based on where they live in Duluth. Randolph and Smalley know these kids attend Marshall long before they will ever lace their skates for their first high school practice. So when it's said that Marshall 'harvests' players from other local youth programs, you now have, the rest of the story.

Hermantown doesn't recruit or "harvest?" That's not true of either the boys or girls programs. It isn't true of any good program in a geographic area with more than one good hockey option.
Interesting to see what shakes out up there on the girls side with Marshall trying to start up again and P/H hustling after their trip to state. Lots of faltering programs in the hinterland who don't want to lose their kids to either Marshall or Hermantown.
And while we seem to have beat this subject to death, I guess it needs to be said again that kids and families choose schools for a lot of reasons other than hockey. I know right? Go to Marshall for hockey? Go to East for show choir? Every single situation is different. Give me all the options, enforce fair rules about who can go where when why, then let to each their own.

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:55 pm

You guys are taking this off topic, it's not about school choice or who play where it's about why East doesn't play Marshall or Hermantown. Or is that the two of then won't play East.

Post by **east hockey** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:55 pm

HockeyBum wrote:I knew you weren't afraid of the conversation and ban someone for speaking their mind

Even when one is being a bit of a jerk about it.

Lee

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:54 pm

Didn't mean to be a jerk, my public apology. Your a good guy and we all appreciate you guys

pekyman · Post by **pekyman** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:23 pm

HockeyBum wrote:You guys are taking this off topic, it's not about school choice or who play where it's about why East doesn't play Marshall or Hermantown. Or is that the two of then won't play East.

It's the first one. East won't play them.

Slammer · Post by **Slammer** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:28 pm

pekyman wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:You guys are taking this off topic, it's not about school choice or who play where it's about why East doesn't play Marshall or Hermantown. Or is that the two of then won't play East.
It's the first one. East won't play them.

Yeah I'm sure the section 7 big boys league champion of the past five years (who has brought home multiple AA state trophies in the past few years) is really scared to play two class A teams.

pekyman · Post by **pekyman** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:43 pm

Slammer wrote:
pekyman wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:You guys are taking this off topic, it's not about school choice or who play where it's about why East doesn't play Marshall or Hermantown. Or is that the two of then won't play East.
It's the first one. East won't play them.
Yeah I'm sure the section 7 big boys league champion of the past five years (who has brought home multiple AA state trophies in the past few years) is really scared to play two class A teams.

I don't think East is scared to play anybody and neither is Hermantown. These boys play each other up through bantams.

Herm /East BNAA teams have played 4 time this year.

Herm 2-1
Tie 2-2
Herm 5-1
Herm 6-1

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:07 pm

Ya baby! Sounds like Hermantown is going AA.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:24 am

Slammer wrote:
pekyman wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:You guys are taking this off topic, it's not about school choice or who play where it's about why East doesn't play Marshall or Hermantown. Or is that the two of then won't play East.
It's the first one. East won't play them.
Yeah I'm sure the section 7 big boys league champion of the past five years (who has brought home multiple AA state trophies in the past few years) is really scared to play two class A teams.

Because of everything you said in your post, East is clearly viewed as the premiere program in the Duluth Area. A couple of losses to Hermantown and Marshall and that is no longer an automatic. And make no mistake, if they played every year, East would lose some. And Hermantown is on the rise. Once they get the new shiny buildings up and increase their enrollment, East may not be the only AA game in town anymore. The Duluth school district is not in good shape. The Red Plan has left them Millions and Millions in debt. Property taxes have risen double digits every year. Obviously, the East side of town isn't as negatively affected as the West, but It's not inconceivable that more and more affluent families and hockey players could migrate over to Hermantown. If they were beating East in Hockey, this could be accelerated.

Interesting that former NHL'er Derek Plante chose to live in Hermantown after he retired when he and his wife both work in Duluth. And don't give me the "his Dad is the high school coach argument." Bruce is 65 years old and will probably not be coaching his Mite aged grandkids in High School. Same with Scott Sandelin. Why did he choose Hermantown over Duluth?

There is a reason they don't play them, and I think it's pretty obvious. To be clear, as I've said, I don't blame them. I wouldn't play them either if I ran the East program. As I've said, they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by doing so. If you disagree Slammer, then please let us know what your theory is for why they refuse to play them........

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:42 am

Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!

mnmouth · Post by **mnmouth** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:05 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!

Not only that, but Hermantown has a lot more undeveloped land and is generally more beautiful than Duluth. Helps to have a boat load of money, which Plante and Sandelin likely have, to build there. Also a certain prestige to living in Hermantown that is perpetuated by the folks who live there.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:07 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!

He's an Assistant Coach at UMD. You think he has his sights set on a High School job that pays a couple thousand bucks?

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:11 am

Not necessarily but I also don't think they moved to Hermantown because it was more beautiful than Duluth. Pretty sure he isn't coaching ANYWHERE for the money. And don't you think Langenbrunner ends up coaching in Cloquet? Similar backstory I'd say.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:11 am

mnmouth wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!
Not only that, but Hermantown has a lot more undeveloped land and is generally more beautiful than Duluth. Helps to have a boat load of money, which Plante and Sandelin likely have, to build there. Also a certain prestige to living in Hermantown that is perpetuated by the folks who live there.

I'm assuming your first sentence was tongue in cheek. Hermantown was built on a swamp and is nowhere near as scenic as Duluth. I definitely agree with your last sentence though.

mnmouth · Post by **mnmouth** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:12 am

Froggy Richards wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!
He's an Assistant Coach at UMD. You think he has his sights set on a High School job that pays a couple thousand bucks?

Perhaps not, though coaching high school hockey seems to have worked for Gordie Roberts and Curt Giles . . .

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:13 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Not necessarily but I also don't think they moved to Hermantown because it was more beautiful than Duluth. Pretty sure he isn't coaching ANYWHERE for the money. And don't you think Langenbrunner ends up coaching in Cloquet? Similar backstory I'd say.

Difference is that Langenbrunner definitely doesn't need the money. Maybe Derek invested well but he didn't make near the money Langenbrunner did.

Post by **east hockey** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:20 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Not necessarily but I also don't think they moved to Hermantown because it was more beautiful than Duluth. Pretty sure he isn't coaching ANYWHERE for the money. And don't you think Langenbrunner ends up coaching in Cloquet? Similar backstory I'd say.

'

Hermantown? Beautiful? It's a suburb. I don't think beautiful is a word I'd use to describe any suburb. What is the most scenic place in Hermantown? Mogie Lake?

Lee

mnmouth · Post by **mnmouth** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:21 am

Froggy Richards wrote:
mnmouth wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Here's why... Guaranteed future coach upon his fathers retirement? And H-town is minutes away from Duluth. ONE MINUTE in many areas. Wasn't like they are driving to Cloquet for hockey. Although maybe they would if he had the in for Esse's job!
Not only that, but Hermantown has a lot more undeveloped land and is generally more beautiful than Duluth. Helps to have a boat load of money, which Plante and Sandelin likely have, to build there. Also a certain prestige to living in Hermantown that is perpetuated by the folks who live there.
I'm assuming your first sentence was tongue in cheek. Hermantown was built on a swamp and is nowhere near as scenic as Duluth. I definitely agree with your last sentence though.

There is swamp everywhere in northern Minnesota. Drive along Ugstad, Stebner, Lavaque from Hermantown to Proctor, or on Hermantown Road and you will discover, ridgelines, small rolling hills and lots of trees. There definitely are beautiful parts to Duluth - generally along the hillside above West Duluth or in small pockets in the city - but much of the available, buildable, rural property is located outside Duluth in Lakewood Township or north of the city.