Duluth East vs Hermantown or Marshall, Why Not?

[Hawkyfan70]

Hermantown? Beautiful? It's a suburb. I don't think beautiful is a word I'd use to describe any suburb. What is the most scenic place in Hermantown? Mogie Lake?

Lee

Proctor Envy

[east hockey]

Hermantown? Beautiful? It's a suburb. I don't think beautiful is a word I'd use to describe any suburb. What is the most scenic place in Hermantown? Mogie Lake?

Lee

Proctor Envy

At least we can see Lake Superior from our house.

Lee

[Froggy Richards]

Hermantown? Beautiful? It's a suburb. I don't think beautiful is a word I'd use to describe any suburb. What is the most scenic place in Hermantown? Mogie Lake?

Lee

Proctor Envy

At least we can see Lake Superior from our house.

Lee

Yeah, but he can see Hwy. 53 from his. I heard it's beautiful in the winter time!

[east hockey]

Proctor Envy

At least we can see Lake Superior from our house.

Lee

Yeah, but he can see Hwy. 53 from his. I heard it's beautiful in the winter time!

At least he doesn't claim he can see Russia.

Lee

[MNHockeyFan]

At least he doesn't claim he can see Russia.

True, but if the pollution rising above Duluth doesn't obstruct his view too bad he probably CAN see Wisconsin!

[HockeyBum]

I find it interesting how quick, intelligent individuals, can display a 3rd grader IQ. In my original post I was looking for much more of a productive discussion. See the reason this never gets resolved and is brought up year after year is because people take the discussion to the 3rd grade level of who has better landscape.

:arrow: It makes no sense and I havent heard of a single excuse that is justified why the local HS Hockey teams wouldn't play each other. Even if Hermantown moved to AA I am sure there are reasons east groupies would come up with to not play them (Tradition?).
:arrow: If it has something to do with the AD's at Marshall or Hermantown, then the AD's or coaches are idiots.

:arrow: If AA or A means anything why does Roseau continue to play Warroad?
:arrow: Why does Warroad continue to play Roseau if they spank them all the time?
That is tradition! Some of the best games ever to watch.

The second best hockey I've ever watch is the year East and Hermantown took runner up a few years back. A week after they got back H-town and East players were on the ice together scrimmaging split into two teams... Randalph sitting upstairs watching, best talent on the ice all year...

[mnmouth]

I find it interesting how quick, intelligent individuals, can display a 3rd grader IQ. In my original post I was looking for much more of a productive discussion. See the reason this never gets resolved and is brought up year after year is because people take the discussion to the 3rd grade level of who has better landscape.

It makes no sense and I havent heard of a single excuse that is justified why the local HS Hockey teams wouldn't play each other. Even if Hermantown moved to AA I am sure there are reasons east groupies would come up with to not play them (Tradition?).
If it has something to do with the AD's at Marshall or Hermantown, then the AD's or coaches are idiots.

If AA or A means anything why does Roseau continue to play Warroad?
Why does Warroad continue to play Roseau if they spank them all the time?
That is tradition! Some of the best games ever to watch.

The second best hockey I've ever watch is the year East and Hermantown took runner up a few years back. A week after they got back H-town and East players were on the ice together scrimmaging split into two teams... Randalph sitting upstairs watching, best talent on the ice all year...

These threads nearly always deviate from the original topic. You should be used to it by now. Thanks for getting us back on track.

If what you seek are opinions and excuses that don't jive with what you want to hear, then you will find what you seek here.

If what you seek are the true reasons for why East does not play these teams, you likely will not find it here. Are their folks on this site with the true knowledge you seek? Probably. Are they giving this to us? Maybe. Now that I think about it, it is more likely, you will never find what you seek here.

Most of us understand the beauty of seeing Warroad and Roseau play. Most of us want East to play the other Duluth area teams. Proctor included - why not? Start some sort of online petition that states, in part, that fans want these games to occur. Ship it to all involved ADs, coaches and other admin. if you get a good number of people to sign it. Maybe then you and we will get games - not just answers.

And now that I think even more on it what you seek is probably contained within all the posts to this thread. No matter where they may lead.

[east hockey]

I find it interesting how quick, intelligent individuals, can display a 3rd grader IQ. In my original post I was looking for much more of a productive discussion. See the reason this never gets resolved and is brought up year after year is because people take the discussion to the 3rd grade level of who has better landscape.

It makes no sense and I havent heard of a single excuse that is justified why the local HS Hockey teams wouldn't play each other. Even if Hermantown moved to AA I am sure there are reasons east groupies would come up with to not play them (Tradition?).
If it has something to do with the AD's at Marshall or Hermantown, then the AD's or coaches are idiots.

If AA or A means anything why does Roseau continue to play Warroad?
Why does Warroad continue to play Roseau if they spank them all the time?
That is tradition! Some of the best games ever to watch.

The second best hockey I've ever watch is the year East and Hermantown took runner up a few years back. A week after they got back H-town and East players were on the ice together scrimmaging split into two teams... Randalph sitting upstairs watching, best talent on the ice all year...

There. 3rd grade enough for you?

Lee

[Froggy Richards]

I find it interesting how quick, intelligent individuals, can display a 3rd grader IQ. In my original post I was looking for much more of a productive discussion. See the reason this never gets resolved and is brought up year after year is because people take the discussion to the 3rd grade level of who has better landscape.

It makes no sense and I havent heard of a single excuse that is justified why the local HS Hockey teams wouldn't play each other. Even if Hermantown moved to AA I am sure there are reasons east groupies would come up with to not play them (Tradition?).
If it has something to do with the AD's at Marshall or Hermantown, then the AD's or coaches are idiots.

If AA or A means anything why does Roseau continue to play Warroad?
Why does Warroad continue to play Roseau if they spank them all the time?
That is tradition! Some of the best games ever to watch.

The second best hockey I've ever watch is the year East and Hermantown took runner up a few years back. A week after they got back H-town and East players were on the ice together scrimmaging split into two teams... Randalph sitting upstairs watching, best talent on the ice all year...

Sorry Bum, you're right. After all, we're here to resolve things like you said. You want East to play them? Fine, I'll make a couple of phone calls and make it happen. I should have the dates and times for you in a couple of days. I will post them here.

[pekyman]

Is there any way to get the actual attendance numbers of the section final games for Herm vs. Marshall and East vs. ER?
Wondering if the Class A section final will have anyway near the attendance that the AA final has.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Despite the wishes of the media, fans, and forum posters, these match-ups will not be regularly scheduled for the simple reason that neither team wants to risk the loss. Of course it's pride. It's also the public and hockey community perceptions that go into seeding, scheduling, etc. And lets not forget PRIDE. So important it deserves two mentions! What if East takes the championship after an early season scrimmage loss to Marshall? How many times will they have to hear "well you lost Hermantown in October" if they do? Somehow negating their title? Pride, public perception, and since these teams all feasibly pull from the same talent pool at least on some level, it's all about the money money.

[karl(east)]

East would absolutely play Hermantown if Hermantown went AA. (And I expect they will at some point, though it may take a few years.) Something that outsiders may not understand is the amount of pride there is in East being a AA program. (NTMH is right on the "pride" point.) While we realize we're not quite the same thing as an old Iron Range town, East often has to carry the banner of northern AA pride, and in many years is the only serious state title contender from anywhere north of Blaine. East spent much of the past decade small enough to be in Class A, but the idea that East would ever play Class A was laughable. This is something people in the East program take very seriously.

I know this might sound elitist, but in the late 90s and early 00s, East outgrew caring about who is the best team in the Duluth area. East success was no longer measured in LSC titles, which had become commonplace; it was measured in State Tourney success. When the LSC kicked East out, it wasn't hard for East to move on to other things. They embraced independent status, and I think this has proven good for the program--and by setting such a high standard, I think it's probably helped some of East's neighbors, too. Right or not, East is happy with this status quo, and also doesn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone. We've already done that, and the fixation on all things East from our neighbors only reinforces that sense.

If Hermantown keeps up its success, they too may soon outgrow caring about things like the LSC. Right now they're in a very good place; they dominate most of Class A but still (in the eyes of many) play David to the Goliaths of St. Thomas and Breck, and they have a lot of depth, but not enough that they have to cut people or leave them otherwise jilted for playing time. They also enjoy the services of a beloved coach who no one really questions inside the organization.

That puts Hermantown in a very different place from Duluth East. But all of those things are likely to change in the coming years. It's not hard to see them arriving at some point in the next decade, though, and when they do, they'll have some decisions to make. We don't know how high their ceiling is yet, or what other factors might come into play. (And I'm not saying Hermantown should opt up right away--you've got to look out for yourself, and do what you think is best for your program. I'm just saying that, when you make it big and start to measure yourself by different standards--as anyone should want to do--you also encounter new obstacles, and start caring about new things.)

The east side of Duluth isn't growing much, but it also hasn't grown much for the past 20 years, yet hasn't had any trouble sustaining a great program. There is still plenty of money here, and many of its neighborhoods and outlying townships (where there is some room for development) remain desirable places to live. So long as people do their jobs, East will be East. It's no guarantee, and it will require a strong successor to Mike Randolph when that day comes, but this East fan isn't too worried.

If someone else wants to call themselves the best team in the area, fine, whatever. It doesn't really matter at this point; East has its own championship to play for, and it's up to you to decide what your goals are. But if you want to step up and help carry the torch of northern AA hockey? Awesome. Game on.

[Slammer]

Boom and Karl nails it right on the head!

[Froggy Richards]

East would absolutely play Hermantown if Hermantown went AA. (And I expect they will at some point, though it may take a few years.) Something that outsiders may not understand is the amount of pride there is in East being a AA program. (NTMH is right on the "pride" point.) While we realize we're not quite the same thing as an old Iron Range town, East often has to carry the banner of northern AA pride, and in many years is the only serious state title contender from anywhere north of Blaine. East spent much of the past decade small enough to be in Class A, but the idea that East would ever play Class A was laughable. This is something people in the East program take very seriously.

I know this might sound elitist, but in the late 90s and early 00s, East outgrew caring about who is the best team in the Duluth area. East success was no longer measured in LSC titles, which had become commonplace; it was measured in State Tourney success. When the LSC kicked East out, it wasn't hard for East to move on to other things. They embraced independent status, and I think this has proven good for the program--and by setting such a high standard, I think it's probably helped some of East's neighbors, too. Right or not, East is happy with this status quo, and also doesn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone. We've already done that, and the fixation on all things East from our neighbors only reinforces that sense.

If Hermantown keeps up its success, they too may soon outgrow caring about things like the LSC. Right now they're in a very good place; they dominate most of Class A but still (in the eyes of many) play David to the Goliaths of St. Thomas and Breck, and they have a lot of depth, but not enough that they have to cut people or leave them otherwise jilted for playing time. They also enjoy the services of a beloved coach who no one really questions inside the organization.

That puts Hermantown in a very different place from Duluth East. But all of those things are likely to change in the coming years. It's not hard to see them arriving at some point in the next decade, though, and when they do, they'll have some decisions to make. We don't know how high their ceiling is yet, or what other factors might come into play. (And I'm not saying Hermantown should opt up right away--you've got to look out for yourself, and do what you think is best for your program. I'm just saying that, when you make it big and start to measure yourself by different standards--as anyone should want to do--you also encounter new obstacles, and start caring about new things.)

The east side of Duluth isn't growing much, but it also hasn't grown much for the past 20 years, yet hasn't had any trouble sustaining a great program. There is still plenty of money here, and many of its neighborhoods and outlying townships (where there is some room for development) remain desirable places to live. So long as people do their jobs, East will be East. It's no guarantee, and it will require a strong successor to Mike Randolph when that day comes, but this East fan isn't too worried.

If someone else wants to call themselves the best team in the area, fine, whatever. It doesn't really matter at this point; East has its own championship to play for, and it's up to you to decide what your goals are. But if you want to step up and help carry the torch of northern AA hockey? Awesome. Game on.

If that's true then the obvious question is why do they play Denfeld every year? Denfeld is Class A and has beaten them ONE time since 1995. Hermantown would certainly give them a better game year in and year out. So why play an A team that can only compete once in twenty years and not a program that might actually win a few times?

[Slammer]

East would absolutely play Hermantown if Hermantown went AA. (And I expect they will at some point, though it may take a few years.) Something that outsiders may not understand is the amount of pride there is in East being a AA program. (NTMH is right on the "pride" point.) While we realize we're not quite the same thing as an old Iron Range town, East often has to carry the banner of northern AA pride, and in many years is the only serious state title contender from anywhere north of Blaine. East spent much of the past decade small enough to be in Class A, but the idea that East would ever play Class A was laughable. This is something people in the East program take very seriously.

I know this might sound elitist, but in the late 90s and early 00s, East outgrew caring about who is the best team in the Duluth area. East success was no longer measured in LSC titles, which had become commonplace; it was measured in State Tourney success. When the LSC kicked East out, it wasn't hard for East to move on to other things. They embraced independent status, and I think this has proven good for the program--and by setting such a high standard, I think it's probably helped some of East's neighbors, too. Right or not, East is happy with this status quo, and also doesn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone. We've already done that, and the fixation on all things East from our neighbors only reinforces that sense.

If Hermantown keeps up its success, they too may soon outgrow caring about things like the LSC. Right now they're in a very good place; they dominate most of Class A but still (in the eyes of many) play David to the Goliaths of St. Thomas and Breck, and they have a lot of depth, but not enough that they have to cut people or leave them otherwise jilted for playing time. They also enjoy the services of a beloved coach who no one really questions inside the organization.

That puts Hermantown in a very different place from Duluth East. But all of those things are likely to change in the coming years. It's not hard to see them arriving at some point in the next decade, though, and when they do, they'll have some decisions to make. We don't know how high their ceiling is yet, or what other factors might come into play. (And I'm not saying Hermantown should opt up right away--you've got to look out for yourself, and do what you think is best for your program. I'm just saying that, when you make it big and start to measure yourself by different standards--as anyone should want to do--you also encounter new obstacles, and start caring about new things.)

The east side of Duluth isn't growing much, but it also hasn't grown much for the past 20 years, yet hasn't had any trouble sustaining a great program. There is still plenty of money here, and many of its neighborhoods and outlying townships (where there is some room for development) remain desirable places to live. So long as people do their jobs, East will be East. It's no guarantee, and it will require a strong successor to Mike Randolph when that day comes, but this East fan isn't too worried.

If someone else wants to call themselves the best team in the area, fine, whatever. It doesn't really matter at this point; East has its own championship to play for, and it's up to you to decide what your goals are. But if you want to step up and help carry the torch of northern AA hockey? Awesome. Game on.

If that's true then the obvious question is why do they play Denfeld every year? Denfeld is Class A and has beaten them ONE time since 1995. Hermantown would certainly give them a better game year in and year out. So why play an A team that can only compete once in twenty years and not a program that might actually win a few times?

Denfeld is Easts cross town rival in every single sport

[MNHockeyFan]

Denfeld is Easts cross town rival in every single sport

Not to mention in hockey they are a sure bet to always add one to their win column...AND they are no threat to attract their good players, like Hermantown and Marshall.

[karl(east)]

Denfeld is Easts cross town rival in every single sport

Not to mention in hockey they are a sure bet to always add one to their win column...AND they are no threat to attract their good players, like Hermantown and Marshall.

The school district requires that they play.

It's also probably not coincidental that the two local non-AA teams that they do play (Denfeld and Superior) are the two that support East's re-admission to the LSC.

[MNHockeyFan]

The school district requires that they play.

It's also probably not coincidental that the two local non-AA teams that they do play (Denfeld and Superior) are the two that support East's re-admission to the LSC.

Thanks for the clarification. It's just too bad that the biggest losers in all this are the fans. You are too young, but when I lived there there many years ago were some tremendous battles between Duluth East and Duluth Cathedral, played in front of packed houses and screaming fans on both sides. It was a great rivalry and really raised the profile of high school hockey in the city. I just think it's a shame that politics and old grudges ended up hurting the game in the local community.

[karl(east)]

The school district requires that they play.

It's also probably not coincidental that the two local non-AA teams that they do play (Denfeld and Superior) are the two that support East's re-admission to the LSC.

Thanks for the clarification. It's just too bad that the biggest losers in all this are the fans. You are too young, but when I lived there there many years ago were some tremendous battles between Duluth East and Duluth Cathedral, played in front of packed houses and screaming fans on both sides. It was a great rivalry and really raised the profile of high school hockey in the city. I just think it's a shame that politics and old grudges ended up hurting the game in the local community.

I don't disagree (though I think that whether two games are played at the HS level is very far down on the list of things that help/hurt Duluth area hockey). In a perfect world they'd all play, and it'd be a lot of fun...but, well, we don't live in a perfect world. And I think there are still plenty of reasons to respect and appreciate all these programs on their own merits.

[HockeyBum]

Karl well written, I like the thought of striving for bigger things, again well put.

[GPGT]

I'm just wondering how long we will have to wait to see another '96, '98, 2012 like team from east. Doesn't look to promising .. IMO in 2012 , Jakes senior year was one of the best HS teams I have ever seen and so fun to watch.

[Houndhockey]

Karl nailed it. As an East fan, we don't care about playing in the LSC, or about people wanting to have a debate about who the best team is in the Duluth area. We have bigger things to worry about. Namely making it to state, and winning championships. It has got to the point where while I would love to see East play Hermantown and Marshall on a yearly basis, I wouldn't want to sacrifice many games from the schedule. We play teams like Eden Prairie, WBL, Maple Grove, Minnetonka it seems quite often and I wouldn't want to get rid of those games. The only teams we seem to play that I would be willing to cut off are Tartan and Hopkins. We need the sectional games to be relevant in 7AA and also need those tough tests from the metro teams during the season so when/if we make it state we have faced some of the better competition already. Like Karl said, Hermantown is definitely on the rise and it seems to be just a matter of time before they opt up and then they would play DE on a yearly basis, but for now, its not happening since they don't support East's readmission into the LSC and the whole pride thing.

[Froggy Richards]

Karl nailed it. As an East fan, we don't care about playing in the LSC, or about people wanting to have a debate about who the best team is in the Duluth area. We have bigger things to worry about. Namely making it to state, and winning championships. It has got to the point where while I would love to see East play Hermantown and Marshall on a yearly basis, I wouldn't want to sacrifice many games from the schedule. We play teams like Eden Prairie, WBL, Maple Grove, Minnetonka it seems quite often and I wouldn't want to get rid of those games. The only teams we seem to play that I would be willing to cut off are Tartan and Hopkins. We need the sectional games to be relevant in 7AA and also need those tough tests from the metro teams during the season so when/if we make it state we have faced some of the better competition already. Like Karl said, Hermantown is definitely on the rise and it seems to be just a matter of time before they opt up and then they would play DE on a yearly basis, but for now, its not happening since they don't support East's readmission into the LSC and the whole pride thing.

It's also probably not coincidental that the two local non-AA teams that they do play (Denfeld and Superior) are the two that support East's re-admission to the LSC.[/quote]

So do they care about playing in the LSC or not?

[Houndhockey]

Karl nailed it. As an East fan, we don't care about playing in the LSC, or about people wanting to have a debate about who the best team is in the Duluth area. We have bigger things to worry about. Namely making it to state, and winning championships. It has got to the point where while I would love to see East play Hermantown and Marshall on a yearly basis, I wouldn't want to sacrifice many games from the schedule. We play teams like Eden Prairie, WBL, Maple Grove, Minnetonka it seems quite often and I wouldn't want to get rid of those games. The only teams we seem to play that I would be willing to cut off are Tartan and Hopkins. We need the sectional games to be relevant in 7AA and also need those tough tests from the metro teams during the season so when/if we make it state we have faced some of the better competition already. Like Karl said, Hermantown is definitely on the rise and it seems to be just a matter of time before they opt up and then they would play DE on a yearly basis, but for now, its not happening since they don't support East's readmission into the LSC and the whole pride thing.

It's also probably not coincidental that the two local non-AA teams that they do play (Denfeld and Superior) are the two that support East's re-admission to the LSC.[/quote]

So do they care about playing in the LSC or not?

As Karl noted, East vs Denfeld is a mandatory thing yearly by the school board. I guess I could give up Superior too. That would make room for one of the teams. But, I still would say they aren't exactly concerned with playing ALL the LSC teams. They already play Cloquet twice annually because of being in the same section. They play Denfeld as noted and Superior, it's really just Marshall, Htown, and Proctor they aren't playing.
Honestly, like I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't mind them playing those two, but I would still rather they be independent, giving them the freedom to schedule whoever on a yearly basis as it has been.

[alcloseshaver]

Something to consider is that the NW Suburban is adding 3 teams and will have more conference games next year limiting non-conference games. This might open up more dates for East. They will play at ER next year as part of a 2 year contract. The NW Sub. is still working on scheduling and may only play some teams once. This reduction might open a date for East to play the Hawks if parties are willing?