Saving The Coliseum

ZachHalverson · Post by **ZachHalverson** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:51 pm

The Coliseum era will end tonight. It sucks. My thoughts on the matter can be read at http://minnesotahockeymag.com/2014/01/2 ... ove-story/

I heard yesterday that there was talk about some government money going the way of the Coliseum to keep it running. Feel free to expand on this if you know anything more about it.

I'd like to know the real story about why there was no effort by the State Fair people to save the Coliseum. Was it money? Was it the replacement time? Do they think they can make more money in the winter without hockey?

All I know is that Minnesota hockey will be losing a big piece of its history tonight. Unless we do something about it.

BlueLineSpecial · Post by **BlueLineSpecial** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:03 pm

I don't understand closing its doors for hockey. They aren't ripping the thing down, so it has to be a money issue. Maybe they think they can host more car shows, expos, etc. there in the winter to generate more money?

It's an atrocious dump, but there isn't another place like it. It works perfectly for these section games. I know they have open skate and available ice rental time, but that must not be generating enough to keep it going.

I can't make it to the games tonight due to a previous obligation. So forward any last photos on of tonight's action.

ZachHalverson · Post by **ZachHalverson** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:15 pm

Ideas to increase ice time use at the Coliseum and revenue!

Coliseum Classic
-4 of the top AA Teams seeded 1-4, two games on Friday night 6:00 and 8:00
-3rd place game on Saturday night at 6:00, Championship at 8:00

Schwan Cup
I'd much rather go to the Schwan Cup and NOT have to pay for parking! Why can't the Coliseum host the Schwan Cup?

Section Team Games
Make a deal with Section 3AA, 4AA, and 5AA that says if you play your championship game at the Coliseum, you are required to have three regular season games a year involving two section teams played at the Coliseum. White Bear Lake and Hill-Murray, Blaine and Centennial, North St. Paul and Irondale, Maple Grove and Anoka, STA and Eagan. Do it every Saturday afternoon throughout the regular season.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:28 pm

Blaine has played their last regular season game there at least the last two years. So that idea isn't that far out of the question.

DubCHAGuy · Post by **DubCHAGuy** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:42 pm

Anyone know where 3AA, 4AA, and 5AA will play after this year? I think Ridder would be the best choice for any metro section, but probably wouldn't be big enough for a doubleheader of section finals.

stpaul · Post by **stpaul** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:43 pm

I heard on one of the broadcasts that 4AA will be at Aldrich. The semifinals will be on 2 different nights and matched with a 4A semifinal.

defense · Post by **defense** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:08 pm

If I remember one of the initial stories about ending ice there,it was about the cost of rreplacing the ice equipment VS how much it is being used. Not necessarily just the financial feasibility alone.

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:19 am

Nothing seemed wrong with the ice tonight at the Coliseum, looked good and hard, no soft spots...I question if blaming the ice cooling system isn't just a scapegoat for some other reason. Sad to see it come to an end, sections 3,4 and 5 will never feel the same. Coliseum has some of the best concessions too, blows Mariucci away!!

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:07 am

Well, if it's like most such scenarios, it'll be torn down.

And then a couple years will pass, and there will be a huge cry of "we need more ice !", (from the same folks who wanted this torn down) with the resulting passing of a multimillion dollar bond issue.......

East Side Pioneer Guy · Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:32 am

stpaul wrote:I heard on one of the broadcasts that 4AA will be at Aldrich. The semifinals will be on 2 different nights and matched with a 4A semifinal.

I'm highly skeptical of that. Last night's crowd was smaller than a Hill-WBL final, and there is now way it would have fit into Aldrich. And that's if it's the only game. Throwing in a class A final would be disastrous, for the class A schools. Given the seating constraints, large numbers of AA fans would show up before the start of the first game (presumably class A) and prevent most class A fans from even getting in at all.

I think if the final were HM-WBL, the number of fans denied entrance may cause a melee, a fracas, if not a riot. Seriously, a large contingent of law enforcement would need to be on hand to control lines forming long before the doors are opened. Advance sales at the schools may seel out the game before hand.

And for the last time, Ridder and Aldrich are nearly the same capacity. Check Rinkfinder to see.

defense · Post by **defense** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:40 am

puckbreath wrote:Well, if it's like most such scenarios, it'll be torn down.

And then a couple years will pass, and there will be a huge cry of "we need more ice !", (from the same folks who wanted this torn down) with the resulting passing of a multimillion dollar bond issue.......

doubt it. not when hockey is not its main purpose.

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:49 pm

The closing of the Coliseum has nothing to do with lack of ice rentals - they are pretty much booked up solid from November thru February. The issue is strictly the equipment. The ice was in great condition this year, and might very well be in great condition next year if it remained open. The problem is the uncertainty of when the equipment will inevitably fail. They can't "roll the dice" and hope it remains operational all season, else the associations/teams that rent ice will be in a world of hurt when the equipment does fail. Imagine if the equipment had crapped out in the last few weeks - what would they have done with all of the playoff games in the last week? You can't just simply move them to another arena on the drop of a hat.

To replace the equipment, it would cost upwards of a million $$. Plus they would have to leave the arena closed for one full Winter to upgrade the equipment. Meaning a) lost revenue from a full season of rentals and b) displacing the teams/associations for a year, some of which could possibly find another permanent home due to the disruption, meaning there's no guarantee that the Coliseum/State Fair would have permanent tenants going forward.

Also, the Coliseum will not be torn down. It will remain in use for trade shows and, of course, the State Fair.

I'm as disappointed as the next guy to be losing such a storied arena, but totally understand the reasoning. It's the nature of the ice arena business.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:12 pm

Eagles93, nice summary of the financial issues surrounding the closing, which as you said are twofold, first the actual cost of replacing the equipment and second, the cost of the downtime while it's being replaced. One of the neighborhood papers has a good article at http://www.parkbugle.org/21311/ that echoes your points.

That said, I am still upset at the closing. I don't like the way the State Fair handled it and this rink is unique to the metro area and difficult to replace. As the article from the Bugle noted there are many hockey organizations that use the rink and now have to scramble to find ice time for next year.

The State Fair didn't announce the closing till December and in waiting till the last minute ignored any community concerns that result from closing it. The article says that this decision had been in the cards for a long time, so why didn't this come up sooner so that the communities, MSHSL, etc. would have a chance to try to work something out? It would cost millions of dollars to build a similar arena from scratch so $1-1.5m plus paying the Fair for the downtime would be a bargain.

So next year, Como Park and the Hamline women's team have to find a new place to play, youth programs will scramble for ice time and the MSHSL needs to come up with a new plan for sections. In my eyes, the State Fair falls short of being a good community citizen in not giving any consideration to these issues.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:14 pm

There's another good article in the Bugle that has some historical information about the Coliseum and the guy who put in the ice at http://www.parkbugle.org/meet-the-man-w ... -coliseum/

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:20 pm

Eagles....what do you think helped with the great ice this year??? 50+ days below zero!! Any other winter that place has the slowest ice in town. And it gets worse when the stands are full for 2 games.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:25 pm

Rant about the State Fair aside, I think I've got a good idea for how the MSHSL could handle the section finals in future years with the Coliseum toast.

Apparently back in the day the metro finals were held in an all day affair at the Met Center so my plan would go back to that setup. I would suggest that the MSHSL package the five metro section finals together, holding one on Friday night and then two sessions of two games apiece on Saturday, much like the Thursday quarters for the State Tournament. They could go to the Excel, Target Center and Mariucci and have them submit bids and go with the place that gives them the best deal. This could be a nice windfall too for businesses in the city that gets the event.

This would make the Saturday before the tourney an event, kind of a mini-tourney with a lot of the same feel that the Thursday quarterfinals have. Unfortunately, with no more free Fair parking and tickets likely being more expensive it would make it pricier for fans but it would probably be more fun than the current setup.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Don't like the Mariucci idea. Big sheet stinks.

Nuts&Bolts · Post by **Nuts&Bolts** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:39 pm

Aldrich regardless of capacity concerns if the stars align and two teams drawing big make the finals. No doubleheaders involving A or another AA section. Each school gets an allotted number of tickets for pre-sale and all extras go on sale a couple hours before the game. Tough luck if you don't get in. The powers that be can make the decision to webstream all these games and charge $8 for access so anybody can see the game. Free parking and good atmosphere in the city of Hill Murray. Things change some for the good and some not so much. Saying good bye to the Coliseum with its tradition kind of stinks but really the place was a dim dump and not the best atmosphere with the rink separated from the stands.

Puckguy19 · Post by **Puckguy19** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:06 pm

ChrisK wrote:Rant about the State Fair aside, I think I've got a good idea for how the MSHSL could handle the section finals in future years with the Coliseum toast.

Apparently back in the day the metro finals were held in an all day affair at the Met Center so my plan would go back to that setup. I would suggest that the MSHSL package the five metro section finals together, holding one on Friday night and then two sessions of two games apiece on Saturday, much like the Thursday quarters for the State Tournament. They could go to the Excel, Target Center and Mariucci and have them submit bids and go with the place that gives them the best deal. This could be a nice windfall too for businesses in the city that gets the event.

This would make the Saturday before the tourney an event, kind of a mini-tourney with a lot of the same feel that the Thursday quarterfinals have. Unfortunately, with no more free Fair parking and tickets likely being more expensive it would make it pricier for fans but it would probably be more fun than the current setup.

Interesting thoughts, but a couple of concerns come to mind, with the X. First kicking the Wild out three weekends in a row. Second, the "advantage" schools may have in playing their sectional final at the same site as the state tournament.

With the format, it may be tough getting coaches to agree to extending the sections until Friday and Saturday. Friday games, currently the latest they are played, are already more the exception than the rule.

DubCHAGuy · Post by **DubCHAGuy** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:31 pm

I think the X and Target Center are way too big for section games. It would kill the atmosphere. Even 2AA/6AA at its best was getting around 7,500 for a doubleheader, lately they have been around 5,000.

Mariucci is really the only option left for doubleheaders, and that isn't the best atmosphere. I still think Ridder (3,400) would be great for any AA section with just one game. The coliseum really was the perfect size.

barry_mcconnell · Post by **barry_mcconnell** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:32 pm

Coliseum capacity - 5,200
Aldrich - 3,400
Braemar - 3,600
Ridder - 3,400
BIG - 2,500

The non-doubleheader section final games rarely fill more than half the seats at Coliseum. I look forward to a jam packed final game at a place like Aldrich or Ridder.

The acoustics at the Coliseum are so bad. And no fans are within 30ft of the ice sheet. Even some of the most exciting games in that place just feel dead.

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:39 pm

Completely disagree, Coliseum though old has alot of charm and great sight lines to the rink, no better place for sections, period.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:44 pm

A couple of thoughts. Do you really think the MSHSL wants to hold finals that could draw in excess of the capacity of Aldrich, et al at those rinks? I think they'd want to give everyone who wants to attend the opportunity to see those games. Plus if the finals are held at Aldrich, et al they will have to be one-off games and that would stretch things out timewise or require same day finals to be held at different locations.

I understand the "advantage" argument for holding the section finals at the X, so the outstate teams would have to agree to have the metro section finals there. In regards to the Wild losing a weekend, don't they already hold the wrestling tournament there in between the girls and boys tourneys? I would guess the X might be prohibitively expensive anyway.

I don't understand the coaches reticence to hold the finals on Friday/Saturday, players wouldn't have to worry about school the next morning like they do for Wednesday and Thursday finals. In addition, attendance might be better because it would be on the weekend. I think you'd also get more casual fans there too since it would be an easy opportunity to catch all the finals in one place.

ZachHalverson · Post by **ZachHalverson** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:45 pm

barry_mcconnell wrote:Coliseum capacity - 5,200
Aldrich - 3,400
Braemar - 3,600
Ridder - 3,400
BIG - 2,500

The non-doubleheader section final games rarely fill more than half the seats at Coliseum. I look forward to a jam packed final game at a place like Aldrich or Ridder.

The acoustics at the Coliseum are so bad. And no fans are within 30ft of the ice sheet. Even some of the most exciting games in that place just feel dead.

I'm sorry you didn't feel the atmosphere and excitement that thousands of others did. I never felt a "dead" building in any game I saw there. It was an amazing venue perfect for the Section semis and finals.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:50 pm

ZachHalverson wrote:
barry_mcconnell wrote:Coliseum capacity - 5,200
Aldrich - 3,400
Braemar - 3,600
Ridder - 3,400
BIG - 2,500

The non-doubleheader section final games rarely fill more than half the seats at Coliseum. I look forward to a jam packed final game at a place like Aldrich or Ridder.

The acoustics at the Coliseum are so bad. And no fans are within 30ft of the ice sheet. Even some of the most exciting games in that place just feel dead.
I'm sorry you didn't feel the atmosphere and excitement that thousands of others did. I never felt a "dead" building in any game I saw there. It was an amazing venue perfect for the Section semis and finals.

You obviously never saw a Como Park game there

When I first started going to the Coliseum I felt the way Barry did but I've grown to love the place and when it's full it rocks. It had a great last minute of hockey last night as Hill tried desperately to tie that game up, the tension in that building was thick enough to cut with a knife.