Contenders for state tournament participation

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grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Contenders for state tournament participation

Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Here is a theory I have for teams to be considered a contender for state tournament. I have been monitoring this theory for the last five or six years and it has been consistently correct.

To be considered a contender the team needs to be ranked in the LPH magazine at some point in the year. Many different places have ranking systems and such, but the rankings fluctuate frequently when there is a big game or someone goes on a bad run for a week. LPH does not have as much fluctuation in my opinion. When looking at section playoff games the LPH ranked teams win vs non ranked teams and the ranked teams make section semifinals 90% or even a couple points higher. The only time ranked teams lose prior to semifinals is when they are playing other ranked teams. There is usually each year one ranked team that does lose.

Then from there the teams that defeat the ranked teams are added to the contenders. So a victory vs a ranked team at the time you beat them makes you a contender. Those teams are then watched for win loss record vs the ranked clubs . Once you figure this out you have seven out of eight sections included . This year it is all eight sections. If a section does not have a ranked team in the section then the team who has beaten a ranked team consistently wins that section.

For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows
Section 1 3 teams
Section 2. 4 teams
Section 3. 6 teams
Section 4. 5 teams
Section 5. 4 teams
Section 6 7 teams
Section 7. 5 teams
Sections 8. 3 teams

For class A there is 31 teams included
Section 1 4 teams
Sections 2 6 teams
Section 3 1 team
Section 4 3 teams
Section 5 1 team
Sections 6 6 teams
Sections 7 4 teams
Section 8. 5 teamsImage
Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

List of teams FYI

Class AA

LPH rankings
1 lakeville north
2 Edina
3 St Thomas
4 Hill Murray
5. elk River
6. Eden Prairie
7. Blaine
8. Wayzata
9. Minnetonka
10. BSM
11. WBL
12 Bemidji
13 Burnsville
14. CDH
15. Holy Family
16. Prior Lake
17. Moorhead
18. Farmington
19. Lakeville South
20. Stillwater

Ranked at one time but not currently
Hopkins
Duluth east
Andover
Centennial
Maple grove
Grand Rapids

Teams that have beaten ranked teams during season
Roseau
Eagan
Forest lake
Armstrong
Mounds view
Roseville
Anoka
East ridge
East view
Bloom Jeff
Rose mount
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

List of teams class A

LPH ranking
1 Hermantown
2 EGF
3 mahtomedi
4. Breck
5. Duluth Marshall
6. Alexandria
7. St. Paul academy
8 duluth denfeld
9 Delano
10. TRF
11. Fergus falls
12. St. Cloud Apollo
13. St. Cloud cath
14. Warroad
15. Orono
16. Hibbing
17. New Prague
18. Sartell
19. Detroit lakes
20. Bloom Kennedy


Teams ranked at sometime this season
Luverne
Blake
Spring lake
Totino grace
Mankato west

Teams that have beaten ranked team
Northfield
Roch Lourdes
Crooks ton
Little falls
green4
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Post by green4 »

I don't know how you got 6 contenders for section 3AA, that could be the most unbalanced section in AA this year.
Also not sure why you have Armstrong as a legit contender, they have one good win, but are still below .500 despite playing teams like irondale, coon Rapids and MInneapolis.
Maybe they can win one game in sections, but having them beat 3 teams seems nearly impossible.

It's too vague in my opinion to be a theory. You have half the AA teams as contenders. I mean all this told me was that Woodbury or Champlin does not have a chance this year, maybe cut the list in half.
The way I look at it is this: good teams get ranked, good teams typically make section semifinals and finals, there isn't really a science to it.
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Section 3
Saint Thomas ranked 3
CDH ranked 14
Eagen won section last year
East ridge 1-2-1 vs ranked teams
Eastview 2-8 vs ranked
Rose mount 3-7 vs ranked

That is why I contend there are several contenders.

I agree I could probably take teams that have sections with two or more ranked clubs in them. The teams that have defeated a ranked team in that situation would need to win two games vs ranked clubs. But there are also sections where you would only have to beat one ranked team to make a state tourney. Section 5 and section 7 in class AA. In class A there is section 1, section 5, and section 3.
green4
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Post by green4 »

grandmeadowhockeyfan wrote:Section 3
Saint Thomas ranked 3
CDH ranked 14
Eagen won section last year
East ridge 1-2-1 vs ranked teams
Eastview 2-8 vs ranked
Rose mount 3-7 vs ranked

That is why I contend there are several contenders
Don't take this the wrong way but, I think you are a bit too loose with the word contender. Using section 3AA for example I would say STA and probably CDH are contenders for going to state. Eastview perhaps, but I would consider them a dark horse from the section. The other 3 you have are all below .500 with Eagan being no where close at 5-14-1. If any of these teams were to make it to the section finals I would say they are more of a Cinderella or underdog team then a contender.
hockey9011
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Post by hockey9011 »

green4 wrote:
grandmeadowhockeyfan wrote:Section 3
Saint Thomas ranked 3
CDH ranked 14
Eagen won section last year
East ridge 1-2-1 vs ranked teams
Eastview 2-8 vs ranked
Rose mount 3-7 vs ranked

That is why I contend there are several contenders
Don't take this the wrong way but, I think you are a bit too loose with the word contender. Using section 3AA for example I would say STA and probably CDH are contenders for going to state. Eastview perhaps, but I would consider them a dark horse from the section. The other 3 you have are all below .500 with Eagan being no where close at 5-14-1. If any of these teams were to make it to the section finals I would say they are more of a Cinderella or underdog team then a contender.
its a good idea to mess with but i agree with green. Although Little Falls does have one win over a ranked team, St. Cloud Cathedral, the chances for them to win 3 straight games against ranked teams which is what they would have to do to win 6A are slim to none. I think there has got to be a way to trim the list down to "contenders" and not just someone who might steal a game in the QF.
elliott70
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Post by elliott70 »

con·tend·er noun \-ˈten-dər\

: a person who tries to win something in a contest; especially : a person who has a good chance of winning
elliott70
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Post by elliott70 »

Contenders in 8AA are Bemidji and Moorhead.

there is a chance that a some one else (Buffalo or Roseau) could win, but not a good chance.
elliott70
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Post by elliott70 »

For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows

But contenders in reality:
Section 1 3 teams - 1 team
Section 2. 4 teams - 1
Section 3. 6 teams - 2
Section 4. 5 teams -2
Section 5. 4 teams -3
Section 6 7 teams - 5
Section 7. 5 teams - 5
Sections 8. 3 teams - 2
Traxler
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Post by Traxler »

elliott70 wrote:For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows

But contenders in reality:
Section 1 3 teams - 1 team
Section 2. 4 teams - 1
Section 3. 6 teams - 2
Section 4. 5 teams -2
Section 5. 4 teams -3
Section 6 7 teams - 5
Section 7. 5 teams - 5
Sections 8. 3 teams - 2
There are only 4 in 7AA. We all know who they are.
elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 »

Traxler wrote:
elliott70 wrote:For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows

But contenders in reality:
Section 1 3 teams - 1 team
Section 2. 4 teams - 1
Section 3. 6 teams - 2
Section 4. 5 teams -2
Section 5. 4 teams -3
Section 6 7 teams - 5
Section 7. 5 teams - 5
Sections 8. 3 teams - 2
There are only 4 in 7AA. We all know who they are.
Reworked it and still get 5
ER, GR, CEC, StMA, FL
five teams....
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

My list has another aspect to it. The higher numbers includes the upstarts that start winning several games vs ranked teams. Think about upset specials also. Last year I had centennial and Stillwater on the list. How about breck losing last year? These kind of upset specials can spring up every year. Just a thought.
elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Post by elliott70 »

grandmeadowhockeyfan wrote:My list has another aspect to it. The higher numbers includes the upstarts that start winning several games vs ranked teams. Think about upset specials also. Last year I had centennial and Stillwater on the list. How about breck losing last year? These kind of upset specials can spring up every year. Just a thought.
And its a good thought.
Flip side is these are upsets, not good chance at winning.
We should have a thread, 'who is likely to upset someone in sections'.
Traxler
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Post by Traxler »

elliott70 wrote:
Traxler wrote:
elliott70 wrote:For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows

But contenders in reality:
Section 1 3 teams - 1 team
Section 2. 4 teams - 1
Section 3. 6 teams - 2
Section 4. 5 teams -2
Section 5. 4 teams -3
Section 6 7 teams - 5
Section 7. 5 teams - 5
Sections 8. 3 teams - 2
There are only 4 in 7AA. We all know who they are.
Reworked it and still get 5
ER, GR, CEC, StMA, FL
five teams....
You crack me up, Elliott. :)
crw
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Post by crw »

elliott70 wrote:
Traxler wrote:
elliott70 wrote:For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows

But contenders in reality:
Section 1 3 teams - 1 team
Section 2. 4 teams - 1
Section 3. 6 teams - 2
Section 4. 5 teams -2
Section 5. 4 teams -3
Section 6 7 teams - 5
Section 7. 5 teams - 5
Sections 8. 3 teams - 2
There are only 4 in 7AA. We all know who they are.
Reworked it and still get 5
ER, GR, CEC, StMA, FL
five teams....
:D

Now that's funny stuff right there...lol
almostashappy
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Post by almostashappy »

grandmeadowhockeyfan wrote:Section 3
Saint Thomas ranked 3
CDH ranked 14
Eagen won section last year
East ridge 1-2-1 vs ranked teams
Eastview 2-8 vs ranked
Rose mount 3-7 vs ranked

That is why I contend there are several contenders.

I agree I could probably take teams that have sections with two or more ranked clubs in them. The teams that have defeated a ranked team in that situation would need to win two games vs ranked clubs. But there are also sections where you would only have to beat one ranked team to make a state tourney. Section 5 and section 7 in class AA. In class A there is section 1, section 5, and section 3.
I won an award last year for "Best Homer," and even I can tell you that Eagan (unfortunately) is not going to be a 3AA contender this year. They've still got some work to do if they want to avoid hosting the play-in game against Park. First bit of work is tomorrow when they travel to Hastings.

Section seedings are going to be a free-for-all mess this year. After STA and CDH, next best record is Eastview at 11-10.
Two minutes for...embellishment (ding!)
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

The system that I am proposing eliminates half the teams from contention. When the season begins there are roughly 64 teams in class AA. After two or three LPH rankings you have roughly 24 teams that have been ranked. Every week or so there is an upset with a ranked team. So after about ten weeks we add about ten teams to contenders.

The idea that an unranked team that defeats a ranked team has to most likely defeat two ranked teams in a section so a team should have to beat two ranked teams to become a competitor . There are sections with one ranked team and in those sections a team might only need one victory vs ranked team.

After about ten weeks we are now down to 37 teams on my list. I could cut it down to 25 or so if I use the two victories vs ranked teams to be a competitor.
I might need to change the word for relevant teams not competitors. Relevant teams would be teams that can make it to semifinals or maybe the finals in the section. Relevant could also be used because that could mean a team could defeat a ranked team in the playoffs.

When people only list the twenty teams they are basically listing the ranked teams give of take a few. There are a sprinkling of other teams that could be contenders. There are more than 20 teams competing for a state tourney entry, I gaurantee there will be one team that was not ranked the last week of the season.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a theory I have for teams to be considered a contender for state tournament. I have been monitoring this theory for the last five or six years and it has been consistently correct.

To be considered a contender the team needs to be ranked in the LPH magazine at some point in the year. Many different places have ranking systems and such, but the rankings fluctuate frequently when there is a big game or someone goes on a bad run for a week. LPH does not have as much fluctuation in my opinion. When looking at section playoff games the LPH ranked teams win vs non ranked teams and the ranked teams make section semifinals 90% or even a couple points higher. The only time ranked teams lose prior to semifinals is when they are playing other ranked teams. There is usually each year one ranked team that does lose.

Then from there the teams that defeat the ranked teams are added to the contenders. So a victory vs a ranked team at the time you beat them makes you a contender. Those teams are then watched for win loss record vs the ranked clubs . Once you figure this out you have seven out of eight sections included . This year it is all eight sections. If a section does not have a ranked team in the section then the team who has beaten a ranked team consistently wins that section.

For class AA we have. 37 teams included in this list. The section breakdowns go as follows
Section 1 3 teams
Section 2. 4 teams
Section 3. 6 teams
Section 4. 5 teams
Section 5. 4 teams
Section 6 7 teams
Section 7. 5 teams
Sections 8. 3 teams

For class A there is 31 teams included
Section 1 4 teams
Sections 2 6 teams
Section 3 1 team
Section 4 3 teams
Section 5 1 team
Sections 6 6 teams
Sections 7 4 teams
Section 8. 5 teamsImage

Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:55 am; edited 2 times in total
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Teams eliminated due to not have beaten two ranked teams in sections with at least two ranked teams. 8 teams in class AA eliminated with this new criteria and 29 teams in class AA being contenders

Section 2
Bloom Jefferson

Section 3
Eagen
East ridge

Section 4
Roseville
Mounds view

Section 6
Hopkins
Armstrong

Section 8
Roseau

Sections 1,5, and 7 have one ranked team so one win vs ranked teams would keep them in competition



Class A need two wins vs ranked teams in sections with two ranked teams
5 more teams eliminated and 26 teams contenders in class A

Section 2
Blake
Mounds west

Section 4
Totino grace

Section 6
Little falls

Section 8
Crookston


Sections 1,3, and 5 have one or less ranked team so only one win vs ranked team keeps team relevant.
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Let's see how the teams do that are not ranked but have beaten ranked teams. Those seeds aren't that bad. The real marker of how they do to me is winning against teams not listed on LPH during the year. Making to a game vs a ranked opponent and pulling off an upset in that round.

Teams that have beaten ranked teams during season


Section 1
Lakeville South seeded 2 vs ranked 3-6-1


Section 8 has bemidji as the top seed but I could see Roseau win section.
Roseau (Seeded 3) 1-5 vs ranked

Section 3
In this section you have teams that could win one big upset game. But winning one upset game could set up another team to make the finals and have a chip, chair, and a chance.
East ridge (5). 1-4-1 vs ranked
East view (3) 2-10
Rosemount(4) 3-8
Eagan (6) 1-10

Section 7
This one will be really tough to get two upsets when you are ranked seven in a section with Grand Rapids, duluth east, and elk river.
Forest lake (7) vs ranked 1-6-1
Andover seeded 6 vs ranked 0-5-1


Section 6
There is another section where upset teams are not going to spring three upsets to beat three ranked teams.
Armstrong (7) 1-3 vs ranked

Section 4
This one could make finals. Hill Murray and white bear lake have a slow night and who knows.
Still water seeded 3 vs ranked 1-4
Mounds view (5) vs ranked 0-3-2
Roseville (4). 1-5

Section 5
Ranked two in a section with centennial, maple grove. This one might be one a person could miss if not paying attention.
Anoka (2). 2-3-1 vs ranked
Centennial seeded 3 vs ranked 2-6
Maple grove seeded 4 vs ranked teams

Section 2
Zero to no chance to upset two ranked teams to get to state but get their recognition for having a few big wins in season.
Bloom Jeff (4) vs ranked 2-8
Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Teams that beat ranked teams but are not ranked themselves.

This is our class A teams

Section 1
This section is anyone's to win with the best team ranked at 17 new Prague. There are several teams that fall into the category of beating ranked teams. All have a chance.
Northfield seeded 3. 0-1-1 vs ranked
Roch Lourdes seeded 8 1-8 vs ranked
Mankato west seeded 2 vs ranked 1-3-1


Section 2
Too many ranked teams to pull off a section final.
Mound west seeded 10 vs ranked 1-7
Blake seeded 5 vs ranked 1-8

Section 5
Spring lake park seeded 1 vs ranked 0-1
Chisago lakes seeded 2 vs ranked 0-3


Section 3
Luverne seeded 1 vs ranked 0-2


Section 6
Also a section with too many ranked clubs. Might pull off one upset but won't get two.
Little falls seeded 7. Vs ranked 1-8

Section 8
Here is another one that the section is just too deep. Might pull off one but not two.
Crookston seeded 6 vs ranked 1-7
Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
justlivin
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Post by justlivin »

grandmeadowhockeyfan wrote:Teams that beat ranked teams but are not ranked themselves.

This is our class A teams

Section 1
This section is anyone's to win with the best team ranked at 17 new Prague. There are several teams that fall into the category of beating ranked teams. All have a chance.
Northfield seeded 3. 0-1-1 vs ranked
Roch Lourdes seeded 8 1-8 vs ranked

Section 2
Too many ranked teams to pull off a section final.
Mound west seeded 10 vs ranked 1-7

Section 6
Also a section with too many ranked clubs. Might pull off one upset but won't get two.
Little falls seeded 7. Vs ranked 1-8

Section 8
Here is another one that the section is just too deep. Might pull off one but not two.
Crookston seeded 6 vs ranked 1-7


Section 1
Mankato West 1-2 ranked teams
loses to New Prague & Delano
Win St. Cloud Cathedral
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Let's see how the teams do that are not ranked but have beaten ranked teams. Those seeds aren't that bad. The real marker of how they do to me is winning against teams not listed on LPH during the year. Making to a game vs a ranked opponent and pulling off an upset in that round.

Teams that have beaten ranked teams during season


Section 1
Lakeville South seeded 2 vs ranked 3-6-1


Section 8 has bemidji as the top seed but I could see Roseau win section.
Roseau (Seeded 3) 1-5 vs ranked

Section 3
In this section you have teams that could win one big upset game. But winning one upset game could set up another team to make the finals and have a chip, chair, and a chance.
East ridge (5). 1-4-1 vs ranked
East view (3) 2-10
Rosemount(4) 3-8
Eagan (6) 1-10

Section 7
This one will be really tough to get two upsets when you are ranked seven in a section with Grand Rapids, duluth east, and elk river.
Forest lake (7) vs ranked 1-6-1
Andover seeded 6 vs ranked 0-5-1


Section 6
There is another section where upset teams are not going to spring three upsets to beat three ranked teams.
Armstrong (7) 1-3 vs ranked

Section 4
This one could make finals. Hill Murray and white bear lake have a slow night and who knows.
Still water seeded 3 vs ranked 1-4
Mounds view (5) vs ranked 0-3-2
Roseville (4). 1-5

Section 5
Ranked two in a section with centennial, maple grove. This one might be one a person could miss if not paying attention.
Anoka (2). 2-3-1 vs ranked
Centennial seeded 3 vs ranked 2-6
Maple grove seeded 4 vs ranked teams

Section 2
Zero to no chance to upset two ranked teams to get to state but get their recognition for having a few big wins in season.
Bloom Jeff (4) vs ranked 2-8
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

Teams that beat ranked teams but are not ranked themselves.

This is our class A teams

Section 1
This section is anyone's to win with the best team ranked at 17 new Prague. There are several teams that fall into the category of beating ranked teams. All have a chance.
Northfield seeded 3. 0-1-1 vs ranked
Roch Lourdes seeded 8 1-8 vs ranked
Mankato west seeded 2 vs ranked 1-3-1


Section 2
Too many ranked teams to pull off a section final.
Mound west seeded 10 vs ranked 1-7
Blake seeded 5 vs ranked 1-8

Section 5
Spring lake park seeded 1 vs ranked 0-1
Chisago lakes seeded 2 vs ranked 0-3


Section 3
Luverne seeded 1 vs ranked 0-2


Section 6
Also a section with too many ranked clubs. Might pull off one upset but won't get two.
Little falls seeded 7. Vs ranked 1-8

Section 8
Here is another one that the section is just too deep. Might pull off one but not two.
Crookston seeded 6 vs ranked 1-7

Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
grandmeadowhockeyfan
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Post by grandmeadowhockeyfan »

LPH ranked teams and my contenders listed. Each team with record vs ranked Class AA teams along with next opponent. Let's follow how far these teams advance,

Rankings as of preplayoffs 2-12
Teams remaining through 2-19 and will be updated after all quarterfinals have been completed.
1. Lakeville North 11-1 vs ranked next vs Dodge County
2. Edina. 17-1-1 vs ranked next vs bye on quarterfinals
3. St Thomas Academy 5-3 vs ranked next vs Apple Valley
4. Hill Murray 6-5 vs ranked next vs north St. Paul
5. Eden Prairie 10-8 vs ranked teams next vs bye in quarterfinals
6. Elk river 4-4 vs ranked next vs St Francis
7. Blaine 4-1 vs ranked next vs Coon Rapids
8. White Bear Lake 3-3 vs ranked next vs Irondale
9. Wayzata 5-9-2 vs ranked next vs Hopkins 1-8-2 vs ranked
10. BSM 6-7-2 vs ranked next vs 12 Holy Family 5-3-2 vs ranked
11. Bemidji 2-1 vs ranked next vs Monticello
#QF 12. Holy Family lost to 10 BSM 6-7-2 vs ranked
13. Minnetonka. 6-9-1 vs ranked next Robbinsdale
14. Prior Lake 5-7 vs ranked next vs Shakoppee
15. Burnsville. 3-9-2 vs ranked next vs Chanhassen
16. CDH. 2-4 vs ranked next vs Woodbury
17. Moorhead 2-6-2 vs ranked next vs St Cloud Tech
18. Farmington 2-4-1 vs ranked next vs Rochester JM
19. Grand Rapids 2-5-1 vs ranked next vs 20 Duluth East 2-6-3 vs ranked
20. Duluth East 2-6-3 vs ranked next vs Grand Rapids 2-5-1 vs ranked

Next is non ranked clubs
Lakeville South 3-6-1 vs ranked next vs Owatonna
Stillwater 1-4 vs ranked next vs Tartan
#QF. Andover 0-5-1 eliminated by 20 Duluth East
Centennial 2-6 vs ranked next vs Champlin Park
Maple Grove 2-9 vs ranked next vs Osseo
Roseau 1-5 vs ranked next vs 17 Moorhead
#QF. Eagan lost to Eastview
#QF Forest lake 0-6-1 vs ranked eliminated by 19 Grand Rapids
#QF. Armstrong lost to 13 Minnetonka
Mounds View 0-3-2 vs ranked next vs Roseville
Roseville 1-5 vs ranked next vs Mounds View
Anoka 2-3-1 vs ranked next vs Rogers
#QF. East Ridge lost to Rosemount
Eastview 2-10 vs ranked next vs Eagan
Bloom Jefferson 1-8-1 vs ranked next vs Holy Angels
Rosemount 3-9 vs ranked next vs East Ridge
#QF Hopkins lost to 9 Wayzata
Last edited by grandmeadowhockeyfan on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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