Single A teams that should move up?

[defense]

I will pit my own spin on this always amusing subject. I am not going blame any team who plays in class A that was put there based on the rules set forth by the mshsl. What I will do is point out some programs who should, based on profile and success of their programs, want to move into class AA themselves. Success is only a part of the picture I look at in this case, history , facilities, youth programs, etc. Are all part of this, looking big picture in other words. Yes, any private school who at any level has a team put together with players who came to that school with the idea that other solid players from elsewhere will also go to school there and we will have a powerhouse team should want to play AA. But I don't end it with that. For various reasons teams like Hibbing , Denfeld, Apollo, possibly the Mankato schools though I am less familiar with them. There was never a doubt in my mind that Bemidji has always been a AA program even when they weren't. Teams I am more familiar with like Alexandria , Detroit Lakes, Fergus Falls , Willmar all really have programs that could pass for AA teams and could also compete at that level close to how they compete in class A. Again, no blame for staying in class A, but given their situations, I would want to play in class AA instead of A.

[rainier]

In a perfect world, A teams would opt up more often when they had a great class come through. If a team has never made a significant run in A, then they should go for it in A and use that as a springboard to build steam around their program and grow. Once that is accomplished, then I think teams should opt up for the years that they have a legitimate chance of getting to state in AA.

Take EGF, for example. They won their first A title last year and have a solid shot to do it again this year, or at least make a deep run. (Provided the Warriors don't knock them off!) In my perfect world, if EGF has another group come through like this one, then they would say to themselves "Hey, we already have proven ourselves at the small show, now let's go for the big prize."

Hibbing hasn't even won an A title and I wish they'd go AA for the next couple years. I think they'd be a top 3 seed in 7AA in 2017, which is good enough for me to want them to opt-up. (Although, one could argue with Hermantown in 7A, Hibbing may be taking the easy road by moving to 7AA. )

Why does a community's past success have ties to current players and what their aspirations should be?

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

[Goldyismoldy]

Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe ...

If I had a nickel for every time that was posted...

[defense]

Why should the academic and professional success of former students have anything to do with what the aspirations of current students are??? At any school of college ??

[warriors41]

To be clear, speaking as someone from Warroad, I would love to see them opt up to AA. But then staying in A won cause me to cheer for them any less and I'm still excited every time they get to state.

[rainier]

Why should the academic and professional success of former students have anything to do with what the aspirations of current students are??? At any school of college ??

I don't know if it should or shouldn't, but it does.

This is why some people were calling for the Rapids' coach's head earlier this year. They have had high level success and the players and fans expect better.

This is why people call for Don Lucia's head even though he has taken the school to two national titles and many other Frozen Fours. The aspirations of the current players is squarely based on what the history of the team is. For many teams, making the national tournament is a dream. For the Gophers, NOT making the tournament is grounds for firing.

You think Randolph isn't holding his current kids to the same standards than what he did for his past groups? Those kids are proud to play for the East program and that tradition and success has a ton to do with what those kids' aspirations are.

Am I missing something? Is this really that hard of a concept to understand?

[rainier]

To be clear, speaking as someone from Warroad, I would love to see them opt up to AA. But then staying in A won cause me to cheer for them any less and I'm still excited every time they get to state.

As a Hibbing fan, I feel the exact same way. I support 'em no matter what, but always want to win at highest level possible.

[HShockeywatcher]

Winning, attending, either way. I think Class A was created to give smaller schools a chance at making state and having a chance to win it all.

So, is it really about the private schools then?
Unless all the good privates and a dozen public schools opt up, "smaller schools" are going to be making it to state and having a real shot of winning.

Again, I'm simply asking questions, not stating an opinion.
If that is really what is wanted, I would think they would simply have Class A be the bottom 64 teams and have a committee select teams like Hermantown and Warroad that have to play up giving us a real "small school tournament."

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

Merely asking a question. I understand that point of view. But I also highly doubt everyone has that. For a plethora of the schools who are choosing to play up, but have a very low chance of making it to state in AA, I bet there are some kids on those teams who would pick to be down and compete in A given the option.

[rainier]

Winning, attending, either way. I think Class A was created to give smaller schools a chance at making state and having a chance to win it all.

So, is it really about the private schools then?
Unless all the good privates and a dozen public schools opt up, "smaller schools" are going to be making it to state and having a real shot of winning.


Again, I'm simply asking questions, not stating an opinion.
If that is really what is wanted, I would think they would simply have Class A be the bottom 64 teams and have a committee select teams like Hermantown and Warroad that have to play up giving us a real "small school tournament."

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

Merely asking a question. I understand that point of view. But I also highly doubt everyone has that. For a plethora of the schools who are choosing to play up, but have a very low chance of making it to state in AA, I bet there are some kids on those teams who would pick to be down and compete in A given the option.

As far as I know, there isn't a "plethora" of schools opting up. Off the top of my head: Bemidji, Roseau, Grand Rapids, Cloquet, STA, HM, BSM, AHA, HF, and Cretin. What others are there? Most of those teams are excellent and I bet there isn't a single kid that would rather be collecting trophies in A. This is where that thing called "tradition" comes in. All of these schools (except HF) have had some serious hockey success, and I don't think anyone associated with these teams wants to take a step down.

[Froggy Richards]

In a perfect world, A teams would opt up more often when they had a great class come through. If a team has never made a significant run in A, then they should go for it in A and use that as a springboard to build steam around their program and grow. Once that is accomplished, then I think teams should opt up for the years that they have a legitimate chance of getting to state in AA.

Take EGF, for example. They won their first A title last year and have a solid shot to do it again this year, or at least make a deep run. (Provided the Warriors don't knock them off!) In my perfect world, if EGF has another group come through like this one, then they would say to themselves "Hey, we already have proven ourselves at the small show, now let's go for the big prize."

Hibbing hasn't even won an A title and I wish they'd go AA for the next couple years. I think they'd be a top 3 seed in 7AA in 2017, which is good enough for me to want them to opt-up. (Although, one could argue with Hermantown in 7A, Hibbing may be taking the easy road by moving to 7AA. )

Why does a community's past success have ties to current players and what their aspirations should be?

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

[hshockeyfan53]

Why does a community's past success have ties to current players and what their aspirations should be?

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

What constitutes being from somewhere? Do you have to actually be birthed in the city hall or something in order to be accepted on this forum as being from a certain city? Plante, the Leblancs, and the Pionk family all lived in the Hermantown School district well before they started "chasing trophies." You could make an argument, however, that families moving to Hermantown or open enrolling in the past couple years may have done it because of the hockey program.

I think you are taking examples of one or two kids open enrolling and making a general statement that their entire varsity squad is made up of kids who moved into the district and/or open enrolled there. At least that's what it sounds like.

Believe it or not, there IS actually programs that develop the majority of their players from within their own youth programs. Just because a team is successful doesn't mean that they plucked all the talent away from local districts.

[greenway1969]

It's a fact of hockey life that good programs will attract hockey players from other communities. Also if someone is moving to the Duluth area the family may choose Hermantown for its hockey success. I'm not going to criticize a family for doing what they think is best for their kid. But isn't the opportunity to paticipate in the AA tourney a much better situation for kids than competing in A. Hermantown may have one challenging game at sectionals (probably none next year) and maybe two competitve games at state. If they were in AA, they would have three competitive games at sectionals and three at state. This doesn't even take into consideration the regular schedule would be upgraded and contain much more competitive teams. Don't expect Hermantown to ever move up, they (community, coaches and players) seem to be satisfied with the current situation.

[pekyman]

Why does a community's past success have ties to current players and what their aspirations should be?

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

With an attitude like yours no wonder your program stinks. I'm sure every player from Warroad, Roseau, Cloquet and GR were actually born right on the blue line... Open enrollment in HT is closed, there is no LeBlanc on the team and the Pionk boys have been there forever. Pretty sure all of them have skated there since mini-mites. In addition, Mr. Pionk has done more to develop northern area youth hockey players than probably anybody else. I'd bet that there are kids on your team that have went to his camps or played on teams he has coached. You should work on your own program instead insulting one you know nothing about. I for one have no respect for you or anything that you spew.

[Froggy Richards]

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

What constitutes being from somewhere? Do you have to actually be birthed in the city hall or something in order to be accepted on this forum as being from a certain city? Plante, the Leblancs, and the Pionk family all lived in the Hermantown School district well before they started "chasing trophies." You could make an argument, however, that families moving to Hermantown or open enrolling in the past couple years may have done it because of the hockey program.

I think you are taking examples of one or two kids open enrolling and making a general statement that their entire varsity squad is made up of kids who moved into the district and/or open enrolled there. At least that's what it sounds like.

Believe it or not, there IS actually programs that develop the majority of their players from within their own youth programs. Just because a team is successful doesn't mean that they plucked all the talent away from local districts.

Fair enough, let me clarify. I am in fact talking about the past couple years. My point on the names above was that Hermantown does not belong in the same conversation as Warroad and Roseau, since Warroad got brought into this debate in recent posts. The Warroad and Roseau names go back for generations. Hermantown doesn't have that.

I don't know much about the makeup of the current High School team, which is why I always reference the Youth Program when I talk about move-ins and open enrollees. I couldn't tell you how many kids are not from Hermantown on the HS team, except that there are some. I live in Duluth and follow most of the top kids in the area from 03-06. So what I can tell you is that kids in those age groups from all over the area are open enrolling in Hermantown. And it's not just a "couple kids" like you said. I can think of 8 off of the top of my head from 03-06 and those are just the ones that I am aware of. That's just open enrollment and does not count the move-ins. If you're willing to move somewhere, that takes a little bit more of a commitment, so I don't pick on those people as much. And yes, it's been within the last 2-3 years and they are all top players in the area in their age groups, so I think it's safe to say it's for the Hockey. And before anyone gets too excited, No, I am not saying that Bruce Plante recruits or has anything to do with recruiting. In fact, I would highly doubt it. The youth parents and coaches on the other hand? Yes, they absolutely do recruit. I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears. To my knowledge this isn't against any rules, so I'm not accusing them of anything. And to be fair to Hermantown, some of these kids Parents send them there on their own too. I've said it many times, Hermantown has built a great program and deserves credit for that. That's why people want to send their kids there. That's fantastic. But when you bring in this many kids from the outside, it should also move you to AA in my opinion. It's not fair to all of the small towns out there that don't have the population base to recruit from. Just my opinion.

[Froggy Richards]

Really? Ever hear of the words "tradition" and "program"? Come on, HSHW, you can't really believe that the past has no bearing on what current players' aspirations are?

Ask the kids who play for Roseau this question, and they'd point to all the banners hanging in their arena, or all the trophies in their case, or the fans of all ages who come to their games and support them because of all the good times the past successes have given them and the rest of the community.

Come on, man!

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

With an attitude like yours no wonder your program stinks. I'm sure every player from Warroad, Roseau, Cloquet and GR were actually born right on the blue line... Open enrollment in HT is closed, there is no LeBlanc on the team and the Pionk boys have been there forever. Pretty sure all of them have skated there since mini-mites. In addition, Mr. Pionk has done more to develop northern area youth hockey players than probably anybody else. I'd bet that there are kids on your team that have went to his camps or played on teams he has coached. You should work on your own program instead insulting one you know nothing about. I for one have no respect for you or anything that you spew.

I've never insulted anyone. Read my posts. I've said several times that Hermantown deserves a lot of credit for the program they've built. You on the other hand have enjoyed calling me names several times. Not sure that adds to the debate but if it makes you feel better, fire away, I've been called worse. All I'm saying is that Hermantown is not a Single A program. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll respect your opinion and I won't call you names over it.

And yes, Mr. Pionk is a guy that I'm very fond of. He's a great guy, a great coach, has done a lot for Hockey and helped to develop many young players. I said nothing to the contrary. All I said was that he is not from Hermantown and moved there. Is that an insult in your world?

And open enrollment is not closed in Hermantown. Unless a grade is full, you can open enroll just like any other school. Check your facts please.

[elliott70]

Because of the physical size of the Hermantown school building most (perhaps all) of the high school classes (9-12) are closed and the future (middle school classes) will likely be closed.

[hshockeyfan53]

You're spot on Rainier. The past has everything to do with current success. Hermantown has built a great program and the younger generations see this and want to have the same success. It's the same with Warroad and Roseau. However, nobody should ever claim that Warroad and Roseau SHOULD play in AA. The fact that Roseau wants to is very commendable and I take my hat off to them. But those are small communities that have had success for all of the right reasons. It's the tradition and the passion for hockey. Kids get skates as soon as they can walk. You've got the big names to look up to like Broten, Christian, Boucha, Marvin, Oshie, etc. You have some big names in Hermantown too on a lesser scale, like Plante, LeBlanc and Pionk. The difference is that none of them are from Hermantown. They all moved in.

What separates these programs is that Warroad and Roseau are small towns that don't have a community of 100,000+ next door. The parents in Duluth, Twig, Pike Lake, Proctor, Grand Lake, etc. all see this success in Hermantown too. 5 straight state championship games will get a lot of attention. When Little Jonny excels in Mites or Squirts, they can simply open enroll them to Hermantown to play hockey. They have a cakewalk to the State Tourney every year because they're in Single A, and what parent wouldn't want to see their kid have that success. No sacrifice at all. Keep your same house, same neighborhood, same low taxes, your same friends, your same job and simply drive an extra couple of miles to drop your kids off at school every day. When you take the top kids in this large area and add them to an already good program, you make it great. And that my friends, is no longer a Single A program.

With an attitude like yours no wonder your program stinks. I'm sure every player from Warroad, Roseau, Cloquet and GR were actually born right on the blue line... Open enrollment in HT is closed, there is no LeBlanc on the team and the Pionk boys have been there forever. Pretty sure all of them have skated there since mini-mites. In addition, Mr. Pionk has done more to develop northern area youth hockey players than probably anybody else. I'd bet that there are kids on your team that have went to his camps or played on teams he has coached. You should work on your own program instead insulting one you know nothing about. I for one have no respect for you or anything that you spew.

I've never insulted anyone. Read my posts. I've said several times that Hermantown deserves a lot of credit for the program they've built. You on the other hand have enjoyed calling me names several times. Not sure that adds to the debate but if it makes you feel better, fire away, I've been called worse. All I'm saying is that Hermantown is not a Single A program. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll respect your opinion and I won't call you names over it.

And yes, Mr. Pionk is a guy that I'm very fond of. He's a great guy, a great coach, has done a lot for Hockey and helped to develop many young players. I said nothing to the contrary. All I said was that he is not from Hermantown and moved there. Is that an insult in your world?

And open enrollment is not closed in Hermantown. Unless a grade is full, you can open enroll just like any other school. Check your facts please.

So he can never consider himself a resident of Hermantown just because of where he graduated high school? If we go down that road then nobody is ACTUALLY from Hermantown because somebody in their family tree moved there at some point in time. Nobody is really from Duluth either because somebody in their ancestry moved there at some point. See how stupid that sounds?

I bet if you ask those Pionk boys where they are from they will say Hermantown and be damn proud of it. That family has poured more sweat and blood into that program than we could all imagine.

Just curious, how long does an individual have to live somewhere so they can say that they are from there?

Mr. Pionk may not be "from" Hermantown but his kids sure are. End of story.

[Froggy Richards]

With an attitude like yours no wonder your program stinks. I'm sure every player from Warroad, Roseau, Cloquet and GR were actually born right on the blue line... Open enrollment in HT is closed, there is no LeBlanc on the team and the Pionk boys have been there forever. Pretty sure all of them have skated there since mini-mites. In addition, Mr. Pionk has done more to develop northern area youth hockey players than probably anybody else. I'd bet that there are kids on your team that have went to his camps or played on teams he has coached. You should work on your own program instead insulting one you know nothing about. I for one have no respect for you or anything that you spew.

I've never insulted anyone. Read my posts. I've said several times that Hermantown deserves a lot of credit for the program they've built. You on the other hand have enjoyed calling me names several times. Not sure that adds to the debate but if it makes you feel better, fire away, I've been called worse. All I'm saying is that Hermantown is not a Single A program. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll respect your opinion and I won't call you names over it.

And yes, Mr. Pionk is a guy that I'm very fond of. He's a great guy, a great coach, has done a lot for Hockey and helped to develop many young players. I said nothing to the contrary. All I said was that he is not from Hermantown and moved there. Is that an insult in your world?

And open enrollment is not closed in Hermantown. Unless a grade is full, you can open enroll just like any other school. Check your facts please.

So he can never consider himself a resident of Hermantown just because of where he graduated high school? If we go down that road then nobody is ACTUALLY from Hermantown because somebody in their family tree moved there at some point in time. Nobody is really from Duluth either because somebody in their ancestry moved there at some point. See how stupid that sounds?

I bet if you ask those Pionk boys where they are from they will say Hermantown and be damn proud of it. That family has poured more sweat and blood into that program than we could all imagine.

Just curious, how long does an individual have to live somewhere so they can say that they are from there?

Mr. Pionk may not be "from" Hermantown but his kids sure are. End of story.

Relax. My point was in reference to comparing Big names in Roseau, Warroad and Hermantown. You're taking it out of context. Of course he's a resident, he lives there right? And yes, I would consider his kids to be "from" Hermantown even though they weren't born there. They've lived the majority of their lives there so I think that qualifies.

[ILTG]

With an attitude like yours no wonder your program stinks. I'm sure every player from Warroad, Roseau, Cloquet and GR were actually born right on the blue line... Open enrollment in HT is closed, there is no LeBlanc on the team and the Pionk boys have been there forever. Pretty sure all of them have skated there since mini-mites. In addition, Mr. Pionk has done more to develop northern area youth hockey players than probably anybody else. I'd bet that there are kids on your team that have went to his camps or played on teams he has coached. You should work on your own program instead insulting one you know nothing about. I for one have no respect for you or anything that you spew.

I've never insulted anyone. Read my posts. I've said several times that Hermantown deserves a lot of credit for the program they've built. You on the other hand have enjoyed calling me names several times. Not sure that adds to the debate but if it makes you feel better, fire away, I've been called worse. All I'm saying is that Hermantown is not a Single A program. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll respect your opinion and I won't call you names over it.

And yes, Mr. Pionk is a guy that I'm very fond of. He's a great guy, a great coach, has done a lot for Hockey and helped to develop many young players. I said nothing to the contrary. All I said was that he is not from Hermantown and moved there. Is that an insult in your world?

And open enrollment is not closed in Hermantown. Unless a grade is full, you can open enroll just like any other school. Check your facts please.

So he can never consider himself a resident of Hermantown just because of where he graduated high school? If we go down that road then nobody is ACTUALLY from Hermantown because somebody in their family tree moved there at some point in time. Nobody is really from Duluth either because somebody in their ancestry moved there at some point. See how stupid that sounds?

I bet if you ask those Pionk boys where they are from they will say Hermantown and be damn proud of it. That family has poured more sweat and blood into that program than we could all imagine.

Just curious, how long does an individual have to live somewhere so they can say that they are from there?

Mr. Pionk may not be "from" Hermantown but his kids sure are. End of story.

Just curious, Do you think the oldest Pionk boy would have left early to Jr's had Hermantown opted up last cycle? Filled out the rest of the schedule with AA teams? Played on the "big Stage"? If so, does that say something about them playing A?

[HShockeywatcher]

Roughly 15% of AA is schools that opt up, use whatever adjective you'd like to describe that. The point is the same; I know there are fan bases and players in high school and above that would prefer to be successful at a "lower" level than be unsuccessful at a "higher" level.

Winning, attending, either way. I think Class A was created to give smaller schools a chance at making state and having a chance to win it all.

So, is it really about the private schools then?
Unless all the good privates and a dozen public schools opt up, "smaller schools" are going to be making it to state and having a real shot of winning.

Again, I'm simply asking questions, not stating an opinion.
If that is really what is wanted, I would think they would simply have Class A be the bottom 64 teams and have a committee select teams like Hermantown and Warroad that have to play up giving us a real "small school tournament."

[greenway1969]

Depends how you defne success.

[HShockeywatcher]

Depends how you defne success.

For sure. Personally, I would be in support of no classes in any sports and systems where not all teams make the playoffs, then how successful you are is clear cut and there's no question of ability based on class and who you've played.
(It likely wouldn't be logistically possible in football because of season length, but you could in all others)

[pekyman]

Roughly 15% of AA is schools that opt up, use whatever adjective you'd like to describe that. The point is the same; I know there are fan bases and players in high school and above that would prefer to be successful at a "lower" level than be unsuccessful at a "higher" level.

Winning, attending, either way. I think Class A was created to give smaller schools a chance at making state and having a chance to win it all.

So, is it really about the private schools then?
Unless all the good privates and a dozen public schools opt up, "smaller schools" are going to be making it to state and having a real shot of winning.

Again, I'm simply asking questions, not stating an opinion.
If that is really what is wanted, I would think they would simply have Class A be the bottom 64 teams and have a committee select teams like Hermantown and Warroad that have to play up giving us a real "small school tournament."

I think you are correct HSHW. One example is Cloquet. I know they are too "proud" but I think Cloquet would have a better chance of growing their program if they were in Class A. They certainly would not be a lock to win it even if they made it out of 7A. Bemidji is another. They have an easier path to state, but they don't get there often. Both of those schools have youth programs that are A in size and currently struggle with top A teams. They need to grow their programs.
This is a strong year for Hermantown. It's down from here for while I would say. They will always be good, just not good enough to knock off and top AA teams like this year. They will be competitive with the top A teams. Next year they will be vulnerable in 7A and with Marshall out, I could see Hibbing winning it if what Rainier says is true.

Below is a table of Top Class AA/A Teams.

Here is the Key.

R = CURRENT RANK
CL = 2A or 1A
TOT = TOTAL STUDENTS
BOYS = MALE STUDENTS
BP = NUMBER OF BANTAM /PEEWEE TEAMS
% PLAY = BN/PW AS A % OF MALES IN HS

AA/A SORT BY SIZE OF SCHOOL:

Code: Select all

SZ	R	TEAM  	CL	  TOT	 BOYS	BP	% Play
 1	 8	Wayzata	2A	2979	1489	15	15.11%
 2	13	Minneto	2A	2846	1423	13	13.70%
 3	 5	Eden Pr	2A	2845	1422	10	10.54%
 4	 7	Blaine 	2A	2554	1277	 9	10.57%
 5	 2	Edina  	2A	2529	1264	19	22.54%
 6	15	Burnsvi	2A	2315	1157	 6	7.78%
 7	12	Prior L	2A	2205	1102	 9	12.24%
 8	 9	WB Lake	2A	2083	1041	14	20.16%
 9	xx	MapleGr	2A	2047	1023	14	20.52%
10	xx	Hopkins	2A	2045	1022	 4	5.87%
11	xx	Centenn	2A	1905	 952	11	17.33%
12	xx	Brainer	2A	1814	 907	 7	11.58%
13	xx	Rosevil	2A	1804	 902	 7	11.64%
14	 1	Lake  N	2A	1732	 866	10	17.32%
15	18	Lake  S	2A	1729	 864	 6	10.42%
16	xx	Andover	2A	1624	 812	 9	16.63%
17	xx	Bloom J	2A	1543	 771	 6	11.67%
18	 6	Elk Riv	2A	1528	 764	 9	17.67%
19	xx	DuluthE	2A	1472	 736	11	22.42%
20	17	Moorhea	2A	1354	 677	 8	17.73%
21	 2	Mahtome	1A	1143	 571	 9	23.62%
22	19	DL     	1A	1142	 571	 5	13.13%
23	11	Bemidgi	2A	1142	 571	 4	10.51%
24	17	New Pra	1A	1123	 561	 7	18.70%
25	 6	Alexand	1A	1091	 545	 5	13.75%
26	xx	Cloquet	2A	1070	 535	 6	16.82%
27	20	Grand R	2A	0941	 470	 7	22.32%
28	15	Orono  	1A	0909	 454	 9	29.70%
29	 8	Denfeld	1A	0863	 431	 4	13.90%
30	16	Hibbing	1A	0764	 382	 5	19.63%
31	 9	Delano 	1A	0724	 362	 5	20.72%
32	10	Thief R	1A	0679	 339	 4	17.67%
33	12	Fergus 	1A	0647	 323	 4	18.55%
34	 1	Hermant	1A	0615	 307	 6	29.27%
35	xx	Virgini	1A	0533	 266	 4	22.51%
36	 3	East Gr	1A	0490	 245	 3	18.37%
37	xx	Luverne	1A	0470	 235	 3	19.15%
38	xx	Roseau 	2A	0371	 185	 4	32.35%
39	14	Warroad	1A	0257	 128	 4	46.69%

AA/A SORT BY PROGRAM SIZE:

Code: Select all

SZ	R	TEAM  	CL	  TOT	 BOYS	BP	% Play
 5	 2	Edina  	2A	2529	1264	19	22.54%
 1	 8	Wayzata	2A	2979	1489	15	15.11%
 8	 9	WB Lake	2A	2083	1041	14	20.16%
 9	xx	MapleGr	2A	2047	1023	14	20.52%
 2	13	Minneto	2A	2846	1423	13	13.70%
11	xx	Centenn	2A	1905	 952	11	17.33%
19	xx	DuluthE	2A	1472	 736	11	22.42%
 3	 5	Eden Pr	2A	2845	1422	10	10.54%
14	 1	Lake  N	2A	1732	 866	10	17.32%
 4	 7	Blaine 	2A	2554	1277	 9	10.57%
 7	12	Prior L	2A	2205	1102	 9	12.24%
16	xx	Andover	2A	1624	 812	 9	16.63%
18	 6	Elk Riv	2A	1528	 764	 9	17.67%
21	 2	Mahtome	1A	1143	 571	 9	23.62%
28	15	Orono  	1A	0909	 454	 9	29.70%
20	17	Moorhea	2A	1354	 677	 8	17.73%
12	xx	Brainer	2A	1814	 907	 7	11.58%
13	xx	Rosevil	2A	1804	 902	 7	11.64%
24	17	New Pra	1A	1123	 561	 7	18.70%
27	20	Grand R	2A	0941	 470	 7	22.32%
 6	15	Burnsvi	2A	2315	1157	 6	7.78%
15	18	Lake  S	2A	1729	 864	 6	10.42%
17	xx	Bloom J	2A	1543	 771	 6	11.67%
26	xx	Cloquet	2A	1070	 535	 6	16.82%
34	 1	Hermant	1A	0615	 307	 6	29.27%
22	19	DL     	1A	1142	 571	 5	13.13%
25	 6	Alexand	1A	1091	 545	 5	13.75%
30	16	Hibbing	1A	0764	 382	 5	19.63%
31	 9	Delano 	1A	0724	 362	 5	20.72%
10	xx	Hopkins	2A	2045	1022	 4	5.87%
23	11	Bemidgi	2A	1142	 571	 4	10.51%
29	 8	Denfeld	1A	0863	 431	 4	13.90%
32	10	Thief R	1A	0679	 339	 4	17.67%
33	12	Fergus 	1A	0647	 323	 4	18.55%
35	xx	Virgini	1A	0533	 266	 4	22.51%
38	xx	Roseau 	2A	0371	 185	 4	32.35%
39	14	Warroad	1A	0257	 128	 4	46.69%
36	 3	East Gr	1A	0490	 245	 3	18.37%
37	xx	Luverne	1A	0470	 235	 3	19.15%

[rainier]

Thanks for the stats, pekyman. Edina has 19 bantam and pee wee teams?!!!!????

As for Cloquet, I'd have to disagree. Yes, they haven't made it to state recently, but they are still putting out a quality AA product. The whole Michaud debacle ruined what could have been a shot at state for them, and now both their pee wee AA and bantam AA teams are top ten, so enough talent is being produced there.

Plus, once you have an established program that has had success in AA, I don't think winning in A would help you grow the program. Hockey in Cloquet is already king and I think moving down to A would dull some of the shine off the program, which never helps.

I still can't believe Edina has that many teams!

(Also, I'm pretty sure Hibbing only has 4 pee wee and bantam teams)

[pekyman]

Thanks for the stats, pekyman. Edina has 19 bantam and pee wee teams?!!!!????

As for Cloquet, I'd have to disagree. Yes, they haven't made it to state recently, but they are still putting out a quality AA product. The whole Michaud debacle ruined what could have been a shot at state for them, and now both their pee wee AA and bantam AA teams are top ten, so enough talent is being produced there.

Plus, once you have an established program that has had success in AA, I don't think winning in A would help you grow the program. Hockey in Cloquet is already king and I think moving down to A would dull some of the shine off the program, which never helps.

I still can't believe Edina has that many teams!

(Also, I'm pretty sure Hibbing only has 4 pee wee and bantam teams)

Just to be clear, it's
BN + PW.
Edina has
8 BN
11PW

Just used what I found on teams hockey websites.