Single A teams that should move up?

[LSQRANK]

This thread got me thinking about how one would realign teams in classes and sections. I started off thinking that you could have 3 classes A, AA, AAA but that doesn't work logistically because there are not enough teams. Anyway I ended up back with two classes 66 team in class 2A and the rest (86 teams) in class 1A. Its a mix of program strength and geographic location.

comments ...

Code: Select all

#     LSQRANK       Team  LG SEC CLS  Abv GD G (W-L-T)  percent
==============================================================
==============================================================
Proposed Class 2A Teams (66 teams)  : 8 sections
==============================================================
1      4      SaintThomas  MN  1  AA   STA  1.6 (20- 3-0) 0.870  
2     14              CDH  MN  1  AA   CDH  2.4 (15- 5-3) 0.717  
3     34         Eastview  MN  1  AA   EVW  3.1 (11-11-1) 0.500  
4     38        EastRidge  MN  1  AA   ERG  3.3 ( 8-13-3) 0.396  
5     50            Eagan  MN  1  AA   EAG  3.7 ( 7-15-1) 0.326  
6     55              SPA  MN  1  AA   SPA  3.8 (20- 4-0) 0.833  
7     58         Woodbury  MN  1  AA   WBY  3.9 ( 9-12-3) 0.438  
8     67         Hastings  MN  1  AA   HAS  4.0 ( 8-14-2) 0.375
---------------------------------------------------------------  
1      2            Edina  MN  2  AA   EDN  0.4 (20- 1-2) 0.913  
2      3      EdenPrairie  MN  2  AA   EP   1.4 (15- 8-0) 0.652  
3     13       HolyFamily  MN  2  AA   HF   2.3 (16- 6-2) 0.708  
4     15       Burnsville  MN  2  AA   BNV  2.4 (12-10-1) 0.543  
5     22       Minnetonka  MN  2  AA   MTK  2.5 (12-10-1) 0.543  
6     40        BloomJeff  MN  2  AA   BLJ  3.4 (12-10-1) 0.543  
7     45       HolyAngels  MN  2  AA   HA   3.6 (15- 9-0) 0.625  
8     71       Chanhassan  MN  2  AA   CHN  4.2 ( 6-13-5) 0.354  
---------------------------------------------------------------
1      5          Wayzata  MN  3  AA   WYZ  1.6 (11-11-2) 0.500
2     10              BSM  MN  3  AA   BSM  2.0 (13- 9-2) 0.583  	   
3     21            Breck  MN  3  AA   BRK  2.5 (17- 7-0) 0.708 
4     29           Delano  MN  3  AA   DEL  2.9 (20- 4-0) 0.833     
5     37       MapleGrove  MN  3  AA   MG   3.3 (10-13-0) 0.435  
6     39          Hopkins  MN  3  AA   HOP  3.4 (12-10-1) 0.543  
7     43        StMichael  MN  3  AA   SMA  3.5 (20- 4-0) 0.833  
8     84          Buffalo  MN  3  AA   BUF  4.4 (14- 9-0) 0.609  
9     52            Orono  MN  4  AA   ORO  3.7 (14- 9-1) 0.604  
---------------------------------------------------------------
1      8       HillMurray  MN  4  AA   HM   1.9 (16- 7-0) 0.696  
2      9    WhiteBearLake  MN  4  AA   WBL  2.0 (19- 5-0) 0.792  
3     18       Stillwater  MN  4  AA   STW  2.4 (16- 8-0) 0.667  
4     19        Mahtomedi  MN  4  AA   MAH  2.5 (21- 2-2) 0.880  
5     35        Roseville  MN  4  AA   ROS  3.2 (14-10-0) 0.583  
6     46       MoundsView  MN  4  AA   MSV  3.6 (10-10-3) 0.500  
7     57           Tartan  MN  4  AA   TAR  3.8 (12-10-1) 0.543  
8    114      TotinoGrace  MN  4  AA   TG   4.8 ( 8-15-0) 0.348  
---------------------------------------------------------------
1     16           Blaine  MN  5  AA   BLA  2.4 (18- 5-1) 0.771 
2     23         ElkRiver  MN  5  AA   ER   2.6 (19- 4-1) 0.813  	   
3     30       Centennial  MN  5  AA   CEN  2.9 (15- 9-0) 0.625  
4     32            Anoka  MN  5  AA   ANK  3.1 (14- 7-2) 0.652  
5     60          Andover  MN  5  AA   AND  3.9 ( 9-12-3) 0.438  
6     64       ForestLake  MN  5  AA   FL   4.0 ( 8-16-1) 0.340  
7     72            Osseo  MN  5  AA   OSS  4.2 (14- 8-1) 0.630  
8    104     ChamplinPark  MN  5  AA   CHP  4.7 ( 5-17-1) 0.239   
----------------------------------------------------------------
1      1       LakevilleN  MN  6  AA   LVN  0.0 (23- 0-0) 1.000 
2     28       LakevilleS  MN  6  AA   LVS  2.9 (12- 9-2) 0.565  
3     17       Farmington  MN  6  AA   FAM  2.4 (16- 7-0) 0.696  
4     20        PriorLake  MN  6  AA   PRL  2.5 (14- 8-1) 0.630  
5     26         Rosemont  MN  6  AA   RSM  2.7 (10-13-0) 0.435  
6     90    RochesterCENT  MN  6  AA   RCT  4.5 (13- 7-4) 0.625 
7    103      RochesterJM  MN  6  AA   RJM  4.7 (12-11-0) 0.522 
8    151      AppleValley  MN  6  AA   APV  5.4 ( 5-16-2) 0.261    
--------------------------------------------------------------
1      6       Hermantown  MN  7  AA   PRH  1.8 (22- 2-0) 0.917  
2     25       DuluthEast  MN  7  AA   DUL  2.7 (11-10-3) 0.521  
3     27      GrandRapids  MN  7  AA   GR   2.8 (13-10-2) 0.560  
4     31   DuluthMarshall  MN  7  AA   DMH  3.0 (16- 5-2) 0.739
5     44    DuluthDenfeld  MN  7  AA   DDF  3.6 (17- 7-0) 0.708     
6     33          Cloquet  MN  7  AA   CLQ  3.1 (10-12-2) 0.458  
7     62          Hibbing  MN  7  AA   HIB  3.9 (14- 7-3) 0.646
8     68      StCloudCath  MN  7  AA   SCC  4.1 (12-11-0) 0.522
9     49    StCloudApollo  MN  7  AA   SCA  3.7 (18- 4-2) 0.792      
---------------------------------------------------------------
1      7   EastGrandForks  MN  8  AA   EGF  1.9 (20- 4-0) 0.833  
2     11          Bemidji  MN  8  AA   BMJ  2.1 (19- 3-2) 0.833  
3     12         Moorhead  MN  8  AA   MOR  2.2 (14- 7-2) 0.652  
4     47           Roseau  MN  8  AA   RSU  3.6 (12-11-1) 0.521 
5     42       Alexandria  MN  8  AA   ALX  3.5 (21- 2-1) 0.896   
6     53  ThiefRiverFalls  MN  8  AA   TRF  3.8 (12-12-0) 0.500  
7     80          Warroad  MN  8  AA   WAR  4.4 (12-12-2) 0.500  
8     85        Crookston  MN  8  AA   CRK  4.5 (12-12-1) 0.500  
---------------------------------------------------------------
==============================================================
Proposed Class 1A Teams (86 teams)  : 8 sections 
==============================================================
1    106       Northfield  MN  1  A  NF   4.7 (13- 8-2) 0.609  
2    182          RedWing  MN  1  A  RW   5.7 ( 6-16-1) 0.283  
3    159        Faribault  MN  1  A  FBL  5.4 (16- 6-1) 0.717  
4    126         Owatonna  MN  1  A  OWT  4.9 (10-12-2) 0.458  
5     89    RochesterLord  MN  1  A  RLO  4.5 ( 5-16-2) 0.261  
6     98    RochesterMayo  MN  1  A  RMY  4.6 (15- 7-1) 0.674  
7    227           Winona  MN  1  A  WNN  6.8 ( 4-19-0) 0.174 
8    191        LaCresant  MN  1  A  LAC  5.9 (19- 6-0) 0.760 
9    190           Waseca  MN  1  A  WAS  5.9 (13-10-1) 0.563  
10   250      DodgeCounty  MN  1  A  DC   7.2 ( 7-15-0) 0.318    
-------------------------------------------------------------
1    157          StPeter  MN  2  A  STP  5.4 (18- 6-0) 0.750   
2    101      MankatoWest  MN  2  A  MKW  4.7 (16- 6-2) 0.708 
3    166      MankatoEast  MN  2  A  MKE  5.5 (12-13-0) 0.480  
4    195           NewUlm  MN  2  A  NU   5.9 (14- 8-2) 0.625    
5    105          Luverne  MN  2  A  LUV  4.7 (20- 4-0) 0.833  
6    142        AlbertLea  MN  2  A  ABL  5.3 ( 9-14-0) 0.391  
7    187           Austin  MN  2  A  AUS  5.8 ( 3-18-2) 0.174  
8    233           Windom  MN  2  A  WIN  6.8 ( 7-17-0) 0.292  
9    269         Fairmont  MN  2  A  FMT  7.9 ( 4-16-1) 0.214
10   272      Worthington  MN  2  A  WOR  8.1 ( 2-18-1) 0.119    
-------------------------------------------------------------
1    158        MplsNovas  MN  3  A  MPL  5.4 (12-11-1) 0.521   
2    136       MHHAunited  MN  3  A  MHH  5.1 (14- 8-1) 0.630   
3    100      SouthStPaul  MN  3  A  SSP  4.7 (13-10-0) 0.565  
4    193      NorthStPaul  MN  3  A  NSP  5.9 ( 4-19-0) 0.174  
5    121    StPaulJohnson  MN  3  A  SPJ  4.9 (14- 8-2) 0.625
6    224     StPaulComoPk  MN  3  A  SPB  6.6 (16- 8-0) 0.667
7    279   StPaulHiLandPk  MN  3  A  HLP  8.4 ( 5-18-0) 0.217  
8    283        Richfield  MN  3  A  RHF  8.8 ( 2-21-0) 0.087     
9    160           Simley  MN  3  A  SIM  5.5 ( 8-12-3) 0.413  
10   204           Sibley  MN  3  A  SIB  6.1 ( 7-17-0) 0.292 
11   170           ParkCG  MN  3  A  PCG  5.6 ( 2-21-1) 0.104    
--------------------------------------------------------------
1     92            Blake  MN  4  A  BLK  4.6 ( 8-14-1) 0.370 
2     95        BloomKENN  MN  4  A  BKN  4.6 (15- 8-0) 0.652
3    120  ArmstrongCooper  MN  4  A  ARM  4.8 ( 8-14-1) 0.370  
4    174      StLouisPark  MN  4  A  SLP  5.6 ( 8-12-3) 0.413  
5    235       Providence  MN  4  A  PVA  6.9 ( 5-18-1) 0.229 
6    167    MoundWestonka  MN  4  A  MWT  5.6 ( 8-14-1) 0.370  
7    211         Shakopee  MN  4  A  SHK  6.2 ( 2-19-2) 0.130  
8    213           Chaska  MN  4  A  CHK  6.2 (12-11-0) 0.522 
9    181          Waconia  MN  4  A  WAC  5.7 ( 6-15-3) 0.313 
10    75        NewPrague  MN  4  A  NP   4.2 (16- 8-0) 0.667  
-------------------------------------------------------------
1     96   SpringLakePark  MN  5  A  SLK  4.6 (13-10-1) 0.563    
2    168       CoonRapids  MN  5  A  CR   5.6 ( 4-18-1) 0.196
3    192         Irondale  MN  5  A  IRO  5.9 ( 3-18-2) 0.174    
4    153        StFrancis  MN  5  A  STF  5.4 ( 4-19-1) 0.188  
5    127           Rogers  MN  5  A  ROG  4.9 ( 9-14-1) 0.396  
6    205        Princeton  MN  5  A  PRC  6.1 (11-12-2) 0.480  
7    206     ChisagoLakes  MN  5  A  CHL  6.1 ( 7-14-2) 0.348  
8    212        Cambridge  MN  5  A  CAM  6.2 (10-13-0) 0.435 
9    243     LegacyChrist  MN  5  A  LCH  7.1 (12-12-0) 0.500 
10   273      NorthBranch  MN  5  A  NBH  8.1 ( 5-20-0) 0.200  
11   253         PineCity  MN  5  A  PCT  7.2 (10-14-0) 0.417    
12   242             Mora  MN  5  A  MOH  7.0 (13-10-1) 0.563 
-------------------------------------------------------------
1    189         Marshall  MN  6  A  MAR  5.9 (15- 9-1) 0.620  
2    141       Hutchinson  MN  6  A  HUT  5.2 (14- 8-1) 0.630  
3    194              LDC  MN  6  A  LDC  5.9 ( 8-13-2) 0.391  
4    210          Willmar  MN  6  A  WIL  6.2 ( 5-19-0) 0.208
5    164       RiverLakes  MN  6  A  RL   5.5 (12-10-2) 0.542    
6    229       RedwoodVal  MN  6  A  RWV  6.8 ( 8-14-0) 0.364  
7    278     Breckenridge  MN  6  A  BRW  8.4 ( 2-15-0) 0.118  
8    244           Morris  MN  6  A  MOR  7.1 ( 9-16-0) 0.360  
---------------------------------------------------------------
1    123     DetroitLakes  MN  7  A  DL   4.9 (17- 5-2) 0.750  
2    125      FergusFalls  MN  7  A  FF   4.9 (17- 5-3) 0.740  
3    156      StCloudTech  MN  7  A  STC  5.4 ( 6-16-2) 0.292   
4    122          Sartell  MN  7  A  SAR  4.9 (16- 6-2) 0.708  
5    146       SaukRapids  MN  7  A  SSR  5.3 ( 8-14-2) 0.375 
6    177       Monticello  MN  7  A  MAM  5.7 ( 9-16-0) 0.360 
7    169      LittleFalls  MN  7  A  LFS  5.6 (12-11-1) 0.521  
8    128         Brainard  MN  7  A  BRN  4.9 ( 8-16-1) 0.340
9    263    NorthernLakes  MN  7  A  PLK  7.7 ( 8-15-1) 0.354  
10   274          BigLake  MN  7  A  BIG  8.2 ( 5-20-0) 0.200  
11   275           Wadena  MN  7  A  LPG  8.2 ( 7-18-0) 0.280  
12   276       PrairieCtr  MN  7  A  PCR  8.2 ( 5-19-1) 0.220   
--------------------------------------------------------------
1    143          Kittson  MN  8  A  KIT  5.3 (17- 8-0) 0.680  
2    247     RedLakeFalls  MN  8  A  RLF  7.1 (13-11-1) 0.540   
3    209       ParkRapids  MN  8  A  PR   6.2 (11-13-1) 0.460  
4    277           Bagley  MN  8  A  BAG  8.3 ( 2-17-0) 0.105 
5    222        LakeWoods  MN  8  A  LOW  6.5 ( 8-15-0) 0.348  
6    172         Greenway  MN  8  A  GRW  5.6 (11-13-0) 0.458  
7    176         Virginia  MN  8  A  VIR  5.6 ( 8-17-0) 0.320  
8    184       NorthShore  MN  8  A  SLB  5.8 (13-10-0) 0.565  
9    188           IFALLS  MN  8  A  IFS  5.8 ( 4-20-0) 0.167 
10   282              Ely  MN  8  A  ELY  8.6 ( 3-15-0) 0.167  
11   197          Eveleth  MN  8  A  EVE  6.0 (11-12-2) 0.480  
12   208          Proctor  MN  8  A  PRO  6.2 ( 9-15-0) 0.375  
13   270        MooseLake  MN  8  A  MOO  7.9 ( 7-16-0) 0.304  

 

[ted2you]

1. Small Schools with strong youth programs can compete year in year out with the elite teams. If you consider a respectful 2-4 goal loss, competitive. I believe that the top 3-4, Single A teams can compete with any team in the state.
2. But even with longstanding traditions small schools can't do it consistently. (We all admire Roseau), but small enrollment schools go in cycles. Be careful when judging schools by their choice to move up or not. Case in point: EGF has beaten Roseau 5 consecutive times and outscored them 14-0 this season. Over the five games they outscored them 31-5. Also note that prior to that Roseau had beaten EGF seven consecutive times prior to that by a combined score of 32-16. Small schools are far more prone to cycle's.
3. The criticism from my perspective should go on the MSHSL. I have yet to hear an adequate answer as to why schools have to make a 2 year commitment almost 2 years in advance to move up. EGF didn't make the A tournament for almost 10 years. Yes, they did play in the State Tournament when it was a single class tournament, but were really competitive 1-2 years at that tournament.
4. It is unfair to make these schools choose which class to play, we don't do that in any other sport. We want the Cinderella Story and last year I have no doubt that EGF would have made the finals in AA. This season, they would be a toss up to win Section 8AA with two top 20 teams in the field.
5. Hockey traditions and youth programs do matter! If you look at the Northern Sections 7-8, they struggle to remain competitive because of the tradition and passion.
6. Follow the money, Hockey is now a big dollar sport and investment. If you want to know where the future of the game is look to communities that are growing and have relatively high income (eg. Chanhassen, Chaska, Waconia) are communities with no particular hockey tradition and couldn't compete at this time with average Northern Minnesota A teams. But the face of hockey will change rapidly, because it will be strongly influenced by affluent communities with room to grow.
In the end it will be both Numbers and Money that wins out.... Thank you Edina. Like most, I'm torn, I'd love to see teams move up, but really, year in and year out why should a school of less than 500 students try to compete with schools of almost 3000. In the glory days of hockey in Minnesota, schools weren't forced with the cruel decision to move up.

[rainier]

Hibbing leads Hermantown 2-0 after 1. Let the "Hibbing should opt up to AA" begin!

[warriors41]

I've never insulted anyone. Read my posts. I've said several times that Hermantown deserves a lot of credit for the program they've built. You on the other hand have enjoyed calling me names several times. Not sure that adds to the debate but if it makes you feel better, fire away, I've been called worse. All I'm saying is that Hermantown is not a Single A program. If you disagree, that's fine. I'll respect your opinion and I won't call you names over it.

And yes, Mr. Pionk is a guy that I'm very fond of. He's a great guy, a great coach, has done a lot for Hockey and helped to develop many young players. I said nothing to the contrary. All I said was that he is not from Hermantown and moved there. Is that an insult in your world?

And open enrollment is not closed in Hermantown. Unless a grade is full, you can open enroll just like any other school. Check your facts please.

So he can never consider himself a resident of Hermantown just because of where he graduated high school? If we go down that road then nobody is ACTUALLY from Hermantown because somebody in their family tree moved there at some point in time. Nobody is really from Duluth either because somebody in their ancestry moved there at some point. See how stupid that sounds?

I bet if you ask those Pionk boys where they are from they will say Hermantown and be damn proud of it. That family has poured more sweat and blood into that program than we could all imagine.

Just curious, how long does an individual have to live somewhere so they can say that they are from there?

Mr. Pionk may not be "from" Hermantown but his kids sure are. End of story.

Just curious, Do you think the oldest Pionk boy would have left early to Jr's had Hermantown opted up last cycle? Filled out the rest of the schedule with AA teams? Played on the "big Stage"? If so, does that say something about them playing A?

Too hard to tell. You can't really say opting up to AA would have prevented it. After all, it didn't keep Novak at STA.

[LSQRANK]

Why not implement what most soccer leagues do every year to keep the league competitive. The top two team that wins the past year have to move up the following season, and conversely the last place team get pushed down to a lower division.

[defense]

It is amusing to me that after all these years, whenever this thread pops up( which it does yearly at least ) the exact same ideas are brought up. Many times from different sources. Amazing. And soon thereafter they are shot down or in some cases supported but with the realization that it will never happen.
After all of this and after, what ? 20 seasons ? I personally am pretty comfortable with how it is working out right now, and actually liked it better before the Cadets did the honorable thing. Class A is no longer the division solely for the schools who are developing programs, or building up. It has turned into a pretty competitive league who' s TOURNEMENT is actually a better representation of a state TOURNEMENT than the class AA event. As time goes on, yes the AA event will continue to gather more fans and will remain the spectacle that it should be, but as time goes it is possible the class A event will gain in popularity. The Hermantown vs St. Thomas Academy series was awesome, it was great theater, as is the story whenever a Luverne comes over or when a Warroad comes down. It is very awesome to see when Roseau makes it through and beats the big suburban teams, or in the past Greenway etc. And as I posted before , more teams ought to take the step. But except for the largest schools, class A somewhat does resemble a single class league. I enjoy good hockey, and class A definitely provides this product.

[ted2you]

Well said... I agree and tend to think Single A, is a far more interesting product. I also agree that at the very top end there isn't much difference between the Champion of AA or A. Why I tend to enjoy A more that the names change! Teams have a run and then move over. Red Wing was at a time the dominant team in Single A, what business would they have as a AA team now... This topic always comes up this time of year because it is playoff time. I think we'd all like to see the best teams on the ice at one time. And I completely agree that winning the Single A title is not something to be sneered. As I've said before the MSHSL set up this problem, But how many Single A titles do you think Lakeville North would have won in the last 10 years. Probably not as many as Hermantown (1)! People should stop looking down on these programs and enjoy what will undoubtedly be one of the best Single A tournament fields in a long time. Clearly there are at least 4 teams that could win the State Tournament in Single A, how many have a realistic chance in AA? By the way, all of those teams could make the AA field.

[pekyman]

Well said... I agree and tend to think Single A, is a far more interesting product. I also agree that at the very top end there isn't much difference between the Champion of AA or A. Why I tend to enjoy A more that the names change! Teams have a run and then move over. Red Wing was at a time the dominant team in Single A, what business would they have as a AA team now... This topic always comes up this time of year because it is playoff time. I think we'd all like to see the best teams on the ice at one time. And I completely agree that winning the Single A title is not something to be sneered. As I've said before the MSHSL set up this problem, But how many Single A titles do you think Lakeville North would have won in the last 10 years. Probably not as many as Hermantown (1)! People should stop looking down on these programs and enjoy what will undoubtedly be one of the best Single A tournament fields in a long time. Clearly there are at least 4 teams that could win the State Tournament in Single A, how many have a realistic chance in AA? By the way, all of those teams could make the AA field.

[Just Checking]

Well said... I agree and tend to think Single A, is a far more interesting product. I also agree that at the very top end there isn't much difference between the Champion of AA or A. Why I tend to enjoy A more that the names change! Teams have a run and then move over. Red Wing was at a time the dominant team in Single A, what business would they have as a AA team now... This topic always comes up this time of year because it is playoff time. I think we'd all like to see the best teams on the ice at one time. And I completely agree that winning the Single A title is not something to be sneered. As I've said before the MSHSL set up this problem, But how many Single A titles do you think Lakeville North would have won in the last 10 years. Probably not as many as Hermantown (1)! People should stop looking down on these programs and enjoy what will undoubtedly be one of the best Single A tournament fields in a long time. Clearly there are at least 4 teams that could win the State Tournament in Single A, how many have a realistic chance in AA? By the way, all of those teams could make the AA field.

If you have an Iphone look at this post on it. The clapping hands go off the borders and screen!!! Impressive, you really love Teds post, awesome.

[Froggy Richards]

Well said... I agree and tend to think Single A, is a far more interesting product. I also agree that at the very top end there isn't much difference between the Champion of AA or A. Why I tend to enjoy A more that the names change! Teams have a run and then move over. Red Wing was at a time the dominant team in Single A, what business would they have as a AA team now... This topic always comes up this time of year because it is playoff time. I think we'd all like to see the best teams on the ice at one time. And I completely agree that winning the Single A title is not something to be sneered. As I've said before the MSHSL set up this problem, But how many Single A titles do you think Lakeville North would have won in the last 10 years. Probably not as many as Hermantown (1)! People should stop looking down on these programs and enjoy what will undoubtedly be one of the best Single A tournament fields in a long time. Clearly there are at least 4 teams that could win the State Tournament in Single A, how many have a realistic chance in AA? By the way, all of those teams could make the AA field.

If you have an Iphone look at this post on it. The clapping hands go off the borders and screen!!! Impressive, you really love Teds post, awesome.

He lives in Hermantown. If you haven't heard, they love the current setup!