NAHA

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:30 am

Looks like the Minnesota teams did well at NAHA.

http://www.winter-hawks.org/page/show/1 ... ament-2015

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:01 am

observer wrote:Looks like the Minnesota teams did well at NAHA.

http://www.winter-hawks.org/page/show/1 ... ament-2015

Yes MN teams did real good sweeping both the U19 and U16 brackets.

U19 Whitecaps Black beat Chicago Mission 2-1 in championship.

U16 MN OS Selects went undefeated and beat Stoney Creek in Championship 3-0! (MN team was all 00s and a 01)

U19 MN Ice Cats lost in semis to Mission in a shootout,

Great job by all!!

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:16 am

Pretty cool considering the MN teams are generally younger and often don't play together as a team in comparison to the competition.

Where do you think the Minnesota girls shined vs. opponents?

Awesome job!

Knight7 · Post by **Knight7** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:23 am

Where do the Minny kids shine question.

I believe it is their creativity and pond hockey mentality. As you mentioned that for the most part they are talented but thrown together teams that don't practice as a team. They are given the tools by many coaches and instructors but it comes down to their natural instincts, their athleticism and compete level.
All the other teams are year round programs that run systems and that takes them far but become predictable, I believe.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:21 pm

Knight7 wrote:Where do the Minny kids shine question.

I believe it is their creativity and pond hockey mentality. As you mentioned that for the most part they are talented but thrown together teams that don't practice as a team. They are given the tools by many coaches and instructors but it comes down to their natural instincts, their athleticism and compete level.
All the other teams are year round programs that run systems and that takes them far but become predictable, I believe.

I'm confused why this thread is stating that most of these elite teams are "thrown together" for the big tourneys. I don't know the background of every team and skater but many of these girls/teams have been playing with and against one another for 5+ years. Sure a few subs get picked up either short term or long term, but the core of some teams plays together outside of the MSHSL spring, summer, fall.

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote: I'm confused why this thread is stating that most of these elite teams are "thrown together" for the big tourneys. I don't know the background of every team and skater but many of these girls/teams have been playing with and against one another for 5+ years. Sure a few subs get picked up either short term or long term, but the core of some teams plays together outside of the MSHSL spring, summer, fall.

While this is true, I don't think these teams spend countless hours practicing systems like their competition. They are together, but mostly play games and tourneys, so I could understand how they would have a more creative flow then a robotic systems feel.

I think it comes down to talent, and IMO we have more top end talent in MN right now than ever before. It's a fun time to be part of MN girls hockey.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:36 pm

Agreed. That makes sense, thanks.

Knight7 · Post by **Knight7** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:21 am

Thrown together:

My daughter skated with her Whitecap teammates when they played in tourneys only. She wasn't a pick up player to fill their roster.

During summer training on Mon/Wed she skated with 40 kids at Fogerty at OS with Winny, maybe 4 of them were WC's. Tues/Thurs she skated at Drake with 40 other kids and maybe 1 or 2 were WC's. On Mon/Wed nites Winny allowed her to skate with the college D1 skaters because they were short a couple of spots. On any day there was a Spring or Fall league game she sat in the stands and waited to be asked to skate for any team that was short players, nothing to do with WC's for practice purposes.

I know the WC's ran things a little different this year with one of the teams but not the other. So if things has changed then my daughter wasn't part of it. The two teams that went out her year were all uncommitted players that ended up 11-2 both losing to Assabet the defending Nat'l champs. One lost in the 1st game off the tourney and the other in the championship game. We had no set PP or PK. It was who was up next, and each game a different set of starters.

She as were all her teammates on the WC teams were self-motivated, athletic and had a great want to compete, to win.

Thrown together.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:59 pm

A couple weeks back I was working at the BMW plant in Munich, Germany. The gentleman I was working for has a 9 year old son who plays in goal. They regularly travel hundreds of miles to play games. Hundreds of miles for 9 year olds! He couldn't believe that most of my daughter's games are within 10 miles of our home or that they play 25 games during such a short season. When I told him about the boys HS hockey tournament I'm sure he thought I was making things up.

We have a very sweet deal here.

sinbin · Post by **sinbin** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:04 am

Thanks, LEPD, for reminding us to count our blessings.

itsfoilcoach · Post by **itsfoilcoach** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:08 pm

These kids are handpicked by a business that wants to make up a good product to make more money. More than likely these girls have played together many times before. (as nevertoomuchhockey states). There is nothing wrong with putting a good product on the ice to pay her bills though... or pick your hockey camp and insert name here. Also, nothing wrong with coaching high school (with business partners from your camp) and starting a business with those high school players from the surrounding schools that you coach at (okay, that one could be an issue for some maybe) But - talent is talent however you put them together. News flash here for some - Putting a name in front of your chest also doesn't make the player, or reserve a D1 dorm room. Have you watched how much skill development takes place at camps like Os, or others like it, not much at all frankly. It’s about making a buck, having fun, inserting a fore-check, a back - check, and having you pay your b$ll when you’re done. Don’t forget to buy your baseball cap or sweatshirts however so we know who you are. These leagues/camps do serve somewhat of a purpose however; it’s a good gauge to find out where you stand against other talented athletes'. Not to forget the benefit of some good off season general conditioning for the players. But the road is simple for success - Good grades, talent, and hard work on skills skills skills. When those align, (and Winney can't do those for them) then maybe the athlete could be one of the lucky 2% that gets that sport scholarship- Just calling a spade a spade here.

Hard water fan · Post by **Hard water fan** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:02 am

Foil is spot on. Team Reebok/Whitecaps owe all of their success, IMO, to a couple of Dad's (and Moms) that understood what it took to help bring their girls to a higher level. Their core group had played together for years- several are from that fabulous Centennial 12A team that won state, what now seens like forever ago. I don't think Mr. Peterson or Ms. Brodt has or had anything to do with their success or opportunity to play collegiately for that matter. They were already really good before that wagon pulled into town.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:38 pm

Hard water fan wrote:Foil is spot on. Team Reebok/Whitecaps owe all of their success, IMO, to a couple of Dad's (and Moms) that understood what it took to help bring their girls to a higher level. Their core group had played together for years- several are from that fabulous Centennial 12A team that won state, what now seens like forever ago. I don't think Mr. Peterson or Ms. Brodt has or had anything to do with their success or opportunity to play collegiately for that matter. They were already really good before that wagon pulled into town.

I don't know enough of the back story of OS from its earliest days in MN, but whether they developed or gathered the most talented girls to play under them (prob some of both) they certainly have influenced and created more local showcasing and bringing top college scouts into the metro to watch a ton of talented girls who may never get a chance to play at NAHA or Stoney Creek or Beantown. Weekend after weekend OS and friends have D1, D3, national team coaches on their benches and in the stands for their tourneys and camps and leagues. And there are more and more every event. For the 95, 96, 97 girls of course they can't take full credit for the homegrown talent and college puck commitments. But if you look at the 97, 98, 99, 00 girls coming through right now, other than the girls out in Maine, lots of them are getting looked at and courted right here at home under the OS umbrella.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:30 am

I'm not familiar with how college recruiting works.
Were the 95, 96, and 97 girls prior to the opening of the umbrella?
How did the coaches find those girls?
Have/will the number of commitments increased from the 95,96,97 to the 97,98,99,00?
Have coaches stopped looking for girls outside the umbrella, now that it's open?
I guess if it's the only bridge to where you want to go, you have to pay the toll.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 am

Before OS there was a program called CODP which was the major summer development program for the USOC. They lost most of there funding about the time Winny started OS. Give Winny credit she is about girls hockey period. That is the reason the Umbrella is so big. I have yet to hear a bad word said about her program from anybody. She has also cultivated her contacts from when she played and turned them into a major tool. My daughter has made so many friends from other cities and states from just being a part of OS and she loves playing on low key teams that have success. Over the course of the summer she has had on the bench during her games the head coaches from North Dakota, The U-18 national team, UNH, Team Canada, and BSU, I am sure I am missing somebody. Players don't need to travel out of state to be seen.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Players don't need to travel out of state to be seen.

Do they need to get under the umbrella to be seen?

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:52 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
Players don't need to travel out of state to be seen.
Do they need to get under the umbrella to be seen?

If the stats don't tell the story of a top player on a top team, and she isn't playing outstate showcases, probably. But that doesn't necessarily mean an OS or Whitecaps team. WBB has influence and interest in just about every elite game, camp, showcase 9 months a year. The peripheral programs are growing rapidly as well.

I'd also add - who do you want to be seen by? Lots of local coaches and scouts at (some) HP and hit or miss big holiday tourneys.

Inigo your question is the heart of the matter, really. It would be interesting to see if the total college puck commitments overall have trended upward with the rise of the OS/Prospects/Elite model, or it's just a matter of how and where the MN players are grabbing attention.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:48 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
Players don't need to travel out of state to be seen.
Do they need to get under the umbrella to be seen?

No Anyone can sign up but it helps obviously they will give preference to her girls.

pepperpot · Post by **pepperpot** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:04 pm

Give Winny credit she is all about $$ along with pied peterson. Smart lady.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:12 pm

zambonidriver wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:
Players don't need to travel out of state to be seen.
Do they need to get under the umbrella to be seen?
No Anyone can sign up but it helps obviously they will give preference to her girls.

We've been asking around in anticipation of what comes next for our daughter, and it seems to be common knowledge that the waiting lists for all the summer OS programs were sold out by January and they could have filled 3 more arenas. Anyone can sign up, but not anyone gets to play? I wonder how far they can grow the program and still maintain it's elite status and draw the crowds, coaches, scouts. Given that the actual girls Elite league is turning down so many, and the second tier fall league gets easier to fill every year, it's a cautious balance.
And a heck of a lot of $$$.
Maybe I'll buy a new boat instead.

36Guy · Post by **36Guy** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:22 am

What do you need to do to get exposure? NOTHING..they will find you! Everyone talks about these coaches like they have their head in the sand and it takes Winny or god forbid someone like me to pull it out. Recruiting is these coaches job, I repeat..their job! These coaches know every kid from A-Z, good and bad. They attend high school games, prospects, AAA tournaments, Detroit, Elite league, Beantown, NAPS, Selects USA and Europe, PWHL, Provincials, practices at high schools and everywhere in between. In additions they are talking to coaches, camp directors and Elite players getting all the feedback they can. I attended NAHA and I am talking to coaches who are yawning because they have seen the kids a hundred times.

The great players get snatched up young and good soon follow. The last is the fringe player who just wants to have a great college experience and play hockey. Often this player is close but a "scout" just wants to see a "little bit of improvement". This player often goes to as many "events" as possible to get the infamous "EXPOSURE"!. Meanwhile, this player has not shot a puck, stick handled in the garage, went and ran hills, worked out etc. So that college coach see's the same product over and over.

I am aware that this does not apply to everyone, but my advice to these players is, if you are a bubble player, change your game between exposure events. Go dark for a few months and work your ass off....off ice!

Keeping in mind every time you are on the ice you are getting exposure or getting exposed. As Brad Frost said "How are you going to play when I sneak in the back door of South St Paul arena on a cold January day to watch you practice and you don't know I'm there."

Last, there has been a lot talk about Winny and O's. We have been on the outside and the inside and enjoyed both. I personally think Winny provides excellent opportunities and venues for girls to play. Without many of her events parents would have to travel and costs would rise. She is a women who has been there and done it and the girls respect her. We have had a great experience.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:43 am

36, you hit right on the head. You still can't commit until you are eligible and then you have to clear the clearing house. Winny does make a very good living and obviously her services are in demand. All of the girls get a chance to play games in her program and are always being evaluated. If kids show they can compete they get invited to play on a team. For all you nay sayers out there who else puts girls FIRST. She gets female D1 players to coach her teams people the girls respect and admire. The cost is no more expensive than any other program and cheaper than some and the girls get a chance to play other sports and do kid things in the summer. I guess I drink the red black Kool-aid

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:17 am

"You still can't commit until you are eligible"

??? You mean NLI committed, or I'm announcing on twitter committed?

jg2112 · Post by **jg2112** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:31 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:"You still can't commit until you are eligible"

??? You mean NLI committed, or I'm announcing on twitter committed?

He must mean the latter. Grace Zumwinkle and Emily Brown both committed last fall as sophomores.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:29 am

jg2112 wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:"You still can't commit until you are eligible"

??? You mean NLI committed, or I'm announcing on twitter committed?
He must mean the latter. Grace Zumwinkle and Emily Brown both committed last fall as sophomores.

Until you sign the letter you are not actually committed. You can verbally commit but that is non binding.

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