7A 2015-2016 Prediction

[Scout716]

in my opinion the AA / A system is set up for only 1 weekend a year. State Tournament time. To get away from the A teams playing an All AA schedule, until section time, they should make it mandatory that if you claim to be an A team your schedule needs to reflect that. At least half, or more, of their regular season games should be scheduled with single A opponents. Currently their are a number of A teams getting the best of both worlds, They play a AA tough schedule, plus get their students TV exposure of a State Tournament.
I do not know the answer, but would kids transfer as much to a school like Hermantown if they played a single A schedule? or would the transferring stop if they chose to play AA and even their playing field? School size does not predict the strength of its hockey team. My son played for a top 10 school in the state by enrollment, however they are lucky to have 45 - 50 players tryout for their hockey team.

[zooomx]

in my opinion the AA / A system is set up for only 1 weekend a year. State Tournament time. To get away from the A teams playing an All AA schedule, until section time, they should make it mandatory that if you claim to be an A team your schedule needs to reflect that. At least half, or more, of their regular season games should be scheduled with single A opponents. Currently their are a number of A teams getting the best of both worlds, They play a AA tough schedule, plus get their students TV exposure of a State Tournament.
I do not know the answer, but would kids transfer as much to a school like Hermantown if they played a single A schedule? or would the transferring stop if they chose to play AA and even their playing field? School size does not predict the strength of its hockey team. My son played for a top 10 school in the state by enrollment, however they are lucky to have 45 - 50 players tryout for their hockey team.

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

[Hermhawkey]

I don't understand all the "Hermantown must move to AA" angst. Is 6 straight trips to the state tourney finals impressive? Of course, but how many times have they won it all? Until they run off 3-4 championships in a short period of time, I think let them play where they want to. Should East Grand Forks move to AA because it's unfair they are so dominate with 2 straight titles? I would guess the EGF folks appreciate their titles that lead through a great Hermantown team much more than if Hermantown had moved out of A years ago.

I know, lets take the top A teams and force them to move up each year and bring weak AA teams down to A. Please stop the insanity. The "A" landscape is better off with quality teams in the class, like Hermantown, East Grand Forks, etc.

If a team plays in AA all through youth, plays a mostly AA high school schedule, and would be at least in the top 15 in AA every year, shouldn't they just be in AA? Especially if that team takes open enrollment students from a metro area of 150,000 people?

As for EGF, they had the group of a generation come through. They play A at the youth levels, a high school schedule that is nearly all A, and they will come back to earth the next few years. The two situations are completely different.

Yes. Hermantown's top youth teams play AA schools. But, rarely do they win! My son is a BAA this year. We haven't beat any of the big metro program teams we have played this year. Not sure if any of our past PW or Bantam teams have either. We can usually field a top 6 forward/top 3-4 D that compete with anyone but after that it gets thin. That is the difference. Big schools come at you with 3-4 really good lines. Rarely can we close out a game. Same thing would happen at the HS level. Playing all AA we would likely be sub .500. At least then all the hater's (Froggy) would be happy.
until that that changes, hater's will hate. FWIW I like where we are and couldn't be happier having my boys in this program.

[rainier]

in my opinion the AA / A system is set up for only 1 weekend a year. State Tournament time. To get away from the A teams playing an All AA schedule, until section time, they should make it mandatory that if you claim to be an A team your schedule needs to reflect that. At least half, or more, of their regular season games should be scheduled with single A opponents. Currently their are a number of A teams getting the best of both worlds, They play a AA tough schedule, plus get their students TV exposure of a State Tournament.
I do not know the answer, but would kids transfer as much to a school like Hermantown if they played a single A schedule? or would the transferring stop if they chose to play AA and even their playing field? School size does not predict the strength of its hockey team. My son played for a top 10 school in the state by enrollment, however they are lucky to have 45 - 50 players tryout for their hockey team.

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

[rainier]

I don't understand all the "Hermantown must move to AA" angst. Is 6 straight trips to the state tourney finals impressive? Of course, but how many times have they won it all? Until they run off 3-4 championships in a short period of time, I think let them play where they want to. Should East Grand Forks move to AA because it's unfair they are so dominate with 2 straight titles? I would guess the EGF folks appreciate their titles that lead through a great Hermantown team much more than if Hermantown had moved out of A years ago.

I know, lets take the top A teams and force them to move up each year and bring weak AA teams down to A. Please stop the insanity. The "A" landscape is better off with quality teams in the class, like Hermantown, East Grand Forks, etc.

If a team plays in AA all through youth, plays a mostly AA high school schedule, and would be at least in the top 15 in AA every year, shouldn't they just be in AA? Especially if that team takes open enrollment students from a metro area of 150,000 people?

As for EGF, they had the group of a generation come through. They play A at the youth levels, a high school schedule that is nearly all A, and they will come back to earth the next few years. The two situations are completely different.

Yes. Hermantown's top youth teams play AA schools. But, rarely do they win! My son is a BAA this year. We haven't beat any of the big metro program teams we have played this year. Not sure if any of our past PW or Bantam teams have either. We can usually field a top 6 forward/top 3-4 D that compete with anyone but after that it gets thin. That is the difference. Big schools come at you with 3-4 really good lines. Rarely can we close out a game. Same thing would happen at the HS level. Playing all AA we would likely be sub .500. At least then all the hater's (Froggy) would be happy.
until that that changes, hater's will hate. FWIW I like where we are and couldn't be happier having my boys in this program.

So, if they rarely win, why don't they play A then? A top 6 forward and top 3-4 D, but after that it gets thin? Isn't that the definition of a good AA team? Your HS team already plays more than half of its games vs AA teams and they go 22-3 or better most years. To say you would be sub .500 is ludicrous.

This is what bugs me about some Hermantonians, they think that if they can't beat Edina, EP, Tonka, etc. every single time, then they aren't good enough to be in AA. Guess what? No team, A or AA, is good enough to beat these team all the time. And these big associations lose a good chunk of their talent to private schools when they move to HS, something that rarely happens at Hermantown.

To abuse the transitive property slightly, the Hawks beat Rapids 10-1 last year, and Rapids beat East 5-1 and then dominated them in the 7AA final but lost because the East goalie was unconscious. Did you see how East did at state? You can't tell me last year's Hermantown team couldn't have done just as well, especially with 15,000 fans cheering for them giving them extra energy just as they did for East.

Maybe, just maybe, if the Hawks were in AA they would have to suffer through a horrible 18-7 regular season and lose in the 7AA title game. What a tragedy that would be!

Your team competes quite well with other teams in AA at both the youth and HS levels, thus they should be in AA. [/b]

[Hermhawkey]

in my opinion the AA / A system is set up for only 1 weekend a year. State Tournament time. To get away from the A teams playing an All AA schedule, until section time, they should make it mandatory that if you claim to be an A team your schedule needs to reflect that. At least half, or more, of their regular season games should be scheduled with single A opponents. Currently their are a number of A teams getting the best of both worlds, They play a AA tough schedule, plus get their students TV exposure of a State Tournament.
I do not know the answer, but would kids transfer as much to a school like Hermantown if they played a single A schedule? or would the transferring stop if they chose to play AA and even their playing field? School size does not predict the strength of its hockey team. My son played for a top 10 school in the state by enrollment, however they are lucky to have 45 - 50 players tryout for their hockey team.

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

[Hermhawkey]

If a team plays in AA all through youth, plays a mostly AA high school schedule, and would be at least in the top 15 in AA every year, shouldn't they just be in AA? Especially if that team takes open enrollment students from a metro area of 150,000 people?

As for EGF, they had the group of a generation come through. They play A at the youth levels, a high school schedule that is nearly all A, and they will come back to earth the next few years. The two situations are completely different.

Yes. Hermantown's top youth teams play AA schools. But, rarely do they win! My son is a BAA this year. We haven't beat any of the big metro program teams we have played this year. Not sure if any of our past PW or Bantam teams have either. We can usually field a top 6 forward/top 3-4 D that compete with anyone but after that it gets thin. That is the difference. Big schools come at you with 3-4 really good lines. Rarely can we close out a game. Same thing would happen at the HS level. Playing all AA we would likely be sub .500. At least then all the hater's (Froggy) would be happy.
until that that changes, hater's will hate. FWIW I like where we are and couldn't be happier having my boys in this program.

So, if they rarely win, why don't they play A then? A top 6 forward and top 3-4 D, but after that it gets thin? Isn't that the definition of a good AA team? Your HS team already plays more than half of its games vs AA teams and they go 22-3 or better most years. To say you would be sub .500 is ludicrous.

This is what bugs me about some Hermantonians, they think that if they can't beat Edina, EP, Tonka, etc. every single time, then they aren't good enough to be in AA. Guess what? No team, A or AA, is good enough to beat these team all the time. And these big associations lose a good chunk of their talent to private schools when they move to HS, something that rarely happens at Hermantown.

To abuse the transitive property slightly, the Hawks beat Rapids 10-1 last year, and Rapids beat East 5-1 and then dominated them in the 7AA final but lost because the East goalie was unconscious. Did you see how East did at state? You can't tell me last year's Hermantown team couldn't have done just as well, especially with 15,000 fans cheering for them giving them extra energy just as they did for East.

Maybe, just maybe, if the Hawks were in AA they would have to suffer through a horrible 18-7 regular season and lose in the 7AA title game. What a tragedy that would be!

Your team competes quite well with other teams in AA at both the youth and HS levels, thus they should be in AA. [/b]

Every single time? When have we ever? We have NEVER beat any of those schools mentioned. At any level. East won because of coaching, with some good goal tending mixed in, not because of their talent or depth.

[rainier]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

[zooomx]

in my opinion the AA / A system is set up for only 1 weekend a year. State Tournament time. To get away from the A teams playing an All AA schedule, until section time, they should make it mandatory that if you claim to be an A team your schedule needs to reflect that. At least half, or more, of their regular season games should be scheduled with single A opponents. Currently their are a number of A teams getting the best of both worlds, They play a AA tough schedule, plus get their students TV exposure of a State Tournament.
I do not know the answer, but would kids transfer as much to a school like Hermantown if they played a single A schedule? or would the transferring stop if they chose to play AA and even their playing field? School size does not predict the strength of its hockey team. My son played for a top 10 school in the state by enrollment, however they are lucky to have 45 - 50 players tryout for their hockey team.

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Ok, for one thing, you make the youth association and high school program sound like one entity. Not sure about Hermantown, but I don't think these class decisions are made together. Separate entities, separate decisions.

I am not from Hermantown, nor am I a big supporter. I am quite a bit west and south. I just think this is all blown out of proportion. Could they go Class AA and compete? Definitely. Should they feel guilty for finishing second in state 6 years in a row? I don't think so. They have a HUGE target on their back every year, and we all hope to be the one to take them out of the picture.

If Hermantown is guilty of anything, it is running a rock solid Youth Association that is probably the result of a lot of hard work by a lot of dedicated coaches and volunteer parents. They have a storied high school program that takes the talent they are given and wins. I have no idea if they recruit from the Duluth area, or if families open enroll on their own to be part of the success. If I am a leader at one of those other schools, I look in the mirror and ask "what can we do better?" If they win 2-3 state titles in the next few years, then I might join the complainers.

[zooomx]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

Or... maybe they thought about moving up this year or next year, and the Duluth Marshall situation scares them a bit. Possibly, they are in "wait and see" mode.

[zooomx]

Below are Plante's quotes from a story in the Star and Tribune in March.

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

They only have 35-40 players trying out? Sounds like they just develop players very well. Honestly, I find it amazing that they have the success they do have with that small of a base to build from.

[rainier]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

Or... maybe they thought about moving up this year or next year, and the Duluth Marshall situation scares them a bit. Possibly, they are in "wait and see" mode.

Wait and see for another decade? They are good enough now.

And as far as the youth and high school teams being separate entities, Plante is on record saying that he controls the youth association. So he must sign off on playing in AA.

And youth teams were designated as being A or AA based on the HS hockey status of the schools they a related to. Thus, Hermantown opts up to play AA at youth levels, and they are the only team that does so.

[Hermhawkey]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

Youth Hockey hub seems very unreliable but I will take your word for it...for instance it has us losing to New Prague this year who we haven't even played. I agree it is a compliment but when I see Edina and such with their 12 bantam levels against our 3....I just wouldn't feel bad for winning. I am not saying there hasn't been a team or two capable of going all the way in AA. At this point we are talking extreme long shot the likes of Roseau ever doing it again. This is a new world of hockey now from when that happened last.

[rainier]

Below are Plante's quotes from a story in the Star and Tribune in March.

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

They only have 35-40 players trying out? Sounds like they just develop players very well. Honestly, I find it amazing that they have the success they do have with that small of a base to build from.

They allow open enrollment and are in a metro area of 150,000 people, where there are three AA teams, one of the largest A teams, and another A team, all within 10 minute driving distance from Hermantown. Small base? Hardly.

Hermantown has a GREAT program. I and others have never disputed this. Would people be calling for a terrible program to opt up?

The reality is that they are not small town hockey such as they have promoted themselves to be.

And Plante saying "everyone should move up if they have a good team a few years in a row." Bruce, you've had a good team for over a decade! It's time to be like George Jefferson and be movin' on up!

[Hermhawkey]

b]


Ok, for one thing, you make the youth association and high school program sound like one entity. Not sure about Hermantown, but I don't think these class decisions are made together. Separate entities, separate decisions.

I am not from Hermantown, nor am I a big supporter. I am quite a bit west and south. I just think this is all blown out of proportion. Could they go Class AA and compete? Definitely. Should they feel guilty for finishing second in state 6 years in a row? I don't think so. They have a HUGE target on their back every year, and we all hope to be the one to take them out of the picture.

If Hermantown is guilty of anything, it is running a rock solid Youth Association that is probably the result of a lot of hard work by a lot of dedicated coaches and volunteer parents. They have a storied high school program that takes the talent they are given and wins. I have no idea if they recruit from the Duluth area, or if families open enroll on their own to be part of the success. If I am a leader at one of those other schools, I look in the mirror and ask "what can we do better?" If they win 2-3 state titles in the next few years, then I might join the complainers.[/quote]

This very much sums it up

[rainier]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

Youth Hockey hub seems very unreliable but I will take your word for it...for instance it has us losing to New Prague this year who we haven't even played. I agree it is a compliment but when I see Edina and such with their 12 bantam levels against our 3....I just wouldn't feel bad for winning. I am not saying there hasn't been a team or two capable of going all the way in AA. At this point we are talking extreme long shot the likes of Roseau ever doing it again. This is a new world of hockey now from when that happened last.

Yes, but you are not Roseau, or Bemidji, or Grand Rapids. You are Hermantown, a suburb in a metro area of 150,000 people and can continue to grow, just as your school and community are doing now.

I'm jealous of your program. If Hibbing was producing as much talent as Hermantown I would be ecstatic, but I am also 100% sure they would be competing in AA.

I think it's great you parents, coaches, and kids have built such a powerhouse; you all deserve credit for creating yet another northern MN powerhouse. But take the next step. You can beat the teams in 7AA with regularity. Not all the time, but more often than not I bet. I guarantee going to state in AA 3 times in 10 years is better than going to state in A every year.

I'm glad your kids love Hermantown and I honestly wish you the best. I just want to see you guys in the AA tourney so I can watch the whole state get behind you and root for you to beat the evil metro megaschools.

[zooomx]

Below are Plante's quotes from a story in the Star and Tribune in March.

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

They only have 35-40 players trying out? Sounds like they just develop players very well. Honestly, I find it amazing that they have the success they do have with that small of a base to build from.

They allow open enrollment and are in a metro area of 150,000 people, where there are three AA teams, one of the largest A teams, and another A team, all within 10 minute driving distance from Hermantown. Small base? Hardly.

Hermantown has a GREAT program. I and others have never disputed this. Would people be calling for a terrible program to opt up?

The reality is that they are not small town hockey such as they have promoted themselves to be.

And Plante saying "everyone should move up if they have a good team a few years in a row." Bruce, you've had a good team for over a decade! It's time to be like George Jefferson and be movin' on up!

St. Cloud metro area is approximately 190,000 people. St. Cloud Cathedral, Apollo, Tech, Sauk Rapids and Sartell all play "A" hockey. Cathedral pulls kids from the entire area, and I would guess the other schools allow open enrollment. Just sayin'

[rainier]

Below are Plante's quotes from a story in the Star and Tribune in March.

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

They only have 35-40 players trying out? Sounds like they just develop players very well. Honestly, I find it amazing that they have the success they do have with that small of a base to build from.

They allow open enrollment and are in a metro area of 150,000 people, where there are three AA teams, one of the largest A teams, and another A team, all within 10 minute driving distance from Hermantown. Small base? Hardly.

Hermantown has a GREAT program. I and others have never disputed this. Would people be calling for a terrible program to opt up?

The reality is that they are not small town hockey such as they have promoted themselves to be.

And Plante saying "everyone should move up if they have a good team a few years in a row." Bruce, you've had a good team for over a decade! It's time to be like George Jefferson and be movin' on up!

St. Cloud metro area is approximately 190,000 people. St. Cloud Cathedral, Apollo, Tech, Sauk Rapids and Sartell all play "A" hockey. Cathedral pulls kids from the entire area, and I would guess the other schools allow open enrollment. Just sayin'

Yep, and when one of these schools develops their program to the pint of being top 15 in AA every year, then they too should be in AA.

[Hermhawkey]

Something needs to be mention here. My sons team has not one coach that played colllege hockey...there is four. Coaching has been unbelievably good. Lots of good coaching has been one of the many reasons for our success. That and motivated parents/parent coaches helping and keeping up lots of outdoor ice that gets used. My son has two D coaches that played D1 defense. When I played youth hockey we thought we were lucky to even meet a college player. Hermantown has many in the coaching ranks.

[zooomx]

Sorry, but a 30 second search on YHH reveals that just two years ago Hermantown beat Edina, Minnetonka, and Wayzata. (Along with East, Centennial, Elk River, in fact, 3-1-2 vs East that year.) And the year before that you beat LN, East, and Elk River, not to mention regular wins each year over other 7AA foes Rapids and Cloquet. And your team was ranked ahead of EP one of those seasons and ahead of Edina the other season.

Your bantams had a "tougher" season last year due to the loss of 4-5 top kids to Marshall, otherwise the results would be the same: A Hermantown team that beats everyone regularly except for the top 5-6 AA teams in the state, and these teams they still do beat sometimes and are always competitive with.

And as previously stated, those programs will lose much more talent than Hermantown will when transitioning to HS, so that can help even out the depth more.

The point is, Hermantown is top 15 or better in AA almost every season and they have been doing it for a very long time and there is no end in sight, so why not move to AA? Is the thought of maybe not going to state for a year that hard to bear? Does a regular season winning percentage below .900 cause you to break out in hives?

People calling for your team to opt up is a great compliment; they are telling you you are too good for where you are. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want your team/program to take the next step and get even better? Or is the "having the cake and eating it too" of playing AA all through youth and regular season but yet still being able to get to state every year in A too delicious to pass up?

Youth Hockey hub seems very unreliable but I will take your word for it...for instance it has us losing to New Prague this year who we haven't even played. I agree it is a compliment but when I see Edina and such with their 12 bantam levels against our 3....I just wouldn't feel bad for winning. I am not saying there hasn't been a team or two capable of going all the way in AA. At this point we are talking extreme long shot the likes of Roseau ever doing it again. This is a new world of hockey now from when that happened last.

Yes, but you are not Roseau, or Bemidji, or Grand Rapids. You are Hermantown, a suburb in a metro area of 150,000 people and can continue to grow, just as your school and community are doing now.

I'm jealous of your program. If Hibbing was producing as much talent as Hermantown I would be ecstatic, but I am also 100% sure they would be competing in AA.

I think it's great you parents, coaches, and kids have built such a powerhouse; you all deserve credit for creating yet another northern MN powerhouse. But take the next step. You can beat the teams in 7AA with regularity. Not all the time, but more often than not I bet. I guarantee going to state in AA 3 times in 10 years is better than going to state in A every year.

I'm glad your kids love Hermantown and I honestly wish you the best. I just want to see you guys in the AA tourney so I can watch the whole state get behind you and root for you to beat the evil metro megaschools.

Ok, I see now. Maybe, if Hermantown was in my section, I might be as passionate about this as you are. BTW- I love our trips up to Hibbing for your tournaments. There is a lot of cool history and tradition up there and believe me, I root hard for you guys to knock Hermantown out one of these years.

Let me ask a question. Is your youth program as strong as it can be in terms of numbers? Or are you maxed out?

[Froggy Richards]

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

Enrollment? I watched your Squirt A team beat Andover yesterday. 7 out of 14 kids on that roster, including the brand new goalie, are Duluth and Proctor Kids. That's half the team. Add up the enrollments of Hermantown, Proctor and Denfeld and you are right around 1900, same as Edina.

[green4]

Below are Plante's quotes from a story in the Star and Tribune in March.

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

They only have 35-40 players trying out? Sounds like they just develop players very well. Honestly, I find it amazing that they have the success they do have with that small of a base to build from.

They allow open enrollment and are in a metro area of 150,000 people, where there are three AA teams, one of the largest A teams, and another A team, all within 10 minute driving distance from Hermantown. Small base? Hardly.

Hermantown has a GREAT program. I and others have never disputed this. Would people be calling for a terrible program to opt up?

The reality is that they are not small town hockey such as they have promoted themselves to be.

And Plante saying "everyone should move up if they have a good team a few years in a row." Bruce, you've had a good team for over a decade! It's time to be like George Jefferson and be movin' on up!

St. Cloud metro area is approximately 190,000 people. St. Cloud Cathedral, Apollo, Tech, Sauk Rapids and Sartell all play "A" hockey. Cathedral pulls kids from the entire area, and I would guess the other schools allow open enrollment. Just sayin'

Apollo and Tech both have very low numbers and are forming a co-op next year, so not really a great example.
I was shocked to see St. Cloud at a larger metro than Duluth so I looked it up. The website that said St. Cloud had 190,000 people, also said Duluth had 280,000 in their metro, so again not really a great example.

[Hermhawkey]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

Enrollment? I watched your Squirt A team beat Andover yesterday. 7 out of 14 kids on that roster, including the brand new goalie, are Duluth and Proctor Kids. That's half the team. Add up the enrollments of Hermantown, Proctor and Denfeld and you are right around 1900, same as Edina.

By the time the Squirts are HS level I predict we will be AA. And then you will whine about that.

[zooomx]

They allow open enrollment and are in a metro area of 150,000 people, where there are three AA teams, one of the largest A teams, and another A team, all within 10 minute driving distance from Hermantown. Small base? Hardly.

Hermantown has a GREAT program. I and others have never disputed this. Would people be calling for a terrible program to opt up?

The reality is that they are not small town hockey such as they have promoted themselves to be.

And Plante saying "everyone should move up if they have a good team a few years in a row." Bruce, you've had a good team for over a decade! It's time to be like George Jefferson and be movin' on up!

St. Cloud metro area is approximately 190,000 people. St. Cloud Cathedral, Apollo, Tech, Sauk Rapids and Sartell all play "A" hockey. Cathedral pulls kids from the entire area, and I would guess the other schools allow open enrollment. Just sayin'

Apollo and Tech both have very low numbers and are forming a co-op next year, so not really a great example.
I was shocked to see St. Cloud at a larger metro than Duluth so I looked it up. The website that said St. Cloud had 190,000 people, also said Duluth had 280,000 in their metro, so again not really a great example.

My point on population is that it doesn't necessarily dictate AA/A designation. There are plenty of A teams in the metro area with huge populations all around them.

[Hermhawkey]

Proctor....that hockey hotbed. If I lived there and was serious about hockey and education I would open enroll too. Just 10 minutes away. Enrollment is enrollment