Girls HS Hockey in Major Decline

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Nevertoomuchhockey
Posts: 1138
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm

Post by Nevertoomuchhockey »

panpan111 wrote:I guess I have done it all wrong! My daughter grew up in a great Association that had great #'s (due to recruiting elementary kids) along with great coaches. Served on the board so the girls would have a voice at ALL meetings. Found a great Summer Team with a great coach and we played locally & traveled to play the best talent we could find in Canada, Chicago, Michigan, Italy, via Planes, Trains, & Automobiles...whatever we had to do to make it affordable for everyone on our team. To offset expenses we formed our own Tournament in the summer to raise $$$ to fund much of our expense. Lastly, we decided to send our daughter to Private School. All wrong? According to who?
My point is simple. Anybody can hide behind a screen name and whine about how everything is so wrong with Girls Hockey, Privates, Try-outs, Summer AAA Hockey, Hockey Camps, participation #'s, etc., but it really comes down to everyone doing something to solve the problem. If you don't have #'s...RECRUIT, if you don't have $...FUNDRAISE, if you don't like your Association's direction it is headed for girls hockey...GET ON THE BOARD! If you don't like the MSHSL decisions...GO TO A MEETINGS! If you don't like the Talent Gap on HS teams...WORK HARDER!
Our MN Hockey Experience has been beyond what I ever imagined. Proud of our MN Hockey (Boys & Girls)! All the Parents, Coaches, Kids we have met along the way has blessed me with memories & friendships that will last a lifetime!
Amen.
Not sure how anyone can disagree with this, but pretty sure I know who will. Wait for it, wait for it....
itsfoilcoach
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by itsfoilcoach »

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:
panpan111 wrote:I guess I have done it all wrong! My daughter grew up in a great Association that had great #'s (due to recruiting elementary kids) along with great coaches. Served on the board so the girls would have a voice at ALL meetings. Found a great Summer Team with a great coach and we played locally & traveled to play the best talent we could find in Canada, Chicago, Michigan, Italy, via Planes, Trains, & Automobiles...whatever we had to do to make it affordable for everyone on our team. To offset expenses we formed our own Tournament in the summer to raise $$$ to fund much of our expense. Lastly, we decided to send our daughter to Private School. All wrong? According to who?
My point is simple. Anybody can hide behind a screen name and whine about how everything is so wrong with Girls Hockey, Privates, Try-outs, Summer AAA Hockey, Hockey Camps, participation #'s, etc., but it really comes down to everyone doing something to solve the problem. If you don't have #'s...RECRUIT, if you don't have $...FUNDRAISE, if you don't like your Association's direction it is headed for girls hockey...GET ON THE BOARD! If you don't like the MSHSL decisions...GO TO A MEETINGS! If you don't like the Talent Gap on HS teams...WORK HARDER!
Our MN Hockey Experience has been beyond what I ever imagined. Proud of our MN Hockey (Boys & Girls)! All the Parents, Coaches, Kids we have met along the way has blessed me with memories & friendships that will last a lifetime!
Amen.
Not sure how anyone can disagree with this, but pretty sure I know who will. Wait for it, wait for it....

My family's selling May baskets for a fundraiser. We thought of Italy, but we're going to Finland for summer training instead. It's a tight budget. But we are planning on flying out later this summer, but first we have to get our arms in shape.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

36Guy wrote:
panpan111 wrote:I guess I have done it all wrong! My daughter grew up in a great Association that had great #'s (due to recruiting elementary kids) along with great coaches. Served on the board so the girls would have a voice at ALL meetings. Found a great Summer Team with a great coach and we played locally & traveled to play the best talent we could find in Canada, Chicago, Michigan, Italy, via Planes, Trains, & Automobiles...whatever we had to do to make it affordable for everyone on our team. To offset expenses we formed our own Tournament in the summer to raise $$$ to fund much of our expense. Lastly, we decided to send our daughter to Private School. All wrong? According to who?
My point is simple. Anybody can hide behind a screen name and whine about how everything is so wrong with Girls Hockey, Privates, Try-outs, Summer AAA Hockey, Hockey Camps, participation #'s, etc., but it really comes down to everyone doing something to solve the problem. If you don't have #'s...RECRUIT, if you don't have $...FUNDRAISE, if you don't like your Association's direction it is headed for girls hockey...GET ON THE BOARD! If you don't like the MSHSL decisions...GO TO A MEETINGS! If you don't like the Talent Gap on HS teams...WORK HARDER!
Our MN Hockey Experience has been beyond what I ever imagined. Proud of our MN Hockey (Boys & Girls)! All the Parents, Coaches, Kids we have met along the way has blessed me with memories & friendships that will last a lifetime!
Amen brother!!
Amen too!!!! Instead of worrying about the mine that is closing and losing my job and my family's livelihood, I should do everything you are doing peterpan. Europe, check - new sticks, check - new skates, check, AAA (hoping 36 does not cut me) check, fundraising, check, board member, check, picketing MSHSL league, check.

Sorry just another out-of-touch parent trying to put lipstick on the pig and trying to justify your recruiting or entitled teams. It is so funny how these kids just magically show up on the same HS teams and the same teams that tend to dominate. And of course there is no issue with that, can't wait for the Luverne barn burner =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
MN_Bowhunter
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:08 am

Post by MN_Bowhunter »

itsfoilcoach wrote:

My family's selling May baskets for a fundraiser. We thought of Italy, but we're going to Finland for summer training instead. It's a tight budget. But we are planning on flying out later this summer, but first we have to get our arms in shape.


Does anybody remember what Achiever was charging for a year's "tuition" a couple years ago? I seem to recall $13,000.

Quick check on Priceline has a round trip ticket to Helsinki for $1,400. You could send the kid back and forth 9 times if you managed your money better.

Sometimes the stars align and everything works out the way it should. After losing the love of my life Letsgetrealpeople (call me, I miss you), a former Achiever parent steps up and sacrifices themselves for the greater good of the forum. Much like William at the battle of Hastings, your presence on this forum has saved it from the invading forces of private school evil. Your posts about goalie stats and private schools that ruin them have United the people of this forum, and they will Pack themselves in at the Ex this week to cheer on their favorite teams. Katie bar the door, it's going to be a wild ride!

Go Lightning!
itsfoilcoach
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by itsfoilcoach »

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
panpan111 wrote:I guess I have done it all wrong! My daughter grew up in a great Association that had great #'s (due to recruiting elementary kids) along with great coaches. Served on the board so the girls would have a voice at ALL meetings. Found a great Summer Team with a great coach and we played locally & traveled to play the best talent we could find in Canada, Chicago, Michigan, Italy, via Planes, Trains, & Automobiles...whatever we had to do to make it affordable for everyone on our team. To offset expenses we formed our own Tournament in the summer to raise $$$ to fund much of our expense. Lastly, we decided to send our daughter to Private School. All wrong? According to who?
My point is simple. Anybody can hide behind a screen name and whine about how everything is so wrong with Girls Hockey, Privates, Try-outs, Summer AAA Hockey, Hockey Camps, participation #'s, etc., but it really comes down to everyone doing something to solve the problem. If you don't have #'s...RECRUIT, if you don't have $...FUNDRAISE, if you don't like your Association's direction it is headed for girls hockey...GET ON THE BOARD! If you don't like the MSHSL decisions...GO TO A MEETINGS! If you don't like the Talent Gap on HS teams...WORK HARDER!
Our MN Hockey Experience has been beyond what I ever imagined. Proud of our MN Hockey (Boys & Girls)! All the Parents, Coaches, Kids we have met along the way has blessed me with memories & friendships that will last a lifetime!
Amen brother!!
Amen too!!!! Instead of worrying about the mine that is closing and losing my job and my family's livelihood, I should do everything you are doing peterpan. Europe, check - new sticks, check - new skates, check, AAA (hoping 36 does not cut me) check, fundraising, check, board member, check, picketing MSHSL league, check.

Sorry just another out-of-touch parent trying to put lipstick on the pig and trying to justify your recruiting or entitled teams. It is so funny how these kids just magically show up on the same HS teams and the same teams that tend to dominate. And of course there is no issue with that, can't wait for the Luverne barn burner =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
In the mean time we are going to take advantage of a broke system, while letting people know I'm willing to fund raise and give handouts to the less fortunate than I. I'm sure that was fun conversations when talking the parents who couldn't afford Italy. But at the same time pointing out to these less fortunate people how they can improve the system that you been using so well. They need a manger like yourself to coordinate these ideas of yours into action. But before I forget, let me say this Mr Goodwill. Thank you for stepping up and showing all the people out there the light, as well as whats wrong with this expensive misguided sport.

By the way a "FORUM" is a place for down trodden people, or persons like yourself to converse on anything they would like. Like you and your Italy adventure, and anything in between... whine included.

Say have an idea how to get our the girls program some media/playing time time on hockey-day in Minnesota next year?
massalsa
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Post by massalsa »

itsfoilcoach wrote: Thank you for stepping up and showing all the people out there the light, as well as whats wrong with this expensive sport.
The last 2 words. "expensive sport".

It is. Its unfortunate for many.

So is golf. So is smoking. So is going to the bar.

What do they do in Russia? What about Canada? Or Michigan or Massachusetts?
itsfoilcoach
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by itsfoilcoach »

massalsa wrote:
itsfoilcoach wrote: Thank you for stepping up and showing all the people out there the light, as well as whats wrong with this expensive sport.
The last 2 words. "expensive sport".

It is. Its unfortunate for many.

So is golf. So is smoking. So is going to the bar.

What do they do in Russia? What about Canada? Or Michigan or Massachusetts?
Leave the bar out of it. They have a happy hour!

Canada uses out door rinks in the summer.
karl(east)
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Contact:

Post by karl(east) »

Just a reminder to stay on topic here and not use this as a forum to call out individuals.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

This is great with the newbies, too bad these teams are not the ones in the championship game. That would certainly create interest for the fans and the girls in those communities. Good for Luverne and Northfield and good luck to all those girls tomorrow!

And per the moderator we will stay on topic, must have hurt someone's ego who already had their ticket punched to the X.... NOT.... gives me even more pleasure seeing EP at the X. Good luck to the Community based Screaming Eagles, the TRUE champion of Section 2! KARMA


5. Faces fresh and familiar

Four teams are making their state tournament debuts: Luverne and Northfield in Class 1A, and Maple Grove and Sartell/Sauk Rapids in Class 2A. The payoff is extra sweet for Luverne coach Tony Sandbulte. In 2013-14, he jumped from the Cardinals boys’ program to the girls and missed the boys’ first state appearance. Maple Grove coach Amber Hegland, meanwhile, led a second program to its first state tournament. Her first came with Wayzata in 2005.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

Boom and bust?

Impressive as the talent level might be, the sport still is fighting its share of issues.

The Hopkins girls’ hockey team, which made deep runs in the state playoffs in 2009 and 2010, didn’t exist this past season — at least not completely. Hopkins formed a co-op with St. Louis Park before the seasons because of shrinking numbers for both schools.

Erickson said this wasn’t exactly a shock. In Hopkins, youth participation fell from 74 players in 2012 to 54 in 2015. Statewide, 8U participation in girls’ hockey fell 5.7 percent between 2011-12 and 2012-13. Hockey is an expensive sport that has struggled to appeal to diverse demographics. Statewide, numbers at the youth level coincided closely with the U.S. economy’s slow recovery from The Great Recession.

“It’s a little frustrating to see programs that were in the state tournament three or four years ago, that brought medals home, and now numbers are so small that they have to co-op,” Sager said.

The 115 teams in the state is down from 121 in 2011-12. Fifty-five of the teams participate in a co-op, but that doesn’t mean the skill level has dropped. In fact, state coaches tend to agree at least some of the participation drop is related to the growth of talent in the game

“It was no longer, ‘This is the state of hockey, people are going to play,’ ” said Glen Andresen, Minnesota Hockey’s executive director. “There was a realization that we need to go out and bring girls into the sport and make the sport accessible.”

Perfect way to promote girls hockey by having B & B play Class A
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:13 am

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY »

thegreatone99 wrote:Boom and bust?

Impressive as the talent level might be, the sport still is fighting its share of issues.

The Hopkins girls’ hockey team, which made deep runs in the state playoffs in 2009 and 2010, didn’t exist this past season — at least not completely. Hopkins formed a co-op with St. Louis Park before the seasons because of shrinking numbers for both schools.

Erickson said this wasn’t exactly a shock. In Hopkins, youth participation fell from 74 players in 2012 to 54 in 2015. Statewide, 8U participation in girls’ hockey fell 5.7 percent between 2011-12 and 2012-13. Hockey is an expensive sport that has struggled to appeal to diverse demographics. Statewide, numbers at the youth level coincided closely with the U.S. economy’s slow recovery from The Great Recession.

“It’s a little frustrating to see programs that were in the state tournament three or four years ago, that brought medals home, and now numbers are so small that they have to co-op,” Sager said.

The 115 teams in the state is down from 121 in 2011-12. Fifty-five of the teams participate in a co-op, but that doesn’t mean the skill level has dropped. In fact, state coaches tend to agree at least some of the participation drop is related to the growth of talent in the game

“It was no longer, ‘This is the state of hockey, people are going to play,’ ” said Glen Andresen, Minnesota Hockey’s executive director. “There was a realization that we need to go out and bring girls into the sport and make the sport accessible.”

Perfect way to promote girls hockey by having B & B play Class A
Hey, I agree and think a large # of people agree that these two privates should opt up. However, you continue to say the same thing over and over and it is getting tiresome. I agree they should opt up, but your continued rants almost have me rooting for the privates now.

If these privates along with SPU eventually move up, the MSHL should just change the classification of the two tournament to what they really are, the Class "A" Championship and the Class "B" Championship.

For me personally, if Warroad, Blake, SPU and I guess even P/H, were not in this tournament, I would certainly be less apt to going down to the X to watch. I have had my fill of subpar hockey, watching the Mississippi 8 teams this year and don't want to spend a day down at the X watching more of the same, especially in a Championship game!

Don't get me wrong, I love watching all levels of hockey, but a Laverne/Northfield state tournament title game, does not really peak my interest. I am sure it would have a lot of interest from the Laverne and Northfield residents, but probably not too many others. I would venture to guess that there would be about the same amount of fans for either a SPU/Blake Championship game or a Laverne/Northfield Championship game - but the SPU/Blake game would be played at a much higher level and more fun to watch. It would certainly draw more interest from the people not affiliated with the programs, just because of the level of hockey being played and some of the names on the back of the jerseys.

Not saying it is right, just saying having quality teams in the tournament, certainly makes it more fun to watch and it certainly does promote girls hockey. Maybe not the way you want or desire, but it does. My daughter knows who most every girl on the Blake, SPU, Warroad and P/H rosters are, but couldn't name one on any of the other 4 and certainly wouldn't have any interest in going down to the X and watching them. But that is just us, not speaking for everyone.
Bulldog3489
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:52 pm

Post by Bulldog3489 »

You can put some blame on the AA coaches who schedule these teams during the regular season. If overloaded A teams could only find games against other A teams, elite players would bail. But as long as they can find 20 decent AA teams willing to play, the kids will stay.
warriors41
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Post by warriors41 »

Bulldog3489 wrote:You can put some blame on the AA coaches who schedule these teams during the regular season. If overloaded A teams could only find games against other A teams, elite players would bail. But as long as they can find 20 decent AA teams willing to play, the kids will stay.
Besides one trip to the cities Warroad plays almost entirely an A schedule and people still move into the school system. Something about free, unlimited ice time year round is appealing to these players.
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 188
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Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY »

warriors41 wrote:
Bulldog3489 wrote:You can put some blame on the AA coaches who schedule these teams during the regular season. If overloaded A teams could only find games against other A teams, elite players would bail. But as long as they can find 20 decent AA teams willing to play, the kids will stay.
Besides one trip to the cities Warroad plays almost entirely an A schedule and people still move into the school system. Something about free, unlimited ice time year round is appealing to these players.
True, they do offer a lot of free stuff to play there. I think it was directed at the privates more so than small town teams.

Warrior41, do you think Warroad would stay at the level they are playing, if the MSHL change the 2nd tier Tournament to Class "B"? Would there be pressure from the hockey community to opt up as Roseau did or would the Marvin's be content fielding a Championship team at the B level?
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

It would certainly draw more interest from the people not affiliated with the programs, just because of the level of hockey being played and some of the names on the back of the jerseys.

You are right, just what Herbie use to say all the time, it's all about the name on the back of the sweater, not the name on the front of the sweater[/quote]
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:13 am

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY »

thegreatone99 wrote:
It would certainly draw more interest from the people not affiliated with the programs, just because of the level of hockey being played and some of the names on the back of the jerseys.

You are right, just what Herbie use to say all the time, it's all about the name on the back of the sweater, not the name on the front of the sweater[/quote
Last edited by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY on Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:13 am

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY »

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
It would certainly draw more interest from the people not affiliated with the programs, just because of the level of hockey being played and some of the names on the back of the jerseys.

You are right, just what Herbie use to say all the time, it's all about the name on the back of the sweater, not the name on the front of the sweater
Ha! I think he said that to the players on the team, not to the fans in the stands. But I see what you tried to do there. Good effort on your part, I think Herbie would have liked that.[/quote]
Bulldog3489
Posts: 97
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Post by Bulldog3489 »

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
warriors41 wrote:
Bulldog3489 wrote:You can put some blame on the AA coaches who schedule these teams during the regular season. If overloaded A teams could only find games against other A teams, elite players would bail. But as long as they can find 20 decent AA teams willing to play, the kids will stay.
Besides one trip to the cities Warroad plays almost entirely an A schedule and people still move into the school system. Something about free, unlimited ice time year round is appealing to these players.

My comments were mostly directed at the metro privates, but Warroad played about half its games against AA teams including 3 top 10 AA teams.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
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Post by thegreatone99 »

Hats off to Alex, you almost did it. Great representation of your community and hockey program taking on a cobbled together private.

You almost pulled it off. Great job. And Northfield, you held your own, made Warroad work for everything, nice job to all these three teams today, you represent small town community hockey well, what Class A truly represents.
warriors41
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:40 pm

Post by warriors41 »

Bulldog3489 wrote:
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
warriors41 wrote: Besides one trip to the cities Warroad plays almost entirely an A schedule and people still move into the school system. Something about free, unlimited ice time year round is appealing to these players.

My comments were mostly directed at the metro privates, but Warroad played about half its games against AA teams including 3 top 10 AA teams.
That names sense if you only.meant the comment about the metro privates. My misunderstanding. I think I counted 8 games against AA teams on Warroad's schedule. But 5 of those are against Roseau (twice), Bemidji (twice), and Moorhead (once). Those AA schools can't replace warroad with another quality opponent with a comparable drive. They can't really afford to remove Warroad from their schedule to make a political point.

As I said before, Warroad usually travels to the cities to play 2 of either Hill Murray, Edina, and Minnetonka. They could bump Warroad off their schedule and it wouldn't be a problem to replace that game. I can only comment on the Warriors situation, but we don't play enough elite AA teams for that to be the biggest motivator for families deciding to play hockey here. It's really 2-5 games a year depending on how Roseau is that year. The much bigger draw here is the time they can spend on the ice and improve.
warriors41
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:40 pm

Post by warriors41 »

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
warriors41 wrote:
Bulldog3489 wrote:You can put some blame on the AA coaches who schedule these teams during the regular season. If overloaded A teams could only find games against other A teams, elite players would bail. But as long as they can find 20 decent AA teams willing to play, the kids will stay.
Besides one trip to the cities Warroad plays almost entirely an A schedule and people still move into the school system. Something about free, unlimited ice time year round is appealing to these players.
True, they do offer a lot of free stuff to play there. I think it was directed at the privates more so than small town teams.

Warrior41, do you think Warroad would stay at the level they are playing, if the MSHL change the 2nd tier Tournament to Class "B"? Would there be pressure from the hockey community to opt up as Roseau did or would the Marvin's be content fielding a Championship team at the B level?
If by " free stuff " you mean ice time, then yes, its offered to everyone. Just want to make sure because I've people from out of town complain about the Marvin's buying people houses and stuff which is just so ridiculous. We can't offer a top tier education to people like most privates.

I'm not sure about your scenario. Its a debate that comes up every now and then. What I do resent though is the thought that class A is the "B" tournament. It happens more on the boys side and drives me equally nuts. A lot of it is driven by old timers who just want one tournament again. Don't get me wrong, it would be cool but it's not happening. We had a great opportunity to have 2 great hockey tournaments for showcasing the sport. But every team that is pressured to move up takes that away and it's a shame. Now for the boys and girls class A tournament the first day is a joke. It wasn't too long ago that wasn't case.

The people who continually referred to class A as the JV tournament were the ones to blame for these first day slaughters. It wasn't privates, it was the MSHSL, it wasn't the players or coaches chasing trophies. Right now it isn't a second tier tournament. The semi finals and championship games are usually very competitive. Every time someone yells for another accomplished team to move up we get closer to making it a tier 2 tourny though. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

shots 26-0 after one period, 43 attempted, and one attempted for Luverne

You are right, this is a great showcase for showing off girls hockey. Maybe we can get this rematch next year for Hockey Day MN.

There must be a new MSHSL Rule we can ask for the rematch. I think it is 201.3 =D> =D> =D> =D>
warriors41
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:40 pm

Post by warriors41 »

thegreatone99 wrote:You are right, this is a great showcase for showing off girls hockey. Maybe we can get this rematch next year for Hockey Day MN.
One of the games so far has been a blowout. Relax. And if you read what I wrote you'd know I said usually the quarterfinal round is full of blowouts. The morning games this year were actually pretty good. What I do know is that the solutions for the blowouts isn't by lowering the overall quality of teams in the tournament by forcing Breck, Blake, Warroad, or whoever the top team in a certain year is to AA.
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

packed X, losing 6-0, shots 50-0 after two, priceless

You all should be mighty proud of this historic display of dominance by Blake.

My bad, I am the idiot for even thinking this is wrong...
thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 »

60 - 2 shots: New State Record - for fewest shots on a goalie in a State game

At least the Blake goalie will forever be in the record books :lol: :lol:
Locked