Wayzata vs Ep- thoughts?

[Mite-dad]

I think you are all wrong about Hank. If he wants to play at the next level he needs to play exactly like he does every night. A tough guy to play against and someone who can stir it up a bit. Junior coaches love those guys. I love his future.

Sounds like I need to revisit my youth coaching manual for that chapter on encouraging cussing and disrespecting the refs and looking for that big blow-up hit so I can get more kids to that next level.

No keep looking at those manuals to run your mite practices. I am talking about actual hockey at a higher level. Where toughness is a factor and players who have that mentality that Hank does are some of the coaches favorite players.

Toughness has nothing to do with cussing, disrespect and dangerous hits.

[notwolinepass]

First of all, Notminnesotan, there is a distinct difference between playing physical and playing out of control. Physical play done with a purpose is a positive for D-1 programs and it is one factor coaches look at when evaluating players. The hit on the EP player is not something even I would call "physical play." Physical play is not something where one player comes from across the ice full speed and leaves his feet to complete a check to the head of a defenseless player. You can call it a lot of things, but it is not physical play. I can teach any player to do that. The Wayzata's players illegal check would have likely caused him to be ejected from a D-1 game, and his language following the play would have likely caused him to be ejected from a D-1 game. I don't know if this player has done it before or not and I am not commenting on him specifically, but simply using the hit as an example. This analysis is likely different for other leagues, but D-1 coaches are not generally looking for out of control players. Five minute majors in college hockey often times results in a goal being scored, but everytime requires adjustments to be made for a five minute period of time that exhausts the players on the ice defending. It not only affects the players, team, and strategy for the five minutes of penalty time for the offending team, it often times takes time after the penalty for players and rotations to get back to normal. College hockey does not put up with the same level of "physical" play that seems to be allowed in other leagues.

I admittedly did not see all of the games this weekend, but it was an entertaining weekend of hockey. I personally liked Wayzata's style of play at times, particularly in the third period after they got the lead. It makes it difficult to get quality scoring chances for the opposing team. It is a limiting style however because it is predicated on playing with a lead or a close to a tie in the first two periods of play. It appeared that this style limited Wayzata's offensive effectiveness throughout the game and Wayzata's offense often times looked "awkward" in the first two periods, and they had very few quality scoring chances. Wayzata scored three of their goals from the blue-line and one could argue at least two of the three should have been routine saves. These goals allowed Wayzata to play their style of game in the third period and it paid off. I didn't see the wearing down of players, but rather a style of play that in the third period was executed effectively. Congratulations to Wayzata.

[MNHockeyFan]

If he's going to play at the college level believe me he's going to have to learn to dial that back a bit and focus on the other attributes a college coach needs out of their D.

Agreed. At the college level the referees do a much better job of protecting the players by actually calling major penalties, and often game misconducts, on hits to the head.

[yesiplayedhockey]

It will be interesting to see where this goes assuming he returns to Wayzata next year. People are tweeting about him, guys like us discussing him in forums and of course his classmates are all slapping him on the back.

I've seen it go both ways. Sometimes these kids roll up there sleeves and keep working harder at the parts of the their game that need work. While other kids take this 15 minutes of fame to far and things turn for the worst.

Let's hope he surrounds himself with the right people and that the coaching staff continues to guide him in the right direction.

[WestMetro]

OK, have we had enough discussion about one particular kid?

Many of same comments we could substitute in a kid or two in each of the last two year championship games.

From what I have seen, both of these teams and maybe another 5-6 teams in the metro have really increased their level of inappropriate and risky contact and fighting in the last few years, to the point where it is now as high as before 2012

The level of on the ice chatter and profanity is also probably at an all time high.

Yes, the refs have to control the game.

But in end, it is the coaches and high profile MN hockey leaders who are the ones that have to reign in this stuff. The kids will never do it themselves, if left up to them it will continue to grow.

I hope it doesnt take an unfortunate incident, there have been a couple close calls this year which I think a number of us can remember seeing in person.

(Interesting that when these kids play in the Elite League, I dont see the same level of risky contact or inappropriate chatter/profanity)

[sherwood]

Section 8 guy "I didn't have a horse in the race and really didn't care who won, but Personally, I'm hoping "the Wayzata Way" doesn't get mimicked by other teams in the near future as a recipe for success. They set hockey back 30 years in one night with their cheap play. There was nothing dynamic about it, it isn't good hockey and it sure isnt fun to watch.

In regards to the defenseman......he's a dangerous and dirty player and that shouldn't surprise anyone. It's been talked about all season and his penalty minutes show it. The hit happened right in front of me, it looked up close like intent to injure and he should have been tossed.

On another note, I haven't been through the board much......did Mittelstadt get dinged up on that first shift and have some lingering effects from it? It looked at points like he was trying to stretch something out and it seemed like he didn't quite have that extra gear......but of course that could have been Wayzatas D doing a nice job of containing him."

Section 8 guy, Hockey is meant to be a physical sport not a sport for cream puffs. Like another said, there are other sports like basketball you could watch if you can't stomach watching the physical play with hockey. For everyone who is shi*ting on Hank, can we all acknowledge there were other 'cheap' players in this game..ahem, Johannes. & all around the state at that. But again, it's hockey & that's what makes it so great to watch! i can guarantee you if any one of you had the opportunity to have Hank on your high school team you would. He's EFFECTIVE, fun to watch and you can tell his teammates and classmates love him & his highly Spirited personality.

[GoldenBear]

On last thing on Sorenson. After the face off with 1 second left, while his team mates when to mob the goalie and celebrate, #23 went over to the EP bench and said something to Coach Olinger. Class!!! GB

[Section 8 guy]

Sherwood. It's been well discussed above the difference between physical play and cheap play. I'll spare everyone rehashing that conversation. I watch over 100 hockey games a season. I'm well aware of the difference. We'll have to agree to disagree and no thanks on the basketball part.

In regards to wanting a player like that on my team. I wouldn't. There's been some discussion about whether Sorenson is a next level player or not. I'm also a huge college hockey fan. I would not want a player like that on my college team either.

[tacks28]

Read the entire preface, especially standard of play and rule emphasis--body checking. Note how the rule reads, "the purpose of the check is to separate the opponent from the puck." With strict adherence, the boxes would have been full the entire weekend.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... lebook.pdf

Another good read...note how the NHL says a hit after .6-.7 seconds is too late for a player no longer in possession of the puck. Hitting with the purpose of creating a yard sale needs to be taken out of the game for the future viability of the game--especially with all of the concussion discussion.

http://www.startribune.com/nhl-s-player ... c=y&page=1

[Mite-dad]

Read the entire preface, especially standard of play and rule emphasis--body checking. Note how the rule reads, "the purpose of the check is to separate the opponent from the puck." With strict adherence, the boxes would have been full the entire weekend.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... lebook.pdf

Another good read...note how the NHL says a hit after .6-.7 seconds is too late for a player no longer in possession of the puck. Hitting with the purpose of creating a yard sale needs to be taken out of the game for the future viability of the game--especially with all of the concussion discussion.

http://www.startribune.com/nhl-s-player ... c=y&page=1

Good post! But there are still dinosaur fans out there that love the hit more than they care about the health of the player.

I also agree that some checks were finished way late throughout the tourney.

And finally, a true test of character is how a player acts in defeat or when things don't go their way. Not how they behave after winning. It is easy to go congratulate the opposing coach when you win.

[mulefarm]

Sherwood. It's been well discussed above the difference between physical play and cheap play. I'll spare everyone rehashing that conversation. I watch over 100 hockey games a season. I'm well aware of the difference. We'll have to agree to disagree and no thanks on the basketball part.

In regards to wanting a player like that on my team. I wouldn't. There's been some discussion about whether Sorenson is a next level player or not. I'm also a huge college hockey fan. I would not want a player like that on my college team either.

Hope you're not a Fighting Hawks fan?

[bardown27]

On last thing on Sorenson. After the face off with 1 second left, while his team mates when to mob the goalie and celebrate, #23 went over to the EP bench and said something to Coach Olinger. Class!!! GB

This is where you're wrong.

Go watch this video, skip to the 3:!5 mark, and see who the FIRST person to hug his goalie is. #23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtlp4PV_u_E

[Duluthguy]

On last thing on Sorenson. After the face off with 1 second left, while his team mates when to mob the goalie and celebrate, #23 went over to the EP bench and said something to Coach Olinger. Class!!! GB

This is where you're wrong.

Go watch this video, skip to the 3:!5 mark, and see who the FIRST person to hug his goalie is. #23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtlp4PV_u_E

You both may be right. There were two celebrations. The first was simultaneous with the empty net goal, and is depicted in the video above. In that celebration, #23 was the first to congratulate the goalie.

However, as we know, the game wasn't yet over. As GB points out, there was a face-off at center ice with about 1 second left, AFTER the first celebration seen in the video. The second celebration came when the game actually ended. This is when #23 may have gone to Ollinger on the EP bench (I didn't see it...just taking GB's word for it)

[bardown27]

On last thing on Sorenson. After the face off with 1 second left, while his team mates when to mob the goalie and celebrate, #23 went over to the EP bench and said something to Coach Olinger. Class!!! GB

This is where you're wrong.

Go watch this video, skip to the 3:!5 mark, and see who the FIRST person to hug his goalie is. #23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtlp4PV_u_E

You both may be right. There were two celebrations. The first was simultaneous with the empty net goal, and is depicted in the video above. In that celebration, #23 was the first to congratulate the goalie.

However, as we know, the game wasn't yet over. As GB points out, there was a face-off at center ice with about 1 second left, AFTER the first celebration seen in the video. The second celebration came when the game actually ended. This is when #23 may have gone to Ollinger on the EP bench (I didn't see it...just taking GB's word for it)

the celebration in the video was the one to end the game, as you can see Hank and Schilling throw their gloves and helmets. dont think they would do that before the game ended.

[bardown27]

if you need more proof, here's a video from Bauer Hockey's Twitter account from right behind Wayzata's net.

https://twitter.com/BauerHockey/status/ ... 5746167808

[GoldenBear]

Not to beat a dead horse but I am. I just looked at the telecast. Look at the face off with one second left #23 is holding a GOALIE STICK as they drop the puck. He then is seen skating towards EP bench while everyone else on wayzata team goes to Celebrate with schilling. Trust me as i don't know how to post videos. Some of you may cry that a penalty should have been called on 23 for playing with a goalie stick. You would be right but.....please let it go. GB

[mrchips]

what happened with Eden Prairie on Wayzata's first goal? They self-imposed a 5-on-3 power play, then gave up the goal on the side of the missing player. Confusion on the bench?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmc3dd1vJ1I

[Mavs]

what happened with Eden Prairie on Wayzata's first goal? They self-imposed a 5-on-3 power play, then gave up the goal on the side of the missing player. Confusion on the bench?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmc3dd1vJ1I

Wow, I missed that...were they missing a second player by mistake?

[Duluthguy]

if you need more proof, here's a video from Bauer Hockey's Twitter account from right behind Wayzata's net.

https://twitter.com/BauerHockey/status/ ... 5746167808

In the Bauer video you cite above, go :18 into it when the camera pans toward the Wayzata crowd. The scoreboard above the student section clearly shows 0.8 left on the clock. (I would post a still but for some reason I'm unable to.) That's because Wayzata scored an empty-netter as the players came off the bench. So yes, they did do that before the game ended.

The officials "cleared" the ice--or at least tried to--and dropped the puck again at center ice. When the game officially ended, the Trojans celebrated a second time.

[the_juiceman]

what happened with Eden Prairie on Wayzata's first goal? They self-imposed a 5-on-3 power play, then gave up the goal on the side of the missing player. Confusion on the bench?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmc3dd1vJ1I

Wow, I missed that...were they missing a second player by mistake?

if so, that would be on the refs...shouldn't drop puck 'till correct # of players are on the ice...

[Section 8 guy]

Hope you're not a Fighting Hawks fan?

Not a F'n Hawks fan in the least Mulefarm and their style of play is definitely a factor in that.