Greenway at Hibbing, Tues 12/13

[karl(east)]

The renewal of this rivalry got some attention last year, as it was the first time in a while both were competitive. Hibbing's early departures and the near-certainty of an ultimate loss to Hermantown may take a little of the luster away, but there's still some good talent on both sides, and the teams have one loss between them so far. Since it doesn't look like there will be anything falling from the sky, I plan to make the trip up from Duluth.

Any thoughts on this one? Anyone know the last time Greenway beat Hibbing? Recommendations for someone who hasn't been to Hibbing Memorial in a while?

[rainier]

Both of last year's contests were fantastic, with insane crowds and great electricity. Hibbing's 3,500 seat arena was nearly filled last year, but I think it will be less this year, for the reasons Karl gave.

As for the matchup, here's my take:

Forwards: Advantage Greenway- Hibbing does have a potent top line and some speed on the lower lines, but overall I feel the Raiders have more skill, especially at the top.

Defense: Advantage Greenway- The Raiders top two defenseman are more skilled than any of the Bluejackets', but Hibbing can go 5-6 deep without a major drop off in talent.

Goaltending: Advantage Hibbing- Greenway has won all their games despite questionable goaltending this year, which is a testament to their offensive prowess. For Hibbing, Kriske has an excellent .937 sv %, and has been making all the saves he should make, but Greenway will give him his toughest test yet.

Special Teams: Advantage Greenway-Hibbing has shown fantastic puck movement once their pp is set up, but gaining the zone and actually putting the puck away have been lacking. Greenway also moves the puck with ease on the pp, but they also seem to have an excellent pk from what I've seen, which is something I have not seen from Hibbing yet.

As I posted on my award-winning, wildly popular 7A rankings thread, I'll take Greenway in this one 4-2.

As for Memorial Building info, it would be a good idea to get there early if you want to get a good seat or a prime standing area, as even if it isn't as packed as last year, the crowd should still be substantial. If you want to be able to park in the arena lot, you'll likely have to arrive during the JV game, otherwise you'll be parking a few blocks away on a residential side street. Be prepared to endure some severely dated arena music; I think Carter was in office the last time the playlist was updated.

[karl(east)]

As for Memorial Building info, it would be a good idea to get there early if you want to get a good seat or a prime standing area, as even if it isn't as packed as last year, the crowd should still be substantial. If you want to be able to park in the arena lot, you'll likely have to arrive during the JV game, otherwise you'll be parking a few blocks away on a residential side street. Be prepared to endure some severely dated arena music; I think Carter was in office the last time the playlist was updated.

Good stuff. Guess I'll leave straight from work and sample some arena fare while waiting for the main event to start, and be immediately identifiable as the guy who's hopelessly overdressed for hockey on the Range. And I'll brace myself for the music selection.

[black sheep]

make sure to grab some of the memorial polish's...always tasty.

[rainier]

Hibbing with a nice 5-1 win, shots were 21-20 Bluejackets. I certainly think Hibbing was the better team tonight, but I don't feel the final score is indicative of how the game went. Hibbing's goalie was solid, which was the real difference, IMO.

Big section win for Hibbing, but no matter what happens the rest of the way I feel like we'll see these two teams battle in the 7A semis. We won't have to wait long for the rematch, as these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the game, Karl. I hope the Range treated you well tonight.

[karl(east)]

Hibbing with a nice 5-1 win, shots were 21-20 Bluejackets. I certainly think Hibbing was the better team tonight, but I don't feel the final score is indicative of how the game went. Hibbing's goalie was solid, which was the real difference, IMO.

Big section win for Hibbing, but no matter what happens the rest of the way I feel like we'll see these two teams battle in the 7A semis. We won't have to wait long for the rematch, as these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the game, Karl. I hope the Range treated you well tonight.

It was a fun night, yes, and I'd agree that Hibbing was the better team, though probably not 4 goals better. The Jackets are underrated, and deserve a higher ranking than the one they have.

At times I thought Clafton was outcoaching himself in this one. I was surprised to see Troumbly and Lantz start out on different lines, and they only came out together sporadically. This left Greenway with two mediocre lines, one involving Lantz trying to finesse his way through the teeth of the Hibbing defense, and the other involving Troumbly trying to bulldoze his way through the Hibbing defense. Other than that, the Raiders have some big defensemen and hit hard...outside of Lantz they really are a power team. Some decent parts, but I didn't come away over-awed.

Hibbing, by contrast, had their top guns on the same line, and even if Troumbly and Lantz were together, I'd probably still take Lee (best player on the ice) and DeBoom. They were somewhat deeper and better-skating than Greenway, and while they weren't as physical, they were physical enough to hang in there. The power play was also very sharp, with Lee running it from the point. And, as rainier said, the goaltending is solid. Beating Hermantown would still be a Hail Mary, but they look like a pretty solid Class A team.

I don't have much historical perspective on the atmosphere, but it seemed pretty good...not phenomenal, maybe, but I'd guess there were 1,500-2,000 people in the building, and it got loud at times. I was near the Hibbing students and they were pretty engaged. They've done a nice job of keeping that barn looking clean and well-tended. Compared to some, that parking lot clears out pretty nicely afterwards, and I got home at a reasonable hour. And the Polish was delicious, thanks for the recommendation there.

[rainier]

Hibbing with a nice 5-1 win, shots were 21-20 Bluejackets. I certainly think Hibbing was the better team tonight, but I don't feel the final score is indicative of how the game went. Hibbing's goalie was solid, which was the real difference, IMO.

Big section win for Hibbing, but no matter what happens the rest of the way I feel like we'll see these two teams battle in the 7A semis. We won't have to wait long for the rematch, as these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the game, Karl. I hope the Range treated you well tonight.

It was a fun night, yes, and I'd agree that Hibbing was the better team, though probably not 4 goals better. The Jackets are underrated, and deserve a higher ranking than the one they have.

At times I thought Clafton was outcoaching himself in this one. I was surprised to see Troumbly and Lantz start out on different lines, and they only came out together sporadically. This left Greenway with two mediocre lines, one involving Lantz trying to finesse his way through the teeth of the Hibbing defense, and the other involving Troumbly trying to bulldoze his way through the Hibbing defense. Other than that, the Raiders have some big defensemen and hit hard...outside of Lantz they really are a power team. Some decent parts, but I didn't come away over-awed.

Hibbing, by contrast, had their top guns on the same line, and even if Troumbly and Lantz were together, I'd probably still take Lee (best player on the ice) and DeBoom. They were somewhat deeper and better-skating than Greenway, and while they weren't as physical, they were physical enough to hang in there. The power play was also very sharp, with Lee running it from the point. And, as rainier said, the goaltending is solid. Beating Hermantown would still be a Hail Mary, but they look like a pretty solid Class A team.

I don't have much historical perspective on the atmosphere, but it seemed pretty good...not phenomenal, maybe, but I'd guess there were 1,500-2,000 people in the building, and it got loud at times. I was near the Hibbing students and they were pretty engaged. They've done a nice job of keeping that barn looking clean and well-tended. Compared to some, that parking lot clears out pretty nicely afterwards, and I got home at a reasonable hour. And the Polish was delicious, thanks for the recommendation there.

I agree with your assessment 100%, and especially with Clafton outcoaching himself. What is even stranger than not having Lantz and Troumbly together on a line is that Carlson, who I feel strongly is their 3rd best forward, was playing on the 3rd line! This meant he was on the ice for a limited amount of time, and even when he was, he had little help in generating any offense. Perhaps he is in the coach's doghouse or there is some other issue, but he isn't on the top pp unit either, which just seems crazy to me.

Clafton is a branch on the DeCenzo coaching tree , so perhaps he has the same philosophy as the former Hibbing coach (and Randolph) do, which is: "I could give a crap less about our regular season record. We are going to tinker and experiment until we know exactly what we have, then put it together near the end of the season."

I concur that Lee was the best player on the ice. What's great about this kid is that just three years ago as an eight grader he was diagnosed with cancer. He has beaten it and is flourishing on the ice. He's not real big, but he has the heart of a lion and he dishes out some big hits. With Perunovich gone, this is Lee's team now, and with each game you can see him growing into that leadership role more and more. Fun to watch.

Another great story is Kriske, the Hibbing goalie. Despite being two years older than Ullan, he was always Ullan's backup and has seen relatively little action at the A levels in youth and on varsity. This kid was looking at playing maybe 2-3 games this year against bad teams, then Ullan goes to the NDTP, and now Kriske is the workhorse in nets. With a sv% of .940 through five games, he's gotta be having a blast.

When these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine, I expect a pissed off Raiders team to show up, and an insane home crowd to give them extra energy. Hibbing will need another fast start to keep the crowd quiet and prevent Uncle Mo from favoring Greenway too much.

I hope Sundquist is ok for Greenway. He is their best defenseman and when he went down in the 3rd with a leg/knee injury, you did get the feeling the Raiders weren't going to be able to come back. Would love to see him on the ice next week.

[elliott70]

Thanks guys for the great info.

Cannot get this on Twitter.

[GoldenBear]

Yes, thanks for the in depth summary. I may just try and make it to the rematch next Thursday. GB

[karl(east)]

I agree with your assessment 100%, and especially with Clafton outcoaching himself. What is even stranger than not having Lantz and Troumbly together on a line is that Carlson, who I feel strongly is their 3rd best forward, was playing on the 3rd line! This meant he was on the ice for a limited amount of time, and even when he was, he had little help in generating any offense. Perhaps he is in the coach's doghouse or there is some other issue, but he isn't on the top pp unit either, which just seems crazy to me.

Clafton is a branch on the DeCenzo coaching tree , so perhaps he has the same philosophy as the former Hibbing coach (and Randolph) do, which is: "I could give a crap less about our regular season record. We are going to tinker and experiment until we know exactly what we have, then put it together near the end of the season."

I concur that Lee was the best player on the ice. What's great about this kid is that just three years ago as an eight grader he was diagnosed with cancer. He has beaten it and is flourishing on the ice. He's not real big, but he has the heart of a lion and he dishes out some big hits. With Perunovich gone, this is Lee's team now, and with each game you can see him growing into that leadership role more and more. Fun to watch.

Another great story is Kriske, the Hibbing goalie. Despite being two years older than Ullan, he was always Ullan's backup and has seen relatively little action at the A levels in youth and on varsity. This kid was looking at playing maybe 2-3 games this year against bad teams, then Ullan goes to the NDTP, and now Kriske is the workhorse in nets. With a sv% of .940 through five games, he's gotta be having a blast.

When these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine, I expect a pissed off Raiders team to show up, and an insane home crowd to give them extra energy. Hibbing will need another fast start to keep the crowd quiet and prevent Uncle Mo from favoring Greenway too much.

I hope Sundquist is ok for Greenway. He is their best defenseman and when he went down in the 3rd with a leg/knee injury, you did get the feeling the Raiders weren't going to be able to come back. Would love to see him on the ice next week.

I didn't even notice Carlson, which goes to show how buried he was last night...who knows what's going on there. I get the idea of trying to build a deeper lineup by splitting up the top forwards; with their physicality they could conceivably wear opponents down. Their ultimate test (Hermantown) will require them to hang in there against a much deeper team. But they run the risk of watering down a somewhat thin offense to the point of impotence. Clafton certainly has every right to play around and experiment, and hopefully Sunquist is OK, because he is a load and that injury did not look pretty.

Didn't know the backstory on Lee, but he's a fine player. I only saw Hibbing once last year (7A semi vs. Denfeld), so it's a small sample, but they did seem awfully Perunovich-dependent in that game, and everything ran through him. Maybe now that he's gone, it's freeing up other players to step into bigger roles. Obviously you'd rather have him than not, but there can be positive effects. And this group was a top 15 AA bantam team a couple years ago, and you don't do that without having a number of quality players. (Was Ullan on that team?)

[rainier]

I agree with your assessment 100%, and especially with Clafton outcoaching himself. What is even stranger than not having Lantz and Troumbly together on a line is that Carlson, who I feel strongly is their 3rd best forward, was playing on the 3rd line! This meant he was on the ice for a limited amount of time, and even when he was, he had little help in generating any offense. Perhaps he is in the coach's doghouse or there is some other issue, but he isn't on the top pp unit either, which just seems crazy to me.

Clafton is a branch on the DeCenzo coaching tree , so perhaps he has the same philosophy as the former Hibbing coach (and Randolph) do, which is: "I could give a crap less about our regular season record. We are going to tinker and experiment until we know exactly what we have, then put it together near the end of the season."

I concur that Lee was the best player on the ice. What's great about this kid is that just three years ago as an eight grader he was diagnosed with cancer. He has beaten it and is flourishing on the ice. He's not real big, but he has the heart of a lion and he dishes out some big hits. With Perunovich gone, this is Lee's team now, and with each game you can see him growing into that leadership role more and more. Fun to watch.

Another great story is Kriske, the Hibbing goalie. Despite being two years older than Ullan, he was always Ullan's backup and has seen relatively little action at the A levels in youth and on varsity. This kid was looking at playing maybe 2-3 games this year against bad teams, then Ullan goes to the NDTP, and now Kriske is the workhorse in nets. With a sv% of .940 through five games, he's gotta be having a blast.

When these two teams meet again next Thursday in Coleraine, I expect a pissed off Raiders team to show up, and an insane home crowd to give them extra energy. Hibbing will need another fast start to keep the crowd quiet and prevent Uncle Mo from favoring Greenway too much.

I hope Sundquist is ok for Greenway. He is their best defenseman and when he went down in the 3rd with a leg/knee injury, you did get the feeling the Raiders weren't going to be able to come back. Would love to see him on the ice next week.

I didn't even notice Carlson, which goes to show how buried he was last night...who knows what's going on there. I get the idea of trying to build a deeper lineup by splitting up the top forwards; with their physicality they could conceivably wear opponents down. Their ultimate test (Hermantown) will require them to hang in there against a much deeper team. But they run the risk of watering down a somewhat thin offense to the point of impotence. Clafton certainly has every right to play around and experiment, and hopefully Sunquist is OK, because he is a load and that injury did not look pretty.

Didn't know the backstory on Lee, but he's a fine player. I only saw Hibbing once last year (7A semi vs. Denfeld), so it's a small sample, but they did seem awfully Perunovich-dependent in that game, and everything ran through him. Maybe now that he's gone, it's freeing up other players to step into bigger roles. Obviously you'd rather have him than not, but there can be positive effects. And this group was a top 15 AA bantam team a couple years ago, and you don't do that without having a number of quality players. (Was Ullan on that team?)

Yes, last year Hibbing's offense did primarily run through Perunovich, and the degree to which it did was a subject of debate amongst some Hibbing faithful, but it was the best option. He essentially could skate through most other teams at will, then dance around the offensive zone before making a nice pass to an open teammate. It was fun to watch and effective, except against the very best teams like GR and Herm.

His departure has absolutely freed up other players to take on bigger roles, and I think the team has benefitted from having a new coach step in that knew nothing about the team coming in, nor was beholden to any political loyalties. Thus far Tomberlin appears to be an excellent coach and from what I have heard the kids like him a lot. (Despite him being a Greenway grad.)

Yes, Ullan was on that bantam team from 3 years ago, and he was a finalist for YHH goalie of the year award-as a seventh grader! That team wasn't just top 15 in AA, they were top 10, as they beat Tonka, Prior Lake, East, and lost to EP 5-3 (en) in a close game. That's why I was hoping Hibbing would opt up to AA for two years, but I have since seen the light that they would have needed one of the two following classes to also be excellent in order for them to have had a shot at the 7AA title.

They were able to be top 10 in AA as bantams because they do have a number of good players besides Perunovich and Ullan, which is why howardst annoyed me so much last year with his "Perunovich is all Hibbing has!" rants. Lee, DeBoom, Mattson, Versich, etc. are all good-to-excellent players, and there are solid role players behind them.

I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to underrating Hibbing; I was thinking they were top 10-15 in A, and I honestly didn't think they could crack the top 10. We'll see how things go in their games against CEC, Greenway, Alex, EGF, Warroad, TRF, Virginia, etc. Should be lots of fun matchups against other good teams.

[karl(east)]

This game ended up prompting some longer-form blogging, with an assist to rainier on some of the details: https://apatientcycle.com/2016/12/15/fu ... ssibility/

[rainier]

This game ended up prompting some longer-form blogging, with an assist to rainier on some of the details: https://apatientcycle.com/2016/12/15/fu ... ssibility/

Great piece Karl. For a cake-eater, you sure did a good job of capturing Range sentiment.

[karl(east)]

This game ended up prompting some longer-form blogging, with an assist to rainier on some of the details: https://apatientcycle.com/2016/12/15/fu ... ssibility/

Great piece Karl. For a cake-eater, you sure did a good job of capturing Range sentiment.

Appreciate it. I try to get off my estate and down among the masses from time to time.

I hope to make another game or two on the Range this season. I have Rapids-Greenway tentatively circled, and Hibbing may be worth a second look after that effort on Tuesday.

[karl(east)]

Just have to say...in 3.5 years of this blog, this post has had exponentially more views than anything else I've ever written. I don't do it for the views, but just thought it was remarkable. I certainly didn't promote it any more than I normally do (this post here, a couple of tweets), and I've weighed in on some other stuff that generated a lot of traffic on this forum the years. I'm not sure how it blew up and got thousands of views, but...glad to see that kind of reception somewhere out there.

[rainier]

Just have to say...in 3.5 years of this blog, this post has had exponentially more views than anything else I've ever written. I don't do it for the views, but just thought it was remarkable. I certainly didn't promote it any more than I normally do (this post here, a couple of tweets), and I've weighed in on some other stuff that generated a lot of traffic on this forum the years. I'm not sure how it blew up and got thousands of views, but...glad to see that kind of reception somewhere out there.

At the Hibbing game tonight I heard it was being shared on Facebook like crazy, and everyone I talked to liked it. I think the fact that it wasn't just a game recap but it also touched on other Range themes really broadened its appeal. And it was excellent writing, so you don't even have to be a hockey fan to appreciate it.

Hopefully the views keep piling up!

[pekyman]

[quote="karl(east)"]This game ended up prompting some longer-form blogging, with an assist to rainier on some of the details: https://apatientcycle.com/2016/12/15/fu ... ssibility/[/quoteRea

Really nice to see you paying more attention to Class A hockey; it's where the heart of Mn hockey is. Great read!

[alcloseshaver]

Karl, some of your best work here and your previous stuff was good.