Hermantown to Stay Down in Class A

[mulefarm]

I really hope they stay in Class A! The entertainment of this topic is priceless!

[zooomx]

I find this interesting. I was listening to people at the Cathedral game speculate where their skaters all come from and it made me think of Hermantown.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the current roster of Hermantown. How many Hermantown kids are still skating?

What is the dynamic around the families? If my kid grew up playing Hermantown youth hockey and was a strong player, I would be pretty pissed of if quite a few open-enrollees strolled in and bumped the local players. You would think if that is happening to a larger degree we would hear complaining from Hermantown natives.

The tough thing for the MSHSL is this: They can't just legislate all privates go AA, as there are small private schools that have no business moving up in most sports. So, potential forced move ups would have to be based only on competitiveness. Meaning a subjective review: something they are scared to do.

It would be very interesting to see what the Hermantown/Blake parents think. If it was me? I would be lobbying AA.

[Hermhawkey]

The vast majority of parents and players I have talked to support a move up. Do not blame parents and most certainly players for this decision. The kids play whoever is in front of them and we will continue to support our kids. We have a special group this year and none of this controversy is their fault. This is a decision that lies solely on the AD. Rumor is a 15:1 board vote in favor of a move up was ignored by the AD. A petition will hopefully send a message.
As a parent of Hermantown hockey players I was hoping we would have opted up for next year.

[Hermhawkey]

I find this interesting. I was listening to people at the Cathedral game speculate where their skaters all come from and it made me think of Hermantown.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the current roster of Hermantown. How many Hermantown kids are still skating?

What is the dynamic around the families? If my kid grew up playing Hermantown youth hockey and was a strong player, I would be pretty pissed of if quite a few open-enrollees strolled in and bumped the local players. You would think if that is happening to a larger degree we would hear complaining from Hermantown natives.

The tough thing for the MSHSL is this: They can't just legislate all privates go AA, as there are small private schools that have no business moving up in most sports. So, potential forced move ups would have to be based only on competitiveness. Meaning a subjective review: something they are scared to do.

It would be very interesting to see what the Hermantown/Blake parents think. If it was me? I would be lobbying AA.

My kids have been in Hermantown since mites. Neither has had kids move in or open enroll that much affected their position on respective teams. You get what you earn regardless of little johnny open enrollee from Twig. The kids that spend time on the outdoor rinks do well...there are no guarantees.

[Mite-dad]

The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.

Honestly, I thought this was said a couple years ago? What a joke.

[Schotzy]

The vast majority of parents and players I have talked to support a move up. Do not blame parents and most certainly players for this decision. The kids play whoever is in front of them and we will continue to support our kids. We have a special group this year and none of this controversy is their fault. This is a decision that lies solely on the AD. Rumor is a 15:1 board vote in favor of a move up was ignored by the AD. A petition will hopefully send a message.
As a parent of Hermantown hockey players I was hoping we would have opted up for next year.

For the decision to move up, I don't think the parents or players hold any blame. That is on the AD and the coaching staff at the HS level. I know a lot of people from Hermantown that would welcome the move up.

There is something special about the Hermantown program. I have admired it for years as my boys have had the chance to go up against their teams. My oldest spent most of his youth career up against this year's Hermantown Senior class. Amazing how that program develops and supports their program. Most of the "hate" come from envy, I am sure.

My gut feeling right now, is it is hard to be excited about a program that should be playing in AA (based on dominance alone), but is just running the table in A. I love section 7, but would love to see some diversity in representation at state. We are seeing it now in 7AA after years of East dominance, and it is a nice change of pace for a fan of hockey in the region.

If Hermantown were in AA, it would make the section stronger, remove some of the North-Metro teams from the section, and create an even more electric atmosphere to see who the best team is from year-to-year. It would benefit the entire North East MN region in terms of hockey development. Great for the AA programs, and even better for the small town schools, that right now can not compete with a large suburban school, with the ability to draw players from neighboring communities. That last bit is not sour grapes.....just the truth. It is what it is.

[Schotzy]

The hook here right now is I think they are in line for a few lean years. They move up now, lose, say "I told you so", then opt back down just in time for their loaded PeeWee group to play at the A level again.

Honestly, I thought this was said a couple years ago? What a joke.

I agree, it is disappointing that a few "down" years would be an excuse to not move up. The threat of not making that trip to St. Paul in March every year is too much of an obstacle I guess.

[MrBoDangles]

The vast majority of parents and players I have talked to support a move up. Do not blame parents and most certainly players for this decision. The kids play whoever is in front of them and we will continue to support our kids. We have a special group this year and none of this controversy is their fault. This is a decision that lies solely on the AD. Rumor is a 15:1 board vote in favor of a move up was ignored by the AD. A petition will hopefully send a message.
As a parent of Hermantown hockey players I was hoping we would have opted up for next year.

15:1 board vote and ignored by the AD?

[Duluthguy]

The vast majority of parents and players I have talked to support a move up. Do not blame parents and most certainly players for this decision. The kids play whoever is in front of them and we will continue to support our kids. We have a special group this year and none of this controversy is their fault. This is a decision that lies solely on the AD. Rumor is a 15:1 board vote in favor of a move up was ignored by the AD. A petition will hopefully send a message.
As a parent of Hermantown hockey players I was hoping we would have opted up for next year.

15:1 board vote and ignored by the AD?

Could someone clarify this "board vote?" The Hermantown school board only has six members...The most recent school board minutes posted online (from 2/13) don't indicate a vote, and while the minutes from the 2/27 meeting aren't yet online, the agenda from that night didn't include this topic. So was this a board other than the school board?

Please clarify.

(And I think they should have moved up a while ago...)

[Hermhawkey]

The vast majority of parents and players I have talked to support a move up. Do not blame parents and most certainly players for this decision. The kids play whoever is in front of them and we will continue to support our kids. We have a special group this year and none of this controversy is their fault. This is a decision that lies solely on the AD. Rumor is a 15:1 board vote in favor of a move up was ignored by the AD. A petition will hopefully send a message.
As a parent of Hermantown hockey players I was hoping we would have opted up for next year.

15:1 board vote and ignored by the AD?

Could someone clarify this "board vote?" The Hermantown school board only has six members...The most recent school board minutes posted online (from 2/13) don't indicate a vote, and while the minutes from the 2/27 meeting aren't yet online, the agenda from that night didn't include this topic. So was this a board other than the school board?

Please clarify.

(And I think they should have moved up a while ago...)

Could not tell you personally. Just a specific vote tally that came from a source who I would believe. Likely a vote of coaches and youth board members presented to AD is my guess. Obviously, not a binding vote assuming it were true.

[hockeydad]

On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.

It used to be a four-year commitment, but I believe they changed it to two years a couple years back.

[O-townClown]

Sounds like a poll and not a vote. Seriously, if the outcome of something is 15 to 1 and you don't go with the majority there's no point to holding a vote.

[HShockeywatcher]

I was in the middle of typing this for the previous rumor topic when it was locked. This comment was about when the best time previously to opt up would've been and why they hadn't yet. The thing I've always found interesting is the discussions that come up about opting in high school hockey that exist virtually no where else...

Ultimately, it depends on what you know about your program and what your goal is. Comparing PageStat historical rankings, it looks like 2007 or 2009 would've been perfect times. Sure, in 2008 and 2009 they lost to section chamption Cathedral, and 2008 was a down year with a 17-10 record, but 2009 they were ranked 14 to East's 8 and 2010 ranked 17 to East's 13. If you knew the personnel of the team, you'd likely know that 2008 was going to be a down year [in A or AA], but it looks like there's a good indication that they could've been in the 7AA finals in 2009 and 2010 and been a top team every year since then. Plus, what other players would've moved to the area knowing they were a AA team?

There's the flip side where people outside of a particular sport don't know the specifics of any of this stuff and making it to state [in Class A] looks better than losing in sections [in AA]. I have for years said I think it's silly that teams are even allowed to opt up and various other things. But they do...so what is your goal ultimately?

[MNHockeyFan]

On the Marshall comments: I believe opting up is a 4-year commitment, so they're stuck in AA for another two. There is some okay young talent there; I'm skeptical it'll be enough to do any serious damage with what CEC, DE, and ER have coming through their systems, but they'll at least be able to see where they go with this group and then re-evaluate in a couple of years.

It used to be a four-year commitment, but I believe they changed it to two years a couple years back.

That is my understanding as well.

[kniven]

I was in the middle of typing this for the previous rumor topic when it was locked. This comment was about when the best time previously to opt up would've been and why they hadn't yet. The thing I've always found interesting is the discussions that come up about opting in high school hockey that exist virtually no where else...

Ultimately, it depends on what you know about your program and what your goal is. Comparing PageStat historical rankings, it looks like 2007 or 2009 would've been perfect times. Sure, in 2008 and 2009 they lost to section chamption Cathedral, and 2008 was a down year with a 17-10 record, but 2009 they were ranked 14 to East's 8 and 2010 ranked 17 to East's 13. If you knew the personnel of the team, you'd likely know that 2008 was going to be a down year [in A or AA], but it looks like there's a good indication that they could've been in the 7AA finals in 2009 and 2010 and been a top team every year since then. Plus, what other players would've moved to the area knowing they were a AA team?

There's the flip side where people outside of a particular sport don't know the specifics of any of this stuff and making it to state [in Class A] looks better than losing in sections [in AA]. I have for years said I think it's silly that teams are even allowed to opt up and various other things. But they do...so what is your goal ultimately?

Interesting read.... All I know is that the Hermantown Hawks would be my second favorite high school hockey team if they were AA.

[thestickler07]

Let them stay down - who cares about Hermantown.

[kniven]

Let them stay down - who cares about Hermantown.

I care about high school hockey and the kids. Seeing the competition light up in the north AA with Hermantown in the mix. It would be more fun! The instant new rivalries. Now games against Hermantown mean nothing to me. That's no fun

[Wet Paint]

Let them stay down - who cares about Hermantown.

I care about high school hockey and the kids. Seeing the competition light up in the north AA with Hermantown in the mix. It would be more fun! The instant new rivalries. Now games against Hermantown mean nothing to me. That's no fun

They are going to do what they are going to do. I would have to assume that with Proctor getting a new arena approved that the exodus from there might slow down some. The Denfeld program is pretty well tapped out so pretty quickly here the only hunting grounds that Hermantown will have to hunt in are on the East side of Duluth and in Hermantown. If the west end of Duluth were to co-op with Proctor now that Proctor has a new arena that would add to it. From what I can see their main strength lies in their youth program which feeds into their high school program. Same can be said for Duluth East. Want to beat Hermantown? Start to develop your kids when they are squirts and work into it, like EGF did a few years back when they got that cohort of kids together and developed them. Hermantown will start to lose players to Juniors too if they don't go up to AA so that will help get the edge off of them. They are hot right now, what goes up, comes down. They will come down.

[boblee]

Time for the MSHSL to start making teams opt-up and not just in hockey. Have some sort of specific criteria (with the biggest factor being state championships in a certain amount of time) where dominant teams have to move up.

Not just a Hermantown thing: look at Blake in girls hockey or DeLaSalle in boys basketball. They are clearly out-classing their current competition even at the state tournament level and making those games not enjoyable to watch.

Two schools of thought...

1. Get them out of here so someone else can win.
2. Get better so we can beat them.

[elliott70]

I read a lot about all the recruits on the hawks varsity team, but all those players played on their peewee team.

So what is a recruit?

Yes, Hermantown has certain advantages over North Shore, IFalls even the Hibbing's of the world. But every one has pluses and minuses.

Moorhead has big advantages over Roseau and Bemidji. But the biggest is they have a good program.
Roseau has combated it by having plenty of ice time and great teachers/coaches in the youth program. But lack the numbers.
Bemidji has added ice time but still lacks the numbers as kids gravitate to other activities.
Pluses and minuses.
You want your program to get better, quit concerning yourself with your kid and concern yourself with the program as a whole.

Hermantown should move to AA. Or stay where they are. Its their choice. The rest of us have no control nor do we deserve the right.

[Wet Paint]

I read a lot about all the recruits on the hawks varsity team, but all those players played on their peewee team.

So what is a recruit?

Yes, they have certain advantages over North Shore, IFalls even the Hibbing's of the world. But every one has pluses and minuses.

Moorhead has big advantages over Roseau and Bemidji. But the biggest is they have a good program. Roseau has combated it by having plenty of ice time and great teachers/coaches in the youth program.

Exactly. Take the EGF approach. Find your kids young, make your program so good nobody wants to leave it by having a strong youth program and go with it. That is what Hermantown did, they just did it before it was cool. Now they get to reap the benefits of it. It will be interesting to see which way Proctor goes now that they are approved an arena for them. It would not surprise me to see kids who are bubble kids start to migrate there as opposed to Hermantown since they know that they can't make Hermantown's HS team. Have to admit though that I have not heard much about the Proctor school system. What is it like?

[Puckguy19]

I apologize if this is already out there. I overheard a Hermantown School Board member today say they are going to stay at Class A the next two years. Bruce's retirement isn't going to bring change. Pretty sure this is not what the MSHSL intended by going to a 2 class system. I know they are playing within the rules but I wish the MSHSL would look at the impact it's having on Northern Minnesota Hockey.

Yet by basing the classification simply on enrollment, rather than the competitive level of the program, this is an example of exactly what the MSHSL intended to have happen.

[thestickler07]

Also, I had Hermantown pegged as a wealthy Duluth suburb sandbagging ~2 years ago.

[Jeffy95]

I read a lot about all the recruits on the hawks varsity team, but all those players played on their peewee team.

So what is a recruit?

Yes, Hermantown has certain advantages over North Shore, IFalls even the Hibbing's of the world. But every one has pluses and minuses.

Moorhead has big advantages over Roseau and Bemidji. But the biggest is they have a good program.
Roseau has combated it by having plenty of ice time and great teachers/coaches in the youth program. But lack the numbers.
Bemidji has added ice time but still lacks the numbers as kids gravitate to other activities.
Pluses and minuses.
You want your program to get better, quit concerning yourself with your kid and concern yourself with the program as a whole.

Hermantown should move to AA. Or stay where they are. Its their choice. The rest of us have no control nor do we deserve the right.

Arnold says Hermantown is a bunch of Girly Men.

[Jeffy95]

Bruce Plante for President!