Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
You are the one constantly running on about HT getting players from other associations. And i countered with direct examples of the many we lose. Every time you bring up HT(almost every post) you attempt to push an agenda. If you are an East fan the last thing you want is for us to move up. Be careful what you wish for.Jeffy95 wrote:They had 16 skaters, not enough to field two teams. But you're off topic again. It's about MAML's enrollment vs. youth numbers. Enrollment of 1900 similar to East and both with 3 PeeWee teams. I used Hermantown and their 650 enrollment with 4 PeeWee teams as an example of how player movement renders enrollment obsolete. Back on topic please.Hermhawkey wrote:East had 3 pee wee teams because the B team took over 20 skaters and 2 goalies. Our B teams each had 10 skaters exactly and 1 goalie. Nice try.
You are well aware of all the kids you have from other associations so don't play dumb. Hermantown moving up is exactly what I and everyone else in the section wants. Then we can boot a Twin Cities team out of 7AA. Then Hibbing or Greenway can have a chance to go to State and build up their programs and kick a couple more out. The goal would be an all North Section. See how that works? There is no defending Hermantown's sandbagging anymore. Maybe after the first 3-4 Championship games but that ship sailed long ago. Does anyone in that town have a set?Hermhawkey wrote:You are the one constantly running on about HT getting players from other associations. And i countered with direct examples of the many we lose. Every time you bring up HT(almost every post) you attempt to push an agenda. If you are an East fan the last thing you want is for us to move up. Be careful what you wish for.Jeffy95 wrote:They had 16 skaters, not enough to field two teams. But you're off topic again. It's about MAML's enrollment vs. youth numbers. Enrollment of 1900 similar to East and both with 3 PeeWee teams. I used Hermantown and their 650 enrollment with 4 PeeWee teams as an example of how player movement renders enrollment obsolete. Back on topic please.Hermhawkey wrote:East had 3 pee wee teams because the B team took over 20 skaters and 2 goalies. Our B teams each had 10 skaters exactly and 1 goalie. Nice try.
One could say the same thing about opting up, couldn't they?7TIMECHAMPS wrote:Doesn't petitioning down kind of ruin the point of a two class system based on enrollment? I'm surprised the MSHSL allows this.
A post that is totally filled with common sense!!7TIMECHAMPS wrote:Like I said I don't really care who plays in the A state tournament(Eden Prairie could go play there and I wouldn't care), but your argument still doesn't make sense. What is the difference between a coop school with combined enrollment of say 2000 and 30 available players and one school with an enrollment of 2000 and 30 available players? Should that school then be allowed to opt down as well? The whole two class system is a joke and allowing schools to opt down makes it even more so. Look at a program like Brainerd. They haven't been to a state tournament in decades(not sure when the last one was if ever). Are those kids less deserving of a state tournament trip than say MAML? Whenever you split classes like this there will be winners and losers. That's why it should just be one class and expand it to more teams if they have to involve more kids. Any other way to do it is foolish,
Which AA school should be/wants to be A instead of the Moose?7TIMECHAMPS wrote:Just something I am curious on. It seems as though MAML has the enrollment to be a AA school but plays A. Am I missing something here?
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anybody has to move to A if the moose had stayed in AA. Just like I don't believe anybody moved up just because they moved down. Not sure on that but it's besides the point, which is the current A/AA system does a disservice to MN hockey. It's a product of the participation medal culture.Browniemagoo wrote:Which AA school should be/wants to be A instead of the Moose?7TIMECHAMPS wrote:Just something I am curious on. It seems as though MAML has the enrollment to be a AA school but plays A. Am I missing something here?
Just curious,StarsHockey wrote:MAML's coop was formed in 2001. From 2002-2015 (2001 they were in 6AA) they were outscored by 8AA opponents 148-6 in quarterfinal games per pagestat website. Obviously never winning a game and most cases blowouts.
There youth numbers are average usually fielding 2-3 teams per level while playing A and B schedules. No AA. The varsity/jv has 5 kids from A-ML out of the 35. The youth assc is about the same ratio.
Class A is exactly where MAML should be. Don't kid yourself.
But a lot of schools can say at least some of that.StarsHockey wrote:Based on getting their teeth kicked in for 14 years in AA, based on average youth numbers, based on how many kids they are actually pulling from A-ML and finally based on that I actually had to use a calculator to add their opponents scores from those years!
StarsHockey, read the info above.MrBoDangles wrote:AA St. Francis and AA Cambridge combined last season and only had two bantam teams combined.. And the median home income of the school districts is way down from MAML's.
They had a 6-1-1 record against AA teams that included their former 8AA opponents.
Cambridge and St Francis have many smaller towns that are included in their hockey program area.. The big difference is that these towns don't have their own high schools.. Big advantage for getting all around athletes!
The mshsl had so many better options to gain a little more success in class A... Not an instant title contender..
They won a quarterfinal game on their first trip to state. Not like we are dealing with a perennial powerhouse where this discussion is even necessary.elliott70 wrote:But a lot of schools can say at least some of that.StarsHockey wrote:Based on getting their teeth kicked in for 14 years in AA, based on average youth numbers, based on how many kids they are actually pulling from A-ML and finally based on that I actually had to use a calculator to add their opponents scores from those years!
There are plenty of small schools that get pounded on a regular basis but have no where to go.
They only pull a kid or two from the other schools but yet they pull a kid or two from other schools.
Not blaming MAML or others but how do explain their size to the Bagleys of the world.
I am happy they are having success this year but you have your success then move up. That's what some are telling Hermantown.
MSHSL needs to look at what they are doing and decide on what it is they are trying to accomplish and the make rules that work.
I think some of us are 'complaining' (perhaps questioning) the system.GoldyGopher wrote:They won a quarterfinal game on their first trip to state. Not like we are dealing with a perennial powerhouse where this discussion is even necessary.elliott70 wrote:But a lot of schools can say at least some of that.StarsHockey wrote:Based on getting their teeth kicked in for 14 years in AA, based on average youth numbers, based on how many kids they are actually pulling from A-ML and finally based on that I actually had to use a calculator to add their opponents scores from those years!
There are plenty of small schools that get pounded on a regular basis but have no where to go.
They only pull a kid or two from the other schools but yet they pull a kid or two from other schools.
Not blaming MAML or others but how do explain their size to the Bagleys of the world.
I am happy they are having success this year but you have your success then move up. That's what some are telling Hermantown.
MSHSL needs to look at what they are doing and decide on what it is they are trying to accomplish and the make rules that work.
If they are told they have to move up, what's to stop them from just dumping the co-op and staying at A? Most of the players are from Monticello anyways. I can guarantee LDC isn't taking on the numbers and moving to AA.. Where would you like these kids to play then? I suppose Buffalo is an option but I believe they have quite a few kids in their program already. Funny no one complains about Becker/Big Lake enrollment numbers when they are beating them by 10 goals. God forbid they start winning and we have to have this conversation again.
Yes! "Dump" the co-op and do things legit without the help of Ward and the two others that are among their top 6 scorers.GoldyGopher wrote:They won a quarterfinal game on their first trip to state. Not like we are dealing with a perennial powerhouse where this discussion is even necessary.elliott70 wrote:But a lot of schools can say at least some of that.StarsHockey wrote:Based on getting their teeth kicked in for 14 years in AA, based on average youth numbers, based on how many kids they are actually pulling from A-ML and finally based on that I actually had to use a calculator to add their opponents scores from those years!
There are plenty of small schools that get pounded on a regular basis but have no where to go.
They only pull a kid or two from the other schools but yet they pull a kid or two from other schools.
Not blaming MAML or others but how do explain their size to the Bagleys of the world.
I am happy they are having success this year but you have your success then move up. That's what some are telling Hermantown.
MSHSL needs to look at what they are doing and decide on what it is they are trying to accomplish and the make rules that work.
If they are told they have to move up, what's to stop them from just dumping the co-op and staying at A? Most of the players are from Monticello anyways. I can guarantee LDC isn't taking on the numbers and moving to AA.. Where would you like these kids to play then? I suppose Buffalo is an option but I believe they have quite a few kids in their program already. Funny no one complains about Becker/Big Lake enrollment numbers when they are beating them by 10 goals. God forbid they start winning and we have to have this conversation again.
Whats stopping them? Losing there best player for one.GoldyGopher wrote:They won a quarterfinal game on their first trip to state. Not like we are dealing with a perennial powerhouse where this discussion is even necessary.elliott70 wrote:But a lot of schools can say at least some of that.StarsHockey wrote:Based on getting their teeth kicked in for 14 years in AA, based on average youth numbers, based on how many kids they are actually pulling from A-ML and finally based on that I actually had to use a calculator to add their opponents scores from those years!
There are plenty of small schools that get pounded on a regular basis but have no where to go.
They only pull a kid or two from the other schools but yet they pull a kid or two from other schools.
Not blaming MAML or others but how do explain their size to the Bagleys of the world.
I am happy they are having success this year but you have your success then move up. That's what some are telling Hermantown.
MSHSL needs to look at what they are doing and decide on what it is they are trying to accomplish and the make rules that work.
If they are told they have to move up, what's to stop them from just dumping the co-op and staying at A? Most of the players are from Monticello anyways. I can guarantee LDC isn't taking on the numbers and moving to AA.. Where would you like these kids to play then? I suppose Buffalo is an option but I believe they have quite a few kids in their program already. Funny no one complains about Becker/Big Lake enrollment numbers when they are beating them by 10 goals. God forbid they start winning and we have to have this conversation again.
