Hermantown at Greenway on 1/16

[elliott70]

I am not discrediting anything you say although we all know it is not 100% accurate.

As I have said I would like to see them AA.
As I have said elsewhere I was against the new participation rule.

But I am not on here every chance I get throwing stuff out there.

Point is Hermantown has developed a good hockey program.

Parents that put a good education AND a good hockey program as priorities put their kids in HT school and hockey if they have the opportunity.
A little e8 year old may have potential but it is their program that draws it out. Proctor did not make these guys great hockey players and then lose them to HT. Hermantown Youth Hockey is a strong program.

Strong enough for them to be AA? From where I sit 'yes'.
But I have no say in what Bemidji does let alone HT, Roseau, East Grand Forks or Mahtomedi.

[pekyman]

Yes, everyone knows you hate Hermantown.
Yes, a lot of people would like to see Hermantown play AA.
BUT, the decision making power is in the hands of a few.
You make every thread about how bad ALL of Hermantown is because they play by the rules. You attack the kids for cryin' out loud.
We know, we knew before your rants, that Hermantown has certain advantages.

In Bemidji the kids chant we hate Moorhead. Well they put a good product on the ice (field - court). We know they have more resources then we do and yet when they move on from sections (we still 'hate' them) but we still cheer for them.

Give it a rest. You are getting old.

I don't hate Hermantown, I have many friends who live there. Where do you think I get all of my information? Show me where I have ever attacked a kid from anywhere. I didn't make this thread about Hermantown, someone else brought up Hermantown. Go back and read it again.

Saying I hate Hermantown is an effort to discredit the messenger and not that facts. It's a common cop-out from the debate because you took what I said personally. Never a good idea to make debates personal, accomplishes nothing. Focus on the facts and point out anything I said above that isn't true if you wish. Or you could just say you're done debating and I would respect that. I'll leave this thread to others now.

"friends" in hermantown Tell them you are "jeffy" and see what happens.

[east hockey]

Once Hermantown goes to AA it will not propel these two teams to state.
Its more about economics and resources.

Maybe not, but it would have propelled Greenway to State last year and this year. A true Single A Program with 20 total Bantam Skaters that had a great group come through the cycle. That's what the A tournament was created for.

Yes, it's about Economics. Hermantown pulled in over $1.3 Million in Per Pupil State Aid from open-enrollment last year. Hockey is their biggest draw. They probably won't risk that by giving up the Automatic bid to State. Don't see them going AA.

MSHSL tried to 'fix' this with Tier 1 and 2. No one wants a tourney where it is just the bad teams. What MSHSL needs to do is find a system that correlates the supporting youth program to the high school program. And that is not going to happen.

Greenway and Hibbing both had top 5 Single A teams in the last 4 years. Hardly bad teams.

Do not drink the Kool-Aid.

Yes, everyone knows you hate Hermantown.
Yes, a lot of people would like to see Hermantown play AA.
BUT, the decision making power is in the hands of a few.
You make every thread about how bad ALL of Hermantown is because they play by the rules. You attack the kids for cryin' out loud.
We know, we knew before your rants, that Hermantown has certain advantages.

In Bemidji the kids chant we hate Moorhead. Well they put a good product on the ice (field - court). We know they have more resources then we do and yet when they move on from sections (we still 'hate' them) but we still cheer for them.

Give it a rest. You are getting old.

Jeffy,, Elliott has some sound advice. You don't need to bring your anti-Hermantown bias (and yes, it is bias, regardless of how you protest against this label) into every single freaking Hermantown thread.

Knock it off.

Lee

[Jeffy95]

Yes, everyone knows you hate Hermantown.
Yes, a lot of people would like to see Hermantown play AA.
BUT, the decision making power is in the hands of a few.
You make every thread about how bad ALL of Hermantown is because they play by the rules. You attack the kids for cryin' out loud.
We know, we knew before your rants, that Hermantown has certain advantages.

In Bemidji the kids chant we hate Moorhead. Well they put a good product on the ice (field - court). We know they have more resources then we do and yet when they move on from sections (we still 'hate' them) but we still cheer for them.

Give it a rest. You are getting old.

Jeffy,, Elliott has some sound advice. You don't need to bring your anti-Hermantown bias (and yes, it is bias, regardless of how you protest against this label) into every single freaking Hermantown thread.

Knock it off.

Lee

Bias? Yes. Hate? No. I protested the Hate label, not Bias. Very biased in that I would love to see another 7AA team in the North and see some other 7A teams build towards that. Who wouldn't?

[greenwayraider]

Jeffy95 adds a lot to this board. I’ve been participating on this board since it’s inception and have seen many good members quit participating or greatly reduce their participation. The fact that some are tired of hearing about what Hermantown does or should do I have one piece of advice: quit reading those posts. It’s your board Lee so you certainly have the right to ban participants and lock subjects but censorship is not always the best option. On more than one occasion I’ve felt your locking of a topic was a little severe. I’ve felt that Jeffy95 postings haven’t been anymore outrageous than other posters who are passionate about something. As long as postings are true, respectful and good for an occasional laugh they are good posts. Let’s enjoy this board and not take things so seriously.

[Jeffy95]

Jeffy95 adds a lot to this board. I’ve been participating on this board since it’s inception and have seen many good members quit participating or greatly reduce their participation. The fact that some are tired of hearing about what Hermantown does or should do I have one piece of advice: quit reading those posts. It’s your board Lee so you certainly have the right to ban participants and lock subjects but censorship is not always the best option. On more than one occasion I’ve felt your locking of a topic was a little severe. I’ve felt that Jeffy95 postings haven’t been anymore outrageous than other posters who are passionate about something. As long as postings are true, respectful and good for an occasional laugh they are good posts. Let’s enjoy this board and not take things so seriously.

Thanks Green. I was thinking the same thing after reading Lee's last post. I went and re-read the Forum rules today and I've never violated any of them. I've never used profanity or called anyone names, even in the face of being attacked many times myself. I'm a free thinker and I call things the way I see them. I've never done well as a sheep. But like you said, it's Lee's board so if that's what he's looking for then I don't have much choice but to bow out. I'll be cheering the Raiders on this year, Good Luck Bro!

[rainier2]

Jeffy95 adds a lot to this board. I’ve been participating on this board since it’s inception and have seen many good members quit participating or greatly reduce their participation. The fact that some are tired of hearing about what Hermantown does or should do I have one piece of advice: quit reading those posts. It’s your board Lee so you certainly have the right to ban participants and lock subjects but censorship is not always the best option. On more than one occasion I’ve felt your locking of a topic was a little severe. I’ve felt that Jeffy95 postings haven’t been anymore outrageous than other posters who are passionate about something. As long as postings are true, respectful and good for an occasional laugh they are good posts. Let’s enjoy this board and not take things so seriously.

Thanks Green. I was thinking the same thing after reading Lee's last post. I went and re-read the Forum rules today and I've never violated any of them. I've never used profanity or called anyone names, even in the face of being attacked many times myself. I'm a free thinker and I call things the way I see them. I've never done well as a sheep. But like you said, it's Lee's board so if that's what he's looking for then I don't have much choice but to bow out. I'll be cheering the Raiders on this year, Good Luck Bro!

I know its shocking, but I agree with Greenie and Jeffy. I get that threads are sometimes locked because they get repetitive within the thread, so it makes sense that those should be shut down. However, I take issue with threads being locked because peky starts cursing or becomes abusive without offering any rebuttal in the form of facts or sources. He knows he can lock a thread by getting overly hostile, and he employs it regularly.

I can't vouch for the veracity of all of Jeffys claims, but most of his information is specific and topical, which is much more than can be said about those who refute him.

My main reason for being a part of the Anti-Hermantown League (AHL), is to make sure the following false narrative doesn’t spread: "We are a small-town hockey program who is so good we can take 600 students and turn them into hockey gold, and since you can't, your program is terrible." I don’t want it to fool anyone else the way it once fooled me in the STA days. The best way to drain its power is to present facts such as playing AA in youth levels, frequent open enrollment and transfers, a AA heavy HS schedule, recruiting at the youth levels, etc., which are all facts that can be verified. I've seen a sea change on this board concerning people’s attitudes toward Hermantown now that these truths have been repeated and emphasized. This feeling has filtered throughout the state, and there are few, if any, Hermantown fans left who aren’t alumni or residents.

I wholeheartedly agree that the kids should never, ever be the target of any vitriol, and I have seen little to none of that, which is great. But, the former coach deserved all the derision that came his way considering he was the outspoken president of the Anti-St. Thomas Academy League (ASTAL), and the current AD deserves just as much derision for denying the players a chance to play against teams as good as they are, all because the guaranteed trip to state is just too delicious to put down.

My wish is that the moderators would let these debates proceed, so that, for example, when someone claims there is no recruiting at the youth levels in Hermantown, someone else can post the location of the publicly available information that shows the Herm youth association addressing it as a problem in one of their own meetings. I don’t think this should be censored and perhaps the moderators can just remove the angry, add-nothing rebuttals that are sure to follow.

[east hockey]

Jeffy95 adds a lot to this board. I’ve been participating on this board since it’s inception and have seen many good members quit participating or greatly reduce their participation. The fact that some are tired of hearing about what Hermantown does or should do I have one piece of advice: quit reading those posts. It’s your board Lee so you certainly have the right to ban participants and lock subjects but censorship is not always the best option. On more than one occasion I’ve felt your locking of a topic was a little severe. I’ve felt that Jeffy95 postings haven’t been anymore outrageous than other posters who are passionate about something. As long as postings are true, respectful and good for an occasional laugh they are good posts. Let’s enjoy this board and not take things so seriously.

Thanks Green. I was thinking the same thing after reading Lee's last post. I went and re-read the Forum rules today and I've never violated any of them. I've never used profanity or called anyone names, even in the face of being attacked many times myself. I'm a free thinker and I call things the way I see them. I've never done well as a sheep. But like you said, it's Lee's board so if that's what he's looking for then I don't have much choice but to bow out. I'll be cheering the Raiders on this year, Good Luck Bro!

I know its shocking, but I agree with Greenie and Jeffy. I get that threads are sometimes locked because they get repetitive within the thread, so it makes sense that those should be shut down. However, I take issue with threads being locked because peky starts cursing or becomes abusive without offering any rebuttal in the form of facts or sources. He knows he can lock a thread by getting overly hostile, and he employs it regularly.

I can't vouch for the veracity of all of Jeffys claims, but most of his information is specific and topical, which is much more than can be said about those who refute him.

My main reason for being a part of the Anti-Hermantown League (AHL), is to make sure the following false narrative doesn’t spread: "We are a small-town hockey program who is so good we can take 600 students and turn them into hockey gold, and since you can't, your program is terrible." I don’t want it to fool anyone else the way it once fooled me in the STA days. The best way to drain its power is to present facts such as playing AA in youth levels, frequent open enrollment and transfers, a AA heavy HS schedule, recruiting at the youth levels, etc., which are all facts that can be verified. I've seen a sea change on this board concerning people’s attitudes toward Hermantown now that these truths have been repeated and emphasized. This feeling has filtered throughout the state, and there are few, if any, Hermantown fans left who aren’t alumni or residents.

I wholeheartedly agree that the kids should never, ever be the target of any vitriol, and I have seen little to none of that, which is great. But, the former coach deserved all the derision that came his way considering he was the outspoken president of the Anti-St. Thomas Academy League (ASTAL), and the current AD deserves just as much derision for denying the players a chance to play against teams as good as they are, all because the guaranteed trip to state is just too delicious to put down.

My wish is that the moderators would let these debates proceed, so that, for example, when someone claims there is no recruiting at the youth levels in Hermantown, someone else can post the location of the publicly available information that shows the Herm youth association addressing it as a problem in one of their own meetings. I don’t think this should be censored and perhaps the moderators can just remove the angry, add-nothing rebuttals that are sure to follow.

I don't have any problem with the Hermantown A vs AA debate. What I have a problem with is that it gets dragged into nearly every single thread which has to do with Hermantown (and a ton which don't). The signal-to-noise ratio gets too high and threads get hijacked/ruined. Anyone who has spent more than five minutes here knows where Jeffy and Peky stand. Neither position will change, and it is nearly as likely that others' opinions won't change based on what these two espouse. I haven't seen a contentious relationship like theirs since TomAss vs BogeyMan back in the "way back" days. It's preferable to not deal with this clash like theirs was dealt with, but given no other option...

Maybe the answer lies on doing something similar to what we did in the "Bash Private Schools thread". Set up a Jeffy vs Peky thread and let them beat themselves bloody there. Maybe??

To address what a couple have stated--it's not my Forum. It's Mitch Haskwer's Karl and I are simply admins. While Mitch spent a lot of time here in the early days, partly out of necessity, he has left running this to Karl and I, for the most part. I'm on Twitter far more these days than here but I still keep an eye on things, and receive information via the private message function on this Board. I wouldn't want it to be my Forum. I don't need the headache. Twitter is much easier and much better for getting scores on a daily basis.

And FWIW, I'm about as far from being a Hermantown fan as one can find, for obvious reasons.

I someone wants to have a convo on Twitter, I'm easy to find. A few already have, including one troll who thought, for some stupid reason, that there was benefit to following me there. (Gotta love that mute/block feature)

Lee

Lee

[kniven]

Hermantown isn’t breaking any rules and players from all over northern Minnesota want to play for them. I wish CEC had such a problem. I support their kids and program. I might not agree with the entire A thing but agreeing to disagree is a win/win in my book.

[rainier2]

Thanks Green. I was thinking the same thing after reading Lee's last post. I went and re-read the Forum rules today and I've never violated any of them. I've never used profanity or called anyone names, even in the face of being attacked many times myself. I'm a free thinker and I call things the way I see them. I've never done well as a sheep. But like you said, it's Lee's board so if that's what he's looking for then I don't have much choice but to bow out. I'll be cheering the Raiders on this year, Good Luck Bro!

I know its shocking, but I agree with Greenie and Jeffy. I get that threads are sometimes locked because they get repetitive within the thread, so it makes sense that those should be shut down. However, I take issue with threads being locked because peky starts cursing or becomes abusive without offering any rebuttal in the form of facts or sources. He knows he can lock a thread by getting overly hostile, and he employs it regularly.

I can't vouch for the veracity of all of Jeffys claims, but most of his information is specific and topical, which is much more than can be said about those who refute him.

My main reason for being a part of the Anti-Hermantown League (AHL), is to make sure the following false narrative doesn’t spread: "We are a small-town hockey program who is so good we can take 600 students and turn them into hockey gold, and since you can't, your program is terrible." I don’t want it to fool anyone else the way it once fooled me in the STA days. The best way to drain its power is to present facts such as playing AA in youth levels, frequent open enrollment and transfers, a AA heavy HS schedule, recruiting at the youth levels, etc., which are all facts that can be verified. I've seen a sea change on this board concerning people’s attitudes toward Hermantown now that these truths have been repeated and emphasized. This feeling has filtered throughout the state, and there are few, if any, Hermantown fans left who aren’t alumni or residents.

I wholeheartedly agree that the kids should never, ever be the target of any vitriol, and I have seen little to none of that, which is great. But, the former coach deserved all the derision that came his way considering he was the outspoken president of the Anti-St. Thomas Academy League (ASTAL), and the current AD deserves just as much derision for denying the players a chance to play against teams as good as they are, all because the guaranteed trip to state is just too delicious to put down.

My wish is that the moderators would let these debates proceed, so that, for example, when someone claims there is no recruiting at the youth levels in Hermantown, someone else can post the location of the publicly available information that shows the Herm youth association addressing it as a problem in one of their own meetings. I don’t think this should be censored and perhaps the moderators can just remove the angry, add-nothing rebuttals that are sure to follow.

I don't have any problem with the Hermantown A vs AA debate. What I have a problem with is that it gets dragged into nearly every single thread which has to do with Hermantown (and a ton which don't). The signal-to-noise ratio gets too high and threads get hijacked/ruined. Anyone who has spent more than five minutes here knows where Jeffy and Peky stand. Neither position will change, and it is nearly as likely that others' opinions won't change based on what these two espouse. I haven't seen a contentious relationship like theirs since TomAss vs BogeyMan back in the "way back" days. It's preferable to not deal with this clash like theirs was dealt with, but given no other option...

Maybe the answer lies on doing something similar to what we did in the "Bash Private Schools thread". Set up a Jeffy vs Peky thread and let them beat themselves bloody there. Maybe??

To address what a couple have stated--it's not my Forum. It's Mitch Haskwer's Karl and I are simply admins. While Mitch spent a lot of time here in the early days, partly out of necessity, he has left running this to Karl and I, for the most part. I'm on Twitter far more these days than here but I still keep an eye on things, and receive information via the private message function on this Board. I wouldn't want it to be my Forum. I don't need the headache. Twitter is much easier and much better for getting scores on a daily basis.

And FWIW, I'm about as far from being a Hermantown fan as one can find, for obvious reasons.

I someone wants to have a convo on Twitter, I'm easy to find. A few already have, including one troll who thought, for some stupid reason, that there was benefit to following me there. (Gotta love that mute/block feature)

Lee

Lee

I love this idea. The debate can be re-hashed, ad nauseum, but in a contained space. This would allow newbies to get the scoop and any veterans burned out on it will know to avoid it. It would be great if any overly hostile posts were just deleted on a one-by-one basis, so the thread could continue on.

I'm all for it and I would keep my Hermantown posts confined to it.

[kniven]

Excellent idea! I’ll second the motion.....

[karl(east)]

The thread is live: http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36208

Any further posts on Class A status/open enrollment in this thread will be nuked.