The Hermantown Thread

[hockey59]

St. Cloud is 60 miles from the 3.6 million Mpls/St Paul metro area I forgot to include that.
Hermantown doesn't have anything that any other school does not also have.

I think those people are more likely to choose a private Catholic in their own backyard than commute 60 miles, don't you?

On the contrary, they sure do have something nobody else has. (Which has been pointed out 100 times on here by the way) They can offer AA Hockey throughout all of youth and the High School regular season and then an auto trip to play on TV at the X after they drop a class for the last two weeks of the season. I'd say that's a pretty attractive package, but what do I know?

Nobody is stopping any other team from doing the exact same thing.
It is an attractive package that Hermantown built.
By the way, I think it is time for HT to move on, I just don't buy into all the BS posted on here.

Everybody will be happy to move on when Hermantown mans up and opts up to AA. Until that happens, expect a sh-t storm of criticism that makes the crap STA took (prior to moving up) look mild in comparison.

[Slap Shot]

Here it is folks, this comment is a perfect example of why Scott Pionk is a lone voice in the Hermantown hockey wilderness. They truly do believe they are small-town, community hockey, and that being a suburb in an urban area of 120,000 (metro area of 270,000) has absolutely no effect on the success of their program. As Bigfoot pointed out, they only had a paltry 34 players try out this year, but somehow, some way, the magic of Hermantown hockey was able to turn this small handful of hyper-local kids into a top AA-level team. Open-enrollment and transfers have nothing to do with it. Those top players over the years from Hibbing, Proctor, Virginia, Ely, Hayward, Colorado, and Duluth sacrificed everything to move to the isolated hamlet of Hermantown, where they arrived as teenagers who barely know how to skate, yet leave as NHL draft picks after the Hermantown magic is bestowed upon them.

This comment is why Coach Andrews can't move his team to AA. The AD and parents live in this fantasy land where all the many doctors who live in Hermantown obviously work in downtown Hermantown at Hermantown General Hospital, and the many former D1 players involved in the program all played at The University of Minnesota-Hermantown. The metropolitan area of Duluth has had nothing to do with their success. It doesn't matter that it is a million times easier for a player to switch schools or a family to relocate to a large city than it is in a rural community. They truly believe Hermantown has no advantage over TRF or I-Falls, for example, and the "crappy programs" at these rural schools are the sole reason they can't compete with the Hawks.

And in the same breath they will whine about STA or Breck. "They have so many players to choose from, so their enrollment doesn't matter and it's not fair to a small community program like Hermantown." It is amazing the blind spots people are able to maintain in the name of protecting their cherished beliefs.

(Note: for those unfamiliar with the Twin Ports, there is no downtown Hermantown, no Hermantown General Hospital, and certainly no University of Minnesota-Hermantown. Hermantown is a bedroom community that would not exist if not for being attached to Duluth.)

Dude, you really need a Snickers bar.

There is no Denfeld, Marshall or Proctor that has access to this huge metro area either.

Hermantown is successful because they have an excellent Hockey program and the highest % of boys that play hockey in the state. 1 Hermantown grade has about 75 boys of which 22 play hockey at the Bantam level which is 30%.

How many of those were transfers?

[pekyman]

Dude, you really need a Snickers bar.

There is no Denfeld, Marshall or Proctor that has access to this huge metro area either.

Hermantown is successful because they have an excellent Hockey program and the highest % of boys that play hockey in the state. 1 Hermantown grade has about 75 boys of which 22 play hockey at the Bantam level which is 30%.

How many of those were transfers?

Zero

[Slapper Al]

We need to stop this small town northern Minnesota narrative about Hermantown. It is a wealthy suberb of Duluth hence the hockey numbers.

https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city ... hermantown

Take a look at the demographic data and it will tell you all you need to know about why hockey is growing there vs the surrounding communities. Healthy numbers and money to support it. No wonder why the want to stay in A. Have money to make that trip down to the cities each year.

[Slap Shot]

There is no Denfeld, Marshall or Proctor that has access to this huge metro area either.

Hermantown is successful because they have an excellent Hockey program and the highest % of boys that play hockey in the state. 1 Hermantown grade has about 75 boys of which 22 play hockey at the Bantam level which is 30%.

How many of those were transfers?

Zero

Because they're already playing varsity?

[elliott70]

There are no players on the varsity team that do not live with their family in Hermantown.
One player moved in when he was in bantams, one player moved in when he was in peewees.
Everyone else has been there since mites (maybe one from first year squirts).

[Jeffy95]

Dude, you really need a Snickers bar.

There is no Denfeld, Marshall or Proctor that has access to this huge metro area either.

Hermantown is successful because they have an excellent Hockey program and the highest % of boys that play hockey in the state. 1 Hermantown grade has about 75 boys of which 22 play hockey at the Bantam level which is 30%.

How many of those were transfers?

No idea how many total as I'm not very familiar with that age group, but I do know personally:

3 on the AA team, including their top player and a very good goalie
2 on the A team
3 on the B team

Much lower than any group in recent memory at Hermantown. Net Presence reported that over 50% of last year's High School team were transfers. I don't know who he is, but he's obviously in the know. You can check out his post's very early on in this thread.

[Jeffy95]

There are no players on the varsity team that do not live with their family in Hermantown.
One player moved in when he was in bantams, one player moved in when he was in peewees.
Everyone else has been there since mites (maybe one from first year squirts).

Where did you get that info? #28 has never lived in Hermantown to my knowledge. #37 and #12 must have moved at some point if they live there now. Regardless, it's irrelevant in my opinion. If a kid transfers there specifically for Hockey, what does it matter if it's by move or open-enrollment? Some of their players were too far away to open enroll obviously.

[Jeffy95]

Oops, I guess it was Scott Pionk and not Net Presence who told the Hermantown Administration that it was 11 out of 20 transfers on that State Championship team. Part of his concern that other programs are dying off by losing players. I had forgotten that.

It's important to constantly reinforce one fact in this debate.

Last year's State Champion roster had 11 of 20 kids that came from other Associations. Sorry, but If you stay in Class A under those circumstances, you deserve all of the Public Shame that you get.

Yes, you've constantly stated these "facts" for as long as I've read the board.

For the bolded, please enlighten everyone and list out the 11 kids on last year's team and provide the school that they should've played for.

I'll even provide the roster for you to make it easier:

1. Austin Hess
2. Matt Valure
3. Trent Madill
4. Jacob Herter
5. Jesse Jacques
6. Brady Baker
7. Dawson Pietrusa
8. Ryan Sandelin
9. Dylan Samberg
10. Parker Simmons
11. Darian Gotz
12. Logan Judnick
13. Ben Siljendahl
14. Tyler Watkins*
15. Dylan Kolquist
16. Sam High
17. Elliott Peterson
18. Wyatt Sonneson
19. Brandon Schmidt
20. Jake Hausmann
21. Justin Thomas
22. Sam Scott
23. Nolan Halverson
24. Cade McEwen

*I really hope you include Tyler Watkins who moved to Hermantown from Colorado in the 5th grade.

First, I'm pretty sure I could name at least 7 or 8 of those kids from that roster but, I won't do so without being 100% sure beforehand. Still, I've known Scott Pionk for over 30 years and we're friends who've both been very fortunate to have experienced this game at almost every level and in almost every position imaginable. So, if he says 11 of those names are either tranfers who moved in after 9th grade or are from families who moved in prior to 9th grade but after they started playing youth hockey somewhere else, or simply open enrollees at the youth level who's families still live outside the Hermantown school district, then I'm confident he knows what he's talking about.

And yes, I do count Tyler as one of those 11 as he didn't start his youth playing career in Hermantown as a Mite 1. Did he "transfer" in the "honorable way" by having his parents actually move into the Hermantown school district? Absolutely. But, the point is, Hermantown gained a very talented player that didn't begin his youth "career" in Hermantown. In fact, as I've stated previously, even if a player does start his youth career as a first year Mite at Hermantown, if he had to open enroll to Hermantown due to living in a different school district, he or she still counts as a "transfer" as that player would otherwise have played for whichever high school is in the district his family resides in. Do I look at a player who open enrolls at kindergarten and starts playing in the Hermantown youth system his first year of organized hockey slightly differently than that of a player that transfers in as 3rd grader or older? Sure, because at least that decision was made at the outset versus after having played with their "friends" for 2 to 5 years in their original association that they live in and then open enrolling after their kid seems to be an above average player.

I even know of one Duluth player (currently still in Hermantown youth) whose parents open enrolled him in Hermantown school but kept ihim in his Duluth youth hockey association his first year in order to get around the Minnesota Hockey rule that prevents you from playing on the highest level team offered the first year you open enroll -- in this case Hermantown Squirt A versus Duluth's Squirt B. In fact, from what I've been told, almost half of this year's Hermantown Squirt "A" players did not start playing at Hermantown. Let me again reiterate that I truly belive the vast majority of Hermantown hockey leadership to be honorable people who care deeply about their kids and want to develop all of the players in their organization to the greatest degree possible. Many of them are my friends. However, that doesn't mean that when it comes to this specific issue, they might not be at least occasionaly affected by the glare of the Excel Energy Center lights...

I'll say again, if Minnesota Hockey can be convinced to return to "play where you live" and not "play where you live OR go to school" AND, we can convince the MSHSL to limit class "A" schools from playing "AA" schools outside of conference opponents or holiday tourneys, Hermantown would either choose to move up very quickly or, within a few years the out of district talent pool would regress to the point that no one would be arguing they should move up.

[hockey59]

This entire thread & 29 pages of posts would be moot if the Hermantown school administrators would simply get their collective heads out of their arses and give STARS like Joey Pierce & Blake Biondi the opportunity to compete against the VERY BEST. Case closed! PS: I’m totally bored with this thread and the obtuse arguments Hermantown still belongs in single a

[northwoods oldtimer]

This entire thread & 29 pages of posts would be moot if the Hermantown school administrators would simply get their collective heads out of their arses and give STARS like Joey Pierce & Blake Biondi the opportunity to compete against the VERY BEST. Case closed! PS: I’m totally bored with this thread and the obtuse arguments Hermantown still belongs in single a

AMEN!!

[east hockey]

This entire thread & 29 pages of posts would be moot if the Hermantown school administrators would simply get their collective heads out of their arses and give STARS like Joey Pierce & Blake Biondi the opportunity to compete against the VERY BEST. Case closed! PS: I’m totally bored with this thread and the obtuse arguments Hermantown still belongs in single a

I would prefer it to be contained here rather than spread out amongst thirty other threads.

Lee

[northwoods oldtimer]

This entire thread & 29 pages of posts would be moot if the Hermantown school administrators would simply get their collective heads out of their arses and give STARS like Joey Pierce & Blake Biondi the opportunity to compete against the VERY BEST. Case closed! PS: I’m totally bored with this thread and the obtuse arguments Hermantown still belongs in single a

I would prefer it to be contained here rather than spread out amongst thirty other threads.

Lee

Agree Lee, keep it confined to the thread!

[Immigrant Fan]

I agree, it is a pointless debate, particularly here. H-town will do what it thinks is in its self-interest. Nothing unique about that. However, the way other programs and fans react is entirely a different story.

First, given how section seeding is handled now, I can't imagine why GR (or any other 7AA program) schedules H-town, much less twice in one season. The self-interest of GR would appear to benefit from scheduling other 7AA teams, such as St. Francis and C-I, or a second game every year with Elk River (Edina Classic and alternate home-away for the second game). If AA teams, including beyond section 7, stop scheduling H-town, that will put a crimp in their approach. It appears DLH-East has it right.

Second, is anyone else losing interest in the A tournament every year? Yes, Alexandria made it better last year, but that seems scant reward for the annual beatdown H-town typically applies in the quarterfinals and semifinals other years. Rather than spending money to see 1/2 a session, it is making more and more sense for me to watch the competitive game in the H-town session on TV, and then skip the H-town game completely - in person and TV.

Take away H-town's marquis match-ups with AA powers; start to diminish the revenue for MSHSL from the A tournament. Then see what works for H-town.

[grindiangrad-80]

I agree, it is a pointless debate, particularly here. H-town will do what it thinks is in its self-interest. Nothing unique about that. However, the way other programs and fans react is entirely a different story.

First, given how section seeding is handled now, I can't imagine why GR (or any other 7AA program) schedules H-town, much less twice in one season. The self-interest of GR would appear to benefit from scheduling other 7AA teams, such as St. Francis and C-I, or a second game every year with Elk River (Edina Classic and alternate home-away for the second game). If AA teams, including beyond section 7, stop scheduling H-town, that will put a crimp in their approach. It appears DLH-East has it right.

Second, is anyone else losing interest in the A tournament every year? Yes, Alexandria made it better last year, but that seems scant reward for the annual beatdown H-town typically applies in the quarterfinals and semifinals other years. Rather than spending money to see 1/2 a session, it is making more and more sense for me to watch the competitive game in the H-town session on TV, and then skip the H-town game completely - in person and TV.

Take away H-town's marquis match-ups with AA powers; start to diminish the revenue for MSHSL from the A tournament. Then see what works for H-town.

I understand the argument but I don't think scheduling St. Francis and Cambridge instead of twice vs Hermantown would be better for Rapids.

[grindiangrad-80]

I understand the pain of watching a team like Hermantown rolling through A every year. St. Thomas did it before them.

But is it much different than Eveleth killing everyone in the 50's and I Falls and Greenway in the 60's and Edina and Rapids in the 70's and Jefferson and Burnsville in the 80's and etc... ?

[grindiangrad-80]

The reason I made this comment is because I don't think our younger crowd realizes what the teams in the 50's and 60's and 70's and 80's had to deal with when only a few teams would end end up winning every year. It's really nothing new.

[grindiangrad-80]

I didn't mention Roseau or Hill Murray or Duluth East - more of the perennial powers.

[Jeffy95]

I agree, it is a pointless debate, particularly here. H-town will do what it thinks is in its self-interest. Nothing unique about that. However, the way other programs and fans react is entirely a different story.

First, given how section seeding is handled now, I can't imagine why GR (or any other 7AA program) schedules H-town, much less twice in one season. The self-interest of GR would appear to benefit from scheduling other 7AA teams, such as St. Francis and C-I, or a second game every year with Elk River (Edina Classic and alternate home-away for the second game). If AA teams, including beyond section 7, stop scheduling H-town, that will put a crimp in their approach. It appears DLH-East has it right.

Second, is anyone else losing interest in the A tournament every year? Yes, Alexandria made it better last year, but that seems scant reward for the annual beatdown H-town typically applies in the quarterfinals and semifinals other years. Rather than spending money to see 1/2 a session, it is making more and more sense for me to watch the competitive game in the H-town session on TV, and then skip the H-town game completely - in person and TV.

Take away H-town's marquis match-ups with AA powers; start to diminish the revenue for MSHSL from the A tournament. Then see what works for H-town.

Yes sir, you have figured it out. QRF will punish Rapids for playing Hermantown, especially twice. Even if you win, no boost. Lose, you will be hit very hard. The Rapids die hards will say, "We don't care, bring on the Chicken Hawk Sandbaggers." That's why we love Rapids. It might not matter much this year. But when your're fighting between a 1 and a 2, or a 3 and a 4, it may come into play at some point....

[grindiangrad-80]

I agree, it is a pointless debate, particularly here. H-town will do what it thinks is in its self-interest. Nothing unique about that. However, the way other programs and fans react is entirely a different story.

First, given how section seeding is handled now, I can't imagine why GR (or any other 7AA program) schedules H-town, much less twice in one season. The self-interest of GR would appear to benefit from scheduling other 7AA teams, such as St. Francis and C-I, or a second game every year with Elk River (Edina Classic and alternate home-away for the second game). If AA teams, including beyond section 7, stop scheduling H-town, that will put a crimp in their approach. It appears DLH-East has it right.

Second, is anyone else losing interest in the A tournament every year? Yes, Alexandria made it better last year, but that seems scant reward for the annual beatdown H-town typically applies in the quarterfinals and semifinals other years. Rather than spending money to see 1/2 a session, it is making more and more sense for me to watch the competitive game in the H-town session on TV, and then skip the H-town game completely - in person and TV.

Take away H-town's marquis match-ups with AA powers; start to diminish the revenue for MSHSL from the A tournament. Then see what works for H-town.

Yes sir, you have figured it out. QRF will punish Rapids for playing Hermantown, especially twice. Even if you win, no boost. Lose, you will be hit very hard. The Rapids die hards will say, "We don't care, bring on the Chicken Hawk Sandbaggers." That's why we love Rapids. It might not matter much this year. But when your're fighting between a 1 and a 2, or a 3 and a 4, it may come into play at some point....

The 4 seed worked out okay last time. I'll take it. Seeding don't mean squat. If you are good enough you will get there. If not...

[Jeffy95]

/

[northwoods oldtimer]

I agree, it is a pointless debate, particularly here. H-town will do what it thinks is in its self-interest. Nothing unique about that. However, the way other programs and fans react is entirely a different story.

First, given how section seeding is handled now, I can't imagine why GR (or any other 7AA program) schedules H-town, much less twice in one season. The self-interest of GR would appear to benefit from scheduling other 7AA teams, such as St. Francis and C-I, or a second game every year with Elk River (Edina Classic and alternate home-away for the second game). If AA teams, including beyond section 7, stop scheduling H-town, that will put a crimp in their approach. It appears DLH-East has it right.

Second, is anyone else losing interest in the A tournament every year? Yes, Alexandria made it better last year, but that seems scant reward for the annual beatdown H-town typically applies in the quarterfinals and semifinals other years. Rather than spending money to see 1/2 a session, it is making more and more sense for me to watch the competitive game in the H-town session on TV, and then skip the H-town game completely - in person and TV.

Take away H-town's marquis match-ups with AA powers; start to diminish the revenue for MSHSL from the A tournament. Then see what works for H-town.

Yes sir, you have figured it out. QRF will punish Rapids for playing Hermantown, especially twice. Even if you win, no boost. Lose, you will be hit very hard. The Rapids die hards will say, "We don't care, bring on the Chicken Hawk Sandbaggers." That's why we love Rapids. It might not matter much this year. But when your're fighting between a 1 and a 2, or a 3 and a 4, it may come into play at some point....

The 4 seed worked out okay last time. I'll take it. Seeding don't mean squat. If you are good enough you will get there. If not...

That is not an ideal position to be in on a regular basis. AA teams better served in QRF scheduling AA teams it is pretty cut and dry.

[TheHockeyDJ]

The seed doesn't matter when you have McLaughlin, Hain, and Miller. Other years having last line change can make a difference. Historically Rapids matches up against some teams better than others. I would always prefer to let Cloquet play East in the semi-finals and if you have to play East in the Final then so be it.

[pekyman]

Article on Hockey Hub:
"In the land of giants, small-school Mahtomedi celebrates its oft-overlooked achievements"
Mahtomedi a 1,100 student Class A HS in the upper-class east side Twin Cities metro area of 3.6 million.
Mahtomedi is almost double the size of Hermantown and in a much larger, wealthier community.
Hibbing/Virginia and maybe even Denfeld, if it was in 7A you would never get by it.
Just pointing out your next target after HT gets out of your way.
Class A is bigger than 7A on the depressed range.

By the way, A Class A school is determined by the size of the SCHOOL, not the wealth or size of the City/Suburb/Town that it is in.
If you don't like it talk to the MNSHSL and get it changed.

[kniven]

Article on Hockey Hub:
"In the land of giants, small-school Mahtomedi celebrates its oft-overlooked achievements"
Mahtomedi a 1,100 student Class A HS in the upper-class east side Twin Cities metro area of 3.6 million.
Mahtomedi is almost double the size of Hermantown and in a much larger, wealthier community.
Hibbing/Virginia and maybe even Denfeld, if it was in 7A you would never get by it.
Just pointing out your next target after HT gets out of your way.
Class A is bigger than 7A on the depressed range.

By the way, A Class A school is determined by the size of the SCHOOL, not the wealth or size of the City/Suburb/Town that it is in.
If you don't like it talk to the MNSHSL and get it changed.

I’m going to take Mr. Pionks word over yours there pekypuck.